Skip navigation
Currently Being Moderated

See any Blu-Ray/HD support in Encore 2.0?

Mar 2, 2006 1:34 PM

I have built a new machine and am updating to ProductionStudio Studio1.0 & Cineform AccessHD4 to be ready to put my HDV footage on discs. Because of the revised bundling, I only have Encore 1.5.1 now. Can anyone tell me if there is evidence of HD support in 2.0 yet? For instance on startup, is there an HD option in addition to NTSC and PAL....or evidence of support for 1080x1920 geometry? Looks like Blu-Ray players and movie releases are set for May 23rd, so burners should be available to consumers soon and Blue-Ray Assn members like Adobe should have them now. Should I hold off till there is an Encore 2.x that advertises that support? Thanks in advance.
 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 2, 2006 2:08 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Short answer is NO

    Long discussion here (did you search?)
    http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?128@@.3bbe268d
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 3, 2006 3:37 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Both HD DVD and Blu Ray are nothing at all to do with DVD-Video.
    It's a different spec that will require different tools, players, encoders and amplifiers.
    EncoreDVD is a DVD-Video authoring tool.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2006 10:28 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Panasonic To Offer Blu-ray Player in September - but
    article says nothing at all about a PC-based burner
    http://news.tmcnet.com/news/2006/03/31/1524943.htm

    Toshiba unveils world's first HD-DVD player - only
    in Japan at this point - but AGAIN the article says
    nothing at all about a PC-based burner
    http://www.electricnews.net/frontpage/news-9677524.html

    So... there is a player for one standard, and will "soon"
    be a player for the other standard... but still no word
    about plans to make/sell burners for computer users

    Based on past history I will GUESS computer based
    burners MIGHT be issued some time in 2007

    If my guess holds true... I would also GUESS that
    Adobe will have a new product at, or very close, to the
    actual release of computer based HiDef burners... but that
    is only MY guess, so don't hold your breath waiting!
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2006 7:20 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >Both HD DVD and Blu Ray will require different tools, players, encoders and amplifiers.

    Maybe so, but there's no reason Encore can't adapt to include the new hi-def formats, is there? If memory serves, once upon a time Premiere couldn't handle the new (now standard) DV video format. Adobe made the appropriate changes under to hood so that it can.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 10, 2006 10:19 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Jim.

    Different book type.
    Different specs.
    Different author core
    Different application completely.

    Even Sonic do not have any HD authoring apart from DVD Producer HD, which merely allows WMV-HD to be included in the ROM folders.
    There
    i are no HD authoring applications available yet, as the specs are not finalized.

    When they are, Sonic will be first.
    Toshiba have some beta HD DVD packages, but they are not generally available.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 10, 2006 2:59 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >There are no HD authoring applications available yet

    I don't believe that's so. HD DVD movies are slated to be released this month in conjunction with some players. I have to believe there are at least professional apps out there currently available to at least the Hollywood studios.

    And even if Encore would require a complete overhaul (like Premiere Pro) to include some type of HD support, it's still something Adobe can do isn't it? Sort of an Encore Pro if you will?
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 10, 2006 7:44 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    29 March 2006

    In a statement released by the company Ulead Systems said: "The company will remove Blu-ray Disc-related functions from the recently released version of Ulead DVD MovieFactory. Ulead will disable direct recording to Blu-ray Disc by removing the BD DiscRecorder module from the product. Blu-ray Disc authoring will also be removed from the DVD MovieFactory 5 authoring module. Ulead DVD MovieFactory 5 retains support for authoring video to the high-definition HD-DVD format".

    Given the above, I don't believe it will be all that difficult for Adobe to add support for one or both HD formats to Encore. Let's hope we see a 2.5 with that support sometime this year.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2006 1:13 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Jim.

    I'm not too sure quite how to put this, but it is NOT "easy" to implement this.
    This ius a completely different set of specs.
    It is subject to all sorts of different licensing agreements.
    (Hence, I suspect, why it is all pulled from Ulead - Sony will NOT allow other people to do what they do, and avoid paying royalties)
    It is a different authorcore.
    The authorcore for EncoreDVD is for, er, DVD - not BRD or HD DVD.

