Yes. Freehand remains far better than Illustrator. We have been using Freehand for the last 12 years here at Electronic Theatre Controls, Inc. I am a Product Graphic Designer and need the features and power that FHMX provides. We use Illustrator basically to export .dxf. files. I think if Adobe had a Graphic Designer who worked in Macromedia Freehand and then started using Adobe Illustrator that Adobe would finally "get it" I think they would just take FHMX and write Illustrator on the box. Designers do not like the cumbersome slow interface of Illustrator.
I can run rings around Illustrator users with FHMX. While your figuring out how to stop the guides from moving or trying to set up a custom page size, my work will be on its way to be made into a finished product.
The name - Freehand does not accurately describe what this program does.
It's simply the best Vector Graphics program for doing professional design work. I work with Engineers who use Solidworks and AutoCAD. With Freehand, Acrobat Professional and Photoshop, I am able to do award winning design work.
Can we ask Adobe to continue to support and expand Freehand?
Or can we ask them to put all of the great features Freehand has into Illustrator?
I think new designers are just given Illustrator and think that's the only program they have to choose from.
Adobe, please consider that the professional users of Freehand will continue to use it anyway. Why not please your customers?
Thank you,
John Masino
ETC Product Graphic Designer

Yes, I would love to upgrade my Freehand MX with Adobe and would like Adobe to still support the program. I have been a Freehand user since version 2 and will never stop using the program. I wish Adobe didn't kill the Pagemaker program and force users to use Indesign. Thanks.

Joe Muller
Oasis Studios

Hi guys,

First of all, it's amazing to see how much traction this topic has generated.

Secondly, all posted messages are based on good intentions, and it's sad to see that becoming a platform for some individuals to insult others.

I myself, being in the pre-press industry since 1988, have used FreeHand since its inception and owning in the past a very large pre-press house, have created for a lot multinational advertising agencies logos and die cut forms. I can count them to at least 12,000 of them.

Luckily, I do not do that for a living any more. Unluckily, I still get the odd request to supply an old file that a customer may have replaced or lost or modified beyond recognition.

Now, Adobe rightly or wrongly, bought out Macromedia not for charity purposes, but to strengthen the areas they have a gap, and vector design in NOT one of them. So Freehand being a competitive product, is bound to be put in the back burner. The gesture of reviving it is not only noble, but also desirable for all those users that have spent their livelihood with the program. Unfortunately, such decisions will only be made based of justification of why the company should spend millions of dollars to keep making changes to add features or to feed the hunger of incompatibility of every new OS we see in our doorstep.

Believe me, Adobe is reading all those forums, and like it or not, they saved a lot of money in their research of what they need to do or not do with Illustrator’s new versions. Mark my words, Illustrator’s programmers know exactly what FreeHand users are missing (you told them in this forum), and subject to their priority list, they WILL one day implement them all.

So, reviving FreeHand is something a lot of people want, but is not necessarily something we can greatly influence. What we CAN ask Adobe to do, and this is what Adobe SHOULD do is, to create a path for all those users that still use FreeHand and have thousands of files, which will allow them to convert those files accurately to Illustrator format, by keeping all the file parameters, such as: bleed, layers, styles, color palettes, etc. etc. THAT is something EVERYBODY would respect and accept, as the future is already mapped out by those who hold the bank account, and not by those idealists who dream how the world should or shouldn’t be.

I hope Adobe is REALLY reading this.

Jack,
It has been so long since I posted on this forum. Yet after using Illy 8, 10, CS2, CS3 and now CS4 in the day to day workflow I STILL do the best and most productive work in FH 11.02. Multiple pages, better drawing tools, vastly superior color specifiers and rock-solid performance make FreeHand my favorite vector program. Perhaps the best part about FreeHand not continuing in development is the lack of associated "bloat" laid into Illustrator. FreeHand runs lean and fast.
So "Yes", Adobe would get $195. - 600. from me per workstation upgrade.
Cheers,
Jeffery

If Adobe were smart, they would put the things that everybody wants from FreeHand into Illustrator.
But I would order 20 copies of a FreeHand update immediately if Adobe would just make it run properly with Leopard.
No new features, just the ability to print and create PDFs again, as under Tiger.
Despite all the talk about Illustrator being just as good, I know at least 20 graphic artists who won't move to Leopard or to a new Mac that can only run Leopard because they can't bear the thought of working with Illustrator. It's just not how they want to work.
You may say, "But they'll have to move eventually". Well, in some cases, no. They'll work with an ancient Mac and software until it all breaks, and then they'll retire.
At the moment, it's like somebody just forbid the pencil, and issued an edict that everyone in the world now needs to draw and write with a fountain pen.

