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CS5 Very small toolbar- Tried Preferences, Interface, Large and it doesn't work.

May 23, 2010 7:24 AM

I have Win 7 and just got the CS5 Premium installed.  Everything is fine in the other programs but Photoshop's toolbar and swatch pallette are so small that it is very hard to work with.  The menu bar(file, edit, etc) all across the top look like they are are a 2 pt. font. They are also very hard to read.  I tried setting it to large in the preferences but it didn'tchange anything.  Any other suggestions?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2010 7:40 AM   in reply to Honeydew56

    Your system's DPI setting in the display settings.

     

    Mylenium

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2010 8:40 AM   in reply to Honeydew56

    I have just installed CS5 and am having same problem.  Also Win 7.  The menu titles and icons in title bar are so tiny they are unreadable.  Adjusting dpi size doesn't affect this program atr all.  It seems as if Adobe doesn't respond to the usual Windows adjustments?  Any ideas?  I just can't see the menu titles.  It is awful

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2010 6:40 AM   in reply to Honeydew56

    I have the full version of CS5.  Nothing will change the title bar text.  If I play around with my Win7 display settings I can increase the size of everything else, slide bars, menus themselves, palettes, but not Adobe menu titles.  Dreamweaver seems the same, it has teeny weeny text and is nearly unreadable.

     

    I am very cross about this, every other program is amenable to being changed within Windows - why not this one?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2010 8:16 AM   in reply to Honeydew56

    You can make your other programs stay small by setting your appearance/display setting to 100% when you change the resolution to 1360 x 768

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2010 8:39 AM   in reply to Jesper Storm Bache

    It is a mistake to use any other setting than the monitor's native resolution if you are a serious Photoshop user.


     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 7, 2010 3:56 PM   in reply to Honeydew56

    Amen.  I have a 30 inch monitor and 66 yr old eyes (and Windows 7).  My workflow is constantly interrupted by having to change my seated position and thrust my head forward so that I can read the icons.  It's like buying a Ferrari but being unable to adjust the seat.  I find it a gross oversight and sleight to users who spend a lot of money to use their product, which supplies multiple options to manipulate the workspace and photographs but no way to adjust the fonts in the workspace.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 9, 2010 5:11 AM   in reply to toivoanderson

    Have you tried making the menu options larger?  Not idea I know, as the menu titles remain ridiculously small.

    I used Control panel - App and Personalise - Personalize - change window glass colour - Adv application settings.

    Then select from list of Items - Menu and make it larger font type and size (Verdana is nicely spaced for reading on screen).  It does make the menu items list much larger.

     

    I also tried Edit/prefs/Interface. UI text = large and I think it made the palette size a bit larger.

     

    The real issue here is why does Adobe not conform to Windows accessibility options.  I thought most companies now had to allow for reading problems on screens - I guess they just forgot it!!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,456 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jun 9, 2010 6:18 AM   in reply to gambist1

    Adobe software has the rare characteristic that it is built for BOTH Windows and Apple environments.  Under the covers, Adobe has "rolled its own" controls, coded in a system-nonspecific manner.

     

    This has both good and bad sides.

     

    The good side is that it's one of the most consistent products between the platforms that you will find.  If you are good at using Photoshop on a Mac and you are placed in front of a Windows system, chances are you'll be good at using Photoshop on that system as well.

     

    That bad side is that Adobe may not keep up with the latest "trends" in window management by Microsoft.  To their credit, Microsoft has been working to make the Windows environment more usable by creating things like the ability to size up virtually everything on the display.  This is not accomplished in one fell swoop, but by making the myriad different controls and visual elements sensitive to the chosen settings.

     

    See where I'm headed here?

     

    Adobe, while creating an environment that has certain advantages for them, has also created an environment that has certain assumptions built in - like what size things will be rendered on the display, and this environment is also very vast, embodying all the Adobe products.

     

    Adobe apparently has not chosen to migrate their UI controls along with the new Microsoft directions - which by any measure aren't consistent even in themselves (just look at the UI for WordPad in Windows 7 if you want an example).  Adobe might also have made the judgment that if they were to tweak their controls they'd unleash a whole new realm of user problems, both because they had to touch a lot of code, and because now there's a whole new layer of complexity that covers virtually everything.

     

    Even today on some systems people report not being able to see all the numbers in the edit boxes.  Imagine if all those UI elements were made variable...

     

    I'm not justifying Adobe's approach, but I can say (as a developer myself) I do understand it.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 9, 2010 6:31 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Big mistake by Adobe – and maybe illegal.


    Aren't there accessibility requirements for commercial software?


     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,456 posts
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    Jun 9, 2010 7:11 AM   in reply to John Joslin

    Illegal?  You're kidding, right?  Commercial software user interfaces are not regulated by law, no more than law requires a novel to be printed in large type.

