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Multiple digital signatures

Sep 5, 2008 2:41 AM

I am trying to create a document that can be certified as ready for review and signing and then circulated for multiple signatures .

The document( a standard operating procedure ) must reviewed and signed by 5 or 6 people and I have to be able to prove it has not been changed other than being signed but I can't figure out how to make signing the form fields as an allowable action.

Here is what I'm doing now

create document in word and convert it to a pdf in adobe acrobat 8 pro on windows xp
in the form menu click create new form
click through and use the current document to create form
In Live Cycle designer I :
Add the digital signature fields
then I'm lost

This seem the closest to what i want to do but this seems to complicated
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/livecycle/articles/multiple_sigs_tip.html

I don't think I need a policy server but I'm not sure.

I just need to invalidate signatures if someone uses acrobat to edit the document text and images after it has been certified and/or certified and signed.

Thanks

John
 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2008 1:17 PM   in reply to (John_Daniel)
    Assuming there are no other form fields needed except for the signature fields, the following should work:

    1. Create the PDF from Word.
    2. Open in Acrobat. Add the signature fields using the Forms > Add or Edit Fields (Acrobat 9) or equivalent in earlier versions. No need to go into Designer for a simple workflow like this one.
    3. You can then save the document and start it around for signing, but I would suggest one additional step:
    4. In the first signature field, certify the document (right click Certify with visible signature). In the certify Document dialog that comes up, under "Permitted Actions after Certifying", select "Form fill-in and digital signatures".

    5. Then each signer adds a signature and sends the document to the next person.

    Any changes to the document other than additional signatures will invalidate the signatures.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 10, 2008 11:55 AM   in reply to (John_Daniel)
    Certifying the document lets you allow subsequent signers to apply their digital signatures without Acrobat seeing the signatures as changes and invalidating your signature.

    Philip -- thanks for the quick directions.

    - Andy McGavin
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 20, 2009 1:56 AM   in reply to (Andy_McGavin)

    Does this technique of creating multiple signature boxes using the Digital Signature Tool, then certifying the document in the first signature box to be signed and then signing the rest work in Acrobat Professional 8?  I must be missing something because I can't seem to make it work.  I've even tried using the "Place Signature" command but that immediately insists that I sign the signature box immediately.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 20, 2009 5:20 PM   in reply to Kok-Yong Tan

    You cannot use multiple digital signatures, since later signatures will invalidate the previous signatures.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 20, 2009 5:46 PM   in reply to MichaelKazlow

    Then why does Phillip Levy indicate that it can be done and Andy Gavin indicate that he's done it?  I'm confused.

     

    In fact, I'm even more confused when I see a similar method outlined in the book "Adobe Acrobat 8 in the Office" by Donna L. Baker published by the Adobe Press where she creates a PDF Package with lots of combined digitally signed PDF documents with a cover page which has *TWO* signatures on it by a CFO (Ms. Mittal) and a CEO (Mr. Baker), one signing after the other before returning the doubly-signed (even if you ignore the two separately signed PDFs in the PDF Package from the two branch managers in the example) to the PDF Package maker.

     

    It doesn't make sense for a document to disallow multiple signings because in practical applications, documents get signed multiple times before they are formally accepted (e.g., first by the preparer to certify the document and its authorship, then by a reviewer, then by approvers up the chain of command, etc.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2009 3:56 PM   in reply to MichaelKazlow

    Hi Michael,

     

    I’m not sure what you are trying to convey, but you can most certainly add multiple digital signatures to a PDF document without invalidating the previous signature. If the document is not certified, then in Acrobat 8 and earlier, a subsequent signature causes the previous signature to be valid with changes. In Acrobat 9, subsequent signatures alone will not display as changes. In all cases, if the document is certified, and the certifying signature allows for subsequent signatures, then the approval (regular) signatures do not display as changes to the document.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2009 5:03 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Do subsequent signatures after the certification signature get invalidated in Acrobat 8 even if the certification signature permits comments and form fields (a signature being a form field) to continue to be entered?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2009 5:10 PM   in reply to Kok-Yong Tan

    All of the signatures will be valid in Acrobat\Reader 8.x.  I've attached a demo file you you can see for yourself.

