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Photoshop CS4, do you talk to any actual photographers?

Apr 2, 2009 1:42 AM

Every time I use the new Photoshop CS4 which is part of my CS4 design standard I get so annoyed with you lot at Adobe. What have you done, I don't think you actually take any advice from real photographers who are using your product every day. Sure you may talk to the occasional photographer who is happy to spend 10 hours on one image, paid for by a huge client. But what about everyday professionals that use photoshop as an important tool in their everyday digital workflow.

What I like in the new CS4;
The quick selection tool,
The clone stamp preview.

What I hate about CS4;
1. New screen mode functions, when you select 'full screen mode with menu bar' the image now anchors to the bottom of the screen. How stupid was that? Not only is that where the auto dock will appear on a mac, but I need to see beyond the bottom edge of the image, unless you can see beyond the bottom edge, you do not know where the bottom edge is. Sure you can use the hand tool to re-position the image but as soon as you touch the navigator to re-size, down it jumps to the bottom of the screen. It used to float freely in CS3, why change it.
2. No contact sheet II in the automate menu. Now you want me to create contact sheets in pdf format. I am a professional photographer, I use a professional lab for printing, professional labs want image files like jpegs or tiffs not pdf's. Who thought that was a good idea? not a photographer. Your solution is to load the 'legacy version' as a plug-in. The fact you have withdrawn it from CS4 demonstrates you don't understand the business of professional photography.
3. Colour labels used in CS4 bridge aren't recognised by lightroom2. CS4 bridge cant read CS2 Bridge colour labels. Why not? it's just simple metadata and they are all Adobe products.

There are other niggles but these three affect my workflow detrimentally and I get annoyed with you lot at Adobe every day, not because I'm a grumpy old whatsit but because you software designers/engineers change things and you obviously don't know how they are used in the real world. You also develop ridiculous things like the aptly named 'image toss' what is the point of that? As a piece of software it might be very clever but I can't see how it will ever be useful.
 
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
    11,247 posts
    Jul 27, 2006
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    Apr 2, 2009 1:49 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Chris,

    You're addressing fellow users here, not Adobe, just your peers.

    Your post is a little too long to read in its entirety, but your number 2 is misguided. Contact Sheet II is available as an option, it's just not installed by default. Download it, install it and you'll have it in File > Automate in CS4 too.

    http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/10/where_did_extra.html
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 10:45 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Your post is a little too long to read in its entirety...
    Chris, I really apologize for hijacking your thread, but this has just gotta be said:

    Ramon, you're a tool.
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
    11,247 posts
    Jul 27, 2006
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    Apr 2, 2009 11:03 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    You're nothing, Vee.
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 11:33 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    You're a day late for an April Fool joke.

    There are only a few thousand photographers in the Photoshop beta test program, and our alpha test group is heavily weighted toward photographers, in addition to the dozen or so semi-pro photographers on the development team. Yeah, I think we listened to a few photographers.
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 11:44 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    What is image toss?
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
    11,247 posts
    Jul 27, 2006
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    Apr 2, 2009 11:55 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Hand toss images: Select the Hand tool and click-toss the image (like flicking on the iPhone). The image should glide across the screen and slowly come to rest.


    From: http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405745
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 11:55 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    It's the ability to flick the image and send it free-wheeling in any direction in CS4 but you need to be able to use OpenGL to use that feature.

    I love it.

    [And I am a photographer!]
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 12:10 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Contact Sheet belongs in Photoshop by default install, and forever.
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 12:10 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    >Hand toss images: Select the Hand tool and click-toss the image (like flicking on the iPhone). The image should glide across the screen and slowly come to rest.

    Which is referred to in the help and prefs as "flick panning". Interesting.

    And why do you love it Ann? I must say I turned it off immediately. What am I missing?
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 12:20 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    You're nothing, Vee.
    Plonk.
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 12:22 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    When you are zoomed-in and retouching a large image, you just flick and the image starts gliding; and you can then just click on the screen to stop it dead in its tracks in that position.

    Bird's Eye View and Toss Image are two new features that I find very useful.
     
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    Apr 2, 2009 12:50 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    You also develop ridiculous things like the aptly named 'image toss' what is the point of that? As a piece of software it might be very clever but I can't see how it will ever be useful.
    I kind of liken this to a pen you might twirl in your hand as you think/work... I agree that it's not necessary, but I've found it's sort of an immersive experience, if that makes any sense. It's inaccurate, but just "catch" the image again to land on the spot I wanted.
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 7:37 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Chris,

    Some observations, from the sidelines...
    >It's a shame the Adobe Photoshop engineer above applied himself to being personally rude and sarcastic.

