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Premiere Elements 7 Track Matte Key Bug?

Oct 30, 2008 11:25 AM

I am somewhat new to Premiere Elements 7 and am using the Track Matte Key effect for the first time. If I set my background layer as Video 1, my foreground as Video 2 and my Matte as Video 3 everything seems to work as expected. However, if I use the exact same settings using other layers (video 2, 3 and 4 for example) the matte layer remains opaque. In my 1, 2, 3 example I even tried inserting a new video layer below the existing (so 1 becomes 2 and so on) and it immediately stopped working. Unless there is some step I am missing this seems like a bug.

1961 Views 31 Replies Latest reply: Bill Hunt, Jun 20, 2012 8:11 PM

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1. Paul_LS,

Oct 30, 2008 11:31 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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Yes it is a bug... been there since the earlier versions. And it was not fixed in this version even though Adobe are aware or it... which makes me think it is a difficult one to rectify.

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2. (sphbecker),

Oct 30, 2008 12:25 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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that is sad, especially considering that using different backgrounds was one of the selling points of this version. I played around with it a little more and found that it is correctly making the foreground layer transparent, what it fails to do is make the matte layer invisible as I would if it was on layer 3. If I turn down the opacity of the matte I can see the background below, unfortunately as i turn it down the level of transparency also goes down.

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3. (editmachine),

Oct 31, 2008 1:17 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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I thought this happens only if we have deleted the empty tracks in the project.

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4. (sphbecker),

Oct 31, 2008 5:13 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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You are correct, I just tested opening a new project and everything works as expected. As soon as I use the "delete empty tracks" option it stops working. I also found out adding tracks before the first track triggers the problem as well, probably because in both cases Elements is having to rearrange the track definitions.

At least now I know how to avoid the problem next time, but that doesn't really help me for this project, it would take way too long to recreate everything.

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5. PeterFDuke,

Oct 31, 2008 7:22 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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What happens if you delete the clip with track matte added? If that is OK, reinsert the clip and add the track matte the "correct" way, or add the track matte to the clip in a separate project, export and insert into main project.

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6. (sphbecker),

Oct 31, 2008 11:35 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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I am not sure of any other "correct" why to do it , I have tried deleting all three clips, and adding them back. Then adding the effect to the 2nd layered clip and setting it to key matte of the 3rd layer and it doesn't work.

I am trying to have a title pan by, using it as the matte to open a window up so that you see video through the letters. I think I'll be able to make something work but I will have to do as you suggested, export from one project to another, then if I need to change anything I'll have to do all that again, what a pain!

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7. PeterFDuke,

Oct 31, 2008 7:01 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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By "correct" I merely meant the way that seems to work best, i.e. add the background to track 1, feature video to track 2 and track matte to track 3, in that order and don't insert or delete tracks afterwards.

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8. (sphbecker),

Nov 2, 2008 1:53 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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I was wrong on my first post; it has nothing to do with the track numbers, but instead how those tracks have been rearraged within the project. If I have not added any tracks before the first track or removed any tracks then everything works fine. If I ever remove a track or add a track before the first then the project file is permanently damaged and no Track Matte key will ever work again on any track of the project.

In my case I removed a video track 4 a while back, which is why I am still able to use a track matte on layer 3, but nothing higher. If it was track 2 I removed, then I would be completely dead in the water, not that it really matters, I need to have the matte track be track 5 so it doesnt work for me either way.

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9. VideoJohnny,

Nov 2, 2008 4:58 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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sphbecker - you areright. That is exactly the way the bug works.

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10. VideoJohnny,

Nov 2, 2008 4:59 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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sphbecker - you areright. That is exactly the way the bug works. Better to select all and move up 1 track than to add a track below the track where the matte is.

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11. Robert J. Johnston,

Nov 2, 2008 6:02 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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Just lassoing and moving the three clips up a track in version 7 breaks it for me.

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12. VideoJohnny,

Nov 3, 2008 4:31 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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>Just lassoing and moving the three clips up a track in version 7 breaks it for me.

If that's the case, then I suggest to plan ahead. Leave track 1 empty if you want to use the track matte. That will leave you some room and not have to move the clips.

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13. VideoJohnny,

Nov 3, 2008 5:31 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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>Just lassoing and moving the three clips up a track in version 7 breaks it for me.

I ran a test with the trial version of PRE7.

I put a background clip on track 1
Another clip on track 2
a matte on track 3
I added the track matte effect to the clip on track 2 and pointed to the matte on track 3. - all worked fine.
Then I lassoed everything and moved it all up 1 track.
I needed to go to the properties of the clip on track 2 (formally track 2) and point to track 4
Then everything worked fine.
So I though I would try it again, lassoed everything and moved it up 1 track. After adjusting the properties each time the track matte worked fine. I repeated this all the way up to track 10. No problems.