     

    Steve

    Attachments:
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 23, 2009 6:26 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Yes, but you created the doc in Acrobat 9 from what the properties tell me.  Can I do the same in Acrobat 8 Pro?  I seem to be trying and failing with a "There is no PDDoc associated with this CosDoc" error during the validate phase when I re-open the document in Acrobat 8 Professional (which perplexes me no end).  Googling that string returns only two hits with no relevance.  And googling for PDDoc or CosDoc gives me lots of entries in the developer area (which doesn't help me, a user, one whit).  Any clues where I went wrong in the following procedure in Acrobat 8 Professional:

     

    1.  Use the Digital Signature Tool to create multiple signature form fields.

     

    2.  Select the first one and then certify (instead of signing) it, specifying that comments and signatures are to be allowed.  (This seems to work fine and I get the blue ribbon icon showing up.)

     

    3.  Select the next one and try to sign it (since it is no longer possible to "certify" it as it has already been certified in step 2).  As soon as I try to sign it, the blue ribbon icon of the certification becomes a question mark even though the signature gets a checkmark.  All subsequent signatures then invalidate the prior signatures.

     

    I'm wondering if I the upgrade from Acrobat Professional 7 to Acrobat Professional 8 screwed something up because I vaguely remember it working fine in Acrobat Professional 7 (I recall just installing CS3 over CS2 to get Acrobat Pro 8).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2009 10:41 AM   in reply to Kok-Yong Tan

    Hi Kok-Yong,

     

    The short answer is the document you are trying to sign is corrupt. The fact you are seeing the problem when trying to sign is not related to the signing process, but rather it comes up there because the relationship between the signature fields (which are just a special type of form field) and the underlying document structure has been broken. Although there are multiple ways to break the document structure, an example of what might cause this is the computer crashing right as the file is being saved.

     

    If you reply to this message and attach the file I can take a look and try to see where the corruption lies, or see if it can be fixed.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2009 1:27 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    I have a similar issue with a PDF that is NOT corrupt.  I can duplicate the issue by creating new documents for testing.  I created a two page document in Adobe 9 Pro that has a total of 4 digital signature fields. I selected the "Extend Features in Adobe Reader" option and saved the form.  I then sent the form to a user who has Adobe Reader 8.1.  They were able to open the PDF, use the Topaz signature pad to create the signature but there is not an option for certifying the signatures.  I can only select this option if I use the Acrobat Standard or Pro...I do not have this option when using Adobe Reader to sign the document.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2009 1:36 PM   in reply to Bobby Hollowell

    Hi Bobby,

     

    The ability to add a certifying signature is limited to Acrobat, it is not an enabled feature in Reader. The purpose of the certifying signature is for the document author to attest to the integrity of what they created and to allow the author to control what can be done to the document (e.g. whether or not you can add a comment). Since you cannot author a document in Reader there is no reason for Reader to be able to apply a certifying signature.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 31, 2009 8:48 AM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    That makes sense...I wish I had the option so that the signatures weren’t showing as invalid...Adobe should really allow you to hard code that option into the signature field.

    Since you answered that question, maybe you can help with another...same form, created a button at the bottom to "Submit" the form in an email.  The button works but all it does is create the email with a simple subject line and I'd like to be able to specify the subject line based on the contents of one of the fields in the form.  Example:  The form has a field for the users last name, I'd like either the form to be renamed when it is sent and call on the contents of that field to supply the name, or for the subject to be pulled from that field.