    But, you started off with,
    >Photoshop CS4, do you talk to any actual photographers?
    >...What have you done, I don't think you actually take any advice from real photographers who are using your product every day. Sure you may talk to the occasional photographer who is happy to spend 10 hours on one image, paid for by a huge client.

    Yet you accuse Chris of being rude and arrogant.

    Neil
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 9:20 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Chris you call chris cox rude and sarcastic, we have been interacting with chris cox for years now. you show up we have never heard of you before yet you start ranting about things you know nothing about.

    who really is rude?

    I don't think its CC
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 9:40 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    I'd say that's probably one of the reasons many companies keep such a tight rein on how they provide support. Personally, I think it's great to have the Photoshop engineers interacting with the community, but you run the risk of... well, just being yourself. Support personnel, on the other hand, are trained to appease the customer and sugar coat their responses, for better or worse. :/
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
    11,247 posts
    Jul 27, 2006
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    Apr 3, 2009 11:47 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Chris Boyce, you are a moron.

    That's not rude, that's factual.
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 11:55 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Adobe listens to too many Photographers is the real problem. Even Bruce said so.
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 12:06 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Can't wait to see this happy talk migrated to the new forums.
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 12:23 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Chris Boyce, you are a moron.

    That's not rude, that's factual.
    Perfect example of what's wrong with this forum (the community, not the software running it) when there aren't any repercussions for folks who are overtly offensive. :/
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 12:54 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    >Can't wait to see this happy talk migrated to the new forums.

    You mean the Kindergarten Forums?

    Where we get to:

    Post the "happy talk" in colored text in a dozen fonts (including Comic Sans!);

    Display ugly mug shots of ourselves (or the sort of self-satisfied smirks that we have already seen in the Test Forum);

    And give each other Points (Gold Stars) for "Correct Answers".

    And it is all as slow molasses in February?

    But they did leave out the finger paint so where's the fun in that?
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 12:57 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Vee S:

    Perhaps you don't quite "Fit in" here?

    [I recognise the style of this poster but there appears to have been a name change?]
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 1:03 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    > You mean the Kindergarten Forums?
    Where we get to:
    Post the "happy talk" in colored text in a dozen fonts (including Comic Sans!);
    Display ugly mug shots of ourselves (or the sort of self-satisfied smirks that we have already seen in the Test Forum);
    And give each other Points (Gold Stars) for "Correct Answers".
    And it is all as slow molasses in February?
    But they did leave out the finger paint so where's the fun in that?

    No.
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 1:11 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Tom is referring to the great forum in the sky, where we will all be finally judged (except me, I've got an inside man handling my case). ;)
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 1:15 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Well I have only managed to find the utterly infantile:

    http://adobeforums.adobe.com/community/general/english_discussions?vie w=discussions

    which fully comply with my description in #18.

    But I couldn't find the Finger Paint that seems to be the only unnecessary frivolity that has been omitted from those horrible new Forums.
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 1:33 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Not to worry. Adobe knows best for everyone...

    They are brilliant - remember?
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 1:45 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    So I have to bring my own Finger Paint?

    :(
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 1:49 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Adobe is done and served. Better off counting sheep.
     
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    Apr 3, 2009 1:51 PM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    Perhaps you don't quite "Fit in" here?
    Yeah, perhaps not, though I like the idea of being able to ask questions and converse in the "official" Adobe forums so I hope I can stick around.

    Am I the first person to ever bring this topic up? Here's my question to all you regulars... I realize in this thread the OP posted a sarcastic title and seems to rant about the devs, but how many times have you seen Ramon resort to plain ol' name calling in situations like this? What are we, in junior high? I mean, I guess I could play along for awhile and spit out vitriol every now and to demean others. I might be fun since I can just hide behind my computer here, but is that the environment you really want?

    [I recognise the style of this poster but there appears to have been a name change?]
    This is v6v6v6, someone suggested I change my name and I was happy to oblige.
     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
    11,247 posts
    Jul 27, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 9, 2009 2:04 PM   in reply to Vee S

    (Vee_S) wrote:

    This is v6v6v6, someone suggested I change my name and I was happy to oblige.

     

     

    Look at your post #2 in this thread and then tell us who started with the name calling here, [http://forums.adobe.com/thread/414764]

     


     
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    Apr 6, 2009 8:51 PM   in reply to Ramón G Castañeda

    Note: Hmm, looks like my post didn't make it.  Trying again...

     

    Yeah, I shouldn't have called you that, but grow up, man, it's not just about name calling.  It's your general lack of respect for anyone you deem beneath you.  BTW, do you realize you "plonked" me a couple weeks ago vowing to never respond to any of my threads, but then you obviously couldn't resist and made some derogatory remarks in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with you?  Please take a look through my past threads and judge again...  I'm just calling you out.  I feel you're the one itching for a fight, my friend.

