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Thanks for the update...

So no support for the GTX295, GTX360, GTX380, and other Quadro models? Let alone the GTX275 and below?

That is a distinct miss! Only supporting out-of-date middle of the road cards (forgetting about overpriced and under performing Quadro cards) and leaving out the next generation 360/380 means that the MPE technology is not yet ripe for RTM.

Harm Millaard wrote:

 

That is a distinct miss! Only supporting out-of-date middle of the road cards (forgetting about overpriced and under performing Quadro cards) and leaving out the next generation 360/380 means that the MPE technology is not yet ripe for RTM.

This is one "distinct miss", I am going to love using.   I'm glad adobe is resisting the pressure to "support everything" and rather is focusing on a way to make Pr amazingly fast and stable at different hw price points.

People who thought that choosing a GTX295, while in the same family as the GTX285, just with far more capabilities, may disagree.

People who thought that choosing a Quadro 3800, while in the same family as the 4800, just at a more attractive price, may disagree.

If you happen to be one of the lucky 285 choosers, great, if not and you have the 295, you are ***ked. You have a better card but it will not be supported and not utilized. Your choice is to throw it on the dump and get an inferior card or applaud Adobe... which I doubt many in this situation will do.

applaud Adobe... which I doubt many in this situation will do.

1. Make some users unhappy because their current or favorite card isn't supported and they can't use the rock-solid CUDA goodness; or
2. Make a whole bunch more users unhappy because CUDA just doesn't work right on any of the 318 supported cards.

If I were in charge, I'd choose number 1.  And so would you.

-Jeff

Sorry, but the words "Rock-solid" and Adobe in a single phrase raises eyebrows. In your recollection, was there at any time a "rock-solid" release of a new version? Let alone with new hardware support? What are all the posts on these fora about, compliments about stability?

Like the blind said: "I must see it, to believe it."

Where did you get 318 from, when the previous posts explicitly mentioned only 4? As far as I can calculate that leaves out 314 cards NOT supported.

If it were me and the decision to ONLY support nVidia and NOT ATI were already made, I would not go to market before ALL nVidia cards with CUDA technology were fully tested and approved. Better 3 months later but functional, than a crappy, faulty version that elicits numerous complaints.

What Curt said.

And there have been rock-solid features in *every* Premiere release.  Notice that I didn't say that every release in its entirety was rock-solid.

Where did you get 318 from, when the previous posts explicitly mentioned only 4? As far as I can calculate that leaves out 314 cards NOT supported.

It was a tongue-in-cheek exaggeration to make my point.

-Jeff

The demographic is going to shift up a little bit with this UG because of the 64 bit requirement.  All the hoobyists with grandma's pc will be cut off.

Of those who do have 64 bit, its true that few will have one of the 4 cards.  And if they are hobbyists or weekend warriors, then they may be perfactly happy with the sw only engine.   You dont Have to have one of these cards to edit.

But for the folks who are pros; spending $300 or $4000 even on a card that exponentially improves performance is a no brainer.   That is if it works.   And that is what adobe is trying to ensure by limiting it to a few well tested cards.

Not a bad plan to have pro sw available to folk who cant afford or need a hw assist card, and the same sw for the pros who do.

Agreed.  Look at this way.  By leaking the card info to us early; Adobe is making sure we dont get caught with our" pants on the ground."

"pants on the ground"

Was that guy funny, or what?

-Jeff

Personally, I'm very comfortable with Adobe taking the individual card certification approach. We're looking forward to stability and the speed increase for our production work.  Just a gut feeling, but I think Windows 7 64 is a much better "foundation" upon which to program stable editing software. We've totally gotten rid of XP and Vista in our office, and I say good riddance.

I already find one card on the list I would buy for the kind of performance we are all anticipating.  The product won't be released for approx. three more months, so I see 5 certified cards as a positive sign that development is moving forward.

I do agree with Harm about keeping the compatible card list updated.  When I built my own home system, the Adobe supported card list wasn't updated and included cards I couldn't find for sale because they were old and discontinued.