AHA--HERE IT IS! why haven't I seen this topic before??? these must be my people.
yes, yes, umletmethink YES! is such a thing possible? I don't dare to believe it. the very idea makes me giddy. truth is, Freehand doesn't need new features it just needs to be maintained so it runs optimally on the latest OS, prints correctly, and generally stays tuned up. the cost of providing the upgrades would be further offset by a slowly broadening popularity. What is Adobe afraid of? They have a monopoly after all. Those of us who prefer Freehand have good reason for doing so and simply aren't going to change our minds--no matter how much bullying or ridiculing you subject us to. For me and many others, Illustrator can simply never be a fluid and creative workspace without undergoing massive changes (so much so it would no longer be recognizable as Illustrator, in short a total overhaul). It's not a question of file conversion or learning a new program (I did that and I still don't like it). I've heard the "FH is dead, get over it" line so many times now I realize: "they" will never "get it" just as "we" will never "get" Illustrator. Surely there's a psychology study in this somewhere. But I digress! Short answer: YES, I WOULD GLADLY SUPPORT, BOTH FINANCIALLY AND SPIRITUALLY, AN ONGOING EFFORT TO KEEP FREEHAND AMONG THE LIVING. was that clear enough?

It's a good question and I think the right question at this time. The choice as individuals and as a (heretofore disorganized) group of FH users is this: do I fold and use Illustrator, even if I really don't want to, or some other lesser-known app with very little saturation, or do I make an effort to save FH--is this a cause worth fighting for? It's easy to say "sure, I'd upgrade for X amount" but clearly that isn't enough, nor is any amount of waxing on an Adobe forum. My answer is, somewhat short of dedicating my life to the cause, yeah, I'd say FH is worth making an effort to keep around. I've built my livelihood on it, I enjoy using it, it works well in ways I don't think Illustrator ever will (and I simply don't enjoy working in this application).

So....what can be done? that should definitely be the next question with which to go forward. I've signed this http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/freehandmustlive?e but like this forum don't expect anything to come of it UNLESS (as the Lorax might say) it's the seed for a larger effort. Somewhere (maybe in this forum) I also came across this link http://www.enrichdesign.com/fhblog/ . I have a mind to contact him and see if any ideas come out of that. There may be other connected people such as Mr. Nack http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/ who could provide some ideas. I will take some time later to pursue this avenue but who knows...

Another question would be, what's the best outcome a diehard FH user could realistically hope for? As of now I only have a vague answer for myself, and that would be one of two things 1.) Adobe decides, out of the charity of their hearts--scratch that, out of a practical business decision, that they will begin to develop and release updates to keep FH a contemporary product 2.) Adobe donates or sells the FH code to another developer for re-release. I can't think of a third scenario and frankly neither of these seems terribly likely. But if I had to bet on one I'd go with scenario 2--but only if the company taking FH over was one that Adobe owned and therefore wouldn't threaten their monopoly. Take Corel for instance, doesn't Adobe own that? Like Mr. Gates owning 51% Apple stock, what would be the harm in having to compete against Corel? Corel has Draw and Designer but neither product comes close to FH stature and saturation.

So I think the problem has to be approached from the business angle as no amount of argument from FH users is going to make an impression on Adobe if it doesn't coincidentally happen to be symbiotic with their bottom line. And I don't think it does or certainly they would be doing (or would have done much earlier) something different with the FH they took ownership of.

