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jenni_b
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how to save down from INDD CS5 to CS4

May 17, 2010 11:32 AM

I had problem saving down CS4 to Cs3 before. (it need to export etc, and then you need plug ins to open Cs3, which did not work at all) now I have same problem in CS5. I thought Adobe might fix this problem this time... I am wondering if theres any easy way to save CS5 file to CS4..? (Just like you save file down to previous version in Illustrator) Please someone help?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2010 11:47 AM   in reply to jenni_b

    You have to use File>Export and choose InDesign Markup Language (IDML) and then open that file in CS4.

     

    YOu should update both CS5 and CS4 before you continue for any possible updates.

     

    I wish InDesign files could be opened or saved back to any versoin of InDesign too, but sadly Adobe don't allow it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2010 11:50 AM   in reply to jenni_b

    Well, just like you'd save out an INX from CS4 to open in CS3, you save an IDML out from CS5 to open in CS4.

    I had problem saving down CS4 to Cs3 before. (it need to export etc, and then you need plug ins to open Cs3, which did not work at all) now I have same problem in CS5. I thought Adobe might fix this problem this time...

     

    Uh, what's the problem again? Sounds like you had some problems with INX, and since IDML works pretty much the same way, I'd suggest posting any errors you run into here so we can figure out what those errors are. Relying on INX is a bad workflow, most of the time, but you say it "did not work at all" and since I use that technique every few days without error, it seems like it's not strictly an Adobe problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2010 1:07 PM   in reply to jenni_b

    It is not likely that this "problem" will ever be fixed. Every version of InDesign has come with major new features. Saving back is not nearly as simple as you think it is.

     

    And with this release you could wind up with a real disaster on your hands saving back with a document using multiple page sizes, live corner effects and split/spanned/balanced columns.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 12:47 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    Surely it should be possible, if there was a warning that a non-transferable effect is used as in illustrator? I now have to run CS5/4/3 it's bonkers

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 4:15 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Absolutely, I work for Random House, BBC and The Guardian here in the

    UK, they all still use CS3. Surely this is a killer re: upgrading. As

    much as I would like to go forward with software – what's the point?

     
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    May 19, 2010 5:28 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Come on, Eugene. Are you saying you'd take a chance on not seeing what that file looks like?

     

    And comparing Illy to ID is totally bonkers. They're completely different programs.

     

    Bob

     
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    May 19, 2010 5:29 AM   in reply to jenni_b

    Certainly it's inconvenient, but I wouldn't say bonkers. I admit that I can be pretty addle-brained at times, so I might make mistakes and use features that aren't supported (especially since I don't ever seem to remember when things were added without opeing an older version to see if they are there), and unless you open the file in the previous version after backsaving you won't really see the damage.

     

    Keep in mind, too, that the text engine usually changes in some major or minor way (it was major between CS3 and CS4, and clearly major again for CS5 withthe addition of span/split columns) that can affect the way text is composed and is likely to affect line endings which in turn can have an impact on paragraph line counts and page ends which might cause a chapter run a page long or short and affect everything after (I saw that happen yesterday in the file I was playing with for Eugene). I'd rather know I'm looking at exactly the same thing on my screen as my client is seeing on theirs.

     
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    May 19, 2010 5:32 AM   in reply to monosodiumglutamate

    monosodiumglutamate wrote:

     

    As much as I would like to go forward with software – what's the point?

     

    For you there is no point. But if you plan on adding clients going forward I suggest you read my last post in this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/message/2825208#2825208

     

    If you want to be in this business, then you need a full tool box.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 6:30 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    I never made a reference to Illy? Didn't compare illy to indesign at all?

     

     

    Anyway, I would like a look at it of course. But I don't want to have to

     

    CS5>IDML

    Open IDML in CS4 >Export>INX

    Open INX in CS3> Export INX

    Open INX in CS2

     

     

    (And I don't have CS4 because the Style mapping bug in CS4 prevented me upgrading. It was fixed 6 months prior to CS5 release. But by then the bosses deicded they'd wait for CS5 instead of two upgrade fees to CS4 and CS5 - so NO CS4 here)

     

     

    Bob, it's fine if you don't want it, I understand your point of view. But lots of people want to be able to backsave to CS3, including me. And I can't.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 6:34 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Sorry Eugene,

     

    That was someone else in a different thread. Most of my replies are via email and sometimes the threads get a bit confusing.

