Hello everyone!
I could use some advice, and I'm sorry for not having all the information I perhaps should have.
My employer and I are currently looking into purchasing Production Premium CS4 for projects we do in our education department as a part of volunteer and staff training.
The computer I have is your basic computer you'd find in an office. I have a DVD player but no burner, and it used just for editing Word and other Microsoft Office documents, surfing the internet and the like.
My IT guys have said (based on the system requirements for CS4) I need to:
We already have an external hard drive for media storage. My screen is basically 10'' x 12'' and has resolution up to 1280x1024 pixels.
My computer doesn't have firewire. The external harddrive does have one firewire jack (and it's currently hooked up through USB).
The cameras I may be using are a miniDV Sony DCR-TRV950 with both a USB and firewire output and a newer Hard Drive camcorder, a Sony HDR-SR11 with no firewire output but a USB. We only record SD video with the Sony HDR camcorder.
I would just like some indication (if it's possible to say) if I'll be able to do video editing on my computer with the upgrades listed above. The editing I've done before was on a Mac with Final Cut Studio on a system set up for video editing, so I'm unfamiliar with setting something like this up by myself. My IT guys are not incredibly familiar with the software but have a good handle on the hardware.
Thank you for any discussion about this! I'll be interested to see what comes of this post:)
Tell your IT guys a Premiere Pro edit system needs to be an all new system, in addition to the one currently in use. It's bad practice to use your edit system for anything but editing. A lot of office and other productivity software can wreak havoc on an edit rig.
You really need two computers.
From what you describe, your current system is way outdated, and it looks like it is time to invest in a new PC.
Have a look here: How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...
Jim -
Thanks for your advice!
Why is it bad practice to use one system (if upgraded to deal with video production) for video and word processing? I did this to some extent on a mac at my last job and never had any serious issues.
We already have one external hard drive (500gb or so) to store footage etc. and I'm seriously thinking of getting a second as backup.
Will my system just not run properly?
Harm-
Thank you as well! I work for a non-profit, and before I talk to my IT guys about purchasing a whole new CPU, I'm interested in finding out why with the upgrades I've listed we couldn't just use my current CPU rather than purchase a new computer.
Zooheather, Premiere CS4 needs major horsepower to run, such as the latest quad-core processors. You won't last 5 minutes with only 3GB of ram either. In order for a PC to recognize more than 3.4GB orf ram, you'll need to switch from your 32-bit operating system to a 64-bit (right now, Windows 7 64 bit is FREE to download btw). But seriously, we have ALL struggled with this, we're not trying to give you grief. Some people try to work with 6GB of ram, and that's difficult. However, if you can use SD video and not try to do full HD, then you can swing it.
Please have your IT group get you a rig at LEAST to these specs:
I imagine educators get better prices, but that's the horsepower you'll need. Wish we had a better answer.
From the capabilities you mentioned, I can only derive that it is a system at least 4 years old, maybe much more and it lacks anything a decent PC would have today. Upgrading components is money down the drain, because the basic ingredients for comfortable editing are missing (good CPU, fast FSB, on-board sound, firewire, PCI-e slots, dual or triple channel memory, etc. ). Your 80 GB disk is telling in that respect.
Even non-profit organisations need to recognize that PC's are outdated quickly and using state-of-the-art programs like PR require state-of-the-art PC's.
For editing a USB disk is worthless. It can be used for backups, but not for editing. Maybe have a look here: How to get the best from a PC? Some guides...
PaulieDC (and everyone else)
Thank you very much for your help and patience answering my questions. I understand that we may have to end up buying a new CPU, but before I bring that up I'd like to have good rational for why we need to... my job isn't technically to edit video, but since I've got the skills they've started using them and I'm hoping for purchasing good software so the videos we produce are fantastic (and so I don't have to try to adapt to a consumer software after using FCP!) I tried using Elements on another computer here and while I was able to get a video put together it was a very time consuming and frustraing process!
To clarify, the requirements for CS4 on Windows are listed as 2GB of RAM (and more when using multiple components). I don't anticipate using lots of thse compoenents at once. I primarily want the suite so I can have Premiere Pro, Soundbooth, Photoshop, Encore and possibly After Effects. I also don't anticipate using Premiere Pro at the same time as more than one other application.