I suggest we keep going for now, gather a little energy and organization, share some contact info of anyone who want to be a key player in a serious ongoing effort, and consider possible next moves (I think this thread is a dead end is what I'm saying). Form or solicit a not-for-profit open source community to try to obtain FH? Lobby existing software companies to buy FH? I don't know but I like to believe anything is possible. Other ideas?

Sorry Elvis...

Adobe does not own Corel:

In August 2003, Corel was wholly acquired by Vector Capital, a private
equity firm, for a price of $1.05 a share (slightly more than the cash
in the company).

Vector Capital still owns approximately 72% of the company.


And Microsoft does not own 51% of Apple and never even came close:

From Apple's 2003 SEC filing:

"In August 1997, the Company and Microsoft Corporation (Microsoft)
entered into patent cross license and technology agreements. In
addition, Microsoft purchased 150,000 shares of Apple Series A nonvoting
convertible preferred stock ("preferred stock") for $150 million. [If
they were voting shares, that would be about 0.04%.]These shares were
convertible by Microsoft after August 5, 2000, into shares of the
Company's common stock at a conversion price of $8.25 per share. During
2000, 74,250 shares of preferred stock were converted to 9 million
shares of the Company's common stock. During 2001, the remaining 75,750
preferred shares were converted into 9.2 million shares of the Company's
common stock."

Elvis Alien wrote:
> It's a good question and I think the right question at this time. The choice as
> individuals and as a (heretofore disorganized) group of FH users is this: do I
> fold and use Illustrator, even if I really don't want to, or some other
> lesser-known app with very little saturation, or do I make an effort to save
> FH--is this a cause worth fighting for? It's easy to say "sure, I'd upgrade for
> X amount" but clearly that isn't enough, nor is any amount of waxing on an
> Adobe forum. My answer is, somewhat short of dedicating my life to the cause,
> yeah, I'd say FH is worth making an effort to keep around. I've built my
> livelihood on it, I enjoy using it, it works well in ways I don't think
> Illustrator ever will (and I simply don't enjoy working in this application).
>
> So....what can be done? that should definitely be the next question with which
> to go forward. I've signed this
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/freehandmustlive?e but like this forum don't
> expect anything to come of it UNLESS (as the Lorax might say) it's the seed for
> a larger effort. Somewhere (maybe in this forum) I also came across this link
> http://www.enrichdesign.com/fhblog/ . I have a mind to contact him and see if
> any ideas come out of that. There may be other connected people such as Mr.
> Nack http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/ who could provide some ideas. I will take
> some time later to pursue this avenue but who knows...
>
> Another question would be, what's the best outcome a diehard FH user could
> realistically hope for? As of now I only have a vague answer for myself, and
> that would be one of two things 1.) Adobe decides, out of the charity of their
> hearts--scratch that, out of a practical business decision, that they will
> begin to develop and release updates to keep FH a contemporary product 2.)
> Adobe donates or sells the FH code to another developer for re-release. I can't
> think of a third scenario and frankly neither of these seems terribly likely.
> But if I had to bet on one I'd go with scenario 2--but only if the company
> taking FH over was one that Adobe owned and therefore wouldn't threaten their
> monopoly. Take Corel for instance, doesn't Adobe own that? Like Mr. Gates
> owning 51% Apple stock, what would be the harm in having to compete against
> Corel? Corel has Draw and Designer but neither product comes close to FH
> stature and saturation.
>
> So I think the problem has to be approached from the business angle as no
> amount of argument from FH users is going to make an impression on Adobe if it
> doesn't coincidentally happen to be symbiotic with their bottom line. And I
> don't think it does or certainly they would be doing (or would have done much
> earlier) something different with the FH they took ownership of.
>
> I suggest we keep going for now, gather a little energy and organization,
> share some contact info of anyone who want to be a key player in a serious
> ongoing effort, and consider possible next moves (I think this thread is a dead
> end is what I'm saying). Form or solicit a not-for-profit open source community
> to try to obtain FH? Lobby existing software companies to buy FH? I don't know
> but I like to believe anything is possible. Other ideas?
>

It's been a month since I looked at the posts here and the desire for options to the future of Freehand. To JackPNG, I know the overall responses on this thread are limited but these are the dedicated ones who live by FH. In my talks with fellow designers and friends, Freehand is used more than these forum numbers show. These are people who own FH but only use it for the odd job. I can count 5 associates/friends who own Freehand but are not voiced in this forum and, yes, they prefer it's simplicity over Illustrator. Others weren't even aware FH was still part of Adobe's lineup and like Elvis, were pleased to hear it wasn't dead. Almost all of these folks own AI too (because it was part of the Creative Suite).