    It will be a different application - if & when, I suspect, either of them actually manage to avoid going the same way as Sony's last venture, UMD (also being withdrawn for Movies).
    No company can afford to pile in the countless millions required to develop an independant, spec compliant version - hell, the specs are not actually available yet. Nobody really knows what they are.
    These heavily touted HD DVD releases are being done entirely on beta software from Toshiba, who are the main driving force behind it.
    There is still no real release date for any BRD material.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2006 5:40 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >I'm not too sure quite how to put this, but it is NOT "easy" to implement this.

    Fair enough. I'll change "easy" to "possible".

    >It is subject to all sorts of different licensing agreements.
    (Hence, I suspect, why it is all pulled from Ulead

    First, only Blu-Ray was pulled, and that only because the final specs aren't yet finalized (as you suggested). That support will be put back once the spec is finalized. And HD-DVD support is included in MovieFactory 5. Even Nero supports the burning side of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

    I still say it's entirely possible for Adobe to include support for the new HD formats, and I still believe they should get that done within the next few months.

    >There is still no real release date for any BRD material.

    50 First Dates Sony Release date: May 23, 2006
    A Knight's Tale Sony Release date: May 23, 2006
    Crash Lionsgate Release date: May 23, 2006
    Fifth Element Sony Release date: May 23, 2006

    And there's more.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2006 7:44 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    While we debate on if/when Adobe will have a new/revised product to author in HiDef, here is an article and discussion from PC Magazine

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1948027,00.asp

    I certainly have no idea which format is going to "win" this battle, or when the market will be "mature" enough for computer burners to be reasonably priced, but Adobe is, after all, in business to sell enough products to make back development costs AND make a profit

    To me, that means there will not be a HiDef authoring product from Adobe... be it new or an upgrade to Encore... until at least a year from now, and maybe even longer

    http://discuss.pcmag.com/forums/1004314254/ShowPost.aspx

    PC Mag readers are, for the most part, in the "early adopter" crowd... and the comments I see say that many (most?) of them have been burned before, and are now going to wait for the format wars to end and a winner emerge before committing to new technology

    That means, on the authoring side, a bit longer wait for a product to emerge that supports either standard

    It is, of course, possible for Adobe to write a program that supports both standards... but that takes even longer, so I stick by my estimate of at least a year (maybe longer) before there is an authoring application from Adobe
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2006 11:31 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    John.

    Finally - the voice of reason!
    I came to exactly the same conclusions myself.
    I've also been talking to a lot of the smaller hardware manufacturers, and none of them will be even developing any HD players until (if?) there is a clear winner.

    Jim.
    Adding HD to Encore would be a disaster. It is a DVD authoring application, not an HD authoring application. It will be a different type of disc, and the 2 are NOT compatible.
    DVD-Video is written to the correct book type, published by the DVD Forum. HD DVD will be a totally different book type, and not even Sonic are going to try & mix the two.
    If you seriously have work for HD content right now, then use what is already available - WMV HD, AKA VC-1 - this can be added to the ROM folder now. It's PC only, but that is the least of the troubles ahead.
    And don't believe those BRD release dates either. No specs = no players, and even the much touted PS3 has been put back again & again due to serious BRD problems.
    Ulead & Nero are NOT authoring applications either. They are burning tools, not development tools.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2006 9:35 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >the 2 are NOT compatible.

    >I stick by my estimate of at least a year (maybe longer) before there is an authoring application from Adobe

    Dudes, Ulead did it. Maybe Adobe won't do it as quickly as I'd like, but I still say they could (and should) offer this upgrade ASAP.

    >Ulead & Nero are NOT authoring applications either.

    Nero is a burning application, but MovieFactory 5 is an authoring application which has this to say, and I quote...

    "PureHD Authoring & Output - Produce next-generation HD DVD discs with professional menus, to play on high-definition playback devices"

    >No specs = no players

    There may be work left to be done, but you can see which parts of the spec are complete at the link below.

    http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section-13470/Section-13910/Index.html
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2006 9:42 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >Adding HD to Encore would be a disaster.