    I have seen a forum post on here about that but there was no resolution for it...any guidance would be appreciated.  The forum I have seen so far is http://forums.adobe.com/thread/336558

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 31, 2009 11:56 AM   in reply to Bobby Hollowell

    Hi Bobby,

     

    I’ve attached a file to this post with an example of what you are looking to do. Whatever data gets entered into the text field will show up in the subject line of the mail message when you click the submit button.

     

    The mail issue aside, what I’m really concerned about is the notion that adding a digital signature will invalidate the previous signature. An invalid signature is displayed with a red X, either on the signature field (Acrobat 8.x and earlier), or in the document message bar and on the signature panel (Acrobat 9 and later). Is this what you are seeing?

     

    Thanks,

    Steve

    Attachments:
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 31, 2009 12:00 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Hi Steve,

     

    Sorry for the delay:  I got inundated at work.

     

    I generate the PDF file afresh each time from a word processing program (Pages from the iWork '08 package) on my Mac (OS X 10.4.11) and there has been no system crash, nor a crash while saving the document.  I use the PDF generation drivers that are built into the operating system itself.   Then, to the generated PDF, I add  another PDF into it (all this before I even add signature blocks, etc.) and that other PDF is fully readable and this combining of documents doesn't results in any errors either.

     

    Unfortunately, since the document itself is a company confidential document, I can't release it for inspection.  I'll see if I can duplicate the situation with a test document.

     

    Kok-Yong

     
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    Jul 31, 2009 12:27 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    The Attachement isn't available...

     

    Attachments:
    • mailtoExample.pdf (47.1 K) QUEUED
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 31, 2009 12:58 PM   in reply to Bobby Hollowell

    Hi Bobby,

     

    The forum software is weird that way. I can see the file is queued up, but I don't know when it will get posted. I don't have any control over when it becomes available for download. Hopefully in the not too distant future, but it will become accessible at some point.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 3, 2009 12:34 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Thanks Steve, this works like a champ but the only portion this java script doesn't do is attach the completed form to the email and I can't figure out the proper syntax for including 2 fields in the Subject.  So if I have 2 fields, one for "Applicant Last Name" and one for "Applicant First Name", the synax for getting both fileds in the subject so the subject says "Access Request Form for Doe, John".  Your assistance is TREMENDOUSLY helpful!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 3, 2009 1:00 PM   in reply to Bobby Hollowell

    Hi Bobby,

    I’d suggest looking at http://livedocs.adobe.com/acrobat_sdk/9/Acrobat9_HTMLHelp/wwhelp/wwhim pl/js/html/wwhelp.htm?href=JS_API_AcroJS.88.1.html#1515776&accessible= true for help with JavaScript. When you get there, if you don’t see the Navigation tree in the left panel, be sure to click the Show Navigation button in the upper left corner of the web page. From the Navigation Panel click on the JavaScript API link and you can see all of the main topics. Alternately, you could click on the Search button, search on "mail", and find examples of what you are trying to do.

    Were you able to see the JavaScript I assigned to the button? If not, select the View > Toolbars menu item and then select Advanced Editing from the fly-out menu. Click on the Select Object toolbar button and then right mouse click on the button and select Properties from the pop-up menu. Select the Actions tab from the Button Properties dialog and then click on (highlight) Run a JavaScript. That will enable the Edit button which you need to click on. That’s where you can see the example and make your changes.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2009 9:07 AM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Yes, I was able to see the code and this link is full of good information but I don't have the requsite knowledge of Java for any of this to make much sense.

     

    /*var myFieldData = this.getField ("APPLICANT LAST NAME");

    var mySubjectName = (myFieldData.valueAsString);

    app.mailMsg(false, TEST@TESTEMAIL.COM, "", "", "Access Request for"+mySubjectName, "Please process the attached form for acess.");

     

    This is the code you sent that I altered, the "APPLICANT LAST NAME" field is one of the 2 I'd like to pull so that the Subject appears as "Access Request for Doe, John".  The code doesn't allow for the PDF to be sent with the email.  In looking at the information at the link you refernced, it seems the "mailDoc" command is what I need but this command specifies a the To: field as well as the Subject. 