Judy brings up a LOT of good reasons why Adobe would let FH wither away. That they acquired the competition is the bottom line and unless AI gets so feature-laden that Adobe considers it's position insurmountable, FH would never be let go to another developer or Open Source. To their benefit, Adobe has asked that we give feedback to making AI more acceptable to Freehand users and the core problem for me, is simplicity. It's something as simple as the pen tool being as streamlined as it is in FH. It's about the simplicity of working with lines and points in a way that doesn't require extra tools or keys. Or an interface that looks familiar and clean like FH does (I personally love the Object Panel). And, of course, familiarity with use.

After consideration, the question of "what to do to keep Freehand alive?" therefore may mean changing Illustrator into FH (as Elvis' missing 3rd option.) I believe someone in this forum once mentioned an interface option that will revert the entire AI GUI to one that Freehand users recognize... including the tools. It seems like a viable possibility since Adobe's Workspaces is already a feature in their Suite, create a Freehand Workspace, UI and Tool Set that is built in. Let AI and FH users decide which interface to use.

If I open up a Vector application and it looks, works and feels like FH, I don't care what name it's called. I sincerely believed it would have to be a 3rd party application ...but maybe not. Maybe Illustrator can become Freehand.

Yes..I will would STILL upgrade and pay MORE for AI (or CS4 Suite) -- with FreeHand MX as a 3rd party app...long as it maintains its "Freehand like" tool set. Then I would pay EVEN MORE -- if it were kept up to date, bug enhanced, etc.

YES! I would buy in a heart beat.

Adobe =
allow me to summarily disabuse you the notion Adobe cares one whit about you: they don't (just your wallet). Your opinion, while in my view entirely correct, does not happen to coincide with their prime directive of making a buck. Fascinating, these last two posts, after all that's been established in the last twenty--it's almost quaint. But it's clear to everyone, isn't it, that Adobe isn't going to honor all the hard-working vector artists who prefer FreeHand. So, shall we do something about it or not? Surely something, on the PR front or perhaps even legal, can be done to change the course of history, to take the helm from the greedy hands of these daddy warbucks of software? Is there one person paying attention to this forum who'd say "yes, it's worth fighting for: I'm with you on this"? Speak up now or forever hold your peace: FreeHand is dead--UNLESS you make your demand and make it with unwavering conviction and commitment. YOU gonna do something about it or what? Show ME why I should care, then maybe I'll do something to help you. Make no mistake, the sand is almost out of the hourglass. The time to act is NOW.

YES YES YES!

wow. I didn't know this. Well now we're getting somewhere (or are we just back to where this thread started many months ago?) Amazingly, Adobe hasn't killed this diabolical scheming--yet. I don't think it'll do to go any further with the lawyering-up talk in this environment. And after consideration it doesn't seem like a good place to organize a revolution, right under the spotlights of the prison guards (okay, I'm a little paranoid). But I don't think this is over. What's needed is a blog/forum where this community, to the extent previous posters are paying attention, and anyone new, can coalesce in a form that is capable of action. A safe haven where the what's-next question can be further explored without scrutiny and perhaps notched up. If there's any point in talking about this at all, something more than forum chatter needs to happen: there needs to be some creative, cooperative effort, some kind of outreach to FH users, and any number of other efforts.
bez@bezbiz.biz

I don't think the greater audience of Freehand users even know of this forum. I sure didn't as of a year ago. It's buried in the list of Adobe app support and one has to set up (or already have) an Adobe account to participate. Plus, as I said in my recent post, a LOT of former users I know think FH is already dead. After all, who would think to come here unless having a support issue to get solved and even that is remote.