    Here's what the Blu-ray disc association, the group that develops and oversees the technology, has to say on that issue.

    "Although Blu-ray Disc offers these advanced codecs as well, the disc has such high capacity that publishers can still use the MPEG-2 encoding format at bitrates up to 54 Mbit/sec. As MPEG-2 is the de-facto standard used in almost any industry involved in digital video (DVD, HDTV, digital broadcast), many authoring solutions are available. Chances are high that a full line MPEG-2 encoding suite is already available, which can be used with no or minor adaptations to encode High Definition content for Blu-ray Disc. [Boldface added]"

    Sorry guys, I just don't believe the technological hurdles are as large as you make them out to be. Now, economical hurdles are another matter entirely. But even on that front, if Ulead can offer it for $40, there's no excuse for Adobe not to make this available as an upgrade at Encore's current price ASAP.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 12, 2006 3:24 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Adobe never does anything ASAP. :)
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2006 10:19 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    I don't know what you mean by the statement that HD DVD (or Blu-Ray, etc.) is a totally different standard, that Encore would not be able to handle it. (First of all, how do you guys know that, are you engineers by chance?) I'm not a software programmer, but can't you just add the code necessary to make any piece of existing software do the same thing? Why couldn't there be added presets for new Encore DVD projects -- one for standard DVD, one for HD-DVD (with all its book settings, architecture, etc.), and one for Blu-Ray (with all its necessary settings)? Whether it's two pieces of software or one, why couldn't you just put the two groups of code in one software? Just like Premiere Pro and After Effects are resolution-independent -- you can import anything, at any pixel size, any screen shape, any frame rate, from any device, whatever...and output it at any resolution, frame rate, etc., even to a film recorder. Software is software, you just put whatever specs need to be put in the code. A software/hardware engineer can correct me if I'm wrong on this in relation to DVD.

    That said, I do agree with John that WHEN Adobe implements high definition DVD authoring of any sort (NOT IF - it will have to to compete with the overall move to HD production/distribution), it will be later than sooner becaue Adobe tends to focus on the less expensive (relatively speaking) ways of implementing high end technology for the video production industry. (Think of the latest Production Studio package and what they've achieved.) They're not Sonic, but they're not consumerish junk either.

    By the way, NEC has recently announced they will be making an internal HD-DVD burner in April (or May, I guess whenever the spec is finalized). (See http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/03/10/nechddvdr/index.php?lsrc=mwrs s)
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2006 1:13 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Dale.

    What we mean by "a totally different standard" is exactly that.
    HD DVD is not even similar to DVD-Video.
    It is
    i a completely different animal.

    Any authoring packages for either HD DVD or Blu Ray will be available when they are available, and there are no plans - even at Sonic Solutions, to just "add the code" to an existing DVD-Video authoring package.
    It is not going to happen.
    The cost alone would be prohibitive - have you any idea what the licensing costs are, and how much this would ramp up the cost of
    A - development
    B - Retail pricing
    This would at least quadruple the retail price of Encore, all for a "feature" that has not become a true standard yet, and is not likely to for many years to come - if ever.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2006 8:54 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    "This would at least quadruple the retail price of Encore, all for a "feature" that has not become a true standard yet, and is not likely to for many years to come - if ever."

    If that's the case, then why bother with all this move toward "affordable HD" (i.e., HDV, etc.)? Does this mean HD is only destined for the elite network broadcaster? What is the point of shooting with your HDV camcorder (there are more and more models coming out) if you can't put it to a final destination for clients (i.e., DVD)? If the software and hardware are too expensive for doing this (and as you say, probably always will be), then there will never be a market for high-def weddings, high-def small budget corporate (or even big-budget corporate because even the big companies like to use DVD playback), high-def you-name-it on the small budget. End users (clients) are not going to go out and buy HDV decks just to be able to play back your finished videos; they're going to want to use DVD's or something similar for compactness and ease of use. High-def DVD production hardware and software MUST come down in price. There IS a market for it. (Heck, just think of videos for trade show displays, etc.)
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2006 9:25 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    If I may put words in Neil's mouth - I don't think that he was saying there won't ever be hi-def DVD; there just won't necessarily be a standard for it. Think Beta/VHS.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2006 9:51 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    At least not yet. "Yet" is the key word here for all of this, I think.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2006 10:47 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Apples DVD Studio Pro 4 appears to be able to do both SD and HD DVD. On their site it's the big selling point. Obviously there's no way to burn an HD-DVD disc yet but it seems to be compatitible with the HD-DVD spec.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2006 10:57 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Apple's DVDSP
    i cannot author HD DVD or Blu Ray.