Dennis wrote:

With my tongue firmly in my cheek, I could say we could be like Apple, where even the sales people didn't know about the latest version of Final Cut until it went live.  How would that be?

Do any of you remember the graphic card manufacturer/Apple vendor whose employee several years ago, released to the public, information about an upcoming Apple product?  If I remember correctly, the Apple CEO went ballistic and canned the vendor.

So people are actually buying videocards for this and it doesn't even have a release date? 4-6 months from now

Also unless I missed something has it even been officially announced that MPE will ship with CS5? So far people are assuming it will ship with CS5 but has there even been an official announcement? There were a couple features that we had to wait for an update to work (FCP import, OMF, AAF).

Somebody mentioned Adobe aiming for the Pro market by supported mainly quatro cards. Ok so you have a RED camera shooting 4k it'll help. But DSLR and AVCHD are consumer formats, people shoot on these formats because they don't have the money for a better camera.

Right now I can edit my multiple p2/avc-intra/dv (hell even single AVCHD and h264) footage realtime already and the only time I'd be using more than one layer of anything is if I'm compositing in After Effects.

I'm also concerned with Plug-in support. Does MPE acceleration ends as soon as I put a 3rd party plug-in on it (assuming that Red Giant and everyone else comes up with a 64 bit version of there plug-in's some time this year).

I'm guessing that MPE only accelerates the same things that the Elemental Accelerator plug-in supports already and hoping I'm wrong:

Check out:

http://www.elementaltechnologies.com/products/accelerator/specs   I'm guessing well see the Quadro FX 1800 validated next.

The place where MPE would really come into handy would be laptop editing I'm really surprised no mobile cards have been validated or even mentioned.

Not meaning to take the piss out of it, it is great technology, RED camera people will be happy as hell. I really hope I'm wrong about the plug-ins. I'd also like to know what formats MPE renders to other than h264 and Mpeg2.

For some reason the link is not working....

Here is the article:

In the battle of GPGPU API's, a lot of acronyms and words are being thrown around. nVidia pitches its set of robust tools such as CUDA language, Nexus development environment, GPU acceleration for open-source Bullet and proprietary PhysX physics engines and many more. From other side, AMD speaks OpenCL through every vocal cord and pore of company's skin, Apple is also the forbearer of OpenCL and its "openness". Intel was supposed to be the third [fourth?] player with Larrabee and its native set of compiler tools, but as we wrote back in early October, the project's first silicon ended up as a dud.

Thus, if you're multi-billion dollar software developing/publishing company Adobe Systems and are developing evolutionary engine for your video editing suite, what to select from all the choices above? In a recent blog post by Adobe's video guru Mr. Dennis Radeke, a lot of things came to light when it comes to an engine that will drive next-generation of Adobe Premiere Pro [a part of Creative Suite 5].

In the post, Dennis went on to explain "What is the Mercury Playback engine about?  In a word, performance!  It makes Premiere Pro do cartwheels and flips and barely breaks a sweat.  It's like rocket fuel for your car.  It's flat out incredible..." while we might say that this statement might be over-enthusiastic, read on: "In my first test of Mercury, I dropped several P2 clips on a timeline, made them picture-in-picture and looked to see if there were any dropped frames during playback...nada.  I added more clips, bringing it up to eight or nine on my HP XW9400 with 12 cores of AMD goodness...  Think it's the CPU? No! It's only being used at about 20-30%. It's GPU! I keep going and there is no hesitation in Premiere Pro. Okay, lets add some color correction to each one and while we're at it, lets drop in some blurs [that will stop it right?] Still playin' like buttah!"

P2 clips are short for Panasonic HVX-HPX [P2] Solid State video camcorders, but you can read justified enthusiasm in his post.  But the real thrill came when they loaded several RED 4K files and play with them in real time. In order to do that with a RED 4K file, you need to spend around $5000 in order to get a custom ASIC - RED Rocket. According to Dennis, key to this stratospheric performance jump was the decision to go "64-bit only" in the next version of Premiere [part of Creative Suite 5] resulting in "the best CPU utilization in the business, 64-bit native goodness throughout and you have the insane performance of the GPU backing you up to make more things possible at once than ever before."

