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Do I need to re-build my site using css?

Jul 21, 2009 5:59 AM

Having recently upgraded to DW CS4 and taken advantage of the great 30 days free with Lynda.com offer, I now realise the importance of css.

I built my website using tables and wonder now if I have to re-do the entire site?

Please can you take a look and let me know: http://www.herefordequestrian.co.uk

Many thanks

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 6:14 AM   in reply to sally44

    Simple answer, yes.

     

    My advice (if you wish a similar layout, present one is 'overcrowded'), is to start with a three column centered design (possibly use one of the dreamweaver supplied templates).

     

    PZ

     

    Added content - Here is a link to a series of video tutorials on adapting the DW templates to your needs - http://tv.adobe.com/#vi+f1481v1004

     

    Message was edited by: pziecina

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 6:58 AM   in reply to pziecina

    Simple answer, no. There's no law about it and it looks fine. Learn on the next one, it's easier from scratch.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 7:24 AM   in reply to Kath-H

    Sorry to disappoint you with the no law against, but this is a U/K based company and unfortunately our laws on website accessibility go a little further than section 508, (this site failed all tests).

     

    Even though it is very unclear and finding specific information on website accessibility specifically (this is the catch 22 in the U/K), is difficult, the following article from the U/K's DDA might be helpful -

    http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-accessibility /uk-website-legal-requirements.shtml

     

    PZ

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 7:38 AM   in reply to pziecina

    Different issue, surely. And that article seems to be written by someone trying to sell their services. I doubt that css = accessible and tables = inaccessible.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 7:40 AM   in reply to sally44

    No, you don't. You can get rid of font tags and use css to define your text, without having to go the whole hog and get rid of tables. I still say it would be easier with a new site to use css for positioning. Using it for fonts is relatively easy.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 7:43 AM   in reply to Kath-H

    Better to go to the horse's mouth rather than a commercial site - you can read the priority guidelines here: http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/full-checklist.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 8:04 AM   in reply to Kath-H

    That is the problem with the U/K's law on accessibility there are so many of them and none specifically covers websites, except through general terms, so finding anything to make the situation 'clear', for the web designer/developer is difficult.

     

    Even deciding who is responsible in ensuring that a website is accessible is unclear, in one prosecution it was the designer/developer that was found liable, then in the next it was the company who was responsible.

     

    To complicate the problem even further the european commision on human rights even have their say on accessibility issues now.

     

    PZ

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 8:33 AM   in reply to sally44

    Converting your sites design is not as complicated as you may first think, and it will bring many benefits.

     

    My recommendation is to first forget about validation and compliance, and start with a basic structure similar to the layout you require, then at the end of each design/development session validate and check your site. This way you are not presented with a list of problems and fixing them will be much simpler.

     

    The following links may help -

    General web design (this is to the css section but if you click on the logo help on most subjects is available) -

    http://www.wpdfd.com/issues/70/css_from_the_ground_up/

     

    Plug-ins for your FF browser, the developers toolbar is a must, (you can then check accessibility, validate your code etc.) - http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/07/21/13-firefox-add-ons-for-web-d evelopment/

     

    General tutorials and reference - http://www.w3schools.com/

     

    PZ

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 8:46 AM   in reply to sally44

    Hi Sally, you will find free video tutorials on this at the following link http://www.helpvid.net/tutorials/dreamweaver/dreamweaver.html

     

    Stay Safe

    Mark

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 9:06 AM   in reply to helpvid

    Just to be clear - you can easily make your site legally accessible without changing from the table structure. I think it's a very good idea to learn the use of css for layout but trust me, no-one is going to put you in jail if you don't change your site's current structure

     

    And yes to the web developer extension for Firefox, it's invaluable.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 9:11 AM   in reply to Kath-H

    Go here for the accessibility report on your home page - it's not as bad as is being made out, and this will show you what you need to fix in order to comply. It definitely does not fail all tests.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 11:21 AM   in reply to Kath-H

    Obviously Kath you do not live in the U/K (also comes under eec compliance regulations), where section 508 is only the beginning and eec regulations state that the site should comply where possible, with the WAI guidlines priority 1 and as much of priority 2 as possible, this includes the section on tables which states: -

     

    'Do not use tables for layout unless the table makes sense when linearized. Otherwise, if the table does not make sense, provide an alternative equivalent (which may be a linearized version)'.

