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Thank you for this great idea. This is something that we have thought about and will continue to discuss internally.

-Adam Altman

Catalyst Engineering

I'd definitely like to see this as well. While Flash Builder might be something to dabble in, as a graphic artist and Flash AS3 programmer, I'd love to be able to take this into Flash, something I'm familiar with, and do all my extra coding from there. Most of the time I'm prototyping in Illustrator or Photoshop, but I do the bulk of my work, especially coding, from Flash.

I can understand that logic. However, having both MXML and AS3 as two separate coding setups for Flash doesn't make logistical sense. Just the costs of the support alone can make it prohibitive. Perhaps it's time for Adobe to focus on MXML and fold AS3 into it. MXML already has a lot of the AS3 like stuff in there. As a programmer, I need to focus on one or the other to maximize my time and productivity. Having to focus on too many languages just slows down the process and introduces too many human errors.

There are a lot of designers that use Flash and it is powerful to a degree, but there are a whole lot more that haven't touched Flash and are intimately involved in Illustrator and Photoshop and don't want to use new tools to do that same thing. Artists tend to be creatures of habit and don't like to stray from what they are comfortable with. Flash Catalyst will allow them to use a familiar interface to create something they thought they would never be able to do before.

I guess the point I was trying to get across is the most designers don't want to do code at all... period. Most don't enjoy the computer experience either. I'm not saying all, there are quite a few that do, but most don't. Anything that can give them what they want without looking at 'raw' code, they will jump into right away. As easy as AS3 for designers might be, it's not what they want. If they are forced into it, they will do it, but they won't enjoy it and will complain pretty much all the time when something doesn't work as expected even if the error is their own.

Either way, since Flash Catalyst is a MXML product, not an AS3 product, I believe the name causes too much confusion. I'm expecting a Flash product, not a Flex product. Flash to me is AS3, not MXML. MXML is the Flex framework. While Flash might have more cache name wise, it's going to confuse a lot of people who will quite naturally think they can bring their Catalyst project into Flash and you can't. If Adobe doesn't want to integrate AS3 into Catalyst, and at his stage that probably wouldn't be a good business decision just based on costs, I highly recommend that the two products be renamed Flex Catalyst and Flex Builder, which is what it's named now.

While Flex Builder does include some AS3, it also requires MXML coding, something I am not familiar with. As for the states and the like of Flash Catalyst, there are extensions that allow me to do some of the same things, but certainly not on the scale of Catalyst. Still, buttons and the like are fairly easy to handle in Flash Professional without having to do a ton of code.

Still, I know Flash AS3. I would like to do rapid prototyping with Flash Catalyst. Then I would like to bring in the Catalyst file into Flash and do the extra AS3 work there, in an environment I know and understand. I don't know Flex Builder and I don't know MXML, so why would I want the file to go somewhere I'm not familiar? Why should I have to learn one more coding language just to get my project done?

It's all about economies of scale. In my personal 'economy', I have only so much time and money to invest and I'm pretty much at my limit. The learning curve of Catalyst for me is extremely small but the rewards would be quite large. The learning curve of Flash Builder, on the other hand, would be quite large and would reward me very little. Since I already know Flash and enough AS3 to do my work, why can't I have Catalyst produce an FLV file as well so I can use it in the environment I've already invested in.

To me, since Catalyst and Builder use the MXML format, Adobe is just using the Flash name before each because of the value of the name Flash. In reality, this is Flex Catalyst and Flex Builder, not true Flash. In my humble opinion, that's going to cause quite a lot of confusion for those who work in Flash Professional and frustrate them that they can't use a Flash creation program with their Flash Professional program.

Let's clear something up, shall we.

I can code. I know how to code.

I can design. I know how to design.

Learning one more code for me isn't that hard and I'll probably do it. However, I'm in the extreme minority.

The majority of my clients are artists. They design and work extremely non-linear. They have Flash Professional since it came with their CS3 or CS4 suite. They know just enough to get into it and do some very small things. They don't, and let me very clear here, and WON'T learn another code. It was like pulling teeth to get them to use Flash Professional.

The rub is that now that they do use it and they see Catalyst, they want Catalyst and Flash Professional to work together. You won't get a compromise from artists. That's what makes them artists. Period.

Adobe isn't blind here. They understand artists. That's why that created Catalyst. But it's not 'Flash', it's 'Flex'. Yes, MXML has AS3 in it. But if you think artists are going to even take a whiff of it, then I think you are clearly misjudging their way of doing things.

As it stands, I have over 200 clients that I work with and have over the past 17 years. Over half are artists/designers. When I showed them Flash Catalyst, they got so excited, it was downright embarrassing. Of the ones who knew Flash and a small portion of AS3, they immediately started thinking about doing their final tweaks in Flash Professional. When I explained that they would not be able to, but they could get Flash Builder to tweak the code, I could swear I saw the blood rush out of their heads and they got the cold sweats.

Artists hate coding. Period. They don't even like having to use computers quite frankly. Give them some paper and some pencils and they are in heaven. Put them in a chair and give them a mouse and the complaining will start.

That's the reality.

Lastly, for people like me, there are economies of scale that I have to deal with. While learning MXML won't be a huge learning curve, it will be one. It takes time. Time spent learning one more freaking code system is time spent not earning money.

So, when will I learn it? Probably in my spare time, which means I spend less time with my family. Less time decompressing from my work and more time stressing over learning more stuff. More time in front of a computer than outside doing things with my kids. I certainly can't take time away at work doing it or I'm not earning a living.

That's the reality.

You can pose all the situations and solutions and say it's not that hard and all that. To that I say 'congratulations to you', but that's not how the majority of artists work and if this product ships without support for Flash Professional, you will get a great deal of confusion and a lot of frustrated customers, mostly artists.

Is it fair to want your cake and eat it too? Maybe... maybe not. But reality is rarely fair. Usually it just stands up in front of us blocking our way and slapping us across the face for being way too naive.

If Adobe ships this product with the Flash name, you are going to hear a lot of complaining if they can't get it into Flash Professional.

That's the reality.

I've been a designer/artist for 15 years, and some of what you say is true. Designers/artists hate to code. We resent any time taken away from our focus on design, so any tool that exists to allow us to bypass code and design visually, we jump at.

I have plenty of experience with Flash, and as a tool for designing interactive websites and applications, it falls way short. Flash wasn't originally designed to build websites and applications, and so the process is very non-intuitive.

Catalyst appears to be the version of Flash I always wanted. It's shortcomings at this point are purely due to its youth, and as the product matures from beta to 1.0 to 2.0 and beyond, I think it will be able to do many of the things we are asking for on this forum.

Which is why I think it will distance itself from Flash, and won't have interactivity with it beyond being able to import Flash files into Catalyst. Right now artists need to suck it up and learn Flash Builder until Catalyst matures. Believe me, I don't wish to learn Flash Builder, but pulling Catalyst into Flash to make edits seems like putting a band-aid on an amputated leg.