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texdang
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SumTotal is ending course with passing score on quiz

Nov 30, 2009 7:39 AM

I am using Captivate 3 and SumTotal 8.2. I have a quiz with 10 questions and a passing score of 90%. Once you reach the passing score, SumTotal displays the "you have completed the course" pop-up and will not let you get a 100% score. I have even published with the score and screen completion option. Is there a fix for this that let's the user get to the results screen and possibly get a 100% score?

Thanks!

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 30, 2009 11:49 AM   in reply to texdang

    Hello,

     

    What did you choose: Complete/Incomplete or Pass/Fail? I'm not using SumTotal, but for our LMS I have to choose Complete/Incomplete, not Pass/Fail. What were your Manifest settings? You'll have to set the mastery score to the same value as in passing score in the Quiz Settings.

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 30, 2009 12:47 PM   in reply to texdang

    Hello,

     

    It seems logic to set it to Pass/Fail, but I had the same experience, so I changed it to Complete/Incomplete, and the student can now finish the assessment until the end. Since the score is passed to the LMS when completed, it still can be marked by the LMS as Passed. Just another issue I could mention: if you allow the student to have several attempts, and he passed on his first attempt, he cannot retry to have his score raised. I had some students who were not happy about it because they wanted to improve their score.

     

    Lilybiri

     
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    Nov 30, 2009 12:53 PM   in reply to texdang

    I'm glad that this problem is solved. Could you please mark the question as answered (for the sake of other users reading through this thread)?

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 1, 2009 12:35 AM   in reply to texdang

    Hi again,

     

    No, I thought the issue was cleared. So, even with Complete/Incomplete activated, the user cannot finish the Quiz? Another question: what are the Pass/Fail settings (Quiz Preferences, Pass or Fail) for 'If passing grade'. The default action is and should be for you: 'Continue to next slide'. Perhaps you changed this? And for Settings: 'Show score at end of quiz' or do you not want to show the score?

     

    How do you control the navigation in the Quiz: with the default buttons such as Submit?

     

    It is not always easy to find the solution because I cannot see you Quiz settings.

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 1, 2009 8:56 AM   in reply to texdang

    Hi Danny,

     

    But in what you answered here, I'm still seeing, under Reporting, the setting Pass/Fail where it should be Complete/Incomplete (as mentioned in a previous posting). Or was this a typo?

     

    I would try to change the Action on Pass to 'Go to next slide'. And when failed, to which slide do you jump? Because this action will be used for each Question slide where the user fails.

     

    Do you show the 'Retake button'?

     

    Hope we will find the solution,

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 1, 2009 10:15 AM   in reply to texdang

    Hello again,

     

    There is some misunderstanding. To achieve what you want, in our LMS I have to choose Complete/Incomplete. It is normal that the LMS will say that the Quiz is completed if the user got through the whole assessment. But it will also be reported as Failed (the score is sent), so the user will be able to Retake the quiz (hope you provided the Retake button) on the same moment or later on (LMS keeps the data stored). When the user succeeds, he will normally not be able any more to retake the quiz, and in the LMS you will see that he succeeded, he will have seen his success if you provided 'Show score at end of quiz'.

     

    I think there is confusion, the results (score) will be passed to the LMS when the Quiz is completed, not when the user has reached the mastery score. And I thought that you wanted to achieve this. Perhaps the misunderstanding is due to my English (not my native language)?

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 1, 2009 12:04 PM   in reply to texdang

    Hi again,

     

    Is English your native language? It is not mine...

    I could try to explain this with an example from real life. I'm a teacher at a college (really). When students are taken an exam, I want to know:

    1. if they have completed the exam, not taken into account if they passed or failed
    2. if they have passed or failed
    3. if they failed, I have to know if they have an attempt left to retake the exam.

    The LMS takes care of that:

    1. Reporting Complete/Incomplete gives you an answer to the first question
    2. Reporting the score (percentage or not) gives you the answer to the second question
    3. because the LMS is counting the attempts: you have the answer to the third question;
      • if this is positive the student can retake the exam, hoping that he will improve his score; the new score is sent to the LMS after completion (second time in this case) and will replace the first score or (depending on the possibilities of the LMS) be added to the history of the exam.
      • it this is negative, the score reported (see 2.) will be the final score

     

    Hoping that this clears the situation I have been trying to explain.

     

    If the student passes the first time, normally he will not get a second chance to improve the score. If you report 'Pass/fail' instead of Complete/Incomplete, the LMS considers the assessment as finished if the user has arrived at the mastery score, and thinks it is not worthwhile to let him continue, since the condition (passed) is fulfilled.

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 2, 2009 12:51 AM   in reply to texdang

    Hi Danny,

     

    That is what I tried to explain: LMS is behaving normally. Perhaps you will have to focus on the reports, provided by the LMS itself? Or translate a report (using p.e. Excel) for your client? If I think about my students, they wouldn't like not to be able to finish an assessment, because they reached the mastery score before the end of the assessment.

     

    Have a nice day (morning over here)

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2011 11:37 AM   in reply to Lilybiri

    I am having the same problem with SumTotal.  It is ending the course when the student achieves a score of 80% regardless of whether they have completed all the questions in the quiz.

     

    Being a professor also, I would not stop grading a student's paper as soon as they got 60% correct and then give them a 60 as a grade, yet that is what SumTotal is doing.  How do you get ST to allow all questions to be answered and then taking the grade that is reflective of the WHOLE quiz instead of just the first four questions?

     

    Kevin

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2011 12:24 PM   in reply to ID_kyeoman

    Please,

     

    Did you read the whole thread? I tried to explain that in order to have this you need to set up Reporting to Complete/Incomplete instead of Pass/Fail.