     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
    11,247 posts
    Jul 27, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2009 11:53 PM   in reply to Vee S

    v6v6v6 wrote:

    I'm just calling you out.  I feel you're the one itching for a fight, my friend.

     

     

    Let's get two points straight, right off the bat:  I'm neither your friend nor am I itching for a fight with you.  I can't engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

     

    Now:

     

    Yeah, I shouldn't have called you that, but grow up, man, it's not just about name calling.  It's your general lack of respect for anyone you deem beneath you.  BTW, do you realize you "plonked" me a couple weeks ago vowing to never respond to any of my threads, but then you obviously couldn't resist and made some derogatory remarks in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with you?

    Wrong again.  I commented on someone who quoted a post that turned out to be from you.  I was not addressing you.  It had nothing to do with "not resisting" anything.

     

    The plonking scripts have not yet been customized to work in these new forums.  In the meantime, your posts are visible to me.  C'est la vie… 

     

     

    v6v6v6 wrote:

     

      Please take a look through my past threads and judge again...

     

    I stand by my comments, my judgments and my opinions as stated in the context in which I have formulated and expressed each one of them.

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
    7,043 posts
    Jan 11, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2009 1:44 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)
    3. Colour labels used in CS4 bridge aren't recognised by lightroom2. CS4 bridge cant read CS2 Bridge colour labels. Why not? it's just simple metadata and they are all Adobe products

    You need to set up similar text in both software, as the labels are stored by their name (red, blue, select, second...)

    The procedure is explained here: http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2009/01/sharing_labels_between _lightro.html

    Hope this helps. Please ignore the banter.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2009 5:05 AM   in reply to (Chris_Boyce)

    (Chris_Boyce) wrote:

    1. New screen mode functions, when you select 'full screen mode with menu bar' the image now anchors to the bottom of the screen. How stupid was that? Not only is that where the auto dock will appear on a mac, but I need to see beyond the bottom edge of the image, unless you can see beyond the bottom edge, you do not know where the bottom edge is. Sure you can use the hand tool to re-position the image but as soon as you touch the navigator to re-size, down it jumps to the bottom of the screen. It used to float freely in CS3, why change it.

    It doesn't on my Mac or My PC, It stays centred. You may have an OS/Graphics bug, quite likely if you are using the flaky Leopard.

     

    2. No contact sheet II in the automate menu. Now you want me to create contact sheets in pdf format. I am a professional photographer, I use a professional lab for printing, professional labs want image files like jpegs or tiffs not pdf's. Who thought that was a good idea? not a photographer. Your solution is to load the 'legacy version' as a plug-in. The fact you have withdrawn it from CS4 demonstrates you don't understand the business of professional photography.

    Contact sheet is in Bridge, a much more sensible and practical location for it, than in PS and PDFs are very commonly used for printing. You use jpegs and Tiffs for printing individual images, layouts which contact sheets are, are better served by PDFs.

     

    3. Colour labels used in CS4 bridge aren't recognised by lightroom2. CS4 bridge cant read CS2 Bridge colour labels. Why not? it's just simple metadata and they are all Adobe products.

    LR + Bridge's label issues drives me nuts as well. As pointed out above there is a explanation, but it shouldn't be an issue in first place. Bridge and LR should work together, not do everything slightly differently. You lose the benefits of same company software due to LR's let's do everything different attitude even if the old way is actually quite good. The label colour should be independent of the label name, particularly as there are desperately few labels anyway,

     

     

    First visit to the new forums, which rather pathetically do not work with my browser, so I have to use a crappy, crippled browser instead, so even less reason to visit. But although there's an all new look, there's the same old Ramon policing the forums, instructing people how to post and being abusive to all around. So, at at least some things in life are constant.

     
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    Apr 7, 2009 5:10 AM   in reply to (J_Maloney)

    (J_Maloney) wrote:

     

    What is image toss?

    A very unfortunate name!

    It certainly wouldn't have been called that in the UK, as it sounds like it pertains to pleasures of the onanistic kind!

     
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    Apr 7, 2009 10:54 AM   in reply to Ramón G Castañeda

    Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

     

     

    Let's get two points straight, right off the bat:  I'm neither your friend nor am I itching for a fight with you.  I can't engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person

    Bravo, good sir, nice job defending a phrase that's meant to be rhetorical.  I think we'll call it a day on that point.

     

    Ramón G Castañeda wrote:

     

    Wrong again.  I commented on someone who quoted a post that turned out to be from you.  I was not addressing you.  It had nothing to do with "not resisting" anything.