     

    I long for NNTP.

     

    Bob

     
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    May 19, 2010 6:44 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    Okely Dokely.

     
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    May 19, 2010 6:57 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Eugene, I understand your pain, but I still don't understand why you'd willingly work on a file in CS5 that you know is going to have to be dealt with in CS3? Files coming in from outside sources I understand you can't control, but in house?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 7:24 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Eugene,

     

    Would you be willing to pay good, hard cash, for a program that can convert a file from CS5 to CS3?

     

    If so, how much? (Well ... a fair minimum price. Or a maximum, really.)

     

    If so, would you expect:

     

    (a) an exact conversion of the actual state of the '5 document into '3? (That means 'freezing' all current line breaks; re-threading column-spanning and multi-column paragraphs into separate text frames; removing text that's been hidden using conditions; converting applied GREP styles to locally applied attributes. I have no idea of what to do with rotated, scaled, and/or resized pages, though.)

     

    (b) a dialog, where you can select what you want to preserve, and what not.

     

    (c) a document you can work with.

     

    (Please select one )

     

    I have been investigating what would be needed to write such a program. It sounds feasible, but it also sounds like a lot of work before it even does anything at all, and a lot of headache (I'm anticipating numerous complaints in the ilk of "why can't it backsave from CS6 to 2.0").

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 7:30 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    I understand Eugene's point. I also have to do that laborious chain of backsaving. I want to work with full 'toolbox', I embrace upgrades, I'm in the queue when they come out and I understand the concept of 5 being different to say 3 but it all just seems so clunky. It's also sad to say that it just can't be done so lump it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 7:41 AM   in reply to monosodiumglutamate

    This is really no different than saying "the client wants a Word file but I used InDesign."

     

    For goodness sake, why use the wrong version to start with? This whole thing just seems so silly to me. I'm sorry, but I just don't get it.

     

    Bob

     
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    May 19, 2010 7:59 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    Well Bob.

     

    For instance, unbeknown to me, a colleague I work with sent some files over to be proofread. My colleague isn't very well versed in InDesign protocols and such. In fairness I don't have much dealings with this department, the colleague or anything else they do. I showed them how to use InDesign CS3 and that was it.

     

    So the other day I get a call saying that my colleague had sent some files outside to be typeset by someone else using InDesign. The typesetter had CS4. I was called in as the "indesign expert" and asked why they won't open in CS3. I explained how to do it going backward from CS4 to CS3 using INX.

     

    All the files came back ok in the INX format, bare ONE section. I spent the 5 hours rebuilding that chapter yesterday as the INX file was banjaxed and wouldn't open in CS3. I asked the people on this forum to help and they tried and couldn't get it to work.

     

     

    So you know what, you may know to make sure that everyone has the same version of InDesign, or for everyone to work in the same version. But not everyone does.

     

    Most phone calls I hear going about is "We have InDesign, oh great so do you - great we'll send the files over".

     

     

    Not everyone knows to check the backward compatibility of files between InDesign.

     

     

    I'm often asked to design something and they know I use Indesign. They come back to me about a month later and say "Can we have this in Word?"

     

    The Word to InDesign comparison isn't good. Because they are different applications.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 7:58 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    duplicate post

     
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    May 19, 2010 8:07 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    It all comes back to one thing: InDesign is a professional level application.

     

    Training is essential and the fact that a lot people try to use it without the proper training is not Adobe's fault. I swear, if some of these people decided to take up carpentry they'd cut off a finger their first day on the job.

     

    And for the record, when someone says "I have InDesign" my first question is "What version?"

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 8:31 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    But Bob you are assuming that everyone that uses InDesign is a professional or is talking to a professional. Some people don't have that comfort.

