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joe bloe premiere 4,391 posts
Dec 6, 2009
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CS5 can not output MPE to external DV device

May 17, 2010 5:37 PM

This is quite a surprise for those of us who rely on DV output.

_______________________________________________

 

Harm Millaard:


"An MPE card stops external monitor viewing."


"The problem is that CUDA does not currently support output
on DV devices, only full screen  second displays (DVI, DisplayPort, etc)."


"...one serious limitation, those who use dual monitors for editing and

a third monitor for full screen display and color grading or that use the

fire wire connection to record DV/HDV back to tape.

Some may think tape is dead, but there are numerous people around

that still like to jeep their final cut on a master tape."


"The basic problem is how to get a DV signal back over firewire for

exporting to tape or display on an external monitor and that currently is a CUDA problem."


"It must be resolved. If not, the introduction of CS5 / MPE as a game changer

can quickly turn into a game stopper.
I think (purely personal opinion)  Adobe and nVidia must correct this ASAP

Otherwise you end up with a SNAFU."

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2010 6:31 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Joe,

     

    Before this creates a stampede / panic, this only applies to hardware enabled MPE. If you use CUDA/MPE, the workaround is to switch to software MPE and then everything works as expected. However, switching from hardware to software MPE also means that the timeline may need to be rendered again.

     

    Adobe is aware of the problem and working on it, but they may be dependent on nVidia to solve the driver issues.

     

    We'll just have to wait and see.

     

    My experiences with this bug:

    1. Start with hardware MPE, no audio or video on external monitor
    2. Change to software MPE, display and audio on external monitor
    3. Display on PM.
    4. Change back to hardware MPE, frozen display on external monitor and  no sound. Plays OK in PM. When playback is stopped, the external view is  updated.
    5. Switch to another application and return to PR, the external view  turns to black on playback.

     
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    May 18, 2010 1:30 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    What do you want us to say as CPs?

     

    It's broken, and we, like you, hope it gets fixed soon.

     

    For now, set your projects to software rendering when you need external DV output.  MPE in software mode isn't exactly small potatoes.  It's significantly faster than CS4.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 25, 2010 8:11 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I've managed to set up an acceptable system (for my needs anyway) using the MPE.

    Using two quadro fx3800 graphics cards, although I'm not sure whether you need the secondary card to be the same as your primary CUDA one. This should work with any decent secondary graphics card on a suitable workstation (I think!).

     

    My primary FX3800 card outputs to one monitor for the program and one preview out (via a dvi/vga to s-video converter box) to my CRT broadcast monitor.

    Then my secondary card outputs my second monitor display for my dual screen setup. essentially its a three screen setup as my crt is always displaying part of my desktop until Premiere previews through it. This is actually more useful for me as it gets more use than previously through firewire, As I can make use of it when not using Premiere or AE.

    Then If I need to export to tape I'll have to switch to software renderer but hopefully that will change in the future.

     

    Initially I tried to preview out to my CRT through my secondary FX3800 but I was dropping frames (on the preview monitor not the program monitor) so I assume that MPE is only working on the primary card as theres no sli support for this card on my system.

    So for me this is a stellar improvement over CS4 so I can't complain too much, still hoping Adobe/Nvidia will fix the firewire out soon though!

     
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    May 29, 2010 7:31 PM   in reply to Jeff Bellune

    How do I set my projects to software rendering?

     
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    May 29, 2010 7:36 PM   in reply to FreelancerJanice

    MPE is the Mercury Playback Engine?  MIne is set to software as my video card doesn't support it.  When I export to tape it starts recording but there is no picture or sound.  Am I missing something?  Please help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 29, 2010 8:15 PM   in reply to FreelancerJanice

    You are correct, MPE = Mercury Playback Engine.

     

    Hunt

     
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    May 30, 2010 4:01 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I am trying to ouput my timeline to mini-dv.  PPro CS5 shows it controls the camera and it says it is recording but I have black video and no sound.  Is there some setting I need to change to get this to work correctly?  I am not sure how the MPE fits into this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2010 4:10 AM   in reply to OWoman

    With MPE on, there is a problem giving out a DV signal over firewire. For exporting to tape, MPE must be turned to software only.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2010 5:11 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Thank you.  I got it to work, what I was missing is setting out the Sequence Playback settings so the video and audio would be output to my DV device instead of the computer.  I am surprised how hard it was for me to find this information but very happy to have it working.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2010 1:22 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I have succesfully bypassed the problem by switching MPE to Software only.  Thanks to all for the advice.  Can anyone advise how I will know when Adobe/nVidia have fixed the problem?