I plan on ONLY editing SD video. We have no need of going HD until the industry forces us that way.
So, only editing in SD and upgrading to 3GB RAM as IT suggests, you still advise getting a new computer?
And I'm understanding that without a new computer (b/c to get mine to where it needs to be would be more costly than a new computer?) the software will not run as quickly as I need it to... to function?
Harm-
I'm sorry, what does FSB stand for?
Luckily our external drive we just purchased and has two Firewire 800 ports and one FW400... I have to use the USB to connect it to my computer currently because the computer doesn't have FW!
OK, I believe I understand what you're saying. We may be able to upgrade the speed but without the other components you mention (a faster CPU, the correct ports...) editing won't be a joyous experience.
Thanks again for your assistance. I read through your guide briefly earlier today and if we have to go the direction of purchasing a new computer (even if we don't build it) it will be very helpful to base our purchasing off of.
Thanks!
The minimum requirements as stated by Adobe are absolute minimum requirements and will only suffice for 70+ seniors, with lots of time on their hands, who often go take a cup of coffee, and don't mind waiting endlessly.
For around $ 1 K you can get a pretty decent system for comfortable editing SD material that moves significantly faster than a snail. There is quite a difference between waiting 4 hours for encoding to finish or 30 minutes, especially if you discover there is still this tiny mistake you need to correct and start all over again.
BTW, what are your full specs on the current system? We've only been guessing up to now.
The cameras I may be using are a miniDV Sony DCR-TRV950 with both a USB and firewire output and a newer Hard Drive camcorder, a Sony HDR-SR11 with no firewire output but a USB. We only record SD video with the Sony HDR camcorder.
- Should we get a firewire card for the computer, or in your experience will it work to import footage from either camera through the firewire on the external hard drive or the USB on the computer?
- Do we need a video capture card, and what should we get?
Well to use your TRV950 it is necessary to have a FireWire card. You cannot use the FireWire connector on your external disk drive.
You probably do not need a capture card unless you need to capture some old analog video.
I really think you could get by with your 32-bit OS and 3-4 GB of RAM for editing SD material. It is far from ideal but might get you started until they push the demands on you. I actually have two systems my 8-core editing system and the old dual core FX60 system. I recently used the old system with CS4 and HDV media and 4 GB of RAM. It is slow that is for sure but it does work.
AND HARM--be careful of what you say about us 70++ seniors and I don't drink coffee my breaks are beer breaks!
Asked my IT guy for computer specs last night and they came through this AM:
HP dx2300
Windows XP Professional SP2
Pentium Dual Core 1.8GHZ
1GB RAM
80 SATA 7200rpm Hard Drive
Integrated Graphics – The memory for your graphics card is shared, so this is why you need a dedicated graphics card to run the Adobe Products
CD-RW
I'm glad to hear that someone has sucessfully used an older system with CS4. It sounds like the decision is how fast I want the program to run... which makes sense. I upgraded to XP back in college on an old system so I could have Microsoft Office and eventually had to install more RAM to function at a speed slower than the slowest tortoise!
If we upgrade to a new computer, would it then be OK to also use the machine as a Word Processor?
Can someone explain the point of a video capture card (or send me to a good resource?). If we don't need one, great! But I'd hate to find out after the fact that we do, indeed need one!
Thanks!
An editing machine, properly set up, can also function for other things.
I often have several Adobe applications running, PrPro, PS, AI and Encore, and also have my word processor going, when I'm doing Title work. Obviously, with multiple applications launched it will take more horsepower, but it's easily doable. Even my laptop is up to the task, but it IS a beefy laptop.
The concept of keeping an editing rig clean, lean and mean, is a very good one. However, in real world situations we often have to compromise a bit.
One thing that I do not have is any Internet presence, while editing, as I shut down all AV, pop-up blockers and spyware sweepers to edit. Even behind a hardware firewall, I will do nothing like Web browsing, or e-mail. Just makes sense. Now, I have those capabilities on my machine (e-mail only on that laptop), but to free all possible resources, I refrain from using them when editing.