     

    You might be confusing with laws governing access to telephone services, or something like that.

     

    Now, it might be that Adobe could sell better into certain markets (e.g., the Federal Government) by being able to say they conform to certain requirements for accessibility (e.g., section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973) on a response to a request for bid.  That could make it commercially attractive to add those features.

     

    But an illegal UI?  

    Maybe someday...  Give the lawyers time.

     

    -Noel

     

     

    Disclaimer:  I am no lawyer; I've just done a little research.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2010 4:21 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Well, I, for one, only purchased CS5 when I was assured by the sales rep on the phone that I was going to be "very happy" with the improvements Adobe has made in terms of accessibility.  I was told that they finally did conform to the Windows accessibility practices and that I would be able to use these programs as I do any other (including Paint Shop Pro, which I have been using for decades partly because the Adobe products were not accessible.

     

    And to add insult to injury, I now have a project with a deadline, and Adobe says I have to pay for telephone support.  But I see here that it's not just me that is having these issues.

     

    sjbh

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2010 11:56 PM   in reply to sjhpubs

    I have now resorted to changing my screen res to 1280 x 960 and I can now (just) read everything on PS screen.

    What a ridiculous situation though.  I have not read any reviews that mention this lack of compatibility with Windows yet it is a very important point.  And I don't know how to even start complaining to Adobe - any ideas?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 21, 2010 6:30 AM   in reply to gambist1

    I have written, called, and now I am about to really try to raise the roof

    because I bought the whole CS5 Suite based on being told that it was

    accessible.  I have limited vision and I already have my windows fonts

    tweaked and sized up.  To have to change the screan resolution is not only a

    PITA, as someone pointed out, it's a waste of an expensive monitor to use it

    in something other than its native resolution.  And I never use just PS--I

    always have all sorts of applications open at once so changing the

    resolution is not a resolution for me.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 21, 2010 12:49 PM   in reply to Honeydew56

    I'll have to look when I get home, but I don't think I've noticed this Problem at all! Win 7, 64 bit. Could it have something to do with the Video Card?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 21, 2010 5:49 PM   in reply to mikeobe

    I have a brand new machine.  What I am noticing is that the full version of

    Acrobat 9 is accessible, at least when it is used through the browser.  So

    they have made some progress but unless there is something really well

    hidden in PS, there is still no way to make it fully accessible.  The menu

    items are accessible but not the menus or the palettes or the dialogue

    boxes.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 27, 2010 4:43 PM   in reply to Honeydew56

    I am like the rest of you.  I have 30 inch screens and have to roll my chair up to the screen to see it, I have tried large in settings, it didn't make a difference.  Please if they are any fixes other than resetting screen please post.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jun 28, 2010 6:39 AM   in reply to dhawn6

    Could one of you with the problem please photograph or capture your screen, and post the image here?

     

    What's impossible to be sure of, from the text above, is whether some folks are seeing larger fonts than others, or whether the single somewhat fixed display setup is simply too small for some eyes.

     

    Is this the same size as what you're seeing?  Make sure you click on these images to see them full size:

     

    ScreenCap.jpg

     

    ScreenCap2.jpg

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 28, 2010 6:40 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    One thing I can suggest, for those of you running Windows 7, is to run the ClearType Tuner.  You can make choices that will make small characters seem darker and easier to read.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2010 8:56 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    This is as large as I can get the text in windows 7 ultimate 64 bit.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2010 9:16 PM   in reply to Honeydew56

    photoshop screen.JPG

    This is as large as I can get my text. windows7 ultimate 64 bit.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2010 11:25 PM   in reply to dhawn6

    Yup.  Mine is just a tad larger because I have my type set at 125%.

     

    I can get the menu items themselves to be larger by going to the display

    settings, Advanced tab, but I cannot get the menu names or the diolog boxes

    or palettes to be any larger.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 29, 2010 4:37 AM   in reply to sjhpubs

    It would help if you would also list your desktop size, in pixels as well as your physical monitor sizes.

     

    From the one image posted just above, it looks as if you're seeing the same sizes and proportions of the Photoshop UI elements that the rest of us are, but with larger characters in the edit boxes.

     

    I consider myself lucky because from where I sit everything's crisp and clear, and I don't crave larger UI elements.   However, not everyone has good eyesight and the whole idea of accessibility is to make the UI accessible to more users.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2010 7:58 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    My monitors are dell 30 inch.(3008wfp)  The resolution is set at 2560x1600 which is recommended.  All other software I am running is very easy to read.  In photoshop all pictures are great, but trying to read the menus text etc is very difficult unless I move closer like 18 inches from the screen.  I do not have bad eyesight. (this is the only program I am using that has this small text) I have the photoshop Suite, Encore is like it should be,The others like  after effects, soundbooth, flash have large menu bars but all other text is very small.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2010 12:20 AM   in reply to Honeydew56

    If failing to meet accessibility standards is not illegal, it should be.  

