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philosopherdog
Currently Being Moderated

Photoshop CS5 ignores OS X Spaces

Aug 27, 2010 5:45 PM

CS5 doesn't obey spaces on my machine. I have a MBP i7 with SL. Please confirm if it does on yours by following this simple test. Open photoshop in space 2 and Quicktime (or something else) in space 1. Make sure the "when switching to an application" box is checked in the spaces settings. Now use command tab to switch back to PS from space 1 with QT open. What does it do? Does it switch you to space 2 where PS was opened, or does it just open PS in space 1 with QT in the middle? On my machine it doesn't switch to space 2 with PS, but remains in space 1 and PS appears to have moved to space 1! That looks like a pretty serious bug to me. Actually, if you think about it that means that PS is completely ignoring spaces altogether. I can, of course, switch to space 2 using a shortcut key. When I do this PS is no longer in space 2 because it now seems to be in space 1, sort of. No matter what space I'm in, if I command tab to PS it will pop up in that space instead of moving to space 2 where PS was supposed to be. So, PS is not compatible with spaces on my machine. If it were it would stay in the space I put it in and not appear in any space if I command tab to it. This behaviour is across the whole of CS5 from what I can tell. Is this behaviour just on my machine or is this a program bug? Also, if I go to the spaces view I never see PS there, just the PS images I have open. So it seems PS ignores spaces, but the content window doesn't. Thanx.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2010 1:23 PM   in reply to philosopherdog

    Spaces is an OS level feature that Application don't write to, and don't really know about.

    Photoshop is SUPPOSED to ignore Spaces - because Spaces is supposed to do it's work without changes to the application.

     

    Previously, Apple blamed Spaces problems on Photoshop using Carbon APIs.

    But now Photoshop CS5 uses all Cocoa APIs.

    And Spaces still doesn't work.

     

    Yes, you are seeing some serious bugs in Spaces.

    And if you want them fixed, you need to talk to Apple.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 2, 2010 11:58 AM   in reply to philosopherdog

    You can run Photoshop CS5 on 10.5.x and 10.6.x and Spaces behave completely different in some cases between the two OSes. We've documented these issues and we are working with Apple on them. Have you also reported the problems you are seeing to Apple?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2010 12:18 AM   in reply to philosopherdog

    We would like to see Spaces work as well - but there's nothing we can do in Photoshop to fix bugs in Spaces.

    Only Apple can fix the bugs in their code.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2010 7:50 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    All we hear is Adobe critizing Apple except when they have a go at Flash.

     

    The worst thing I've done in a long time is upgrade from CS3 to CS5. I thought CS3 was buggy but this is just a joke. It makes my Mac feel like a PC and that's some achievement.

     

    You wouldn't support CS3 on Snow Leopard but ironically it worked better than CS5 and now your support is consisting of "It's Apple's fault" That was worth 1300 bucks to upgrade for!

     

    PS CS5. Errors saving JPEG's that needs the prefs throwing away to correct. Major errors like "Sorry, something major happened and I can't continue" when I open the Image processor or a script.

     

    I'll give you this, you guys have a better sense of humour than I do when my 3-4 grands worth of software does not work and gives an error I can't find anywhere on your support site.

     

    The next click tells me this "- Server interface error 'Error setting Window::backgroundColor: ActionScript error: Error: Cannot convert' : 327". At other times it's createwidget errors. I bet that's Apple's fault too :-)

     

    Spaces we all know about. In PS CS5 if I open an image from the finder, it goes to space 1 regardless of PS allocated space. Photoshop is the only app that will allow documents to spread across all spaces and i use 12 of them.

     

    Cinema 4D, Motion, Final Cut, Aperture, Logic Pro, Photo to Movie, Transmit, Firefox. All work fine.

     

    PS CS5 is the only app that will not switch to the allocated space when opening a doc from the finder. The only way round it is to open everything in Tabs. I don't want to do that.