For a minimum editing rig, I go along with Harm, that a 3x HDD system is the starting point. The first (your C:\) can be smaller, but needs as much speed as you can get. Use it for only your OS and programs. In the case of a 3x HDD system, you'll probably leave your Windows Virtual Memory (Page File) on the C:\, as well. There are speed advantages to having it elsewhere, but with only 2 more HDD's to play with, C:\ will work. Your other two physical (not partitions) HDD's can be D:\ media and E:\ Projects and Scratch Disks. Speed is good for these, but size is probably the main criterion. SATA II would be my choice of controllers.
CPU power and RAM are important, but too many go for killer CPU's and tons of RAM and totally forget the I/O sub-system, i.e. the HDD's. Do not sacrifice the HDD's for a bump in CPU or RAM. Without the HDD's, those will be nearly useless in the overall scheme of things.
Your video and your audio cards need not be all that robust. A bit more GPU power can be nice for some Effects and Transitions, but with PrPro you don't really need that much.
Good luck,
Hunt
PS Harm's articles are great resources. He starts with basic systems and works up to full-blown editing-only rigs. You do not see that too often.
"For a minimum editing rig, I go along with Harm, that a 3x HDD system is the starting point. The first (your C:\) can be smaller, but needs as much speed as you can get. Use it for only your OS and programs. In the case of a 3x HDD system, you'll probably leave your Windows Virtual Memory (Page File) on the C:\, as well. There are speed advantages to having it elsewhere, but with only 2 more HDD's to play with, C:\ will work. Your other two physical (not partitions) HDD's can be D:\ media and E:\ Projects and Scratch Disks. Speed is good for these, but size is probably the main criterion. SATA II would be my choice of controllers."
Is it necessary to have a second INTERNAL hard drive beyond my C: drive? Where I last worked we had the OS and all programs on the internal hard drive (we had a Mac) and all video editing was done off of that HDD and all project files were stored on external hard drives. This sounds like the same thing to me!
Thank you very much for your perspective and suggestions! Very helpful indeed:)
There is a new computer sub-forum here http://forums.adobe.com/thread/455599
As far as one computer for all things... read http://www.pacifier.com/~jtsmith/ADOBE.HTM
I use a dual boot drive, so you could do the same... boot A for edit only, boot B for everything else
I also use drive swap hardware so I have multiple boot and data drives... if I ever have a boot drive CRASH, I simply put in a different copy
For Sata drives... Vantec MRK-200ST-BK
http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/pro_list/62
$45 full set $35 tray only Sata http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/view_detail/157
Edit... added
This link says it is possible to install multiple copies of Vista for different configurations... I will GUESS the technique will work with Win7
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-us/help/00d076cd-6e10-42d6 -a4ef-de55d9f4c0201033.mspx
So... yes... you may have one computer for different uses
PS - FSB = Front Side Bus... a measure of data transfer speed
Bill Gehrke wrote:
You probably do not need a capture card unless you need to capture some old analog video.
A couple of items back I told you why some people might think you need a capture card.
You do need a firewire card to capture from your miniDV Sony DCR-TRV950.
Your integrated graphics does not meet the Adobe required "1,280x900 display with OpenGL 2.0–compatible graphics card"
Now that we have your CPU identified with that 1.8 GHz processor encoding will take a very very long time, and I doubt that you will be able to successfully edit from your AVCHD from the Sony HDR-SR11 it requires much much more processor power than you have. My dual core AMD processor at 2.6 GHz is an AMD chip which at the time it was new ran rings around the Intel dual core processor that you have. I have to reverse my opinon of your system after examining all the facts. You need a newer better computer especially to edit that AVCHD media..
ZooHeather,
Even if using externals, having multiple physical HDD's (not partitions of one physical HDD) will improve your experience greatly.
I do a lot of editing to/from externals, as I need the portability to do work on my laptop, as well as my workstation. Even the laptop has 3x 200GB 7200RPM SATA II's. I use FW-800 connections for my externals, but eSATA would be even better.