     

    Lilybiri

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 15, 2011 5:03 PM   in reply to ID_kyeoman

    Kevin.  Your Sum Total issue is most likely related to the way your course is set up in the LMS, not the way it's set up inside Captivate.

     

    Some LMSs have a setting that triggers automatic completion of a module if you achieve the minimum passing score.  To me this sounds suspiciously like what is happening in your case.

     

    If you don't have access to Sum Total as a course admiistrator so that you can play with the settings, you need to talk to the LMS admin/s and get them to look through the settings to ensure that the course won't trigger an automatic commit as soon as it detects a passing score.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2011 12:29 PM   in reply to texdang

    Greetings everyone! I am new to this discussion board as well as SumTotal and Captivate.

     

    Apparently, I am having the same issue and after reading the entire thread, I tried every different setting including Complete/Incomplete to Pass/Fail, Mastery Score and Report Level in hopes to have this resolved. Unfortunately, there has been no luck and no downloadable file as an example.

     

    THE SITUATION:

    • I have a Menu slide, 2 blank lesson slides and then 3 quiz questions.
    • The course is set to report to the LMS (SumTotal).
    • Mastery Score and Pass/Fail Option is set to 80 points or more to pass (also tried the % or more option).
    • The first two questions (if answered correctly) sum up to 85 points which means a user has already passed  the quiz but has ONE additional question remaining.
    • Many will attempt to not view the lesson slides and go directly to the quiz so the Choose Report Data is ticked as "Quiz Results Only".

     

    To re-explain the PROBLEM:
    After correctly answering the first two questions, the LMS dialog appears stating that the course was completed. However, there is still the THIRD question that was never viewed which eliminates the chance to get a perfect score of 100. I do not believe I can use the "Slide View Completion" of the option to jump directly to the quiz without viewing the 2 blank lesson slides (or else it will obviously stall).

     

    So, to better clarify the issue at hand, I have provided the actual captivate (CP5) file
    http://artisture.com/digital/adobepost.zip

     

    If anyone can figure out what the issue may be, please help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2011 6:42 PM   in reply to edlearner

    Your issue is not necessarily a fault in the configuration of the Captivate module.  It could be the way the course is set up in SumTotal.

     

    SumTotal thinks you don't want your student to continue with the course once they've reached a passing score (80%).  So as soon as they answer the first two questions correctly it dips out of the course.

     

    Have you checked into the SumTotal configuration options to find out if there's a way to prevent this?  It seems logical that there would be some setting you can change that enables the user to reach the end of the module and achieve an even higher score.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2011 8:11 PM   in reply to RodWard

    Thanks for being so helpful RodWard! Unfortunately, I checked with SumTotal and there is no setting for this.

     

    I am even looking for alternative ways such as Multi-Sco Packager but it seems the quiz and/or project does not end using the Multi-Sco Packager. Could this be a possible compatibility issue between Adobe Captivate and SumTotal??

     

    So far, the only thing that works is a basic course that runs straight through. However, I need to offer more flexibility with a menu so users can navigate from page to page or skip all the lesson pages and take the quiz.

     

    Please help!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 14, 2011 8:31 PM   in reply to edlearner

    I have a PDF document written a few years ago by a Captivate user that was working with SumTotal 7.2 in which he outlines the Captivate settings required to get it to work.

     

    One of the things he advises is to place a button on a non-question slide just before the Quiz Results slide that the user has to click before getting to Quiz Results where the score is evaluated.  This button is scored so that Captivate sees it as part of the quiz but to the user's it just looks like a button telling them they've reached the end of the quiz and can now see their score.  For some reason, this button prevents SumTotal from popping up an early completion message for the quiz.

     

    He also advocates some coding changes to the HTM publish template.

     

    I've not had the "pleasure" of working with SumTotal personally, and judging by the number of times its name pops up here in the forums, I may be the lucky one.

     

    You're welcome to have a copy of this PDF if you send me a private message on the forum with your email address.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2011 10:59 AM   in reply to RodWard

    Thanks for the PDF RodWard.

     

    Unfortunately, I had tried that code changing method explained in the PDF last month and it did not have any affects. I have also added the button slide before the Quiz Results slide and that had no affect either.

     

    Please let me know if you have any additional advice, or if you would like to share your thoughts if you ever work with SumTotal.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 18, 2011 11:21 AM   in reply to edlearner

    As luck would have it I DID happen to pick up another nugget of information about SumTotal this morning by watching an Adobe Connect recording of a discussion between Dr Allen Partridge and a number of Adobe technical experts, one of which was Jayashree, their Captivate + LMS expert.

     

    The presentation can be found here: http://blogs.adobe.com/captivate/2011/04/navigating-the-lms-maze-with- adobecaptivate.html

     

    In this presentation they discuss several issues encountered with SumTotal.  Jayashree indicates that when set to SCORM 1.2 SumTotal can only accept a course status of Complete/Incomplete, not Pass/Fail.  So for starters, if you are publishing in Captivate to SCORM 1.2, you need to use Complete/Incomplete.  If you go with SCORM 2004, then SumTotal can use Pass/Fail.  This is something I wasn't aware of before.

     

    They also discussed the issue with SumTotal finishing the lessons early as soon as it believed a completion score was reached and a strategy was given for this.

     

    I recommend you watch the presentation to see if you can pick up some more information.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2011 1:49 PM   in reply to texdang

    In case anyone is interested in the answer to this, in the Quiz Reporting settings, selecting Quiz Results and Slide Views, and putting Slide View Completion at 100 will force the box to pop on the last slide, while still providing the score for the quiz.

     
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