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InDesign Backwards Compatibility in CS5 an MAJOR issue

May 18, 2010 7:01 AM

  Latest reply: Harbs., May 29, 2011 6:13 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2010 7:17 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Our design department has over ten artists, who don't all have a Mac computer with a multi-core processor. So while we are going to upgrade from CS3 to CS5, only a handful of us can actually use the new software until we can get the remaining new computers in house. This is a frustrating problem, because now there will be a steep learning curve, and we need to plan out who works on what project so that we don't get stuck. Having CS3 running on the new multicore computers (that automatically come with Snow Leopard) would be ideal, so that our learning curve could be more gradual and not as frustrating.

     

    That said, I've done some experiementing, and although I've heard that CS3 does not work on the new Macs, I have found that it DOES. We're not using complex inDesign files with multiple pages, text linkages, and all that fancy stuff. So I'd like to share the news with possible readers out there to give it a try, it might not be so painful after all.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2010 7:21 AM   in reply to aart_depaartment

    Who told you CS3 wouldn't work? CS2 would be a real crapshoot but CS3 should be just fine until you get everyone up an running.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2010 7:22 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    I read that on some forums while researching CS5. Boy am I glad that 

    was wrong information!

     
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    Jun 25, 2010 7:31 AM   in reply to aart_depaartment

    Brutally wrong...don't believe everything you read...even here.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2010 11:02 PM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    If it's any help, I have CS5 and CS4, and I use both for different purposes and clients.

     

    If I know a client is on CS4 or CS3, then I'll start the workflow in CS4.

     

    If I'm not collaborating or if the client is on CS5, then I'll work in CS5.

     

     

    But honestly, I am finding CS5 to be pretty unstable, and it's crashing and hanging a lot.  CS4 is perfect.  CS5 is buggy.

     

     

    I don't mind at all working in CS4 in the interum.

     
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    Jul 2, 2010 3:10 AM   in reply to KVL_NY

    That's great! Unfortunately...CS4 isn't even available for purchase (unless I go on Ebay or something) so all I'll have is 3 and 5. BUT I've been doing some testing, and it looks like 3 actually is working on the new Mac G5, so perhaps it's not as terrible as I feared.

     

    Best,

    Nicole

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 6:13 AM   in reply to Eugene Tyson

    Thanks...I should've been more specific. It's not available for the 

    Creative Suite Design Premium. I had it bookmarked from Amazon and 

    JUST as I was about to buy one copy of the suite, it was marked "not 

    available". We had combined/bundled our serial numbers years ago, now 

    we can only ugrade each license but it has to be the whole suite. I 

    spoke with Adobe directly, and they said they can install it 

    backwards compatible for an additional cost - which would have been 

    like buying BOTH CS4 and 5.

     

    Thanks so much for your help, much appreciated!

     

    Best,

    N

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 8:13 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    P Spier wrote:

     

    Jeremy AB wrote:


    In regards to the main topic, I would never give my customers the raw InDesign file anyway so it doesn't matter what version I am running. This is what PDFs are for. If a customer insists on being able to edit the file then they would have to keep up with the upgrades when I do.

    So you wouldn't take a job creating a template if the client wants it in a version you don't own -- not that I think you should, mind you, but others here feel they should have the ability, and I agree that there should be a way to buy the previous licenses to accomodate them. I would never suggest "downsizing" a late version file as anything but an emergency solution.

    In the rare instances that a client has asked me to supply the file in an editable format to them, I ask them if they have InDesign and if not are they willing to spend the money on purchasing a copy. That usually ends the conversation right there. Either that, or they ask me to send it in Word format (shudder). My feelings are that I am the designer, not the client, so if they need design work I will take care of it for them and charge them accordingly. I am also very protective of my work and not comfortable with someone mucking around with it. That said, if a client insisted then they would have to keep up with the versions if I do. Either that or they should stick to Word or Publisher so they can handle it themselves. Thankfully I've almost never encountered any of this, so I guess that's why this thing is a very minor issue for me.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 9:05 PM   in reply to Jeremy AB

    I think for a LOT of designers this IS a major issue.

