For years, friends and colleagues have nagged to try a Mac, because of the design work I do

How often do we see this piece of nonsense!

It might have had some relevance years ago but not any more.

I have worked (and lectured on Photoshop) using both platforms.

Anyone who wants to buy a 3 year old computer for 83,5% of original price deserves whatever they get.

Edit: actually this is a good example of what I've been saying all along: the Mac myth has long since lost any connection to facts.

The facts are what's on paper (theoretical) or how it is in real life (pratical)?

To me it seems that many times when comparing Mac and Windows it's all about how it looks ”on paper”, not how things are ”as a whole” in real life.

Anyone who wants to buy a 3 year old computer for 83,5% of original price deserves whatever they get.

… what they will get is a fully functioning machine, that isn't going to be falling over in the next 6 years. Because its a mac,and has hardware specifically designed to integrate with the OS. It still has value. If it were a PC it would probably have devalued by more than 50%

Reynolds (Mark) wrote:

 

You won't have to worry about system crashes

And it's simply not true. Anyone can count the number of crash threads he

Thats just nonsense  - the machine I referenced above has not had a single system crash in 3 years. I see hardly any OS 'crash threads' at all on the mac forum, apart from one or two where people don't have the first idea how to maintain their machine.

Here we go again – a theoretical link showing that all Macs crash just as much as any other computer just because it can?

If you ask a random Mac user the change is big that the person has never seen a Kernel Panic. I've tried and I know that is the case.

There has been (and probably still are) a few software bugs that can trigger a Kernel Panic, but I think it's rare that it happens because of software, but rather bad hardware. On a Windows machine the risk of getting a blue screen is higher (just like the change of getting malware into your operating system is higher) simply because there are so many different vendors of both hardware and software. I'm not saying a Windows machine can't work better than a Mac, but it requires more knowledge and time spent from the user. I really think Windows 7 is a good OS on the surface, but you still have the a higher risk for malware, DLLs and the REgistry and more hardware/software conflicts. Don't you agree?

At the same time one can argue that things should work even better than they do on the Mac side considering Apple is both the software and hardware vendor for their machines. The bugs Chris Cox are talking about that's in Mac OS X shouldn't really be there in the first place one can think.

Reynolds (Mark) wrote:

what they will get is a fully functioning machine

...that will be hopelessly outdated. I have a fully functioning machine in the basement too, but I'm not selling.

I see hardly any OS 'crash threads' at all on the mac forum, apart from one or two where people don't have the first idea how to maintain their machine.

Well, I'd say it's a little more than one or two. And poor maintenance is as cross-platform as it gets. We can safely take that out of the equation.

---

But all of this is not really the point, Mark. I'm not out to bash Mac. I like Mac, I could easily work on one if that's what I had.

What I object to is blind faith that is not anchored in real facts. I object to people making decisions based on unsubstantiated hype and brilliant marketing, and I object even more when people are actively being encouraged to do so.

You'll notice that neither I, nor JJ, nor Marian, has ever claimed that one platform is superior to the other. They both have strengths and weaknesses. It's down to personal preferences. What we're saying is that the choice should be based on realities, not patently false myths created by slick marketing.

Well I see I'm not getting anywhere with Mark The Rock....

So let me just round this off with a funny little story. In a cafe the other day I overheard two kids discussing whatever stuff they were doing on their computers. One complained that he couldn't find his files, they were all over the place. And the other said...you guessed it..."You should get a Mac".

Ok let me concentrate then on your phrase "Blind Faith". This implies that there is some factual evidence or material consideration that I am ignoring. Instead, I am blindly making a decision, ignoring the obvious facts to the contrary. Hang on a minute …this seems familiar …  have you two examined the obvious facts at all in the last 15 years?

I am not saying that Mac is prone to crashing or is any worse than another platform

…its a damn sight less prone to crashing than Windows. And the experience of countless users would support this without contradiction.

I am simply pointing out how Apple disagrees with Mark.

In not sure Apple 'disagrees' with me. Apple chooses to put helpful information on its site for its users. Even the stupid ones. Although personally I think those ones should be left out to dry - They are always searching the Apple site for obscure 1990's "blue screen of death" equivalents, and claiming to own Apple machines that they don't. Sigh

You only make yourself look like an idiot.

…and Lord knows I don't want to do that

The number of users are countless because you have no clue how to count them.

I'm thinking of using a 1930's abacus. If it breaks I'll compromise and swap to that old Windows laptop I've got in the basement.

Maybe my experience can add something to your question. What you are talking about is very similar to the situation I faced quite recently. I don’t claim much technical knowledge and quite honestly I am not interested in computers beyond their allowing me to make the art I want to in the most efficient and reliable way. I output photographs at up to 150cm x 120cm  with file sizes running into the region of 2 - 4gb.

I used to run a Windows PC that sound very like the one you are using 64bit Vista, 4gb ram. It was a little slow, but not catastrophically so. What used to frustrate me was the frequency of crashes, freezes and thus the number of times I needed to reboot it. One particularly frustrating day last October I experienced crash after crash and eventually I was so angry with it that I told it “when you boot up again I’m using you to buy a Mac”. I had been thinking of replacing it anyway, but had intended to by another PC. The switch was made on a whim and I suppose influenced by people I know who swear by Macs and say they don’t crash. I set a budget of £2000 and bought a Mac Pro quad core with 8gb of RAM. I would have liked more RAM but it was too expensive (no doubt I will increase the RAM at some point). I already had a LaCie 24inch monitor so an iMac  would have been silly and also there is more expandability on the Mac Pro (beside which iMacs have a glossy screen, which is a non starter for serious photographic work).

Have I regretted it? No. Since October I have not had a single crash, no blue screen of death, no freezes, no problems at all. All my Windows machines in the past have crashed from the get go, and become more and more prone to crashes as time went on. My point is that I am not a techie type, I need the computer to make Art with and that is it. I don’t want to spend time doing maintenance and tweaking things to keep the machine running at its best. In short I guess to many of you I treat my computers with little respect. With this in mind the Mac has been superb. I haven’t had to do anything, other than instal programmes as and when I have bought them. I added a second hard drive and it took a couple of minutes because the inside of the Mac was so uncluttered and intuitively structured. There was a week or so of pain whilst I got the hang of the way the UI etc on a Mac works and then I was fine. Even things like the keyboard seem better made and thought out. The only thing I don’t like is the mouse, but like most PS users I do my work with a tablet anyway. I also like the fact that unlike most PCs I see, the Mac is a thing of beauty and looks very nice sitting by my desk and whilst it is perhaps a trivial consideration it does mean something to have things around you that fit William Morris’s dictum: “have nothing in your home that you don’t know to be useful or believe to be beautiful”. I liked the Mac so much I have just ditched my Windows laptop and bought a MacBook Pro.

I don’t know if my experience chimes with you, but I thought I would offer it anyway. I do not claim to be neutral nor objective, this is just my personal experience, so no more than an anecdote. I have been delighted with the Mac and would not swap back. I am aware that perhaps £2000 spent on a Windows machine would have given me as good a level of performance.