     

    Ideally I don't want the users to interact with the mail window, once they click the submit form button, I'd like to have the the two fields refernced above to be pulled from the form, added to the subject, the form attached to the email and it just get's sent. 

     

    It seems I'm very close to gettingt hs to work but I'm not sure if the syntax of each of these bits of code work together or not or how to put them together to make it work.

    topmostSubform.Page1.Submit_Button::mouseUp - (JavaScript, client)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2009 9:36 PM   in reply to Bobby Hollowell

    Hi Bobby,

     

    Replace the line app.maiMsg with the following code:

     

    this.mailDoc({

     

            bUI: false,

     

            cTo: "foo@example.com",

     

            cSubject: "Form submitted by "+mySubjectName,

     

            cMsg: "The completed PDF form is attached."

     

        });

     

    Obviously, you will need to change the cTo string and modify the subject and message as you see fit.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2011 2:21 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Steve,

     

    In post #9 you provided a file (certMultiSigs.pdf) that shows multiple signatures on the same document without invalidating one another.When I look at the document properties it says signing is allowed, but when I pull up the Sign & Certify actions under the Tools menu the Sign Document option is greyed out. Why is this and how to overcome it? (I'm having a similar problem on a document I'm generating.)

     

    BTW, I'm using Adobe Acrobat X Pro.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Tyson

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2011 5:15 PM   in reply to tyson_clark

    Hi Tyson,

     

    Regarding the file I previously posted, there are no empty signature fields left to sign. If you were to go into the Signature Panel, expand Rev. 2 or Rev. 3, and then select "Click to view this version" you would end up rolling the document back to before the last signature was added. You could then Save that copy, open the newly saved copy and you would be able to sign it.

     

    My guess is your next question will be why doesn't Place Signature work? It's because the very first signature was a Certifying signature and one of the features of using certifying signatures is it allows the document author to prevent changes to the PDF file, thus preserving the documents visual integrity. When I certified the file it blocked adding any other form fields to the file and the Place Signature function requires the user to be able to add a signature field (and a signature field is just a special purpose form field) where ever they choose.

     

    As far as the file you are creating, I'm not sure why you can't sign it. If you are creating the file in LiveCycle Designer, you cannot add fields on the fly to XFA documents. If you could give me the steps you follow to generate the doc i might have an idea as to why you cannot sign, or better yet, add the file as an attachment to your reply and I can take a look.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 8:34 AM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Steve,

     

    I'm having a similar problem with multiple digital signatures.  See my problem below:

     

    We are using Adobe Acrobat 8. We want to use the encrypted digital signatures feature.

     

    We need two approvers to digitally sign a document without invalidating the document. I looked at this topic information on the Adobe support website and followed their instructions on multiple signatures and apparently you must certify the document first and permit digital signatures during this process, see print screen below. Here's the steps we took and where we got hung up:

    • I saved a .pdf file to a shared directory folder. (the approval document)
    • I certified the document as accurate using Adobe and saved/closed the document
    • I asked the 1st approver to access the certified document in the directory I saved it and digitally sign the document.
    • When the 1st approver opened and tried to digitally sign the document, the signature option was grayed out and not possible.

    Are there some settings that should be adjusted to make this possible? Any help would be appreciated.

     

    Thanks,

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 11:10 AM   in reply to cunninj76

    Hi cunninj76,

     

    My guess is the the 1st approver is using Adobe Reader and you did not Reader enable the file. Open the certified file in Acrobat 8 and then select the Advanced > Enable Usage Rights in Adobe Reader  menu item. Click the Save Now button and save the file back to the shared directory and ask the 1st approver to try again.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 11:45 AM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Thanks Steve,

     

    But I don't seem to have "Enable Usage Rights in Adobe Reader" in the

    Advanced menu options.  Also, the 1st Approver has Adobe 8 Standard.