     

    For instance, one of my clients, is a very big national marketing firm which has tons of work and pays very, very well, regularly commission designers from all over the country to create and craft the initial design for various projects.

     

    Once the design is completed the InDesign Package is collected and given to thier production department to be set to their printing standards, as well as any future minor copy changes.   Then they commission another project.  This is a very lucrative relationship.

     

    They are currently on CS4.  For them to upgrade to CS5 they have to upgrade their entire company of 500+ staff and production department.  So for them it's a big deal.  They will be on CS4 for a long time still.

     

    I'd like to be able to create files for them in CS5 but it's just not realistic since downgrading is very difficult and it doesnt' retain a lot of the design formatting.  There would be too many foreseable problems, and in their case,  if a designer is creating files that are giving the production team headaches, there are plenty of other designers waiting for the work.  Especially now in this economy...

     

    I think in those instances where you can be protective of your files, only send PDF's,  is not really in the majority of real work out there. The landscape of boutique work is changing just a bit in my opinion.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 9:29 PM   in reply to KVL_NY

    KVL_NY wrote:

     

    Once the design is completed the InDesign Package is collected and given to thier production department to be set to their printing standards, as well as any future minor copy changes.   Then they commission another project.  This is a very lucrative relationship.

     

    In the case of your example, if this relationship is as lucrative as you state, then I would stick with whatever version they are using. If you already own CS4 and that's what they use, then any work you do for them, do it in that version. It's all about managing your projects properly and using the tool, program and version that's right for the job. If you upgrade to CS5, you could perhaps use it for other projects though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2010 9:49 PM   in reply to Jeremy AB

    You're right.  Exactly what I was suggesting earlier in the thread.  I have CS4 and CS5 for the purposes mentioned.

     

    If I had to use CS5 only and work around the downward compatibilty issue, it would drive me nuts.

     

    I think that's what a lot of people on this thread are suggesting.  That Adobe just make CS5 downward compatible so that a designer doesn't need to own both copies.

     

    Have a good holiday.

     

     

    ;-)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2010 6:16 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    I simply cannot understand how somebody who is in business for themselves can claim that they're not turning over enough money that they can't afford an upgrade every 18 months or so. I do know there's more to an upgrade than the $199 cost for the box of software, but what are you in business for if you don't want the new tools that can give you a competitive edge?

     

    I'm always on the edge of my seat waiting for "The Next Big Thing", whether software or hardware... even getting burned using beta software.

     

    I'm 63 and have run my own graphic design and advertising agency businesses all my working life, in Australia and here in the US. With a positive attitude you can make a lot of money in this business.

     

    Do I miss cutting Rubylith? Not likely. But, please, forget being a Luddite and enjoy this exciting business and its wonderful new creative tools.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 7:08 AM   in reply to Wayne Guy

    Yes, of course--about as much as I miss opaqueing (sp?) negs on a 

    light table!

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 7:21 AM   in reply to peterpica

    Doing what on who? :-)

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 8:14 AM   in reply to peterpica

    Hey, my very first job!

     

    The special red ink pens alone costed my first boss a couple of $100 a year. He sometimes complained me using too much of them, but if he needed to re-make a costly printing plate because of a missed dot I'd really done it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 12:54 PM   in reply to [Jongware]

    And don't forget if your hand slipped and you opaqued part of the film that you weren't supposed to, you had to scrape it off with an X-acto knife.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 1:05 PM   in reply to Michael Gianino

    Who's hand ever slipped?

     

    My biggest problem was keeping cigarette ashes from dropping and 

    burning the film!

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 4:13 PM   in reply to peterpica

    It taught me to read mirrored and upside down text as easy as anything. Not something I can use in everyday life, though -- I don't spend much time standing on my head behind shop windows.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2010 4:17 PM   in reply to [Jongware]

    Was great being able to read quotation summation sheets and/or 

    purchase orders from the other side of the desk too... so you could 

    see what you were up against.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2010 8:49 AM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    Wow. After just slogging through this entire thread I must say I'm quite turned off by the condescension present here. In my past experience with Adobe forums (I had another username prior to my current one) the "elders" were helpful, considerate and generous. I felt better and more knowledgeable after visiting. Definitely not true here.