    What it
    i can
    do is use WMV HD - in exactly the same way Premiere Pro can, and you can also do this in EncoreDVD if you add the files to the ROM folder.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2006 11:05 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    In the interest of clarification, check http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/

    If I may quote:

    Showcase your HD content in HD resolution with DVD Studio Pro 4....

    Author in SD or HD

    Showcase your HD content with integrated, scalable H.264 encoding that allows you to fit HD content on DVDs using existing drives and existing media. Create HD on DVD versions from existing SD projects. Go from native HDV to HD on DVD with no recompression from Final Cut Pro and save time by encoding HD and SD in one Compressor batch.


    Nowhere on that page is support for HD-DVD actually stated. They state that DVDSP4 supports HD content on a 1DVD. This is not the same thing as support for the HD-DVD format...
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2006 11:08 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    In the interest of clarification, check http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/

    If I may quote:

    Showcase your HD content in HD resolution with DVD Studio Pro 4....

    Author in SD or HD

    Showcase your HD content with integrated, scalable H.264 encoding that allows you to fit HD content on DVDs using existing drives and existing media. Create HD on DVD versions from existing SD projects. Go from native HDV to HD on DVD with no recompression from Final Cut Pro and save time by encoding HD and SD in one Compressor batch.


    Nowhere on that page is support for HD-DVD actually stated. They state that DVDSP4 supports HD content on a DVD. This is not the same thing as support for the HD-DVD format...
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2006 12:26 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    I'm not claiming to really know but they talk of the "1.0 HD DVD Video standard content specification" on this page regarding an update.
    http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/dvdstudiopro4updates.html
    I'm assuming this is the official DVD forum HD-DVD spec.

    If it doesn't support real HD-DVD then they are at least a bit misleading with the use of the "HD-DVD" logo on the initial dvd studio pro page. And reading posts like the one below don't help ("next generation of dvd delivery" says HD-DVD to me, not just puting hd content on a disc ala windows media).

    http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/9060/
    "The latest upgrade introduces the next-generation of DVD delivery with HD DVD support for both H.264 and HDV and advanced authoring options like Alpha Transitions and multiple video and audio tracks."
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2006 12:45 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >The cost alone would be prohibitive - have you any idea what the licensing costs are

    No, but I don't believe they are as prohibitive as you make them out to be. Ulead's MovieFactory 5 can already author HD-DVD content and sells for $40 retail. Not just WMV-HD, but true HD-DVD authoring, according to them.

    $40, Neil.

    Adobe can do it. But I do not buy that whether they do or not and how soon depends upon the excuses you're making for them in this forum. That Ulead has already done it is proof of that.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 20, 2006 1:20 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Jim, what Ulead is offering for HD is vapor-ware at the moment. Read this release carefully:

    http://www.ulead.com/dmf/hd_burn.htm

    Nowhere does it say that they support HD-DVD or Blu-ray formats today.

    Speculation like this is fine, but remember- right now, it's still speculation. I myself cannot comment on possible future directions of Encore publicly, but I can say that Adobe makes all announcements regarding the direction of Encore, and not anyone on the forum.

    Regards,
    Joe
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 21, 2006 8:51 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Gentlemen, a little common sense. When HD and Blue ray are finally a released spec, and when HD burners are actually sold in PCs' , based on past history, it will take about Adobe about to a year to include it in thier products.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2006 8:14 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Another thing to be wary of - AFAIK, the "HD" in HD-DVD stands for High Density, and when written with the hyphen refers to both the coming standard of physical discs and the format of their content.