     

    For the full U/K & EU report see -

    http://www.cynthiasays.com/mynewtester/cynthia.exe?rptmode=2&url1=http %3A%2F%2Fwww.herefordequestrian.co.uk%2F

     

    PZ

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 11:37 AM   in reply to helpvid

    Hey Mark,

     

    I've seen you reply to several posts in these forums lately, all of them with the exact same answer. 

     

    you will find free video tutorials on this at the following link...

     

    I'm not going so far as to say you're spamming this forum.  I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here.  But I will say it would be a lot more helpful if you provided a direct link to videos you think will answer the OP's questions. 

     

     

     

    Nancy O.
    Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    Web | Graphics | Print | Media  Specialists
    www.alt-web.com/
    www.twitter.com/altweb
    www.alt-web.com/blogspot.com  

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 11:53 AM   in reply to pziecina

    Jumping to conclusions again. I do, as it happens, live in the UK. My reading of the situation is different from yours.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 12:01 PM   in reply to Nancy O.

    hey Nancy,

    thanks for the advice, I don't want to be breaking any rules, just trying to help out while generating traffic to my website.  I have tried to cut and past a direct link, however the form dose not support this.

     

    If I add a link through the box provided will it show in alongside the message?.

     

    Mark

    http://www.helpvid.net

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 12:20 PM   in reply to sally44

    I totally agree with Paula (PZ).  If this site is important to you, I think you could make huge improvements in appearance, accessibility and efficiency by rebuilding it with standards compliant CSS and X/HTML.  As it stands now, your home page uses a ridiculous number of redundant embedded styles like these:

     

    .style236 {font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000000; }
    .style240 {font-weight: bold}
    .style241 {font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #990000; }
    .style242 {font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: bold; color: #990000; }
    .style243 {font-family: Verdana}

     

    Plus you have many validation errors shown here:

    http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hereforde questrian.co.uk%2F

     

    To make short work of removing old font and table tags from legacy sites, get Tag Stripper - a free DW Extension by Massimo Foti.  http://www.massimocorner.com/  Go To Productivity > Tag Stripper 2.0

     

    Good luck,

     

    Nancy O.
    Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    Web | Graphics | Print | Media  Specialists
    www.alt-web.com/
    www.twitter.com/altweb
    www.alt-web.com/blogspot.com

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 12:27 PM   in reply to helpvid

    Mark, maybe this will help?

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/416480?tstart=0

     

    Typically, I just type into the message http://example.com/some_page.html and it works great. 

     

     

    Nancy O.
    Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    Web | Graphics | Print | Media  Specialists
    www.alt-web.com/
    www.twitter.com/altweb
    www.alt-web.com/blogspot.com

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 21, 2009 12:39 PM   in reply to Kath-H

    Good, then you will be aware of this -  http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/government_it/web_guidelines/past_cons ultations.aspx, and the fact that the eec comission has recommended it be made a legal requirement for all commercial websites within the eu by end of 2010, (I should imagine there will be a time limit on how long after).

    Note the mention of AA of the W3C guidelines.

     

    PZ

     

    Last note: This is my last post on this subject, and for me unless Sally wishes further info or help, this subject is now closed.

     

    Message was edited by: pziecina

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 18, 2011 6:59 AM   in reply to sally44

    Do you guys have any suggestion for my website. I am planning to migrate my current website (http://www.astorweisslaw.com/) to wordpress. Any suggestion for improvement is highly appreciated.

     
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