     

    I came to this forum with a question: Even if it means loss of some data/features, can I save down from CS5 to CS3? Suddenly I found myself in a flurry of crap and errant assumptions. I am disappointed in the posters who have taken a legitimate question or concern in this thread and answered with (I paraphrase) "That's stupid. Also, why can't you see that you're an idiot and cheapskate?"

     

    I am a young designer. I saved up my money through wise planning and fiscal responsibility and purchased CS5 Design Premium. This was a personal investment because I take my career seriously, though my money and how I use it is really none of anyone's business and should have no bearing on this topic.

     

    Persons I need to share files with have InDesign CS3. Again, the reasons or circumstances for which I need to share InDesign files instead of PDFs have no bearing here. It is not my place to force upgrades on these people. It is not my place as a young graphic artist to turn my nose at clients who are "less sophisticated" than others. (Which isn't even the case, as these particular persons have not upgraded due to this very compatibility issue and their relationship with vendors using CS3.)

     

    So, apparently, the only answer to my question is that I'm supposed to go find every past version of InDesign? Though I can't get them through Adobe? And though when I checked just now on Amazon, for instance, InDesign CS3 for Mac was "currently unavailable?"

     

    Bob, you said:

    If it was every customer, these forums would be flooded with complaints. While I understand the frustration, the evidence points to a very small number of people that have been horribly inconvenienced.

     

    Perhaps it could be considered that this particular thread has not progressed as a very welcome place for people to express their concerns.

     

    ETA: Before anyone brings it up, yes, I already submitted my complaint/feature request to Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2010 8:52 AM   in reply to blustery

    Blustery, it's more a reaction to the "outrage" of apparent new users of CS5 who seem to perceive the 'usual' back-saving abilities has somehow been crippled with this new version.

     

    InDesign cannot save back more than one version, and it never could, and it's not the only program that cannot do this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2010 8:58 AM   in reply to blustery

    I'm afraid you're reading way too much into what's been said here.

     

    For the most part, the people who want to save back two versions have phrased that in the way of rant, as though anyone here could do anything about it and even more so, that it was our fault.

     

    But I will take issue with some of your points. You can't just pop into a support forum with a complaint without being willing to listen to questions and explain why you're trying to do something. Those questions are being posed to you to try and help.

     

    I'm sorry if you find it somehow offensive, but it is what it is. InDesign can only save back one version and has never been able to save back two versions. Since you've already filed your request with Adobe, you've done all you can.

     

    Good luck in your career and be aware that Adobe has historically put out upgrades every eighteen months or so. If you bought Design Premium you can start saving about $1.20/day for an upgrade to CS6.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2010 9:02 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    For what it's worth, I'd like to add to Bob's rationality here... InD 

    upgrades have always more than paid for themselves in a very short ROI 

    period. What more can one REASONABLY expect from Adobe here?

     

    Enough said.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2010 9:12 AM   in reply to [Jongware]

    I understand, Jongware. Though I just recently purchased CS5 for myself, I've been using InDesign since CS in college and have run into the problem of version compatibility numerous times before.

     

    I have a lot of faith and loyalty in Adobe, despite things that don't work quite the way I want, and I guess I wish they would take the time to figure out ways to make files able to be opened [obviously with limitations, I understand] in previous versions, even though this has never been true before. Adobe is consistently trying to make things true that have never been true before.

     

    It also needs to be said that for people just starting out, with only CS5 available to them for all practical purposes and without the luxury of previous versions installed on their machines, this lack of backward compatibility really sucks. Even if it's nothing new. Even if other programs have the same issue.

     

    ETA:

    But I will take issue with some of your points. You can't just pop into a support forum with a complaint without being willing to listen to questions and explain why you're trying to do something. Those questions are being posed to you to try and help.