     

    Backstory here is that I was hired to convert from Ventura to InDesign. And I did that, working with a team of professional typesetters fully trained in Ventura. Now they have InDesign because Ventura was unstable. That team doesn't ask for my input anymore because they have the files in InDesign and work to meet deadlines. They are professional typesetters, they have the training in other software. But were unaware in the backsave issue with InDesign.

     

    Where does it tell you when opening or saving a file does it let you know that a file won't be able to be opened again in the original version of the program?

     

    I just opened a CS2 document in CS4 (trial version) and it opened fine. It only allows a Save As, and it does say CS4 document. And I can cop on to that it saves it a CS4 document; but no warnings that it will incompatible, or how to export to previous versions, no warnings or info at all.

     

    There are people out there not well versed on InDesign and don't know these things.

     

    Any trianing course I've been on never mentions compatibility issues in the course?

     

     

    So to me it's perfectly reasonable that a professional could be brilliant at their job, but unaware of the Saving Compatibility issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 8:34 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    And Bob I went on training courses for InDesign with the typesetting team so I could see what was being taught. There aren't a lot of places that offer training in InDesign.

     

    And at the time we were using CS2 and had no previous version of InDesign, so nobody even knew to ask about that.

     

    We're at CS5 now and people are still asking "Can I save back to CS3? How do I do it?"

     

    Nobody knows how to do it because it's not evident in the software, people don't know to ask it at training or other things.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 8:49 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    I mentioned this on another, but similar thread, that Quark has been doing this since, when, version 4.0 (not allowing backsaving for more than one version)?  A practice Quark still uses and now, from what Peter or Eugene said, doesn't allow older versions to be installed on the same machine! We always use to ask for Quark versions when getting files. I used, what was it called, RegEdit(?) to look at resource forks and get what version files were when clients had no idea. A lost art!

     

    But as Eugene says, where does it say that when you open and save from a different version? Nowhere. It was something we had to learn to keep our jobs.

     

    Now we are here in 2010, not 1993, and InDesign is a far more robust and complex than we could imagine but still the same backwards saving situation. I don't like keeping older versions of software (let alone keeping old computers around to run them) or to keep track of file formats either. And I hate having to buy Soxy, Flight Check and any other utility that should be built into the program to deal with this stuff, but until Adobe comes up with a solution it behooves you to make it a part of your technical knowledge and doing business.

     

    I suggested that Markzware might offer an ID version of MarkzTools to open, backsave and make backwards compatible INDD files like it does for Quark. So while Jongware may be thinking along those same lines, Markzware might be on it as we speak!

     

    [Disclosure: I do not work for Markzware or own any part of it!]

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 9:12 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Eugene Tyson wrote:

     

    Well Bob.

     

    For instance, unbeknown to me, a colleague I work with sent some files over to be proofread. My colleague isn't very well versed in InDesign protocols and such. In fairness I don't have much dealings with this department, the colleague or anything else they do. I showed them how to use InDesign CS3 and that was it.

     

    So the other day I get a call saying that my colleague had sent some files outside to be typeset by someone else using InDesign. The typesetter had CS4. I was called in as the "indesign expert" and asked why they won't open in CS3. I explained how to do it going backward from CS4 to CS3 using INX.

     

    All the files came back ok in the INX format, bare ONE section. I spent the 5 hours rebuilding that chapter yesterday as the INX file was banjaxed and wouldn't open in CS3. I asked the people on this forum to help and they tried and couldn't get it to work.

     

     

    So you know what, you may know to make sure that everyone has the same version of InDesign, or for everyone to work in the same version. But not everyone does.

     

    Most phone calls I hear going about is "We have InDesign, oh great so do you - great we'll send the files over".

     

     

    Not everyone knows to check the backward compatibility of files between InDesign.

     

     

    I'm often asked to design something and they know I use Indesign. They come back to me about a month later and say "Can we have this in Word?"

     

    The Word to InDesign comparison isn't good. Because they are different applications.

    There was a MS Word release that couldn't open Word files from the immediately prior release, and IIRC, it couldn't open its own back-saved files, or its own RTF files. A subsequent bug-fix release solved the problems, but everyone will notice that however disruptive the problem may have been for countless MS Word users, it didn't them to quit Word for some other program. MORAL: Everyone's got a maximum pain point; below it, you'll suffer and gripe and go on, while at or above it, you'll find another product to adopt. Sooner or later, you'll find a similar problem and its pain point.

