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Community lens correction works for me

May 27, 2010 7:09 AM

A few days ago lens correction profiles showed up for my D300 with both 16-85VR and 55-200VR lenses.  Brick wall testing indicates they seem to have nailed distortion/CA/vignetting, at least for focal length extremes.

 

So how do we know where these profiles originated, if for no other reason than to give credit?

 

Richard Southworth

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 27, 2010 7:30 AM   in reply to RASouthworth

    If the profile name does not explicitly state it, you still can open the profile with a text editor (it is an XML file, basically) and read the author tag.

     

    <stCamera:Author>Adobe (www.adobe.com)</stCamera:Author>
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 1:35 AM   in reply to RASouthworth

    Excuse me for butting in. I have thousands of 16-85mm/D300 photos, and I wondered how to obtain the 3rd party profiles.

     

    I can't find any way of getting them in ACR, and when I 'search online' in PS, it find the profile, but doesn't seem to add it to ACRs list.

     

    I've tried finding a lens correction downloads area on the Adobe website, but failed. What am I missing?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 1:55 AM   in reply to Yammer

    I just worked out that there's a fly-out menu in PS Lens Correction filter's Lens Profiles list, which enables you to save an online profile locally, after you've searched for and found one.

     

    It then appears in ACR, but not, as I'd expect under Default nor Auto. You have to select Custom. Is this correct?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 9:54 AM   in reply to RASouthworth

    Thanks, I'll have to experiment with that.

     

    Just spotted another problem as a result: was unsure about the quality of the Nikon AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8G lens profile, as I have to do a bit of chromatic aberration correction to do afterwards (which sort of defeats the object). Realised that the profile was made with the D3x (according to the file name), which is a full-frame camera. Mine is the D300, a 1.5x crop camera.

     

    So, is the correction I get on the 24-70mm lens wrong? Do I need another profile done with the right sensor size?

     

    Why is Camera Raw selecting the lens if the profile was made on a different format camera?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 10:46 AM   in reply to Yammer

    The Adobe-supplied profiles are created with a reference camera. In 

    the Nikkor 24-70 case, that is a D3X. The profile can be used on other 

    cameras, including ones with smaller sensors. At present we do not 

    correct all forms of chromatic aberration. The profiles only deal with 

    lateral CA.

     

    Eric

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 11:17 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    MadManChan2000 wrote:

     

    The Adobe-supplied profiles are created with a reference camera. In 

    the Nikkor 24-70 case, that is a D3X. The profile can be used on other 

    cameras, including ones with smaller sensors. At present we do not 

    correct all forms of chromatic aberration. The profiles only deal with 

    lateral CA.

     

    Eric

     

    That doesn't make sense to me. Surely a smaller sensor will produce a significantly different set of distortion and vignette readings, and also the lateral chromatic aberration will be reduced. I am assuming that the ACR correction is made over the whole (cropped) frame, or is the correction applied to a virtual (full) frame 1.5 times larger than the image?

     

    The chromatic aberration I am seeing with the D300/24-70mm combination is lateral, and I am compensating by using the sliders in the manual tab.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 11:44 AM   in reply to Yammer

    Which is why I depend on  DXO corrections. They marry their corrections to the camera. If you don't believe that, compare the lens correction for say the Nikon D80 against the D90. These same lenses will operate on both cameras yet the lens modules for the D90 have less available.

     

    The only place I might consider using the Adobe corrections is for lenses DXO does not cover, like the Tamron 28 to 75.

     

    I cannot understand why Adobe is doing such a casual job on this where software and and data far better suited for the job already exists. Is it "Not invented here" syndrome?

     

    Message was edited by: Hudechrome

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 12:27 PM   in reply to RASouthworth

    Weeds? I guess I am in the wrong business.

     

    Just because you found it  useable does not mean the process is correct.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 1:32 PM   in reply to Yammer

    Yammer P wrote:

     

    That doesn't make sense to me. Surely a smaller sensor will produce a significantly different set of distortion and vignette readings, and also the lateral chromatic aberration will be reduced.

     

    If you profile a lens, you'll want to profile it on the largest sensor you will be using it on. If you then use it on a smaller sensor, the lens profile will still make the corrections even though the amount of corrections needed for the three corrections will be different–milder because the sensor corners of the reduced size sensor will be closer to the center.

     

    When Adobe made their profiles, they profiled lenses that could be used on full frame and reduced size sensors with full frame cameras. There are some lenses that can only be used on reduced size sensors and those lenses were profiled on the sensor size they were made for.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 2:09 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    That is SOP for the measurements.

