Adobe Community: Do not buy Golive 9!

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Do not buy Golive 9!

Feb 28, 2008 3:02 AM

At the risk of being expelled:

I use Golive since version 4 and I bought the Upgrade to 9 recently to find out that it really is not usable for a professional webdesigner:

Bugs, bugs, bugs (changing values in the inspector does nothing to the code sometimes, creating a maillink does not automatically complete it to "mailto:..." anymore - at least not always.

CSS for table/tr/td attributes is just causing a mess: get yourself an overview in a complex table layout with dozens of ds3-, ds4-, ds5-, ds33-classes! impossible: and since golive does not write the code you enter in the inspector you're lost within minutes. It is offending to change this behaviour without:
- giving lognterm users a possibiliy to switch to the "old way"
- doing it at least properly (an issue the Golive team had problems ever since)

The way it handles FTP synchronizations is for dummies - but not for pros! sorry!

Selecting items in the layout is (aaaargh) a drag!

Did Adobe ever made a single website with this tool? I really doubt it!

What can I do? Ask for a refund? Bugreporting all day long? No, just swallow my disappointment and wait for a better tool (which dreamweaver definitely isn't).

Where is the competition? Can't wait!

2310 Views 29 Replies Latest reply: Nini Tjäder, Apr 11, 2009 1:53 AM

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1. (JonFritz),

Feb 28, 2008 5:52 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Well, that IS what they were going for. GL9 is not an upgrade to GL CS2. It is a re-positioned stand alone "Starter" application with Dreamweaver being Adobe's "Professional" application. Unfortunately Adobe still feels the need to mislead customers on the GL pages of their website by calling it an "upgrade" when it is in fact very much a downgrade.

Dreamweaver IS worth learning (currently I use both GL CS2 and DW Studo 8.) and it is a very strong tool for web design. However I still use CS2 for the majority of my work as it "feels" much more Adobe-esque. I'm sure future versions of DW will begin to cross over from the Macromedia interface.

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2. (Alex_Braendle),

Feb 29, 2008 2:43 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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While it is offending not to inform users properly who used golive for years about the positioning of GL9 in the market, it is still topped by the fact, that this "starter"-version is so immense buggy that it will leave "starters" helpless and lost, since they can't even edit (fix!!!) the code.

I am so tired of this seesaw of Adobe's web apps! The only real cool Adobe Product I use is Photoshop. Golive and Dreamweaver do not deserve being called modern webeditors, sorry,no way! The GUI of dreamweaver is one of the worst I ever saw. It looks and behaves as run as an ugly Java-Applet.

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3. (Marc2_Klein),

Mar 10, 2008 11:32 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Dear Alex,

I agree entirely with you.

The changes and questionable features in GoLive 9 make it VERY complicated and frustrating for users who have used and built websites for the past decade by using prior versions of Adobe GoLive 9 (e.g. GoLive CS2, CS1, GoLive 6 etc)

On my opinion, this is not an software upgrade. Repositioning a product even though a company is entirely aware of their targeted audience is nothing more than a bad "excuse". Adobe was entirely aware of the market they were focusing. This tool is meant for web professionals AND novice users. Adobe has run several ads in the past which reflected a clear focus on web professionals.

Furthermore, GoLive 9 does no longer support web standards. I have made several layout tests by using web standards compliant css codings. The layout view is an absolute mess and not at all what GoLive users were used to in the past by editing their layouts in wysiwyg mode.

I am wondering why Adobe has made all these changes.

I recently discovered a posting of a long-term GoLive user on this Adobe forum who has to maintain 50 different website projects for his clients. The user reported that he has SEVERE problems by editing his GoLive website projects in GoLive 9. Switching to Dreamweaver would cost this GoLive user and web professional a huge amount of time and money. And of course, his clients are not willing to pay him the costs for the extra time he would have to invest.

Paradoxically, I am no longer able to find the posting of this user on this GoLive forum.

graphically & sincerely,

Marc Klein
www.pixel-templates.com

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4. (Marc2_Klein),

Mar 10, 2008 1:58 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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--- Quote from Alex Braendle ---
CSS for table/tr/td attributes is just causing a mess: get yourself an overview in a complex table layout with dozens of ds3-, ds4-, ds5-, ds33-classes!
--- Quote from Alex Braendle ---

The auto-css (mis)feature in GoLive 9 increases the file size even of rather simple table formatted web pages. This is a total css source code "overkill" that GoLive 9 is adding here. A simple html page of a document size of 20-30kb that GoLive users have created in Adobe GoLive CS2 or earlier versions can easily become over 100-150kb (or even worse) in GoLive 9.

You do not need to be a css guru to know that these css auto attributes inserted and added by GoLive 9 does not make a web page more efficient nor faster in speed loading or rendering.

Thus, the argument from Adobe that css layouts are smaller does not apply here.

