Lindas Graphics - 02:08pm Feb 6, 2003 Pacific (#87 of 113)
Words of wisdom Tim.
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Steve Vesperman - 02:16pm Feb 6, 2003 Pacific (#88 of 113)
All too true, fellow feeelancers. But I love it.
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bonniej - 04:28pm Feb 6, 2003 Pacific (#89 of 113)
And let the answering machine pick up the calls..
if it is a client you can call them back in a short while.
If it is a friend... wait until the work is done to call them back.
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Robert Blackwell - 10:06am Feb 17, 2003 Pacific (#90 of 113)
just keeping the thread a live.
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Lindas Graphics - 11:10am Feb 17, 2003 Pacific (#91 of 113)
Good for you Robert. We need more threads like this one in the lounge. I would rather think of the lounge as a taking-a-coffee-break-place rather than a place for disfunctionals to brag about how much they can drink, etc. and then tear down our country. The good thing is it keeps some of the nonsense out of the main forums. The bad thing is anything is that anything OT, even if it's of a professional, related nature, gets sent here -- where it usually gets trashed. Still, I'm in favor of supporting the worthwhile threads here as there are still many in this forum that I respect and enjoy interacting with...as well as learning that still does take place.
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YrbkMgr - 03:01pm Feb 17, 2003 Pacific (#92 of 113)
Well I just read through all 91 posts and have my own two cents to add. This comes from more of a philosophical standpoint, but may be worth of consideration. For the sake of brevity, I won't go into all of the sublties of possibilities, but I will qualify my position in what follows with this: I have been in sales and marketing for some of this countries top companies, I have taught professional salesmen how to sell (formal classes), and have a passion for the sales process.
That's a long winded way to say, I like to think that I know a bit about needs satisfaction selling - although, like a sushi chef, it takes a lifetime to master.
Emma,
Pricing hourly or flat fee is often dependant on a lot of factors: the company (Nike), the market, how much time you actually have.
When I started a consulting business years ago, everyone in the market charged hourly - from $75/hour to $200 per hour. Our strategy was to compete with them and make it really difficult for the client to compare apples to apples.
We chose to go flat fee for everything, and the way we sold it was based on this. If you hire a stupid plumber, and it takes him longer to find and fix the problem you pay him more. If you hire an idiot programmer who can't solve your problem right away, you pay him more. Does this make sense to you?
We structured all projects with DEFINED end points. This takes a lot of effort and conversation with the client. I believe however, that setting expectations up front protects you the best. We spent a lot of time in asking questions to the client. Don't ever forget: People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.
By asking questions, confirming processes, etc., you and the client engage in a way that demonstrates your prowess, and confers a great deal of confidence for them.
Emma, don't EVER sell yourself short. What is easy for you is not easy for someone else. That's why you pay so much money for a home - you could build one yourself much cheaper if you knew how.
That is to say, think about the project. Is it tough or easy? Will you have to spend a great deal of time going back and forth with the client? Build that into your price. It's worth every penny.
If you are afraid they will feel gouged - STOP IT! Just don't gouge them, and justify your efforts. Not with hours - they could easily hire someone else for a cheap rate. They can also drive a Yugo as well, but they don't do they?
Another caveat of pricing by the hour, is that you limit yourself to the amount of money you can make. You only have 24 hours in a day and even if you could work all of them, you would still hit a cap.
Sell your expertise. A lot of design folks don't really like the selling process since they want to get right to what they do best: designing. Resist the temptation to shy away from conversation about the "what if's" of the project: I will charge you $500 to create your logo. But here's your obligation - you will assign a project champion, the logo will be completed in 3 weeks, and you will have three concept proofs. If we go beyond three, we will have to charge you $250 for the next set of three proofs.
The point of the above paragraph is to suggest that you MUST get client buy in. They have to work with you, and if they go over their agreed upon endpoint, it will cost them money.
So many times I've seen people take on business for the cash, but in the end it isn't worth it. Charge enough so that you will provide every client with your absolute best work at every stage of the game.
Ever get a job that looked good but after they started trying to cheat you or had "this little extra" to add on, that the job became not worth it at some level? Make sure that doesn't happen.
If you charge too little, you are under selling yourself period. But there are compelling reasons to do it - like starting out. But if you DO charge on the low end, don't do it to be competative. Do it with the intention of asking the client for more business if they use your work.
Something like: Logos in this arena cost between $600 and $750 - for good ones. I will charge you $500 for this job if you folks are willing to provide another job within the next couple of months - provided of course, that you like my work.
All of the above is a bit of free association to inspire you to think more creatively about selling yourself, little more.
I hope it helps some.
Peace,
Tony
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Robert Blackwell - 03:19pm Feb 17, 2003 Pacific (#93 of 113)
It would be cool to archive some of the good threads here before they get expunged. This is one and it's getting close to the edge. Maybe I can copy these posts to a text file or put em in my dbase and then have it on my website.
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Lindas Graphics - 03:41pm Feb 17, 2003 Pacific (#94 of 113) Edited: 17-Feb-2003 at 03:43pm PST
Tony: That is a very well written and excellent piece of advice. Very nice of you!!!
Why is it getting close Robert? If we keep it active it should keep going, no? I sometimes copy and paste a thread into Word, delete the junk, and print the good stuff.
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dave milbut - 03:50pm Feb 17, 2003 Pacific (#95 of 113)
OOOO! A Lounge FAQ!!! or COOL THREAD folder. Only admin accessable. Only tangently ps, photg, business or design related posts need apply.
Tony, you are wise beyond your years my friend.
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