     

    An interesting read on this subject can be found at:

     

    www.slrgear.com

     

    Find your favorite camera and click on a lens for it that says tested. See what you think.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 3:56 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Jeff Schewe wrote:


    If you profile a lens, you'll want to profile it on the largest sensor you will be using it on. If you then use it on a smaller sensor, the lens profile will still make the corrections even though the amount of corrections needed for the three corrections will be different–milder because the sensor corners of the reduced size sensor will be closer to the center.

    Okay, thanks Jeff. So I take it that you're saying that ACR 6.1 does allow for the smaller crop frame on Nikon DX cameras when it employs a profile made on a full-frame camera? In other words, the camera used to make the profile isn't that important?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 4:55 PM   in reply to Yammer

    Yammer P wrote:

     

    In other words, the camera used to make the profile isn't that important?

     

    Correct...as long as the profile was made using the largest size sensor, it'll work fine for the same lens used on a smaller crop sensor.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 28, 2010 5:19 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    I would at least check it.


     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 29, 2010 1:38 AM   in reply to Hudechrome-sd9sPI

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    I would at least check it.


    How would I check it? Do you mean brick wall tests, etc?

     

    It occurred to me that the CA compensation I was having to use for the 24-70mm may be due to a mismatched profile, because (if you think about it) a profile for a bigger sensor would usually have more CA correction, as it's worse at the edges. However, I'm assured by Jeff that this has been taken into account, so it must just be an inaccuracy in the profile.

     

    I have downloaded a user-contributed profile for the D300/16-85mm combination. This is a mid-priced zoom with worse lateral CA than the other (pro) lens, but the profile seems to work much better, at least in terms of CA correction. That's what started me thinking there was something wrong.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 29, 2010 8:30 AM   in reply to Yammer

    I wasresponding to Jeff's comment concerning DX vs full frame performance. One of the reviews on slrgear actually had a surprise with a full frame lens when checked on DX.. Generally, I would expect as Jeff did, but I never take test and measurement for granted. It sometimes come back to bite you in the nether region!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 31, 2010 8:14 PM   in reply to Yammer

    Yammer, what I meant was that when ACR applies a profile created on a larger sensor (e.g., D700) to an image that was captured by a smaller sensor (e.g., D300), the difference in sensor size (e.g., the crop factor ratio, if you prefer) is accounted for during the rendering. For example, ACR "knows" that a D300 sensor has a ~1.5 crop factor compared to a D700 which has a crop factor of ~1, so the vignette, distortion, and lateral CA that occurs at 21 mm from the center of the image is irrelevant to a D300 (since the D300's sensor is smaller than that). In other words, ACR is taking care of the behind-the-scenes adjustment based on the sensor size differences. It is not blindly applying a D700 profile to a D300 image and pretending they are the same.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 31, 2010 11:17 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    Thanks, Eric. This is what Jeff has said. I was confused by the name of the profile (D3X and 24-70mm), and wasn't positive that ACR was intelligent enough to adjust for the crop factor. Consider me put straight!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2010 4:20 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    I can think of one really good reason why a lens profile should be camera-specific for the best possible results:

     

    Not every sensor responds the same to light coming in from various angles.  Microlenses, for example, are different from sensor to sensor.

     

    So the vignetting profile for one camera might be a general improvement on another, but it may not produce specifically accurate results on that other camera.

     

    You cannot oversimplify the problem and achieve perfection.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2010 7:50 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Correct, it'll depend on the angles of incidence. For example, fast telephotos will vignette a lot wide open but the field of view is so narrow that microlenses play a small role. For wide angle lenses they would play more of a role, but often still much less compared to cos4 law.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 8, 2010 9:27 PM   in reply to RASouthworth

    A couple of questions related here

    1 Is there a list of profiles somewhere that I can find. Somewhere/somehow the Nikon 50 1.4 wasn't profiled nor has the new Nikon 24mm 1.4 been profiled and both could use some work. Is this something adobe will stay on or will this be a once a year update?

    2 Will it be possible to add hassleblad or mamiya mf profiles to this?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 8, 2010 10:12 PM   in reply to Troy House

    1. If you have ACR 6.1 installed, you can browse the available set of lens profiles using the Make/Model/Profile popup menus in the Lens Corrections pane (Profile tab). For example, set Make to Nikon, and you can browse the available set of lens models currently supported (via the Model popup). If you're intending to apply lens corrections when processing raw images, make sure you have a raw image open before you try looking at this popup.

     

    You should expect that Adobe will not sit still on the currently available set of lens profiles included in this release.