Another test I ran last night was to move just the matte up 1 track. After poining to the new track each time the track matte worked fine. I also did this up to track 10.

I repeated the tests with PRE4 and it worked identical.

So it sounds like there is no bug, right? Wrong.

In my current project, made in PRE4, I could not have the matte above track 4. If I did the track matte effect would not work. I never added any tracks, never removed any tracks, never lassoed everything to move things up or down a track. I do not know what went wrong. All I know is something did and it stopped working correctly.
I loaded the same project into PRE7 and the problem was still there. Something got corrupted in my project and I do not know what happened.

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14. Robert J. Johnston,

Nov 3, 2008 11:10 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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JohnnyO,

I was trying to go from memory on what happened, but my memory failed me. You are right about it not being broken when lassoing and moving up one track. What I had actually done is insert a track before the first track.

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15. (ezadobe),

Feb 12, 2009 6:04 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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I'm still running PE4. I've only owned it for 6 months, so I'm not in a hurry to update to PE7 when the price is virtually the same, and from what I read here, the bug that is costing me so much time is still there in PE7.

If the problem is that the project file is becoming corrupt in some way as a result of moving/deleting tracks, surely there's some way to fix this?

I've done hours of audio/video resyncing, other edits, and now that I try to add a track matte key to blur out some parts of my video, it won't work, all because I made the mistake of using a program feature (delete empty tracks) early on in the project.

OK, so I'm a bit frustrated.

At the moment, it seems to me that I am going to have to save/render my project without the track matte as a single track of video (track 1 only), saving it in raw format if I can.

I'll then need to create a new project, add the saved video to track 1 and then to track 2 (with mosaic and track matte key), and then a matte/title to track 3. Hopefully that will then work.

The hassle though is that the matte I currently have has a multitude of position and opacity keys that move the matte around and hide it when not needed. How can I save the matte along with it's movements so I can then add that to the new project?

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16. Steve Grisetti,

Feb 12, 2009 7:05 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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I'm not sure that's possible, ez.

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17. Robert J. Johnston,

Feb 12, 2009 7:14 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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It might be possible to copy the three items at once using Clipmate. Then you can paste from Clipmate into another project at any time.

Transitions can't be copied to Clipmate. If you copy audio, you have to Clip > Audio options > "render and replace" it after you paste it in the new project, otherwise it will be lost.

http://www.clipmate.com/

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18. (ezadobe),

Feb 12, 2009 8:14 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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Thanks for the clipmate idea. I'll try that out as soon as I can and get post the results.

ez

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19. Robert J. Johnston,

Feb 12, 2009 11:26 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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I gave it a try myself it does work. Here is some more info on clipmate. http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc366c0/8

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20. (ezadobe),

Feb 13, 2009 4:05 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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What a ledgend! It worked. With clipmate installed, it took maybe 10 minutes to create a new project with the video and matte all working perfectly.

I'm wrapped!

Thanks so much.

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21. (editmachine),

Feb 15, 2009 10:08 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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hi sphbecker ,

When you are moving you clips from 1,2,3 tracks to 2,3,4 tracks (even with lassoing) you should ensure that in the "Track matte video effect" setting you are changing the composite later from 'Track2' to 'Track3'

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22. (ezadobe),

Feb 16, 2009 6:16 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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Further to my success last week using clipmate, last night I noticed that having had a couple of days away from the project, when I loaded it, there was no audio.

Now the link that Robert J. Johnston gave warned me of this and the technique contained therein works. For me though I had obviously missed a step or two and the audio was missing.

To fix this, I closed PE, renamed the two AVI files from which all video and audio was being taken, and then reloaded PE and the project.

PE asked me to locate the files, and, since I had only made minor changes to the filenames, I just located the files, and let PE do the rest.

The downside was that PE then needed to re-compose the two files (which I suspect used up a lot of disk space), but after that all is well with the world.

Just thought I'd pass on this tidbit.

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23. Bill Hunt,

Feb 17, 2009 9:31 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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Yes, with the new filenames, PE will need to create both a CFA and PEK file for that Audio. Until the Project is finished, I'd hold off on removing these files, though they do take up room. If you do remove them, I'd do all, and then let PE recreate just the ones needed, when you Open that Project. This will be done automatically, but will take some time - get a cup of coffee and be patient. Depending on your system, I'd let this complete, before doing any other editing - watch the lower right-hand corner of your screen, until there are no blue bars. Once done, you can edit at your leisure.