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2010 5:49 AM   in reply to dhawn6

    And I have a Dell Ultrasharp 24" with resolution 1920x1200 and custom text

    sized at 182%.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,456 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jun 30, 2010 7:19 AM   in reply to dhawn6
    function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

    dhawn6 wrote:

     

    My monitors are dell 30 inch.(3008wfp)  The resolution is set at 2560x1600 which is recommended. 

    ...

    trying to read the menus text etc is very difficult unless I move closer like 18 inches from the screen.  I do not have bad eyesight.

     

    Nice sounding monitor setup, but I wonder if it's got problems.  I have to differ with you a bit in your assessment...

     

    The 3008 WFP has about 100 dpi pixel resolution, which is not different from what I see on my LCD monitors.

     

    With 100 dpi monitors and good eyesight you should not be needing to increase the size of the UI elements nor moving closer to see them clearly - they are QUITE easy to see when they are sharply rendered.  Either your monitors are not crisply displaying your pixels, or your eyesight is worse than you think - or both.

     

    My normal viewing distance is about 28 to 30 inches (I can just touch my screen with an oustretched arm), and I have NO problems seeing the Photoshop UI elements at this size.  In fact, I can easily see them out to 4 feet or more - until my glasses get beyond their usable limit.

     

    I'm not criticising you here, not at all, but trying to provide some observations that could help you.

     

    1.  You need to critically check your monitor hardware setup.  It's possible the UI elements are not being rendered as sharply on your system as they should be.  With LCD monitors you should see every pixel sharply rendered at 100% size.  Even tiny 1 pixel dots on the tops of lower case i characters should be crisply visible.  Do not settle for less!

     

    2.  I suggest you have an eye exam.  You can, if it turns out your eyes are a little weak, get your optometrist (e.g., Lenscrafters) to create a special pair of glasses specifically for computer use.  Ask for Computer Glasses, and go in armed with your normal viewing distance.  That's what I've done, and being able to see small detail on the computer is WAY better than not being able to see them.  UI elements aside, your WORK will be better for it.

     

    Hope this helps in the interim while Adobe (hopefully) works up a more accessible new version for the future.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2010 4:42 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    little more information on my photoshop setup.  I use photoshop a lot, my only complaint is in this version with my set up the UI is very small as seen in prev posted picture.  I can live with the small print, but it would be nice to have larger print.  I was hoping someone else had solved the small print problem and could advise me some trick to get it larger.  I have already tried all the  crisping largest text settings etc. Maybe in the next version it could be addressed.  All the older versions before 4 worked great.  I do set my monitors with spyder elite for exact color, and the monitors drop about 10 % brightness from factory set up.  I set back about 36 inches from my screen, And for  the last several years have my eyes checked yearly and have prescription glasses set for 36 inches.  So I do not have a eye problem, usually I do not even need the glasses for most programs but even with the special glasses it is eye straining to see the little boxes and print,  and as mention before all other aspects of photoshop works great.  It would be nice to be able to use it like the   encore interface.  After I find the menu button the menu options are plenty large, it is just a little eye strain to see the little menu and tool boxes.  I have a very large screen and wonder how someone with a smaller screen interacts. It would be great for adobe to have a fix for this sometime, I am very satisfied with the adobe products, it would just be nice not to have to strain.  

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2010 11:53 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    OMG!

     

    I am sorry, Noel, but I really think your answer is over the top.  I do, in

    fact have limited vision, but even so, I am able to adjust EVERY other

    program that I run so I can easily use it.  Even if I had perfect vision,

    which dhwant6 might have, the relative size of the menu and dialog fonts is

    TINY and cannot be changed.  I thought, when you were asking all those

    questions, that perhaps you worked for Adobe, and were trying to get a

    handle on what our environments were.  But it appears that you were just

    trying to let us know that we were the problem and not the software.

     

    Perhaps I am overstepping in answering something you sent to someone else,

    but I have never seen anyone on a board address a post the way you have.

    It's not constructive or respectful at all.  Obviously we are all

    experienced, knowledgeable people or we would not be using this software or

    these monitors.  Please treat us with the respect that you would want to be

    treated with.

     

    Respectfully,

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 1, 2010 6:16 AM   in reply to sjhpubs

    Did you read the same thing I wrote?  I'm sorry that I have offended you.

     

    I'm not saying you shouldn't want or have the ability to resize your UI elements.  Far from it, I hope Adobe fixes this.  I don't happen to believe it should be a law as John suggests, but I'm all for accessibility as long as it's made configurable.  I like the direction Microsoft has taken with Windows 7, and Adobe is less well integrated with Windows 7 than many other packages.

     

    I'm not an Adobe employee, though from their past policies I can say there's virtually no chance they will change Photoshop CS5 in a way that will satisfy those who wish to see larger UI elements.  So I'm trying to suggest workarounds that might make the current software easier to use.