     

     

    2. It is possible. In the meantime, you can also create profiles yourself using the Adobe Lens Profile Creator (free download).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 10, 2010 7:05 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    thanks for responding. I was under the impression you could search for other people's profiles as well as adobe's?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 10, 2010 7:16 AM   in reply to Troy House

    You can do this from the Photoshop filter but not from camera raw.  In the PS lens coorrection filter there is a Search Online button at the bottom.  It's pop-up tip reads: "Search Adobe server for lens profiles that match the source image."  I'd guess this Adobe server will be a repository for user-created lens profiles.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 17, 2010 7:29 AM   in reply to RASouthworth

    I assume you downloaded it from somewhere, if so were? I've searched the adobe exchange and did a google search with no luck.

     

    Please share....

     

     

    John Passaneau

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 17, 2010 7:35 AM   in reply to john passaneau

    You need Photoshop CS5 to download user profiles. Use the Lens Correction filter, and click the "Search Online" button to search for new lens profiles.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 17, 2010 4:01 PM   in reply to RASouthworth

    This is so typical adobe. Give you such a great tool and then cripple it. It absolutely needs to be in acr except you can't load other profiles except adobe's in PS5. You can only use adobes profiles in raw acr and LR. And the lenses they are missing aren't exactly obscure, Canon 50 1.2 and the Nikon 50 mm 1.4!

     

    Come on, have an online database where we can ad and download them all and rate them........This is so important going forward.

    Also, has anyone seen any medium format back profiles???

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 17, 2010 9:49 PM   in reply to Troy House

    Did you BOTHER to do a search in the Photoshop CS5 Lens correction filter? If you had, you should have found a profile for the Canon 50mm F/1.2 lens that I created. As for the Nikon 50mm 1.4, I couldn't care less...

     

    Ya know, it would be USEFUL if you spent a moment and had a half a clue before making a post where basically, you shoot yourself in the foot. I DID spend the time to make a good profile and upload it to the profile site. If you can't find it, I suspect it says more about you than the profile site, ya know?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 17, 2010 11:42 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Please show me where this is o' great one???

    Picture 1.jpgPicture 2.jpg
     
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    Jun 17, 2010 11:48 PM   in reply to Troy House

    Troy House wrote:

     

    Please show me where this is o' great one??

     

    Well, the lens I profiled was a Canon EFS 50mm F/1.2  lens...I didin't profile amy Sigma lenses...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 17, 2010 11:52 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    This isn't a sigma. If you will look in the lower left corner it says canon 50 1.2 II

    I was showing all the 50mm lenses that  load for canon and they are 2 sigmas, and the canon 50 1.8 and the canon 50 1.4. No 1.2. If it is there I would love it but it is not there.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 18, 2010 12:39 AM   in reply to Troy House

    Troy House wrote:

     

    Please show me where this is o' great one???


    Does this help?

    LCSO.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 18, 2010 6:26 AM   in reply to john passaneau

    OK I see were I can "hunt" for profiles inside CS5. One of my cameras is a Canon G-11 I see a profile in ACR 6.1 for the G10 but not for a G11 in CS5 there is no profiles for any of the G series cameras. So the list of cameras/lens between the two programs are not synchronised. So here is the question is there a way to add profiles to ACR 6.1? At the moment there is only one of the lens I own in either ACR 6.1 or CS5. In CS5 there is no listing for any of my cameras models. It looks like lens correction will someday be a great tool but right now it's only useful if you hit the lottery and your lens is listed. I will attempt sometime to do my own profiles but from a quick look at the process, it's not a quick or easy thing.

     

     

    John Passaneau

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 18, 2010 10:01 AM   in reply to john passaneau

    Raw profiles that are downloaded from CS5 will show up in ACR 6.1 when 

    processing raw images. Same for JPEGs. You can also build your own 

    profile using Lens Profile Creator.

     

    Eric

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 18, 2010 3:40 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Actually I figured out the issue and it says a lot about me and adobe. Since adobe spend so much time wanting information from me I have installed little snitch to stop their intrusions and it was keeping me from accessing the files so I did find it.

    You do have a lot of knowledge and expertise Jeff it's just to bad its wrapped in such an awful personality. Between here and LL you are one of the most gruff humans alive. Why patrol the boards leaving such awful feedback if you hate it so?

     
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    Jun 18, 2010 6:50 PM   in reply to Troy House

    Troy House wrote:

     

    Why patrol the boards leaving such awful feedback if you hate it so?

     

    Actually, I spend more time helping people which I enjoy. I do however tend to respond poorly to people who jump on Adobe without reason such as your comment "This is so typical adobe. Give you such a great tool and then cripple it." Which lead me to answer the way I answered...ironic that it was something YOU had done that made finding the profiles you wanted impossible...you'll note the other posts in this thread BEFORE you came around WERE informational in nature...so, not only do you have your own actions to blame for not finding the profiles, you also can also thank yourself for bringing out the best in me. Hope you find the 50mm F1.2 profile useful now that you've figured out how to use the tool to find it.

     
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