In order to harness the power of GPU, Adobe took one step back, though. Unlike the OpenGL effects Adobe was using in Creative Suite 4, resulting in sub-optimal acceleration for some GPUs, Premiere Pro CS5 is being built using nVidia CUDA software architecture. Yes, this singlehandedly gives the Adobe CS5 market to nVidia but given the share of nVidia Quadro boards versus ATI FirePro - we can't say we're surprised.

The reason for this decision wasn't a move akin to "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" affairs such as Batmangate or Assassin's Creed, but something more simpler: Adobe needed a stable software toolkit to work on it and according to Dennis: "The 64-bit native code has been announced and now we bring in NVIDIA CUDA technology to be the icing on the cake and a powerful new engine to squeeze out performance in Premiere Pro. Before I wax philosophic on GPU, let me officially tip my hat to the incredible engineers at Adobe and their work here for the Mercury Playback Engine."

If you are wondering what is the real deal with GPGPU API's, there is a telling tale of why Adobe opted to base its Mercury Engine on nVidia's CUDA language. While AMD will tell you that they're all for open standards and push OpenCL, the sad truth is that the company representatives will remain shut when you ask them about the real status of their OpenCL API - especially if you quote them a lead developer from a AAA software company with 10x more employees than AMD themselves that goes something like this: "I struggled to even get ATI's beta drivers installed and working, it was just problem after problem. Maybe once ATI gets their drivers out of beta and actually allow you to install them then I will have some performance numbers. I mean at this point AMD is so far behind in development tools they are not even worth pursuing right now."

Before you venture into rants, commercial aspect of GPU technology is a serious business. It took Intel better part of the last decade of 20th Century to get into the High Performance Computing business, and that market matured from being reliant on renting time on Supercomputers to having a multi-TFLOPS machine on desktops. Thus, it isn't surprising to see Adobe going to CUDA first. The plan is probably equal to all plans that we heard so far: go to CUDA in order to completely unlock the GPU potential and only then port to OpenCL, as Apple's and AMD's OpenCL toolkits mature, sometime in 2011.

Now, Mercury Playback Engine is just one small part of CS5: for instance, Flash CS5 goes as far as supporting GPU-accelerated physics, while the acceleration of Photoshop CS5 is just out of this world. If you use appropriate hardware, the one Adobe can work on and build a set of features, there is one certain thing: Adobe's CS5 will amaze you. The product suite is set to arrive in April 2010.

I got the link. The article keeps referencing this Adobe blog (written a day or two before the article you linked) where at the top it says very clearly:

"This is a  technology demo only and while Adobe is very excited, it’s not something that  is available now in CS4 nor are we commenting about exactly when it will make  an appearance"

Every one is assuming it's gonna be for CS5 and I agree it almost certainly will. But I have yet to see a press release or blog from an employee that says MPE will ship CS5 as soon as it is released.

Also the April shipping date is a guess based on a stock analysis done in June 2009 (follow the link)

All I'm saying is there's a chance it'll show up as a CS5 update (like FCP import, OMF ect for CS4) and not work out of the box. Maybe Dennis will clear this up by simply stating that MPE will work with the first versions of Premiere CS5. If he doesn't though it's because they are not ready, something I understand since they have to rewire everything for native 64bit operation (that's alot of FX filters to update).

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/12/14/adobes-mercury-playbac k-engine-for-cs5-is-cuda-only!.aspx

Here it is there was a space between the f and the or in the other link

dradeke wrote:

 

Unfortunately, I'm not empowered to say any more than what I have - wish that it wasn't so...

 

Dennis

I understand totally.

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Powered by Design wrote:

 

I have asked this question before but never got an answer.

 

What does the term "Supported Card" mean ?

 

What does Adobe do to make a card supported ?

 

Is it supported because Adobe has tested it and everything works while other cards tested dont work as well ?

 

Does a supported card have better drivers ?

 

I have a 9800GT and it works fine but would the 9800GTX work better because it was supported ?