    The HD DVD being referred to without the hyphen looks to me like High Definition content dumped onto either a standard DVD or one of the new discs - and NOT an official format at all. Easy to mix up.

    It appears to me the Ulead is taking advantage of this confusion to imply that they are ahead of the game by offering a phoney standard. I like some of Uleads products, and I think it's kind of neat that they have something to offer, but I do not expect this kind of thing from Adobe.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 24, 2006 3:17 AM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Craig.

    Good point.
    AFAIK, there is no hyphen in HD DVD - the "official" format from the DVD Forum is HD DVD and the acronym means exactly what you say HD-DVD does.
    (High Density DVD)
    HD-DVD is not a recognised definition (pun unintentional).
    There is no official format called "High Definition DVD".

    See http://www.dvdforum.org/mi-HD_DVD.htm
    and
    http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Forum_HD_DVD_Universal_24.pdf
    And http://www.dvdforum.org/33scmtg-resolution.htm
    (Where the HD part is defined as "High Density")

    Again, AFAIK HD-DVD is not a true acronym, and is a misuse.
    "High Definition" refers to the Video encoding used, and the display standards being 720i, 720p, 1080i & 1080p.

    Again we see far too many "standards" all protecting vested interests.
    All that is going to happen is a confused public, as there appears to be no real "Universal" standard, or even definition of standards!
    In short, it's a bloody mess.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2006 3:13 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >what Ulead is offering for HD is vapor-ware at the moment.

    While Ulead customers will need to add the burning pack to actually burn HD content, that's not the point. HD DVD authoring is currently available for about $40.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2006 3:16 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >HD-DVD is not a true acronym, and is a misuse.

    Ulead's site is not using the Hyphen, so this is a moot point.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2006 3:18 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >there are no plans - even at Sonic Solutions, to just "add the code" to an existing DVD-Video authoring package.

    Wrong again Neil.

    Sonic & Avid Announce Blu-ray Disc Authoring System
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2006 3:23 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    I don't think that qualifies as "just adding code to an existing package". ;)

    Lounge...? :p
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2006 3:23 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    A couple of folks are working very hard to defend Encore's missing HD capabilities, but as there are now two software packages offering some type of HD authoring solution, and one of them for less than half a c-note, it is patently obvious that Adobe can do it. The technological and economic hurdles just do not fly as an excuse.

    Personally, I think Encore's fans should start squawking now for Adobe to get it done very, very soon.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2006 4:34 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >HD DVD authoring is currently available for about $40.

    Jim, I don't know why you don't understand what I'm trying to tell you. Perhaps I'm not explaining it well? I'll try to be as clear as I can be: Ulead is not offering HD DVD authoring today. HD-DVD is more than just HD-encoded video- there are data structures for navigation, interactivity, etc. What they are trying to do with their announcement is to give the impression that they have a product ready. In reality, other than maybe Sonic, nobody has an HD-DVD authoring package available yet.

    And I agree with others, this is better suited as a lounge topic, since so much of what we are talking about is still up in the air.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2006 8:31 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    Sorry, I think I was backwards about the HD-DVD / HD DVD thing.

    One of the ongoing points of debate with EncoreDVD is whether or not it should take non-dvd spec files, and the prevailing argument from this side of the court has always been that you should ONLY feed Encore with DVD-Video spec assets - and Encore in return should ALWAYS produce DVD-Video to spec.

    Hate to get so very very blunt here, but DVD-Video does not have High Definition content within it's specifications.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2006 6:16 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >Ulead is not offering HD DVD authoring today.

    According to them, they are. Granted, you can't burn them yet. But you can author them.
     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2006 6:19 PM   in reply to (Don_Blish)
    >DVD-Video does not have High Definition content within it's specifications.

    Maybe, but both the HD DVD and Blu-ray specifications do allow for high definition content. The point is that it is clearly technologically and economically feasible for Adobe to add these abilities to Encore, and soon.
     
    |
    Mark as:
1 2 Previous Next
Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)