     

    J Eaton

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 7, 2010 6:13 PM   in reply to carny_

    In CS3, I found that moving the program panel to another display and making it large

    as the "program video" was not workable.

     

    At this point, with CS5, I've tried it and it works.  I can have my UI program panel on my 30" display AND use my AJA Kona card, wheras with the external device setting, it was obviously one or the other.

     

    For the DV people, my suggestion is try simply dragging the program panel out to a display and see if that works for you...

     

    That way your external device drives the whatever it is on the end of your FW cable, and you free up the UI space the program monitor panel was taking up on top of it.

     

    It seems to work for me (though I don't have a DV device to test it with...)

     

    I'll probably be altering most of my 4 display workspaces to this method and trying it for a while...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 8, 2010 7:59 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    The first post about this CS5 bug was in May.  It is now Augusut and still no fix? 

     

    Every time I'm about to place my order for CS5, I find out about another "gotcha' problem.  I'm still on CS3 and am seriously wondering whether I should continue to move forward with Premiere.

     

    I still use an older "DPS Velocity Quattrus" system and it still leaves Premiere in the dust.  Unfortunately Harris, who bought Leitch/who bought DPS, has discontinued the product.  A software developer from Itlay is attempting to breathe life into it (ivsEdits.com), but it isn't a fully operational system.

     

    Yes, "Firrewire" output is still a Big Deal.  There are many of us who use our editing systems as a business tool.  Going back and disabling the Mercury Engine, then re-rendering as "software only" is a waste of my time.

     

    Come On, Adobe & Nvidia, get this fixed!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 8, 2010 8:12 AM   in reply to J Graves

    For DV(CAM) work I have found out you don't need the MPE on my i7 980X machine.

    It provides real time editing even with multiple tracks and effects.

    Correct me if I am wrong but the MPE is optimized for HD work.

    In other words, you are safe to upgrade to CS5 from CS3.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 8, 2010 10:52 AM   in reply to J Graves

    J Graves wrote:

     

    The first post about this CS5 bug was in May.  It is now Augusut and still no fix? 

     

    Every time I'm about to place my order for CS5, I find out about another "gotcha' problem.  I'm still on CS3 and am seriously wondering whether I should continue to move forward with Premiere.

     

    I still use an older "DPS Velocity Quattrus" system and it still leaves Premiere in the dust.  Unfortunately Harris, who bought Leitch/who bought DPS, has discontinued the product.  A software developer from Itlay is attempting to breathe life into it (ivsEdits.com), but it isn't a fully operational system.

     

    Yes, "Firrewire" output is still a Big Deal.  There are many of us who use our editing systems as a business tool.  Going back and disabling the Mercury Engine, then re-rendering as "software only" is a waste of my time.

     

    Come On, Adobe & Nvidia, get this fixed!

     

    Well...i'd guess that CS5 hold it's own against a system like yours for flexibility...though if the way that card works is in your workflow "sweet spot" then I guess you're probably best served to stay with it.

     

    If you have a system that has the juice to even run CS5, i can't imagine that running a CUDA-augmented system for Mercury is even remotely necessary for editing DV...  as far as using our systems as a business tool...I'm not sure what you're implying.  Most of us who are in the production business -in general- have moved to some form of HD some time ago, most of my peers made the move during CS2...

     

    Are you implying the rest of us aren't professionals, even as you are lobbying for aggressive support of a consumer-oriented I/O configuration?  I hope not.

     

    It's not a bug BTW...it's a configuration that a few people don't like...but when your effects render is out on the display card, that's the way the pipe is routed.  Even HDSDI card manufacturers are finding that pulling those frames back off the display card negates some of the speed gains.

     

    If you have a system that is qualified for it, I think you should download the demo and try it before you assess PPro CS5 any further.  You are making lots of sweeping statements about a piece of software released almost 4 years ago running on a hardware system that was discontinued 4 years ago being better than the newest software running on up-to-date hardware without understanding what its performance is really like...even without a CUDA card.

     

    I can shut off CUDA and rip through DVCProHD like there's no tomorrow on my 3 year old dual dual core AMD...I have to believe you'll be able to -shred- DV on even an average-ish machine by today's standards.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 8, 2010 11:26 AM   in reply to Tim Kolb

    Let me back up and explain my work flow, and ask a question in case I've misunderstood.