     

     

     

    From:

    "Steven.Madwin" <forums@adobe.com>

    To:

    cunninj76 <jamie.cunningham@basf.com>

    Date:

    10/03/2011 01:11 PM

    Subject:

    Re: Multiple digital signatures Multiple digital signatures

     

     

     

    Re: Multiple digital signatures

    created by Steven.Madwin in Acrobat Windows - View the full discussion

    Hi cunninj76,

     

    My guess is the the 1st approver is using Adobe Reader and you did not

    Reader enable the file. Open the certified file in Acrobat 8 and then

    select the Advanced > Enable Usage Rights in Adobe Reader  menu item.

    Click the Save Now button and save the file back to the shared directory

    and ask the 1st approver to try again.

     

    Steve

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 12:15 PM   in reply to cunninj76

    Hi Jamie,

     

    So much for my guess. One thing, you need Acrobat Pro to add Reader Usage Rights, you can't do it in Acrobat Standard. That explains why you didn't see the menu item.

     

    What it doesn't explain is why the first approver can't sign. Are you sure that the file isn't marked as read only when viewd on the common directory? What if the person trying to sign as the 1st approver copies the file to their local machine and trises to sign?

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 1:36 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Hi Steve,

     

    This didn't work either... do you want me to send you some print screens

    or any other references?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Jamie M. Cunningham

    Engineering Support Specialist II

    Phone: 409-960-5205, Fax: 409-960-5333, E-Mail: jamie.cunningham@basf.com

    Postal Address: PO Box 2506, Port Arthur, TX, 77643

     

     

     

    From:

    "Steven.Madwin" <forums@adobe.com>

    To:

    cunninj76 <jamie.cunningham@basf.com>

    Date:

    10/03/2011 02:16 PM

    Subject:

    Re: Multiple digital signatures Multiple digital signatures

     

     

     

    Re: Multiple digital signatures

    created by Steven.Madwin in Acrobat Windows - View the full discussion

    Hi Jamie,

     

    So much for my guess. One thing, you need Acrobat Pro to add Reader Usage

    Rights, you can't do it in Acrobat Standard. That explains why you didn't

    see the menu item.

     

    What it doesn't explain is why the first approver can't sign. Are you sure

    that the file isn't marked as read only when viewd on the common

    directory? What if the person trying to sign as the 1st approver copies

    the file to their local machine and trises to sign?

     

    Steve

    Replies to this message go to everyone subscribed to this thread, not

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    Start a new discussion in Acrobat Windows by email or at Adobe Forums

    For more information about maintaining your forum email notifications

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2011 11:03 AM   in reply to cunninj76

    Hi Jamie,

     

    Thanks for the file. Before I get into what is going on in your case here's a bit of background.

     

    With a regular approval signature you get two thing. One is you assert who actually signed the document (known as non-repudiation because the person can't deny their signature). The other thing is proof of document integrity, that is, if the document has been modified it will invalidate the signature.

     

    With a certifying signature you add in protection to prevent the document from being modified. This is to help sustain the integrity and fidelity of the document. When you certify a PDF file you have one of three options to protect the document. The first is no changes allowed. With that option no one (not even the author) can modify the document at all. The next option is form fill-in and signing. As an aside a signature field is just a special purpose form field so signing a document is just another type of filling in of a form field. The third option is to allow commenting along with form fill-in and signing. Regardless of which option you select you cannot modify the underlying structure of the file, and adding a form field would do just that. With the place signature option the signer gets to add a form field (in this case a signature form field) anywhere on the document they like, and because adding form fields to a certified file is verboten the option is disabled in the menus and tools.

     

    As the document author what you need to do is add the signature fields to the document before you certify the file. Adding the certifying signature should be the last operation you do before posting the file to the shared drive. Then the other approvers will be able to sign.