     

    As I do design software user interfaces I'm very interested in perceptions that differ significantly from my own.  I use multiple large monitors myself and I honestly haven't felt the need to increase the size of Photoshop's UI.  If anything, I strive to minimize the UI elements and chrome so as to maximize workspace.

     

    I have a VERY sharp set of displays myself, and I can only guess those of you who say Adobe's UI elements are hard to see aren't seeing them nearly as clearly as I am - that's only logical.  Everyone's displays can and should work this well.  Not everyone knows that, because they haven't seen what I see.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2010 11:24 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I would love to see what you see.  I cannot imagine that getting a display

    to show this teeny font crisper could mitigate the fact that it is, indeed,

    teeny font.  I am very glad that you have wonderful equipment and that you

    have no problems with it.  Some of us, on the other hand, seem to have very

    good equipment and Windows7 cleartype, which is a big improvement over the

    way XP scaled and displayed fonts, and yet we still find the font very teeny

    and almost impossible to read.

     

    And, yes, Adobe makes a very strong case for building Accessible web sites

    and applications, but it does not follow that advice for itself in

    Photoshop.  I find that disturbing and has been one of the main reasons I

    have stuck with Corel Paint Shop Pro for decades, and will continue to do

    so.  Corel costs much less that PS, and I can accomplish the same things

    with it.  It's not the "industry standard" but that does not make it an

    inferior product and, in fact, I find it very capable and it has Always Been

    Accessible.  The lack of accessibility is not an industry standard either

    these days.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2010 11:24 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    in

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 12:24 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    I use multiple large monitors myself and I honestly haven't felt the need to increase the size of Photoshop's UI.

     

     

    It's not about you Noel, it's about people less well endowed than you who have problems with miniscule type.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 2, 2010 6:58 AM   in reply to John Joslin

    My post is definitely about me trying to learn something, ultimately to make my own products better.  I'd like to get something out of this forum too.

     

    So...  Do YOU (John) feel that the Photoshop UI elements are too small?  Or do they work for you?

     

    By the way the girl with the two 30 inch monitors has me beat by a country mile, mine are only 20 inches.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 7:37 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    Do YOU (John) feel that the Photoshop UI elements are too small?  Or do they work for you?

     

     

     

    Yes they are definitely too small.

     

    (Although I don't have a problem reading them myself.   )

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2010 12:12 AM   in reply to Honeydew56

    I have this same problem. I am using Windows 7 on a Dell Laptop... brand new equipment.

    Everyplace else I go the fonts are size, I go into Photoshop CS5 and menu names, dialog boxes, palettes

    , etc... the fonts are so tiny. Adobe knows about this problem and you can get something from them for this problem. I had CS4 and it did the same thing. They told me they never heard about this and I told them to check online to see how many people have this problem. That stopped them dead in their tracks and they sent me CS5 hoping the problem was fixed and to keep me satisfied as a customer. I had CS3 and I loved it. CS5 was no better. They need to fix this font problem. I can't find the number that I had called before but I will call the sales number at Adobe and will not get off the phone with them until they can give me a fix for this problem (which I don't think they have) or return my money to me. And if they don't I WILL be going to my local papers and to my local news channels to tell them about the problems that Adobe has with their software and that they are not giving their customers their money back. And to the idiot who thinks it's peoples eyes... all I can say is that you shouldn't even bother replying to posts if you only have something idiotic to say. We get on these posts to help us solve problems with our software not to hear stupid insults from people like you. Everyone with this problem should start dialing Adobe. Don't let large corporations take our money and give us merchandise that is defective. They will be hearing me loud and clear in just one moment.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2010 11:43 PM   in reply to cs0122

    Name-calling violates the adobe.com Terms of Use as well as the Adobe Community Guidelines. Please stop it or you'll have your posts edited or deleted.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2010 4:37 AM   in reply to Honeydew56

    Update: I spent over an hour on the phone with different departments within Adobe. I started off with Tech Support 1-800-642-3623, then to Customer Service 1-800-833-6687, then back to Tech Support for Photoshop and then finally back to Customer Service. To answer this problem....there is no fix for PC users if you have a half decent resolution on your screen. This is unacceptable. I am waiting to hear about getting a full refund. My request has gone to a higher power within and should hear today. All employees that I spoke with admitted knowing about this and saying there is no good fix to it. If you can not use your software because of this I would suggest calling them and complaining at least. If you can not use it like I can't since I am not going to lower my resolution on my screen for their fix. I bought a good monitor with high resolution and then paid big money for what I considered one of the best softwares a photographer can use and now it's not usable. Do not wait and do not take no for an answer if you want a refund for this software. If you are like me we need a software that can be used in a reasonable manner. One that we can atleast see on our screens.

     
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