    I did not at all mean to "pop into a support forum," complain, and leave. I think my point is that it's a legitimate question, no matter what the circumstances.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2010 2:26 PM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    Just as an FYI, we have attempted the CS3>CS4>CS5 change path as suggested by Adobe and the issues carry from one version to the next to the next.  It is ridiculous that you cannot open a CSx file in CS5 and expect stability or AT LEAST the ability to covert the file to a working format.  We have tried everything under the sun on multiple systems and both PC and Mac platforms and nothing has worked to resolve this for us. 

     

    So basically we just spent the equivalent cost of a small car to upgrade to the latest and greatest release from Adobe only to bring our department to a stand still.  Converting hundreds of files manually via copy/paste and reconstruction would be a huge expense in time and effort we cannot afford, so we are forced to roll all of our systems back to CS3 and pray that someone at Adobe starts to care enough about their customers to fix the issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2010 2:31 PM   in reply to AZ Devman

    Your issues is considerably different from what's being discussed here.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2010 2:37 PM   in reply to AZ Devman

    Just as an equally off-topic FYI, you don't have to rollback your system to run CS3. If you had it installed, you can still use it as before. The only thing newer versions add is, by default, all documents will open with that new version.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2010 3:14 PM   in reply to [Jongware]

    While we should be able to install both versions, our volume license forces removal of the previous version prior to installation. I have posted a separate thread to address our issue which is backwards of this one.

     
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    Jul 28, 2010 3:23 PM   in reply to AZ Devman

    There is no license I know of that forces the uninstallation of an earlier version. The license as I read it calls for an unspecified transition period though the terms of the license are ruled by the current version.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 1:30 AM   in reply to AZ Devman

    You say you've tried everything. Did that include exporting as .inx from CS3 and opening that in CS5? Probably not, if you uninstalled CS3 first.

     

    I have personally not seen any issues with legacy files in CS5, though I don't do a lot of work that requires opening legacy files. I have a suspicion, though, that at least some of the issues may be related to work habits like re-using the same file by deletting content, doing a save as, and renaming for a new issue of a newsletter or magazine. I don't know if that's something you do, but over time it tends to magnify any minor corruptions that creep into a documment. ID is far stabler than PM was in this regard, or, in my opinion, Quark, but it is not immune and we see occasional reports of file loss because of it. If you have a recurrinig-layout type of publication you really should be using templates and starting each document from a fresh copy of the template.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 3:55 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Boy does that sound like a Quark Syndrome if I ever heard one!

     

    '-(

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 4:05 AM   in reply to peterpica

    I didn't have all that much trouble with Quark (or maybe I've surpressed the memories -- I certainly know how to copy everything and paste into a new doc), but ee used to use PM at a newspaper where I worked briefly, and it wasn't a lot of fun when the whole edition self-destructed an hour before it was supposed to be on press.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 4:27 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    deja vu!!!!!

     

    We used PM too only because of Quack's undependability (relative to PM of course)...

     

    plus at that time, Quack was limited to single pages, so I'm going back quite a few disasters.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 4:34 AM   in reply to aart_depaartment

    Just FYI,

     

    If you can demostrate that you need to add a workstation to an existing workgroup, it is possible to get  a downgrade license to add more CS3/CS4 stations when purchasing a CS5 license.

     

    You need to purchase from a knowledgable reseller, or at least a knowledgable salesperson at Adobe, but I believe the latter is very hard to find...

     

    (If anyone needs help in this area, they can send me a PM, and I might be able to help...)


    Harbs

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 5:53 AM   in reply to AZ Devman

    Hi! What's the title of the new thread? I'm interested in following 

    it, as I'm in the process of upgrading our department to Snow Leopard 

    and CS5 and still maintain productivity as we move from 3 to 5.

     

    Best,

    N

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 6:08 AM   in reply to aart_depaartment

    Here's my advice re:Snow Leopard. Do a clean install.

     

    Bob

     
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    Jul 29, 2010 7:12 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Actually we have tried exporting from CS3 in inx file format and opening that in both CS4 and CS5.  We currently are working with some of my team on CS3 and some of us on CS5 while attempting to troubleshoot the issue.  As of this morning we are installing the entire CS5 suite on all of our systems and InDesign CS3 as a dual install so we can actually get some work down for the first time since Friday.  I have detailed what we have tried here...