     

    On another note, when an approver goes to sign the document they will get an alert if the certifying signature isn't trusted. Because you are using a self-signed digital ID to add the certifying signature ever one else that is going to sign will need to add a copy of your public-key certificate into their Manage Trusted Identities list with the trust setting set to both "Use this certificate as a trusted root" and "Certified documents" if they don't want to see the alert.

     

    Steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2011 2:29 PM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Hi Steve,

     

    Thanks for the information. I had two approvers stamp the document before

    I certified it. Since I was one of the approvers, I added the 2nd approver

    to my Trusted Identities list.  The signatures still had a checkmark and

    warning on them and when the warning details were view it read " Signature

    is valid, but there were subsequent changes to the document"; however,

    when I added a third signature it had no warnings.  I then tried to

    certify the document at the end but the option was grayed out.

     

    We don't necessarily need the document certified and the signatures with

    the warnings may be ok for our purposes, since the document will be a PDF

    and approvers can't alter it except with the mark-up tools anyway.

     

    I really appreciate your help, if you have more insight on the above

    please send it my way.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Jamie M. Cunningham

    Engineering Support Specialist II

    Phone: 409-960-5205, Fax: 409-960-5333, E-Mail: jamie.cunningham@basf.com

    Postal Address: PO Box 2506, Port Arthur, TX, 77643

     

     

     

    From:

    "Steven.Madwin" <forums@adobe.com>

    To:

    cunninj76 <jamie.cunningham@basf.com>

    Date:

    10/04/2011 01:03 PM

    Subject:

    Re: Multiple digital signatures Multiple digital signatures

     

     

     

    Re: Multiple digital signatures

    created by Steven.Madwin in Acrobat Windows - View the full discussion

    Hi Jamie,

     

    Thanks for the file. Before I get into what is going on in your case

    here's a bit of background.

     

    With a regular approval signature you get two thing. One is you assert who

    actually signed the document (known as non-repudiation because the person

    can't deny their signature). The other thing is proof of document

    integrity, that is, if the document has been modified it will invalidate

    the signature.

     

    With a certifying signature you add in protection to prevent the document

    from being modified. This is to help sustain the integrity and fidelity of

    the document. When you certify a PDF file you have one of three options to

    protect the document. The first is no changes allowed. With that option no

    one (not even the author) can modify the document at all. The next option

    is form fill-in and signing. As an aside a signature field is just a

    special purpose form field so signing a document is just another type of

    filling in of a form field. The third option is to allow commenting along

    with form fill-in and signing. Regardless of which option you select you

    cannot modify the underlying structure of the file, and adding a form

    field would do just that. With the place signature option the signer gets

    to add a form field (in this case a signature form field) anywhere on the

    document they like, and because adding form fields to a certified file is

    verboten the option is disabled in the menus and tools.

     

    As the document author what you need to do is add the signature fields to

    the document before you certify the file. Adding the certifying signature

    should be the last operation you do before posting the file to the shared

    drive. Then the other approvers will be able to sign.

     

    On another note, when an approver goes to sign the document they will get

    an alert if the certifying signature isn't trusted. Because you are using

    a self-signed digital ID to add the certifying signature ever one else

    that is going to sign will need to add a copy of your public-key

    certificate into their Manage Trusted Identities list with the trust

    setting set to both "Use this certificate as a trusted root" and

    "Certified documents" if they don't want to see the alert.

     

    Steve

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    Oct 5, 2011 2:47 PM   in reply to cunninj76

    Hi Jamie,

     

    A certifying signature has to be the first signature applied to the document. You can add approval signatures post certification, but not the other way around.

     

    Beginning with version 9, if the only change to an uncertified document is a subsequent signature you won't see the warning that changes have been made to the document, but because you are using version 8 that still occurs. However, if the document is certified and the only changes are subsequent approval signatures you don't get the warning, even in version 8.