The Mac OS and GoLive CS2, CS1 and earlier versions are well-known for its drag & drop usability and simplicity.

In GoLive 9 however, I had great difficulties to find out how to place a simple image in the layout mode! The most simple tasks in GoLive 9 have become tremendously complicated.

What Adobe wanted to create by releasing GoLive 9 (which is definitely not to be interpreted as an update) is a competitive product to Apple's rather new web application named "iWeb".

I suggest Adobe renames Adobe GoLive 9 to "iWebToo" (sold as a separate product), fixes all the bugs in GoLive CS2 and releases an intel ready version of Adobe GoLive 8.5. And then, let's see which software sells most ;)

Adobe should have a look at some of my web templates on http://www.pixel-templates.com

All of them were created in Adobe GoLive CS2.

Just in case, they might not have noticed ;)

graphically & sincerely,

" I create, therefore I am "

Marc Klein

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5. (Marc2_Klein),

Mar 10, 2008 2:40 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I think I just had a déjavu by browsing the honest! reviews from honest GoLive CS2/CS1 users.

It just happened again and it's happening life as I am browsing this forum.

Here is the proof:

10/03/08 23:18
http://www.pixel-templates.com/golivecs2_leopard_23h18m.pdf

10/03/08 23:24
http://www.pixel-templates.com/golivecs2_leopard_23h24m.pdf

Ahem ... I do not appreciate when people spy on me as I am browsing the web.

---
I recently discovered a posting of a long-term GoLive user on this Adobe forum who has to maintain 50 different website projects for his clients. The user reported that he has SEVERE problems by editing his GoLive website projects in GoLive 9. Switching to Dreamweaver would cost this GoLive user and web professional a huge amount of time and money. And of course, his clients are not willing to pay him the costs for the extra time he would have to invest.
---

And? Where is this posting of another loyal GoLive CS2 user?

graphically & sincerely,

Marc Klein
http://www.pixel-templates.com

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6. Nate Baldwin,

Mar 10, 2008 3:31 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Marc - proof of what? Not sure I follow. If you're referring to post #1 that's missing from your second screenshot, that's just how the forums work. If you've already viewed a thread, it just shows the last (2?) posts (it's a preference setting, I believe), but you can hit the "previous", "next" or "show all messages" links to see the rest. That may not be what you're referring to, in which case I'm pretty much lost :-)

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7. (JonFritz),

Mar 11, 2008 4:44 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I remember that post, I'm sure it's just buried somewhere in a long thread. The Forum Search doesn't have the most powerful engine built into it.

As for your proof .pdf's, I'm pretty sure you just need to click the "Show all messages" link. I haven't seen Adobe edit content here in the years that I have used the forum, most of the time they don't even remove offensive language.

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8. (JonFritz),

Mar 11, 2008 4:53 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Is this the thread you are talking about? (about half way in, posting by Kurt Triffet?)

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?128@@.3bc423ab

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9. (Alex_Braendle),

Mar 13, 2008 6:56 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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The joke is that I find myself getting suspicious when reading about new Adobe products: i.e. read today about AIR and Flex - I wouldn't buy these products without scouring the internet for some reviews, feedback from neutral users.

Adobe is endamaging themselves with such marketing-driven misleds of their customers.

After permission marketing there may be a next thing called reliance marketing.

I'm really fed up with all this "grand-new-better-easy-oneclick"-hails. Get your stuff fixed!

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10. (humberto_olea_montero),

Mar 13, 2008 7:10 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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It a pity, Adobe was a great enterprise when they worked with respect for the user.
Lástima. Adobe fue una gran empresa cuando respetaba sus usuarios.

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11. (Alex_Braendle),

Mar 13, 2008 7:36 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I cannot believe it! I just set up a site with templates (I've done this before many times in earlier Golive versions).

In the template there is one editable region:

<div id="barContent">
Content here.</div>

in the dependent page there isn't after I pasted in some text:

<div id="barContent">
<b>Consulting: IT Governance ganzheitlich verstehen</b>
<p>Uns ist wichtig, dass alle Beteiligten in Ihrem Unternehmen IT Governance ganzheitlich verstehen. Deshalb bedeutet Consulting für uns, unsere praktischen Erkenntnisse an Sie zu vermitteln; damit Sie auf unseren Erfahrungen aufbauen können. Und mit Ihnen pragmatische Vorgehensweisen und Lösungsansätze zur Etablierung einer reifen IT Organisation auszuarbeiten.</p>
</div>

I cannot work like this! Any small company would be sued to ruin for such a crap! I want my money back!

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12. (g_ballard),

Mar 15, 2008 9:42 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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>> I want my money back!

Hee, hee...