     

    Now if I go the space prefs and change PS space allocation then change it back all open docs go to the correct space. Can't you automate that somehow. A keyboard shortcut to put it all docs back to their proper place would be better than what you have now.

     

    Yet apparently that is Apple's fault. What are you doing differently with your doc windows? You're doing something non standard for sure.

     

    Clearly you're doing something differently, which is the norm for Adobe and has never been a popular approach but you stick with it. Non standard dialogues, non standard menus.

     

    We didn't choose Mac so you could redesign our user experience.

     

    Would it be possible to please tell us why it is that out of old versions of Final Cut. Aperture, hundreds of third party apps work with Spaces fine?

     

    Want to hear a joke. Even Windows apps play nice in Parallels Coherance mode. But not a native app like PS. Weird. The day you guys bought Macromedia and killed Quark was the beginning of the end.

     

    Domination and a monopoly abused to the nth degree. Adobe's way or the highway. Thanks for that.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2010 8:25 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    Yet apparently that is Apple's fault

    Yes. Spaces is an Apple application.

    Applications don't know that Spaces is running - Spaces does all the "spaces" assignments and multiscreen emulation.

     

    Yes, we know more about how Spaces works (or is supposed to work), and how Photoshop works.

    We have talked this over with Apple, and we know how many bugs in Spaces we are waiting for Apple to fix.

     

    I'm sorry you can't get Spaces to work as you'd like -- but making Spaces work is 100% Apple's responsibility.  There's not a thing we can do to fix the bugs in Spaces.

     

    Non standard dialogues, non standard menus.

    Unless you are referring to a Flash dialog or panel, that is incorrect.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2010 8:57 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Thank you for addressing my Image processor issues. Not! 1300 buck upgrade and the best you have for support?

     

    Any chance you'd look at those issues or do I contact Apple for that too.

     

    What about that my CS3 licensing has stopped working since CS3 was installed? I can't even use it for the things CS5 can't do now. Why did you disable a piece of software I bought for a not inconsiderable amount of money?

     

    Now if I'd put it on another machine I'd see the logic, but it's on the SAME machine. Shared licence maybe. Again, your way or the high way. Kill the competition then get lazy.

     

    If other apps work fine with spaces and yours don't, then it's your issue. If you were following Apple guidelines then they would work.

     

    Adobe has had non standard menus since way back. How could you and Macromedia have interface lawsuits if you were using Apple's? Makes no sense.

     

    They just didn't present a problem till spaces. What was CS3's save option? Use OS or Adobe's save dialogues?

     

    I'm on a Mac, I'll use Apple's thank you very much. Why you even do your own dialogues smacks of domination tendencies.

     

    It's not like your argument holds any water. If there were other vendors having the same issues I would buy your explanation.

     

    If you use Apple windows and guidelines, your products would work. How is it all Apple apps work fine in the same 'broken' spaces system?

     

    Maybe it's just retaliatory for Apple having the nuts to say what every developer has known for a long time. Flash is a buggy piece of crap.

     

    I was a web developer for 15 years and developed Flash apps. Nothing can crash a machine like Flash and it got worse after you guys got hold of it. Bloated plug in with designs on world domination. And Apple know it and are the only ones with the balls to call you on it.

     

    Funny, feels like Type 1 and Truetype all over again.

     

    I've used PS since version 1.0 back in college. I've loved it but it's gotten worse. I went from CS3 to Cs5.

     

    How many headline additions for the 2 major upgrades I just took? Content aware is nice. Mmmm! That's it actually. Even 64 bit os no use till the plug in vendors get updates out. Got to run in 32bit.

     

    Here's a suggestion. Make PS aware of an images orientation. Not hard for the worlds leading image editor is it.

     

    Apple Aperture knows which way round an image is and can export to within a pixel dimensions, regardless of orientation.

     

    In 2010 I have to divide 200 images manually in to landscape and portrait to do a resize along the longest edge. How far you've come.

