Apr 1, 2009 5:08 PM
imac too bright for Eye-One Display 2 calibration device!
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Derek,
Let us know what settings you end up with on your monitor for white point and luminance. Just curious to see what works for you. Be sure you compare your monitor to prints using Accurate Custom Printer profiles, viewed preferably with 5000K lighting. If you don't have 5000K lights, look at your print under filtered daylight in the middle of a clear day (not direct sunlight).
I've been struggling with this "prints too dark" issue since last Oct. when we bought our new 24" glossy iMac. Since then I've not been able to print marketable photos at home the way they came out with the old Sony Trinitron monitor and pc. The past 6 months have been spent choosing a new computer (was iMac a mistake?), then realizing the tremendous learning curve ahead for LR2 and PSCS4, not to mention this HUGE printing problem!
I'll describe my working conditions and setup first. I'm working in the basement of a raised ranch with a north window behind the monitor (covered with dark cloth), a fluorescent shop light over my desk to the left of the monitor, and a drafting lamp with a daylight bulb above the computer desk on the right side. I calibrate and print with these same lights, usually in mid-afternoon or early evening.
Here is the process I follow using an Eye One Display 2. I set the brightness on the monitor at its lowest point, then started the calibration using these target settings: 5500K, 2.2 gamma, 120 cd/m2. Using the Advanced Mode, I skip the Contrast measurement and go to the Luminance adjustment. The final result is Color Temp 5500K, 2.2 gamma, 179 cd/m2 luminance. The luminance is still too bright, but won't go any lower.
Before we bought the iMac, Lightroom 2 and PSCS4, I used PS Elements 5 to print on the Epson R1800 printer which resulted in very accurate prints after some fiddling with the settings. Now I've read so many differing versions of the best way to calibrate and print, I'm very confused and frustrated.
The only prints I've made are jpegs which were edited in Elements, saved as psd's, and printed in CS4.
Please help me with a workflow plan from calibration right through to printing on the Epson R1800. What is the best target setting for calibration: 5500K or 6500K? What settings should be used in Photoshop CS4 to print? What settings are correct on the printer?
Also, concerning the monitor brightness: I downloaded DarkAdapted Pro software to help dim the imac below 120 cd/m2. At what stage in the process is this software used to dim the monitor? During calibration? Before? or after?
You went down from a Sony Artisan to a darned iMac screen??
If so, I'd say you're ready for therapy.
Never mind, I misread Sony Trinitron as Sony Artisan. Sorry. ![]()
Hi Cyndy (Vermont's a lovely place and I have spent a fair amount of time there).
As you are discovering, there are a lot of differing opinions on monitor calibration. After lots of testing and experimentation, I settled on 5200K, 2.2 gamma, and 90 cd/m2 on my LCD (I used the same settings in the past on CRTs too). Fortunately, I can dim my monitor to this point without external software, but I would assume you would use DarkAdapted Pro before profiling.
If you are interested in my approach, I have it fairly well documented on my website in the Color Management section. I have a few articles on color management and profiling. It's not the only approach but it works quite well and gives me an excellent monitor to print match, both for my own art work and for prepress. I'd try a few different approaches and see what works. I provide my settings and the rationale for using them. Here's the link to my site.
www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php
Click the links on the left side of the page and then choose to open or download the PDF files. Hope it is helpful.
Lou
There is an easy fix for this.
You are correct the settings on an iMac are to bright, we also use an eyeone to Calibrate all our iMacs in our design studio.
The way to correct it is to download a program called shades, here is the link http://www.charcoaldesign.co.uk/shades
This program is great, and will reduce your brightness to the correct level, so you can calibrate your iMac with the eyeone display.
Kind regards
Andre
Andre,
"Shades" was already mentioned in the Original Post from the very beginning.
I clicked on your link and found this cautionary note on the Shades page:
Note: Shades may interfere with colour calibration software, and should not be used if colour accuracy is critical.
Ooooops!
Shade is fine to use don't worry about the note.
We actually had a Colour Calibration expert come out to our studio to calibrate our iMacs and Printers. This is what he recommended for our iMacs we have never had a printer jobs go wrong with colour managerment.
Even when we outsource our print jobs the same colours as what is on our screen, we have some large cliental so our colour management must be correct, and shades does the job perfect with the mac.
Kind Regards
Andre
Andre,
Glad to hear Shades works well. I don't use a Mac or have problems with excessively high luminance on my monitors, but a friend of mine and a color management expert who I trust and respect, said Shades has worked well for him and his clients. Thanks for the info.