     

    All of this is predicated on using digital signatures. If the approvers are using stamps, that is not really a digital signature, but rather an annotation. Annotations are anything that sits on top of the actual PDF layer such as comments (sticky notes), stamps, drawings or mark-ups. Because they are not digital signatures (even if the stamp is a representation of a wet ink signature it's still not a digital signature) you can certify the file after it's been stamped.

     

    Steve

     
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    Dec 27, 2011 7:50 AM   in reply to (John_Daniel)

    We are having a similiar issue. In my office, we are using Adobe Acrobat X Pro to combine PDF's into one document. After combing all the docs, we are adding digital signature blocks where necessary. There is no requirement for us to sign the document. We then distribute the docs for signatures using the DISTRIBUTE option, utilitzing the "work flow" that Adobe X has. The issue is that when we send out a doc with digital signature blocks, we can't have more than one person sign the doc using the digital signature blocks we have created. Ideally, if we have 10 signatures required, one person will sign 9 while another person will sign only one. Can anyone advise us on how we may accomplish this?

     
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    Jan 17, 2012 1:37 AM   in reply to (John_Daniel)

    I have a similar but not identical problem, always belonging to multiple signatures. I have a form with multiple signature fields with javascript that, when the user signs, populate a Date field. In addition this javascript shows the other signatures in a sort of "signature workflow".

    The form was created with Acrobat 9 and now we have moved to Acrobat X.

    The javascript caused a warning, with the old Acrobat version, but the signatures were valid and modifications were shown. Now the signatures are considered invalid. What changed? How can be managed?

    Thank You in advance

     
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    Sep 17, 2012 11:30 AM   in reply to enrico68

    Does anyone know whether one can sign a pdf with Adobe X Pro and then forward it to the next person for signing without saving the document on your pc? An end user would prefer that the documents not have to be stored on each person's computer after signing for security reasons.

     
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    Sep 17, 2012 12:58 PM   in reply to kerakatera

    The file has to be saved somewhere. You could save it to a shared network drive, but the signing process requires the the file be saved to disk before the signature is computed. When digital signatures were first introduced into Acrobat signing did take place in memory, but that became a security risk so we had to err on the side of safety and require that signatures be created to files written to disk. The problem with signing out of memory is it is too easy for someone (in this case the bad guy) to introduce a command to change the file in the middle of the signing process in memory. For instance a piece of text that says "I agree to pay $100" gets changed to "I agree to pay $1000". The signer doesn't see the change until it is too late. By forcing the file to be written to disk it eliminates the memory highjacking problem and provides a more secure signing environment. If there were no bad guys we could have left the signing process the way it was, but alas...

     

    Steve

     
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    Sep 19, 2012 4:14 AM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    Thanks so much for your reply. I thought that it was something like that. My users insist that when they open a pdf in their web browser (Internet Explorer) they can sign a document without saivng it. They did show me that they can do this, but I can't duplicate it as I don't have rights to access the particular files that they are using. In this case it would be saved to the temporary Internet file. In the browser is the signature still handled by Adobe Acrobat? If so is there a different mechanism that is used?

     
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    Sep 19, 2012 10:50 AM   in reply to kerakatera

    Hi,

     

    It looks like the file isn't being saved, but it is, only to a temp file. Initially, when you view the file in the browser the file is loaded into memory. If the option "optimize for fast web view" was selected when the file was created, when you open the PDF in the browser just the first page is downloaded and displayed, then the rest of the file is downloaded, but everything is in memory. When you start the signing operation the file is written to disk, it just that the signer doesn't see that action. After the signature is created if the signer wants to send the file they are still required to do a save operation and give the file a name, but what they are really doing is making a copy of the signed temp file.

     

    Steve

     
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    Sep 22, 2012 3:51 AM   in reply to Steven.Madwin

    That is great. Thanks so much for the information. So I guess my solution is to figure out an uncomplicated way for them to open it in their web browser. They may like that option.

     
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