     

    I usually shoot in HD or HDV.  My older Velocity-Q system is SD only, so that's all it will ingest and output.  When I shoot in HD or HDV I edit on Premiere, and use the appropriate HD or HDV project preset.  Once the project is completed I still need to output for Broadcast.  Since all the Broadcasters I work with are still limited to SD, I export an HD .avi from my original project, then import the HD .avi into a new SD Project (using the DV preset).  It is from the SD timeline that I output to DV via Firewire.  Most smaller market Broadcasters still use SD for commercials.  Many are now asking for a Quicktime SD file that can be uploaded to their ftp site.

     

    So here's a question: will CS5 output to DV via Firewire from an SD timeline....without disabling the Mercury Engine?  Does the Mercury Engine work on an SD timeline?   Since I don't have CS5 on hand to try, I'm unable to answer this question on my own.

     

    Thanks for reading, and clarifying if I've misunderstood the initilal post,and the apparent limitation.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 8, 2010 12:01 PM   in reply to J Graves

    So there's some semantics that have been a problem since 'Mercury'

    was first 'uber-leaked' everywhere...It's independent of the CUDA card.

     

    Having a CUDA card is  certainly helpful for lots of effects on big rasters (HD stuff) and you may find that very helpful as you edit in HD.  However, another part of Mercury that is available, CUDA card or not, is the ability to drop resolution to a lower pixel count for faster response during editing.  Even at its lowest resolution settings, it doesn't fall much below standard def.  I'm not even certain you can drop res on a DV timeline...I've not tried it.

     

    The bottom line here is you have one switch to flip in the sequence settings and you're in software Mercury and the FW is live.  If you prefer, you could use Media Encoder to output the DV file along with the MPEG files and whatever else the stations want delivered from your HDV timeline all at once, and place the DV file on the DV  timeline and send it out to tape...no rendering necessary.

     

    I think you may be grossly over estimating the amount of inconvenience involved here.  In your workflow description, i just can't see where having the CUDA card live for just that dump to tape will give you any remarkable benefit for DV material, the computer just wouldn't be under stress.  For demos, I'm switching it on and off all the time...it's quick.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 8, 2010 1:47 PM   in reply to Tim Kolb

    Fair enough, Tim.  If, as you wrote, it's "just one switch", then this shouldn't slow down the workflow. FWIW, I usually produce both HD and SD versions of my commercials.  Even though the Broadcasters and Cable Companies need SD, the Clients love having an HD version....and that version looks a lot better on the web than a downsampled SD version (letterboxed) will.   I suspect that I'm not alone with a need for various types of output.  But I digress, The bottom line is this: download the trial and give it a rip.

    Good Editing....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 8, 2010 2:05 PM   in reply to J Graves

    ...with one last caveat.

     

    No MPEG based file types are supported in the trial...MPEG codec licensing, etc.  But DV is certainly supported.

     

    I keep forgetting about the MPEG thing...which knocks out a ton of formats unfortunately.

     

    But you'll be able to see how DV works.

     

    And DVCProHD is in there if you want to play with an HD workflow.

     

    (sigh)

     

    It's just how it is unfortunately.

     
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    Aug 9, 2010 1:09 PM   in reply to Tim Kolb

    > No MPEG based file types are supported in the trial.

     

     

    Not exactly. Here's the precise answer about what's not in the trial:

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2997829#2997829

     
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    Aug 9, 2010 2:08 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd_Kopriva wrote:

     

    > No MPEG based file types are supported in the trial.

     

     

    Not exactly. Here's the precise answer about what's not in the trial:

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2997829#2997829

     

    Well...OK.

     

    I suspect that for most people who want to download the trial to actually explore the format support, the essence of what I said is true...

     

    While I understand the reason they're not in there, I don't think I'm interested in splitting that particular hair with users who can't load their camera footage as that's a pretty thin caveat that would likely be considered a bit insulting to even bring up..

     

    But thanks for the clarification.

     

    :-)

     

    Tim

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 11, 2010 9:44 PM   in reply to Tim Kolb

    Firewire, iLink, IEEE 1394 export problem, Windows 7.


    Disabling MPE (and make software only) does not work for me. I have tried onboard and add on firewire cards with no luck. I tried VIA and TI chipset cards. I tried default and legacy drivers. nothing works. Not just MPE, the CS5 timeline without MPE won't even play on the firewire device.

    Asus P6T Deluxe mobo (built in VIA chipset firewire 400)

    12 GB 1600 ram

    Nvidia GTX285 graphics

    Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

    Sony Z1U camera, firewire dv in using as a deck

    Canon Optura Pi camera - firewire in

    Panasonic AJ-D250 deck - firewire in

    PPro CS5 5.0.1

    --- Cannot export the timeline. Does not play out on the firewire. Only scrubbing shows on the external unit, play does not. Export will get a still of the CTI still frame recorded on the tape. Capture works fine.