Lou
Thank you for the reassurance, Andre. What I find remarkable, though, is not that Shades works for you but that you are actually using iMacs successfully in professional work.
Lou,
After intensive research on the net, I decided to purchase DarkAdapted
Pro because it can be finer tuned than Shades. My problem is knowing
when and how to use it - before I calibrate or after? On our 24" imac
(glossy screen), the Eye One Display 2 calibration gets these results
using Advanced Mode & Color Presets: Color Temp -5500 K (Target &
Current), Gamma 2.2, Luminance - 120 (Target), 179.5 (Current). I
begin the calibration process with the monitor turned to the lowest
brightness setting. After calibration the prints are still dull and
slightly dark (printing through PS CS4). Should I use DarkAdaptedPro
after calibration to lower the luminance to 120 or below? Should I be
calibrating with 6000K or 6500K Color Temp Target instead of 5500K?
Our middle daughter is having surgery today for Stage IV colon cancer,
so I will be away from the computer for at least a week. As she
recuperates here at home, I'd like to find time to get the calibration
process straightened out because I haven't made a good print since we
switched from a pc to the imac last October! Your help and patience
with a beginner is greatly appreciated! This ol' grandma wants to do
something productively creative to help relieve the stress and our
finances.
Thanks!
CyndyinVT
Hi Cyndy.
Sorry to hear about your daughter. I wish her the best of success.
I haven't had a problem with bright monitors, so it is an issue I have not had to wrestle with personally. I would assume the software has a manual with suggested steps. A friend of mine (who has done this sort of thing with Shades) suggested calibrating first, then using Shades (or DarkAdapted Pro) to lower the luminance. Some monitors go rather "flat" if you lower the luminance all the way, so it may require some trial and error.
Here's what I would probably try.
1. Lower your monitor luminance before profiling, watching to see if you see any big changes as you do so. As you are lowering luminance, you could display a 21 step grayscale in Photoshop to assess what is happening. My website has a 21 step grayscale on the Color Management page, under the heading "Viewing Gallery Images". (http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php)
2. In my calibration software, I set the target settings to 5200K, 2.2 gamma, 90 cd/m2 luminance. These settings work great for me and give me an excellent monitor to print match in terms of color, luminosity and tonal distribution. Lowering the temp setting warms up the color, increasing it cools it off. I use 5000K lighting for viewing my prints.
3. If your monitor brightness is still high, then try using DarkAdpated Pro to lower the luminance to your desired target point after calibration and profiling.
4. Personally, I would download MeasureTool from the X-Rite website (part of the ProfileMaker Pro profiling package. ProfileMaker is expensive, but many of the features of MT work without a license or paying for the software.) Load it and use MT in "transmissive mode" so you can read a backlit object, like a transparancy....or a monitor.
5. Display your 21 step grayscale in Photoshop after you have done the above steps. First, if your calibration is good, you should be able to see all 21 steps in the grayscale image. If not, something is amiss. You may have to look very closely to see separation between the two darkest steps, but you should be able to see it. Using Measuretool, read the 21 steps one by one. It will give you data for each point in "Lab" units. The L* number gives you the luminance, and the a*/b* numbers give you color component. When both a* and b* are zero, you have a dead neutral gray, and the further they stray from zero, the more color cast you have. The purpose of using MT is to provide some objective numbers to your grayscale measurements and to see if using DarkAdapted Pro is skewing your color, or just lowering luminance properly. You could even measure your 21 step grayscale before and after using Dark Adapted Pro to see what happens. You probably won't be right at zero, but you should be within about 4 or 5 units.
I hope this isn't too complicated. If the MT thing is too much, then simply display the 21 step grayscale image in Photoshop and look closely at it. If the steps look neutral and are well distributed, you are off to a good start. Then, try a normal print and see if it matches. Compare your print to a "Soft Proof" in Photoshop, using the profile of the paper and the rendering intent you used to make your print. For now, I'd print on "photo" papers, since they have wider color gamut and dynamic range, and will show less color and contrast loss than matte fine art papers. We just want to see if we are close at this point.
I have a long article on "Monitor & Printer Profiling" on my website, which you are welcome to read and download. It explains a lot of this stuff in fairly easy to understand terms.
Best of luck, on both counts.
Lou
Just to say you're not stuck for ever with your imac as you can plug a second monitor to it : its my actual setup; an imac 20 + an Eizo.