     

    http://http://forums.adobe.com/post!reply.jspa?thread=689483

     

    As Bob pointed out, my issue is the complete opposite as what was originally noted in this thread (sorry, didn't read it correctly before posting), so I created another thread so as to not jack this one with my issues. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 8:07 AM   in reply to AZ Devman

    Your link is wonky there: 2 http://'s in it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2010 8:16 AM   in reply to Cynthia Ryan Graphic

    I work full time and freelance on the side. My employer did not upgrade to CS4 due to the economy and other considerations. When we found out that CS5 would only work on Intel Macs, it necesitated the upgrade of about half of our computers--a costly affair, but we do build regular upgrades into the budget, so we gritted our teeth and did it. As soon as CS5 actually went on sale, we ordered 3 new computers and put in an order for (not CS5) CS4.  We installed CS4 on everyone's computer and then ordered the free upgrade to CS5. Most of our computers now have all 3 versions installed. Our contract editors had to buy their own versions of CS5 Incopy to stay with us.  Unfortunately for at least one of them, this included a necessary computer upgrade because the Macbook purchased 2 years ago wasn't Intel. This particular editor is switching platforms since she can't afford a new Mac (she can get a new PC notebook with all the software for less than the purchase of an Intel Mac). Because the main corporation did the upgrade, it forced everyone else to do it too.  It made some people unhappy, but it's part of the cost of doing business.

     

    On the personal side, I upgraded to CS4 a year ago.  I can't afford the CS5 upgrade quite yet, but I am planning to get it eventually. I still have CS3 on my computer. I don't have a lot of clients, but when I deliver files to the ones I have, I just tell them what version the files are and that's it.  They want the files for their archives, whether they can open them or not. I support all my files for as long as the client needs me to support them, so it shouldn't matter to them whether they can open them.

     

    The backwards compatibility of ID may be an important issue for collaborative users. . . however, I have to side with those who want a stable ID over one that is able to backsave multiple steps back.  I've been in the business long enough to remember how unstable PageMaker was because it was built consistently on old code and never cleaned up and truly updated. ID is staying fairly clean and stable because Adobe doesn't try to maintain the compatibilty that would bulk up the program and make it unstable. I like having the new features and a mostly stable program. If Adobe hadn't offered the CS5 upgrade free to recent CS4 purchasers (once CS5 was announced), I'd probably be unhappy because we'd have had the same issue people are complaining about here. But Adobe did support that concern by allowing users to upgrade to CS4 (for a period of time) and get CS5 for free. I think that fulfills their obligation to their users regarding backwards compatibility.  I don't mean to be insensitive, but I really don't see that this is  Adobe's problem. I agree that they should concentrate on producing the  best product and not spending an inordinate amount of time on maintaining the users that won't upgrade--for whatever reason.

     

    Regarding new users who are not compatible with old users because they don't have the older versions. I agree that could be a problem, and I sympathize with you, but I honestly don't think that is Adobe's fault. It's bound to be a problem regardless of whatever you do for a living that newcomers to an industry may be at a disadvantage--part of being new.

     

    To be honest, I think the Mac Intel only requirement for CS5 is the bigger issue than backward compatibility. It's costing a lot of people a lot of headaches.  Especially when the new Macs come with Snow Leopard, which brings a whole new load of issues to the table. I'm happy that personally I've chosen to use a Windows platform, which so far has mostly run the various versions of Windows and Adobe apps without too much trouble.

     

    All that said, I agree with the person who asked for the files to associate with their last-saved-in version. For those of us working in mutliple versions on the same computer, it would be nice to be able to tell which version of software the file was last opened in, rather than have everything default to CS5. I don't mind dragging the files to the correct app, but it's really annoying when I'm trying to quickly output files and I can't remember which file was last opened where and then I waste time doing the trial error method. I also wish that third-party plugins were easier to erase when converting files. It's not helpful for CS5 to tell me it's missing the plugin if it doesn't give me a way to strip out the plugin (the IDML export does it, but you often don't know that you need to do it until you reopen the newly converted and saved file and it opens untitled with the plugin warning again). Most of the documents didn't even use the plugin to begin with.

     
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