Hunt

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24. (Dale_Beecher),

Mar 21, 2009 10:24 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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WOW !!!! OMG !!!! Thanks so much you people for your genurous advice. But WOW !!!! I'v been trying to figure this out for 6 weeks! And now way behind schedule. My com teacher has put quite a bit of time into it also. No wonder it is so difficult for a com illiterate like me to find anything on this subject. How many people out their have the IQ to figure that out? To me it seems sooo complicated, hope the teacher can figure it out, and pass on the "tricks" involved. Myself, am going to have to read what you all have said a few times. You must all agree, this is not good ? Yes ? Virtually beyond my leval of understanding, I'm thinking right now, "find different software Dale, spare yourself" WOW a bug they cant fix ? But we will study your thoughtfull solutions 1st. Many thanks :-)

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25. Bill Hunt,

Mar 25, 2009 3:57 PM in reply to (sphbecker)

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I would *guess* that the problem with Track Matte Keying and Adding/Deleting Tracks likely stems from PE's designers anticipating how they think most users will work. PE does a lot of Track positioning automatically. For some, this works perfectly. I, however, like to place Assets on the Track of my choice, like I do in PrPro. There is probably a bit of coding themselves into a corner, on the automatic Asset placement on particular Tracks. I'd also wager that they did not anticipate users Deleting Tracks, until a Project was complete, if they considered it at all.

Were this an easy fix, from a coding standpoint, Adobe would have addressed it in later versions.

Now, with the new Track Targeting (a la AVID) in CS4 a Track Matte issue has popped up there too. At least it works perfectly in my old PrPro2, so I'm "home free," for awhile, at least.

Hunt

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26. rtk1958,

Jun 20, 2012 9:38 AM in reply to (sphbecker)

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Hey, know this may be a blast from the past, but just now experiencing the same track matte "bug" in PE 7 that you and others discussed a few years ago.

Seemed to be the consensus then that what triggers the bug was either:

1. adding a video track before track 1, i.e., creating a new track 1, or
2. deleting empty (video?) tracks.

My question is does the track matte bug get triggered only if video tracks are deleted, or would it be triggered by deleting audio tracks as well? I have a completely separate soundtrack for my production and have no need for the audio associated with my video clips, so I've been deleting the audio tracks.

Thanks for your help,
Todd Killian

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27. Bill Hunt,

Jun 20, 2012 10:02 AM in reply to rtk1958

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Back a year, or two ago, Ed Macke posted of a Track Matte Key bug. Cannot recall the version that he was using, but I tested on PrE 4 (IIRC), and found that with a new Project, things worked perfectly, but with an older test Project, it did not. Again from memory, my test Project, while older, never had any Tracks (Audio, or Video) added, or deleted, but a lot of other work had been done in it, as I kept it around, well to test for others, or develop tutorials for an effect. That would lead me to believe that there are other triggers, as well. If I can find Ed's thread, I will post a link to it. Off to do some searching and reading.

Good luck,

Hunt

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28. Bill Hunt,

Jun 20, 2012 10:04 AM in reply to Bill Hunt

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Here is Ed's THREAD.

Hope that helps,

Hunt

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29. Bill Hunt,

Jun 20, 2012 10:07 AM in reply to Bill Hunt

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Here is another, somewhat similar THREAD.

Here is another THREAD, but it appears that some of the in-line images, and maybe links, are now dead. Still, might be something worthwhile?

Might help, or maybe not.

Hunt

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30. rtk1958,

Jun 20, 2012 6:28 PM in reply to Bill Hunt

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Thanks again Bill.

All those threads reinforce the notion that at least PE4-PE7 have a bug that impacts the track matte effect, and I appear to be one of the bug's latest victims. Will probably start over with a new project and be sure not to delete any tracks or add any below track 1 either of which seems to be the most likely trigger for the bug. Don't think editing the track matte sequence in a separate project then importing it into the master project will be very practical, especially since there doesn't seem to be a way to export the clips used in the sequence from the master into the separate project.

Thanks,
Todd

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31. Bill Hunt,

Jun 20, 2012 8:11 PM in reply to rtk1958

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Todd,

As PrE does not have Sequences, like PrPro, there are only workarounds.

To Copy and Paste the material in one Project to another, one needs a Clipboard extender program, like ClipMate.

Or, one could create a Project, edit that, and then Export/Share to, say DV-AVI for an SD Project, and then Import that into the second Project.

Now, I have no idea if the Bug would be triggered by either of those methods.

Good luck,

Hunt

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