Recently I attended an Epson event for the roll out of their new line of large format printers. I will not name names but one of the speakers was a Mac Guru that I am sure you all know from his many interviews and web postings. One of the first issues he talked about was color management and monitor calibration. He stated that Mac monitors by their nature were all way too bright and in fact they could not be toned down with any of the monitor controls. His fix was to take a large sheet of neutral density filter and tape it to the front of his screen. After the laughter in the audience died down he looked at us and said "You think I am Kidding?". Sometimes even the Guru's throw in the towel and stick on a Band-Aid.
I have my iMac calibrated with an eye one, and using shades and Dark adapted, I have my colour and brightness under control.
We design a lot of posters for wide format, and brochures, business card, etc for offset print. We have never had an issue with the colour coming out wrong, as what we seen on our screens is what is been printed. For work which we use transparencies, we always do a press check.
But as I said we use iMac 24" screens and we don't have an issue with colour or brightness, our design work is always printed to what we see.
I would caution about using the program "Shades" because of two problems that I nencountered in installing Shades on a new 24" iMac.
Problem 1. Shades inteferes with many other programs, specifically Aperture and iPhoto. In fact Aperture would not start because it could no longer find the graphics card. iPhoto would display thumnails but not the large image. Other stange things also happened to the iMac
Problem 2. It is very easy to dim the display to total darkness and everything on the dispaly including the control for Shades goes black. I called Applecare and we tried to remove Shades, but it did not appear in the Applications folder I finally found a recovery procedure on the Charcoal site for both the dark screen problem and the uninstall problem, using another computer to access the website. Shades installs as a system program, nor as a application so even if you try to do a search for it, it can not be found because it gets embeddd into the OS
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I would recommendthe following applications, instead
DarkAdapted
http://www.aquiladigital.us/darkadapted/index.html
or
Brightness
http://www.splasm.com/brightnesscontrol/index.html
My preference is for DarkAdapted - once the brightness is set, do not close the application but leave it running by minimizing the application; otherwise, the brightness adjustment is cancelled
I have 24" alu glossy imac + i1 calibrator. For me best solution was downloading additional software (i1 was not sufficient): Coloreyes ofers 10 day fully functional demo ... that is enough time to make your own profile (LCD displays are not so prone to changes as CRTs are). Coloreyes lets you make a custom profile with desired luminance level (i1 does not). I have made a few for me with different luminance levels and white points ... If someone is interested in these profiles ... let me know.
Hope that helps ...
link:
www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/coloreyesdisplay.html
Heelo Keketz
Thank you for your message.
Brightness control and color calibration are actually two separate issues. Brigthness is usually controlled by adjsuting the brightness of the backlight on an LCD display and since this function is display dependent, it is usually done outside the color calibartion process, The problem with the 24" iMac is that the native brightness control does not have enough range. Using a i1 photospectrometer I measured the default(maximum) brightness of the iMac display at around 400 nits. Using the display brightness slider under System Preferences I was able to get the brightness down to about 200 nits. This level is still well above the 120 nits recommended for photo editing work and Apple Care did not have a solution.. So you are right, some third party software is needed to further adjust the brightness. After testing several free software packages I found DarkAdapted to be suitable.
Color calibration is done by remapping the input/output tables for the display and is normally independent of brightness control.. However, in principle, the maximum brightness could also be done via color calibration, but this would adversely affect the number of colors and the dynamic range of the display. Color calibration changes the output mapping tables for the display to improve color accuracy. For example, the default values at level 100 might be 100, 100, 100 for the R,G,B colors but with color calibration the values might look like 100, 90, 80 which would reduce the contributions of the green and blue components. A color calibaror may be able to reduce the display brightness by remapping the levl 100 outputs to 50, 45, 40, but this means that one would not be using the full color range available (e.g. effectively reducing the color range from say 8 bits per color to 7 bits per color).and so for most calibration devices this is not done.
Most color calibration devices do not attempt to adjust brightness and do the calibration(color mapping) with whatever the user has set the brightness level at. I have three calibration devices: a high-end i1 photospectrometer (not the same as the i1 display colorimter), a DTP 94 colorimter based system (Monaco) and a Spyder colorimeter based system) and they expect the user to manually adjust the brightness.. I have been in digital photogaphy for more than 10 years.and professionally do reasearch in digital image processing.
In any case, this problem of high display brightness is becoming a serious problem as most displays are used in high ambient light environments (offices and homes), not photo editing rooms and also consumers tend to associate quality with high brightness. This problem is compunded by the perceived need for high brightness in HDTV sets, which carries over to computer displays. Frankly, I am surprised that companies like Apple do not expicitly recognize the needs of photographers
I beg to differ on two points
- Coloreyes does address the brightness problem - to lowered my brigtness of 130 +, not as much as one would like but much more than any other solution that I know of that does not have other complications.