     

    The plonking scripts have not yet been customized to work in these new forums.  In the meantime, your posts are visible to me.  C'est la vie… 

     

    You announced to the Adobe community that you were going to ignore me in this thread and it happened to be your one and only post (had nothing to do with the topic):  "Plonking V6 :/ No offense, V6. This just means I won't see your posts anymore, that's all."  Seems like you didn't need a plonking script then to make that claim.  You then proceeded to reply to my post in this thread and I simply ignored you.  Your assertion that you "commented on someone who quoted a post that turned out to be from you" is BS.  There was no quote--just my original post that you replied to.  So either be prepared to follow through or get called on it, ok?

     

    Ramon, let's get to the bottom line...  I'm specifically calling you out because in typical Internet-bully fashion you hide behind your computer and blow spitballs at anyone who would even dare to cross you.  You're one of the most vocal in the community and from what I've observed and experienced in the last few months is that any good information you've got to share is drowned out by this vicious jekyll and hyde show.  At least this is true for any newcomers that happen to stop by.  For example, you make questionable statements like, "Really, if I'd known we were discussing MacBooks, I wouldn't even had [sic] read the thread. :/", disparaging comments like, "Your post is a little too long to read in its entirety..." as in the beginning of this thread, or ludicrous claims like, "It's very unlikely that Adobe staff who drop by as volunteers, on their own time and dime, will respond to this [sic] type of questions.  It's futile to ask why. It just  is." and then an Adobe staff member comes along and responds.

     

    So grow up...  let's all grow up.  I feel that along with the new forum, we should also usher in a new attitude as posted in the Forum Etiquette and Best Practices thread.  Not to rely on simple stereotypes, but this isn't some gaming or car forum full of teenagers.  I hope I speak for all newcomers (and maybe some vets) when I say I want a professional forum.  We're supposed to be professionals in our respective fields.  We participate in this community to better our knowledge of PS and other Adobe products that we rely on on a daily basis.  I don't put down my colleagues who I work with on a daily basis and I shouldn't expect this type of behavior amongst my online peers, either.

     
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    Apr 7, 2009 3:53 PM   in reply to Vee S

    v6v6v6 wrote:

     

    Ramon, let's get to the bottom line...  I'm specifically calling you out because in typical Internet-bully fashion you hide behind your computer and blow spitballs at anyone who would even dare to cross you.  You're one of the most vocal in the community and from what I've observed and experienced in the last few months is that any good information you've got to share is drowned out by this vicious jekyll and hyde show. 

     

    So grow up...  let's all grow up.  I feel that along with the new forum, we should also usher in a new attitude as posted in the Forum Etiquette and Best Practices thread.  Not to rely on simple stereotypes, but this isn't some gaming or car forum full of teenagers.  I hope I speak for all newcomers (and maybe some vets) when I say I want a professional forum.  We're supposed to be professionals in our respective fields.  We participate in this community to better our knowledge of PS and other Adobe products that we rely on on a daily basis.  I don't put down my colleagues who I work with on a daily basis and I shouldn't expect this type of behavior amongst my online peers, either.

     

    This positive attitude should be encouraged. I visit here on occasions to do research and cannot help but notice Ramon's omnipresence, which wouldn't be an issue but for the bizzarre outbursts of vitriol and very nasty abuse. Doesn't encourage me to partake or post and I'm sure others are put off as well. I prefer to stick to the professional forums where that sort of behaviour is simply not tolerated.

    And to return to the subject heading, I'm a pro photographer and I'm an Adobe Alpha tester, so yes Adobe do seek our advice and people on those forums tend to be polite and courteous, so I'll head off there instead for now.

     
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    Apr 7, 2009 5:26 PM   in reply to imajez

    Come on you thin skinners, leave Ramón alone. Don't take him so serious. He has been good for a lot of laughs over the years and he actually knows what he is talking some times. I have had my run ins with him more than once and looking back I have had a good chuckle about them.

     
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  • Ramón G Castañeda
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    Jul 27, 2006
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    Apr 8, 2009 1:14 AM   in reply to Vee S

    v6v6v6 wrote:

    …  you hide behind your computer

     

    If anybody is hiding here that would be the cowards hiding behind an anonymous pseudonym.


    I post under my real name.  Ramón G Castañeda, ramon [at] surewest [dot] net, not a gmail or hotmail phony address.  My face in my profile is real—if a little dated (I needed one with my beard, which I shaved off several years ago).  That's who I am.

     

    RGC_Ram_Aries_avatar_compNEW.jpg

     

    Grow up yourself, v6v6v6 punk.  You sound below the cognitive level of even my youngest grandchild under any of the pseudonyms you've used here so far..

     

    Message was edited by: Ramón G Castañeda

     
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