     

    I'd like to suggest an InDesign new-feature campaign that's helpful in multi-release situations; it probably doesn't require a lot of engineering, so it might have some possibility of being achieved. It's a throwback to an earlier Pagemaker file-naming technique: include the application version number in the file extension. Pagemaker used the file extension form, .PM# (where # represents the version number) from about PM4 through PM7. It may have begun with Aldus, from whom Adobe bought PM.

     

    You can enter a formal new product feature or enhancement request here: Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form.

     

    In the meantime, it might be useful to adopt a manual naming technique: include the release/version number in the filename, before the extension. For example: filename.idcs4.indd, filename.idcs5.indd, etc. It would take some training and gentle reminders to make it work.

     

     

    Regards,

     

    Peter

    _______________________

    Peter Gold

    KnowHow ProServices

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2010 9:31 AM   in reply to peter at knowhowpro

    It is a shame the function isn't there, for various reasons.

     

    But on the other hand it's good that it's not there for various reasons.

     

    I understand both sides of the argument.

     

    Is it a good idea? Who knows? Some say they want it, some say they don't.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 13, 2010 1:39 PM   in reply to Bob Levine

    When I open a CS4 document in CS5, alter the text with the correct font (no graphic changes!), save it as an IDML file, and open it again, I find that all the low-res photos have disappeared - as they are in CS4. This must surely be solveable one way or another?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 13, 2010 1:46 PM   in reply to Hadetpaabadet

    .idml does not preserve the image previews. Update the links andthey should reappear.

     
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    May 23, 2011 3:34 AM   in reply to jenni_b

    For those people who don't understand why this is an issue.

     

    Welcome to the real world.

     

    We are not all massive companies, some of us are freelancers (in fact, I'd imagine a majority of indesign userbase are freelancers).  We work with other freelancers, other design houses, tweaking, assisting, collaborating.  So now i've upgraded to CS5.5 I can no longer work in a team with those on lower versions.  No, they cannot afford to upgrade.  And no, they're not prepared to continually interrupt their work flows by some very flakey imports of idml pages - these are buggy at best.  It's a risk they don't need to take and clients are looking elsewhere/ I've invested another thousand a bit pounds and am now losing business.  Many thanks Adobe.

     

    There is no reason why indesign files can't be saved as CS5 and CS4, if some features are incompatible, then these are lost, but seriously - what standard significant changes have happened between 5 and 5.5 - no other piece of software in existence can't save back at least one software version.  I'm now losing work because I dared to upgrade the software and cut off all team members who can't afford the upgrade. It should be made VERY clear on the product pages that indesign cs5.5 cannot save native files compatible with cs5.  Let's see what that does to the upgrade figures.

     

    This is very, very, very bad Adobe. One question I had this morning was "do you run Quark?" - and yes, I do - maybe it's time to ditch indesign, I see that the latest version of Quark happily saves back two versions, also PDF export is less problematic - especially with transparency.

     

    The extra features in cs5.5 are not worth losing work over.  That cs5.5 can't talk to cs5 is an example of the worst of Adobe. I'm thinking of returning the software as not fit for purpose.

     

    This is crazy.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2011 8:55 AM   in reply to nkhm

    Hi - of course I agree with you about this, as I posted this in the first place. But I got around it, somehow: The Norwegian support group, situated in Sweden, had a solution: You can return your ID5 (if it's not too old), buy a multi-user version for one person (!), and then downgrade it to ID4 (impossible with single user packages). It is a little hassle, but the girl at Adobe actually war extremely helpful. So now I have  4 and 5, and everything worked out quite well - after a truckload of trouble, that is ;-)

     
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    Mar 9, 2013 5:33 AM   in reply to jenni_b

    You can have save as an IDML file..

     
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    Mar 2, 2014 11:39 PM   in reply to jenni_b

    Hello Jenni, I have tha same problem thanks for share this interesting question. i can got some reviews from the answers.

     
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