The issue isn't a legal one, it's a public awareness issue. The last great flood of public awareness came when Adobe acquired Macromedia and the fate of FH was everywhere in forums. That's been years ago and those discussions died out as people understandably gave up. Which is also why seeing this interest again is pretty amazing.

So, if this "campaign" is to have purpose, then everyone reading this, spread the word outside of the Adobe. Participate in other design forums and blog comments. And sure, start up a Freehand site if you want, but suggest including feedback on other vector apps, Adobe's FH/AI improvements and general FH support. Don't just make it a rant site or it will die.

A little PR can go a long way letting old FH users know that something is stirring.

I appreciate your input and the reality checks--and truly have nothing against you at all (just Adobe!). I realize it's not small undertaking and what I hear you saying is, basically, don't bother trying (even though there's got to be something fraudulent in those FTC rulings, there just has to be!). Now I've been using FH for a long time too (not as long as you though) and while I haven't done anything to date for The Cause (until now, if you count my recent ramblings), I have been watching from afar and seeing how things play out. Using the politics analogy, like many voters I count myself among the silent majority. Considering the obscurity of this forum or any other previous discussions on the topic, how many more like me do you think there are? I realize it's late in the game but really, is giving up the only option?
After a 1 year hiatus while I worked on my house, I came back to the workstation and finally decided "okay, time to really master AI and make it work. I've never much liked it before but maybe that's just because it wasn't familiar. looks like the old FH is just not the way of the future". so I learned it (Illustrator) pretty well. and used it in my current project--and that's when I got mad, because I feel like I've had an inferior tool foisted on me with no real option in sight. I can say, now knowing how to use AI's FreeHand-equivalent tools, that I find it altogether abhorrent. I scanned almost all the entries to this forum topic and see my experience among FH users quite pervasive! I'm unconvinced it'll ever be an acceptable app for me. So what to do?
I realize a successful effort to surmount this challenge is no trivial thing. What's needed is a PR whiz, an outreach committee, a team of lawyers. I have none of those things. But I do believe Adobe is guilty of mass lameness and bogus in the first degree. Assimilate FH features and force migration? Sounds like something nazis would do. Okay I'm exaggerating but that's how I feel about it. We all pay hefty sums for professional grade software and this is where it all goes? Don't we get a say in the future of the software we use every day? Bogus.
So while I acknowledge that your assessment of the last 4 years is grim, insofar as the future of FH goes, I'm not quite ready to accept that anything tried so far really counts as a concerted effort. No amount of internet chatter is going to change a thing (I'm just here for fun and research...okay and to vent a little). We can all type till our fingers fall off but that isn't the real work at hand. Have you ever considered, in the last four years, that nobody was actually DOING anything about this? or were they? please, edify me if someone really tried to have an impact in a meaningful way. Seems to me, if you could just contact every licensed user of FreeHand who has a pulse and one dollar, you could raise some serious money.

Please. don´t let Freehand dissapear!!.
There´s no other program like this.
I´m a fun user since 1990 too.

Or at least let it be compatible with all the other Adobe products!

Judy is right... We need to move on, PR will not help and no one is going to pony up for the money and the amount of time to get legal... so it is like flogging a dead horse... it is just difficult to loose someone or something that you love. I could care less if they upgrade the software, I am fine with how it is, I hope that they might just entertain maintaining some type of fix so that it will continue to run down the line as operating systems change.

And by the way, if they did come out with a new Freehand I would be happy to pay $699.99 or more if I had to, why... because at this point 90% of the money that I make is related to something that I create in Freehand. I have tried migrating to Illustrator, even bought CS4, it is just mind numbing is set up to waste time and energy. I am 100% confident that if a timed creative competition existed between a Freehand designer and and IA designer that the Freehand designer would win hands down.

I'm in as well.
Transparecy Features should have a work over. Different blend modes would be appreciated.

Ric

I might have already replied to this - a long time ago - but... YESSSSSS!
I'd actually pay quite a bit to have a version of Freehand that works with the latest Mac OS. I'm still running 10.4.11 because of all the issue of upgrading and loss of functionality of Freehand. PLEASE, I'm BEGGING. Let us keep our Freehand.