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How much video RAM ?

Apr 25, 2008 7:21 PM

Someone asked how much video RAM does one need for Photoshop and I replied:

"You only need enough to display millions of colours on your monitor. For straight 2D work graphics apps like Photoshop don't need all that extra RAM you see on cards today as it's only needed for 3d stuff like gaming."

But then I see Adobe's Technote ID 331412 recommending that Photoshop should have more then 128mb RAM on the videocard and that has me wondering why??

Used to be you only needed 8mb RAM to drive a 20 inch screen at 24 bit colour. So what kinds of Photoshop tasks need more? And with Quad-Core processors and system RAM so cheap these days (compared to them olden days) what kind of 2D help can video card RAM offer that would make any real difference with 2D photo editing?

Thanks for any insight.

Russell :-)
 
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    Apr 26, 2008 12:34 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    In general 128 MB is quite sufficient for CS3 Standard Edition. However Bridge can use extra VRAM and CS3 Extended will definitely use it.

    To be fairly future-proof I ordered a card with 512MB for my new computer. (I don't use CS3 Extended.)
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 12:17 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    > WHY does Photoshop now recommend more video RAM for 2D editing than earlier versions?

    It is used by Bridge in rendering HQ thumbnails and previews (and CS3 Extended does 3D).

    I think it helps with screen redraws now too. Current GUIs use so many fancy effects that the old mathematical rule of thumb no longer applies.
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 2:39 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    John is right, although I'm not sure *how* right. Photoshop is supposed to shunt some tasks to the video cards memory, a practice that began with the release of (CS3?). How effective this is and how much one would be hobbled by using an "ancient" card with only 64MB or less of VRAM is anybody's guess... (where IS Cris Cox when you need him?)

    At any rate, future versions of Photoshop will likely lean more heavily on the graphics subsystems than ever before, so might as well gear up.
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 3:11 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    > might as well gear up.

    I did: the card in my new computer has 512MB. I was going to go for 256MB till I did a bit of reading.
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 4:22 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    Now that PS includes some 3D capabilities it would seem to be necessary, having said that you can get a really good nVidia card for $150 with 512Mb of VRAM that support DirectX 10 etc. Not really a large investment when you consider the cost of other components.
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 10:16 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    john, if i have to hear about your thousand dollar video card again, i'm going to swim over there and give your nose a great tweaking! :P
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 10:43 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    ;)
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 2:46 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    Seems, preview cash (zooming) PS keeps in VRAM as well as any filter results. Cris Cox (mentioned above) one day said that 64 Mb VRAM is quite enough for PS. At that time we were discussing Photoshop CS.
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 2:59 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    Things have changed.
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 3:31 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    and not for the better!
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 7:07 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    Photoshop and Bridge, in the CS3 version, now internally use Flash for some of the effects, which may well use some of more advanced capabilities of the video cards, as well as their Video RAM, if available. For example, a screen shot of Photoshop doesn't include the palette tabs that show on my screen (neither the ones on top of the docked palettes nor the ones sticking out from the side). Those are put in the display via video card enhancements, probably using Flash. Here's an example: <br /> <a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1GrhZhNFc5hwaYUfjMy2q ZG15gv0" /></a> <img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1GrhZhNFc5hwaYUfjMy2qZG15gv0_thu mb.gif" border="0" /> <br />Bear in mind that those palettes are docked together vertically, and each one has multiple tabs.
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 9:42 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    I noticed a significant slowdown when I upgraded to CS3...so I added more ram and a bigger video card, and that has helped the process some, but I will be honest and tell you guys that for my daily edits (proofing, etc.) I use CS. I only use CS3 for high end edits anymore.

    Randy
    [advertising links deleted by host]
     
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    Apr 27, 2008 11:28 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    Is that supposed to be good advice?

    You should remove the self-promoting signature.
     
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    Apr 28, 2008 5:02 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    > john, if i have to hear about your thousand dollar video card again

    Sadly I paid that amount for a Hercules card back in the day. I didn't even have a monitor that could run it, but I saw it as an investment in the future. No doubt I would be able to use it for the next 10 years, including when I got my new hi rez monitor.

    What a joke. I kept it for that monitor, bought a half year later, and maybe for a year afterwards. At that time it had a resale value of about $20.
     
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    Apr 28, 2008 5:09 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    That might have been the price Dave found on the web but I can assure you I paid a lot less as part of a complete build.
     
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    Apr 28, 2008 6:06 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    ya. sure, mr. money bags. or should i say MZ. ONO!!! :)
     
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    Apr 28, 2008 9:23 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    I'm running CS3 on computers with 128MB laptop motherboard video, 512MB gaming card, a 256MB workstation card and an Intel motherboard graphics chipset with 224MB of shared RAM. I don't see any difference in image quality or speed.

    So I'd say any video card that will drive the monitor of your choice at the resolution of your choice at 32-bits is all you need.
     
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    Apr 28, 2008 10:23 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    The advice should be 'don't overspend'. I would explain the minimum requirements of PS, but recommend a 256Mb card, they can be had for a song pretty well anywhere.

    I bought an ATI FireGL card for my recent build. What a piece of over-priced crap, an nVidia card for 25% of the price beats the butt off it. Finally got it exchanged, but I really don't have time right now to see if it works any better.
     
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    May 31, 2008 10:04 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    Russell,

    The 128MB Vid-RAM "requirement" goes back to CS2. However, like you, I ran that on a "touch-up" machine with a Matrox 450-32MB just fine.

    Do not have CS3 to "test" that old box, but I would be interesting to see what happens. Because I do some 3-D (along with video with GPU effects), I've got a Quadro 4500Fx-512MB, and I see no difference in CS2 from my older workstation. Other than tasks involving CPU, RAM and I/O functions, it appears the same: 32MB vs 512MB.

    Hunt
     
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    May 31, 2008 4:32 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    Get ready. The other GPU shoe is about to drop.

    http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37611/140/
     
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    Jun 1, 2008 1:00 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    May be my extravagant choice of video card for my quad-core on a Vista 64bit OS was a lucky mistake!
     
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    Jun 2, 2008 10:36 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    With the new GPU capabilities in Photoshop CS4, you may want to be thinking of something like a 512MB nVideo 8800 GT. You can get an XFX model at NewEgg for $130. This should really speed things up.
     
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    Jun 2, 2008 11:20 AM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    How much better are GPUs for shuffling bits around than CPUs?

    "Supercomputer Built With 8 GPUs"
    http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/31/1633214
    "Researchers at the University of Antwerp in Belgium have created a new supercomputer with standard gaming hardware. The system uses four NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 graphics cards, costs less than 4,000 to build, and delivers roughly the same performance as a supercomputer cluster consisting of hundreds of PCs. This new system is used by the ASTRA research group, part of the Vision Lab of the University of Antwerp, to develop new computational methods for tomography. The guys explain the eight NVIDIA GPUs deliver the same performance for their work as more than 300 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz processors. On a normal desktop PC their tomography tasks would take several weeks but on this NVIDIA-based supercomputer it only takes a couple of hours. The NVIDIA graphics cards do the job very efficiently and consume a lot less power than a supercomputer cluster."
     
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    Jun 2, 2008 5:13 PM   in reply to (Russell_Proulx)
    That's pretty impressive. I wonder how long before someone codes a consumer OS for a GPU? Linux port, anyone?
     
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