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13. (kurt_triffet),

Mar 26, 2008 12:32 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I maintain about 25 sites in GLCS2 right now, and I will probably not go to DW (even though i own it) until either, they integrate the terrific GL site management tools/functionality and improve the interface, or, that I get forced to because of eventual OS incompatibilities.

Time is money, and I can create and maintain website quickly and easily in GL.
I've tried to look at DW, but it's still too much a Macromedia techie product.

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14. LRK 2,

Mar 26, 2008 2:30 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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> I maintain about 25 sites in GLCS2 right now, and I will probably not go to DW (even though i own it) until either, they integrate the terrific GL site management tools/functionality and improve the interface, or, that I get forced to because of eventual OS incompatibilities.

> Time is money, and I can create and maintain website quickly and easily in GL.
I've tried to look at DW, but it's still too much a Macromedia techie product.

Well said Kurt. I'm in the same boat, although I do use DW when I need to but then take the site back to GoLive for management, for the same reason... saves time!

Can't wait to see what will happen with the next version of DW. If the interface and time saving tools of GoLive are not incorporated into it, I will be very disappointed. But I'm hoping that Adobe won't allow GoLive's good features go to waste.

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15. stickleback,

Mar 28, 2008 5:48 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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If we are very lucky we will get a sleek hybrid which has all the cool features we love in GL.

If we are very, very lucky, we'll get a new version of GL called DW CS4

The name and the user base was very attractive to Adobe - GL is, in my humble opinion a better tool (and I say this not just because I "like" using it better - it just works smoother)

so keep all your fingers and toes crossed....

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16. (Alex_Braendle),

Apr 7, 2008 11:02 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Gave Dreamweaver another try. While it is better in the way it writes code and is more stable it is stone age regarding site management, javascript coding, page handling, PHOTOSHOP-handling (Smartobjects)

one simple example of DWs ugly 90ties GUI: the update window that appears when I change a template and save it: tiny, not resizable, scrollbars and a huge font, no way to check some files "off",...

Status quo:
- Golive is the better tool concerning efficiency
- Golive has been crippled in CS3 (a dsRxx class for each table-cell ????)
- Golive has still many bugs

There is room for a better future, guys! Take the chance and do it right, Adobe! WHY don't you ask us, the pros? We're working with your tool all day long. We know every little dusty corner of your apps. Why do't you listen?

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17. (George_Pytlik),

Apr 9, 2008 8:48 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I too was lead down the garden path by Adobe's sales pitch that GL9 was an "upgrade." More like an upgrade joke. I've ditched it because it is absolutely worthless. Thanks a lot Adobe -- for the first time since starting my Adobe relationship with PageMaker version 1, I feel I wasted my money on an Adobe product.

DW is better, but still a horrible interface. All that in-your-face modality makes it really hard to work with. The automated Javascript is better, but the interface is so clumsy you just don't want to use it. Back to GL 8, which is a primo example of superb user interface, every bit as good as Photoshop.

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18. (Alex_Braendle),

Apr 14, 2008 3:26 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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But GL 8 ist soo slow on an intel mac compared to GL 9 - worlds! And it, too has very ugly crashes and bugs.

This would be the chance for Adobe to make ONE superb product out of DW and GL8 - will they clutch the straw?

However, giving 329 CHF (which is approx. 329 USD) for the "upgrade" to GL9 from GL8 is the amount I spent - and I could bite my a** for it! What a waste of money and what a bold attitude from Adobe towards its customers!

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19. David Hollis,

Apr 21, 2008 9:14 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I've been using GoLive for some time. I was pleased that it was part of the CS2 suite, and disappointed to find it isn't part of the CS3 suite.

So, I chose to upgrade to GL9.

I entered the GL9 serial no - fine! I had to enter the CS2 serial no, and this wasn't accepted!

Customer services say that it is because my version of GLCS2 was part of a suite, and not standalone! I can't upgrade form a suite to standalone!

So, it's bad enough that Adobe have taken GL out of the suite. There is a significant fee to upgrade CS2 to CS3, AND THEN upgrade GLCS2 to GL9. But to expect you to purchase a FULL product? Ridiculous!

Look, it's in the name! GLCS2 is/was GLCS2 whether bought on its own, or as part of a suite!

There's nothing on any of the product pages to warn you about not being able to upgrade.

I have taken the matter to the UK Government's Trading Standards.

David

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20. David Hollis,

Apr 22, 2008 12:41 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I've now heard from Adobe Customer Services, and apparently there is a way out of this impasse.

David

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21. (Alex_Braendle),

Apr 24, 2008 4:03 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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The situation is a mess:

GL8 is too slow on intels
GL9 is unusable because of its ridiculous css-ing of everything (table width,...)
DW is more stable, fast BUT: Hey, it's stoneage!!
The Site Management of DW CS3 is worse than Golive's ten years ago!
The Linkchecker doesn't work: try to fix broken links in the resultwindow if you want to screw up your site totally and inrepairably.
The UI is out of this universe - looks like a java-application
There is no intelligent Photoshop/Illustrator/PDF-Integration

Is there no help for pros? No Softwarecompany to make it right?