 

 

Thanks:  GLenn

That is what is confusing for me to. Does supported mean it can play five layers of the R3D codec at 4K resolution or does supported imply that it will not crash my system?

Dell and HP offer Quad Core systems with the micro ATX motherboards with the smaller mini tower cases. For those select few (I have a small mini tower) the longer GTX 285 and Quadro 3800 graphics cards will not fit in the mini tower cases (to long). I hope Adobe can offer support for the GT 240. That will at least fit in my case. I would not expect the GT 240 to have as much GPU power as the GTX 285 but at least it will fit in my case.  So far all the approved cards are huge. Heck, I'm not even sure if the GTX 285 will fit in my apartment let alone my mini tower  :  )

I hope some of the $80.00 Nvidia cards will get supported before Premiere Por CS5 is released.

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Jeff Bellune wrote:

 

Check out Dave Helmly's video on Dennis' blog and go to the 12-minute mark and watch.  The MPE is either on or off.  If your card is supported, you can turn on the MPE.  If it's not, you can't.

 

-Jeff

I hear what you are saying but I would like to think that the CUDA technology of the GT 240 and even the 9800 GT would be good enough to at least give Premiere Pro CS5 a 50-60% boost in performance. I hope they will get aproved. I don't think everyone is going to want to invest in a $350.00 video card upgrade. Some folks will have to get a new computer case for the GTX 285. That is more or less my point. If the MPE supports the Nvidia cards that most of us have (9800 GT, GT 240) that will be great if not I don't think I am going to invest in a GTX 285 because I don't really need to playback 5 layers of the R3D codec. I admit playing back 5 layer of the R3D codec is impressive but it is not for everyone. I may or may not benefit from the MPE depending on what cards are suported. My system benifited fron the PP CS4 GPU effects. My Nvidia 9400 GT card passes the test for the GPU transitons and GPU filters of PP CS4. It may not be the best card for PP CS4  but it does work. 

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Harm Millaard wrote:

 

There are a couple of things about your post, where you are making assumptions that unfortunately have not yet been answered by Adobe, but maybe Dennis can shed some light on:

 

1. Nobody had yet stated that CS5 will include MPE

2. Nobody has mentioned whether CS5 will be introduced at NAB or only at IBC

3. Nobody has mentioned what other cards than the announced GTX285 and the Quadro 3800/4800/5800 will be supported

4. Nobody has announced support for the C10x0/C20x0 coprocessors

 

and apart from all those question marks, you have made the mistake to use a mid-tower, where your expansion capabilities will be physically limited.

1  I think someone had stated that it is supposed to be part of CS5. I think some did a url link to it. I think I did read it. There were several links over the past two months about the MPE.

2  Did I say anything about NAB or IBC? Are you making assumptions Harm Millaard? They may introduce it at NAB or IBC but I did not say that they will so chill.

3  It appears they are only supporting the big and bulky highend cards thus far. If they had announced support for the GT 240 then I would not have made my post. Iam not saying they will or will not support the GT 240 or 9800 GT. There is no assumption on my part Harm. I can say that they are not supported as of now and also state that I hope they get supported. I have done just that no more no less. Once agian chill.

4  My comments were concerning the fact that the approved cards are to big for some case. The C10x0/C20x0 coproccesor is not the issue. Did you make another assumption Harm? It would not be so bad if the GTX 285 was a smaller profile card and only used up one expansion slot. It is not even about the GT Vs. the GTX cards but rather the size. I wish Nvidia did offer the GTX series graphics cards with a smaller profile.

I know mid towers are more expandable but expansion has never been an issue thus far and still may not even be an issue. I do have a spare mid tower case that I can use. I just don't like it as much as my mini tower case. Is that OK? The concern of the larger GTX cards is not realy a big deal for me but for many others it might be problematic and worth mentioning for their sake much more than mine.

It means the cards that adobe tested the new software with to make sure it works correctly.

I know I might come across as an even bigger *** then Harm....

Correcting your spelling and grammar    :    .....**** than Harm