If you do not need the portability of Projects, I would do this:
3x internal HDD's per my (and Harm's) earlier suggestion, and allocate them pretty much the same. Use your external as a media storage unit. I have a NAS drive for much of that. Copy just the Assets that you will need to your D:\ for that/those Project(s). The originals will be on your external(s) for "safe keeping." Unless your external(s) was either FW-800, or eSATA, I would not try to draw the Assets from it to edit. I found that from my gigabit NAS, my USB 2.0 and my FW-400's, this was a painful process and frought with potential problems. I would very strongly suggest against using an NAS, a USB or a FW-400 external for anything except archival storage.
Good luck,
Hunt
PS what happens with a single physical HDD is that you are asking it to try and do about four tasks at the same time. Regardless of its speed, there will be bottle necks. Something will just have to get in line and wait until all other Processes finish. This is very slow and puts a major strain on that one HDD. Fry's (Western US retailer) just had 1TB Seagate (IIRC) 7200RPM internal ATA-300's for US$89.00 with full installation kit. HDD's are very cheap now. I still recall paying about US$400 for my first 10MB MFM HDD to expand up from the OEM 5MB unit. Decades ago, but still very expensive. Not any more. Do yourself a favor and go for the 3x as a minimum. Tell IT that it is the only way to go. I'm a donor to the Phoenix Zoo, and if I knew that they needed a couple of HDD's for editing, guess where my donations would be ear-marked.
zooheather wrote:
Is it necessary to have a second INTERNAL hard drive beyond my C: drive? Where I last worked we had the OS and all programs on the internal hard drive (we had a Mac) and all video editing was done off of that HDD and all project files were stored on external hard drives. This sounds like the same thing to me
Only if the external drive are eSATA interfaced to your system. They provide 2 to 3 times the transfer rate of USB external drives
Bill Gehrke wrote:
You probably do not need a capture card unless you need to capture some old analog video.
"A couple of items back I told you why some people might think you need a capture card.
You do need a firewire card to capture from your miniDV Sony DCR-TRV950."
Can I get some clarification? A firewire card is different from a capture card? What I've been reading online it sounded like a firewire card WAS a capture card.
By the normal terminology they are different beasts entirely. A "capture card" will be something like the Matrox or Black Magic, that does a good bit of the processing too. Prices range from several hundred $'s to many thousands of $'s.
A FireWire card (can also be a connection/controller on the MoBo) is just a link from the MoBo to your device, via FireWire. These can now be had for about US$9. I'd definitely get one with separate controller chips for each FW port on it, plus the fastest bus that you have available on your MoBo. For use with Captureing from or feeding to a FW device, you do NOT want to have any other FW devices on that controller chip. There will very likely be problems.
Good luck,
Hunt
>A firewire card is different from a capture card? What I've been reading online it sounded like a firewire card WAS a capture card
Most people today (wrongly, in my view) interchange the terms
A CAPTURE card is one that accepts an ANALOG input, such as from a VHS or an old camcorder, and DIGITIZES the data stream to then save a computer file... most optimally, as DV AVI type 2 for SD (Standard Definition) video - I know nothing about HD (High Definition) video since I'm still using an old 8mm Sony camcorder and a Pinnacle DV-500 card to "capture" the video
A firewire card is basically a very specialized SERIAL port... similar to the serial ports that have been on computers "forever"
A firewire card does NOT digitize an analog data stream, it will only work to TRANSFER existing digital information from a new(er) camcorder
If you are doing SD (not sure about HD) and you need to digitize, such as from a VHS, there are also external devices which accept analog input from your VHS output... digitize... and then send a digital data stream to the firewire port on your computer
You should go to the Premiere Pro Wiki http://premierepro.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page and read... everything
Added... Grr!
Some day, I'm going to beat Hunt with an answer... maybe if he begins to type with only one finger! ![]()
Thanks for everyone's help! At the end of our fiscal year (late fall 2009) I was able to use all the information you provided and submit to purchase CS4 as well as a new computer!
I haven't been able to use the software much yet, but the faster computer is also handy.
Thanks again!
Heather
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