     

    So for now I have to export my SD timeline as a DV file and open PPro CS3 and export the file to tape. Every week two half hour TV shows will have to be exported to tape this way. Everything else is wonderful with CS5 PPro but this is frustrating. MPE on or off, does not make any difference. May be it's my combination of hardware. Anybody with this hardware?

     

    Thanks

    -BC

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 12, 2010 4:47 AM   in reply to AsianOcean.com

    If this doesn't work for you, you should start your own thread (as your issue is separate from the main gist of this particular thread), but do you have the Export to Tape option activated properly?

     

    export-settings.png

    Either click the Output button on the Program Monitor (the RGB circles icon) or go to Sequence > Sequence Settings > Playback Settings and verify that External Device is not set to None. For whatever reason, Adobe has split the preview output and the export-to-tape output into two different settings, and this is a pretty common "gotcha." You can crash record without this setting specified (as long as the External Device under Realtime Playback is set to your DV device), but you can't use the Export to Tape procedure without this setting.

     

    Again, if this doesn't correct the issue, start a new thread to focus on the particular issue you're having.

     

    AFTERTHOUGHT: Also, check your device control settings in Edit > Preference > Device Control:

     

    device-control.png

     

    You don't necessarily want the settings shown here, but you can verify that your device is being recognized and is controllable. You have to do a sort of Vulcan neck pinch on Premiere in order to get it to export to tape sometimes.

     
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    Aug 12, 2010 10:03 AM   in reply to Colin Brougham

    Thank you CB for the reminders but I have tried everything that's there to be tried. I have the playback settings set correctly (and resetting going back and forth too) and the check status always shows ONLINE also. The units rewind, record and everything but the picture will be a still of the CTI, no live video. I actually almost started a new thread but decided to post here, I guess I will start a new one. I decided to post here because I saw the original essence of the thread was dwindling lately Thanks.

    -BC

     
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    Aug 12, 2010 10:58 AM   in reply to AsianOcean.com

    Hi BC, by chance are you trying to output via firewire from a Standard Definition timeline or from a High Definition timeline?  In CS3, I can only "print to tape" from an SD timeline.

     

    ....just once more thing to check.

     
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    Aug 12, 2010 12:06 PM   in reply to AsianOcean.com

    Um...the timecode is compatible right?

     

    If you're in NTSC land, I've seen drop-frame/non-drop frame incompatibilities be pretty strange...

     
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    Aug 12, 2010 3:02 PM   in reply to Tim Kolb

    Hello Graves

    I am going from SD timeline to SD DV/DVCAM format recording. From CS3 I can output to HDV from an HDV timeline (1440x1080) as well, ony HD is what firewire doesn't do.

    Hello Tim

    Time code is DF on the timeline and DF on the recorder, both 30fps.

    Thanks.

    -Bala Chandran.

     
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    Aug 12, 2010 3:12 PM   in reply to AsianOcean.com

    Not to hijack the original subject of this thread, I am posting this anew elsewhere.

    -BC

     
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    Aug 12, 2010 6:10 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Well..... I just installed the full upgrade to CS5 Production Premium and can verify that the DV output does not appear to be working.  I will post on the new thread since this reallyl doesn't have anything to do with the MPE.  Yes, I followed all the steps outlined above.

     
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    Aug 13, 2010 9:41 AM   in reply to AsianOcean.com

    Just to add some information I am having the output via Firewire problem with SD, I don't use HD yet.

    John Eaton

    PS Correction of typo

     
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    Aug 13, 2010 9:43 AM   in reply to J Graves

    I'm still finding my way around forums.  Please can J Greaves point me to his new forum?

     
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    Aug 13, 2010 10:10 AM   in reply to johngrahameaton
     
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  • Admiral Cook
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    Jul 3, 2009
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    Mar 9, 2011 3:27 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Any news on this?

     

    For me it's practically useless feature, as I'm using HDV/DV recorder for output, so MPE GPU is always disabled.

     
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    Apr 7, 2011 11:30 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    This ever get resolved?

     
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    May 7, 2011 10:48 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Hi,

    I am trying to ouput my timeline to my HVR M15N.  PPro CS5 shows it controls the VCR but I have black video and no sound recorded on the tape.

    I heard about MPE but I don't kwnow anything about it. What is it? How and where can I disable it or turn it to software only? I work with an RTX 2 but I think it dosen't matter in this case, right?

    Sorry about my english, i'm from Brazil. Please, help.

    Thanks

     
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