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22. (JonFritz),

Apr 24, 2008 4:38 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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GLCS2 runs great on my new iMac with Leopard and ran beautifully on Tiger previously.

Where/when is yours bogging down so much? There might be something you can do to fix it...

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23. Nate Baldwin,

Apr 24, 2008 9:29 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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I wouldn't say GLCS2 is lightning fast on my system (Intel mac mini with Tiger), but it's no slower for me than DW CS3, and really not noticeably slower than it was on my previous G4 machine (but granted, it was a slower machine).

But part of it will likely boil down to the features being used. I never really use Smart Objects, grids, actions, Components, etc.

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24. (ken_krimmer),

Apr 29, 2008 7:18 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Kompozer at sourceforge isn't perfect but an option... Dreamweaver is/isn't a better product than GL, just depends on who you talk to... Maybe they stopped work on GL9 once they had their sights on Macromedia because it seems like it's unfinished with the crashes and all... Adobe quality control has gone down hill quite fast...

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25. (humberto_olea_montero),

Apr 29, 2008 2:10 PM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Well, the dream is over! no more golive.
[edited] adobe!

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26. (perry_macman),

Jun 14, 2008 9:29 AM in reply to (Alex_Braendle)

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Adobe really ticked me off. I have been a GoLive user since version 2 and loved it. I knew all the rumors that Adobe was going to drop GL. Well, I was using GL 6 and had given up trying to master DreamWeaver. Hated it with a passion. I called Adobe with a question about GL 9. I figured that GL9 would get me by for a year or two. I was elated when the sales person said that there was a very good chance that Adobe would not abandon GL. So that very day I download GL9 ($170.00). So you can imagine how frustrated I was when I saw that Adobe was going to drop GL9. I had no support for GoLive CS so by purchasing GL9 I would at least have support for a while if needed. Adobe just pulled the rug out from under us GL users. This smarts. And to think of all the money I have spend on Adobe products over the years. Yes, Adobe has alienated me BIG TIME! I've feel I've been RIPPED OFF.

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27. dj-emir,

Apr 10, 2009 4:16 PM in reply to LRK 2

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I agree with you, GoLive has better tool integration, functionalty and a much friendlier more adobe like interface than Dreamweaver.

I too tried using Dreamweaver CS2 several times to manage my past GOLive sites due to some serious crashes that keep happening with Golive 8.01
Dreamweaver is simply clumsy. It's interface does not display my website properly so I literally do not get a WYSIWYG experience when working with my website in Dreamweaver.

I admit I have not tried the latest versions of Dreamweaver because I refuse to upgrade to something I never wanted in the first place. And I refuse to keep supporting a company that has lost it's way and stopped supporting it's past products and customers.

Now if Dreamweaver could start integrating the tools and abilities of GOLive and make it more like a real ADOBE product that would be great. If it worked like GOLive I'd whole heartedly would support it. I'd have bought CS4 by now but am waiting to see what they will do for GO Live aficionados like ourselves that know what a powerful website development program can really do.

The Inspector pallet is one of the most powerful tools in GOLive and really made a difference for editing a website. The broken links tool was also a powerful ally when dealing with large websites. With real PHP, CSS and dynamic content auto writting capabilities GOlive would have become the end all be all of website design software. I think Adobe went with Dreamweaver because more people had already previously owned Dreamweaver so they chose the more popular product. But as we all know sometimes the more popular choice isn't the right choice. They didn't drop Photoshop just because they acquired Firworks, so why drop GOLive rather than fix it and make it better?

The only problem I had with GoLive was the headaches from constant crashes when editing some of my larger websites. They could have fixed it and eventually it would have become the new standard for website design software, instead now we have a substandard. Oh well...

DJ Emir
www.djemir.com
Mixtapes

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28. Kath-H,

Apr 11, 2009 12:27 AM in reply to dj-emir

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Re. the original post - of course you can't buy it now anyway.

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29. Nini Tjäder,

Apr 11, 2009 1:53 AM in reply to dj-emir

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If your only reference is DWCS2, look again. The adobefication of DW is only starting in CS4 and could not have started earlier. Admittedly there are a lot of things still missing in DW that GLCS2 had (do not compare with GL9 as that is a completely different thing). What makes me not wanting to migrate to DW today is the lack of a site-manager GoLive-style (you really do not get the same overview of a site in SW as in GL) and that MenuMachine can still not be used with DW. Apart from that the differences are not all that big (except for the terminology which makes you stumble and have difficulties finding what you are looking for).

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Do not buy Golive 9!

Feb 28, 2008 3:02 AM

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