- sharing profiles probably will not help as the variance between monitors is often significant.
The people at coloreyes have been most helpful in responding to my questions and provided much help.
Hello,
I am not disputing that a calibration program like Color Eyes can alter the display brightness. The question really is "how does it do this?". Is it by adjusting the backlight intensity (display dependent) or by remapping the color mapping tables for a lower maximum intensity as I have suggested in the example that I gave in my earlier post.. One way to check this is to examine the profile generated to see if the values inthe profile correspond to the full color range.
I have indicated that for the three calibration programs and devices that I have, the user is expected to adjust the display brightness manually and the color calibration is done with the "as set" brightness level.. It could be that Color Eyes has a built-in list of all available dsiplaya and is able to adjust the backlight level. So, if you happened to be communicating with the people at Integrated Color perhaps you can get this question answered. I would be quite interested to find out how ColorEyes actually does alter the monitor brightness level.
From their website:
A new Apple Monitor plugin has been incorporated so the user can select a luminance target and let the software adjust the Cinema display brightness directly on the fly. In the past a user could manually adjust the monitor using a meter to target a brightness value, but now that is all done automatically.
Hope that helps - the technology baffles me; but I am concerned only with the results (while also saving up to get a mac pro and better monitor).
Hello VR,
Thanks for the information
You have answered my question, at least with respect to iMacs. I did look at the Integrated Color website It does appear that Color Eyes does have a data base of some monitors but not all.
In any case, it appears that Colour Eyes does allow adjustment of the brightness(LCD backlight) manually or via their monitor specific plug-ins prior to the actual color calibration process. Unfortunately, the software only supports colorimter devices such as the Spyder 3 and DTP-94 rather than the more precise photo spectrometers such as the iI photo spectroctrometer; otherwise I would be more interested in the software...
Hm ... interesting - I think iMac displays are just to limited for serious
color work. I have tried other ... software based solutions - like apps
which control brightness... but they interfere with calibration process - so
not much help there. But I can get decent enough results with Color-eyes
profile. I would like to see better LCD controls on iMacs, but after all it
is just a cheap all-in-one home-PC - so I tend not to be to critical. I also
use Eizo CG display on other machine. Eizo is beyond comparison ...
quality-vise, and price-vise.
thank you for all input!
This is an old thread but I thought Id chime in since there hasn't been a post in a bit and the Adobe forum comes up near the top of the Google search for this issue.
The 24" iMac is notorious ( at least in my own professional experience) for being too bright even at the lowest luminance setting..145 is about as low as it will go. I have held out on upgrading from my 20" iMac at home until I hear some good feedback on the new 27" iMac, in regards to calibration at least. In the studio I am using an Eizo Color Edge, so there really is no comparison to be made there. The 20" has no problem for me in going all the way to 0, if I wanted it to. Understandably, most people want the bigger monitor, with the added HD, RAM, GPU, and processor upgrades.
Anyways, I am a professional Photographer, teach privately and do a lot of tech work for Artist and Art Photographers that are bringing some or all of their process into the digital age. Many are using the 24" iMac, and after repeated attempts to get a satisfactory calibration with the EyeOne and Spider, I switched to the X-rite's Color Munki. The C.M. does a much better job and from my understanding of what is going on with on screen prompts, it will force the monitor into the luminance setting you have chosen, if you cannot achieve it manually, by tweaking the graphics card. That may be wrong, but I recommend to my clients that they use a luminance setting of 80-90, since they show their work printed and 80 has always worked best for me in matching print density to what I am viewing on screen. Also I do a lot of assignment work for magazines and had a number of density problems with my images printed on 4 color presses using the recommended 120 Luminance.
To recap for people that are skimming through- Color Munki by X-rite works well, for me, calibrating the 24" iMac and getting it's luminance down to at least 90. I use 80 at home, in the studio, and for my clients, because I have found this to be the best monitor luminance for accurate inkjet print density without numerous curves adjustments between test prints. Obviously if you are primarily showing "on screen", or sending work out to be custom printed you may prefer or need to use 110-130 for the luminance.
Yes it sucks that Apple failed to make these computers/ monitors ( as great as they are!) adjustable enough for professional use. Id like some RGB controls for the new ones as well ( I figure that would be relatively easy with LED displays), but that may be asking a lot.
Hope that helps!
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