     

    Quite simply, you're just not trying anymore.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2010 10:30 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    What about that my CS3 licensing has stopped working since CS3 was installed? I can't even use it for the things CS5 can't do now. Why did you disable a piece of software I bought for a not inconsiderable amount of money?

    Nothing was disabled.  CS3 works for other people.

    There was a MacOS bug that caused problems with CS3 licensing on 10.6, but Apple fixed that a few patches back.

     

    Adobe has had non standard menus since way back.

    No, we use purely platform native menus (except for the little bit of Flash content in Photoshop).

    So, I'm not sure where you got the idea that Adobe's menus were non-standard.

     

    If other apps work fine with spaces and yours don't, then it's your issue. If you were following Apple guidelines then they would work.

    Sorry, but that is faulty logic.  We are following Apple's guidelines (even if some Apple apps ignore those same guidelines).

    Apple said that the Spaces problems were due to Carbon, then we moved to Cocoa and Spaces had most of the same problems.

    Spaces is supposed to do it's work without the application (Photoshop in this case) knowing anything about Spaces.

    To the best of my knowledge, Spaces doesn't even expose an API to applications, so applications can't do anything about how Spaces works.

     

     

    Why you even do your own dialogues smacks of domination tendencies.

    Apple's save dialog couldn't be extended to do what VersionCue wanted to do.  So they implemented a new dialog that was 90% Apple, and 10% added code.  But we got rid of that dialog a while ago.

     

     

     

    It's not like your argument holds any water.

    I'm sorry you have trouble accepting the honest truth.

     

     

    If there were other vendors having the same issues I would buy your explanation.

    There are.  One of them has a number of professional apps that don't quite work with Spaces, I think their name is "Apple".

     

     

    Apple Aperture knows which way round an image is and can export to within a pixel dimensions, regardless of orientation.

    In 2010 I have to divide 200 images manually in to landscape and portrait to do a resize along the longest edge. How far you've come.

    Oh, so you missed the Resize Image wizard and Fit Image automation plugin that have been shipping with Photoshop for, what is it, 10 years now?

     

     

     

    I'm sorry that you have problems.

    But Adobe is not going to be able to solve your problems.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 4, 2010 11:21 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    You're pretty sarcastic for someone dealing with a person who knows your products better than you ever will. I use them 8 hours a day and have for 22 years.

     

    "I'm sorry that you have problems.

    But Adobe is not going to be able to solve your problems."

     

    Did I hear that correctly? Adobe is not going to be able to solve my problems with Adobe products? Can I put that on the bulletin boards and FB?.

     

    "Oh, so you missed the Resize Image wizard and Fit Image automation plugin that have been shipping with Photoshop for, what is it, 10 years now?"

     

    Tell me where it is. No-one seems to know. Maybe only in Elements?

     

    It's not in the help docs. These guys might want you to tell them to. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=600367

     

    Bear in mind, if this function you talk of needs the Image processor, I'll refer you back to my previous messages. Mine does not work. Any help on making it work would be nice! Isn't that your job?

     

    You chose to ignore my error messages and offered no support. Anything PS does that relies on the Image processor does not work and it simply kicks out humorous messages. You defend your stance on Apple but offer no support for any of my REAL issues. Your Image processor does not work on my fresh install of Cs5. It offers up humorous error messages.

     

    I described this earlier to you. You ignored it. Check my previous messages if you need to. Do you even know what those errors are?

     

    "Fit Image automation plugin"

     

    Ok Mr sarcasm.

     

    Fit image is no use if I want to crop multiple images is it? I drag the crop and i have to change it to match the orientation of my image. So I crop multiple images in aperture as it can do that in it's sleep.

     

    So when I go to crop and image it knows its orientation does it? No it doesn't. The crop tool crops to whatever is set and ignores the files orientation. So you have to keep changing 8x12 to 12x8 and back again, depending on the file. More than an annoyance on 100's of images.

     

    "Sorry, but that is faulty logic.  We are following Apple's guidelines (even if some Apple apps ignore those same guidelines).

    Apple said that the Spaces problems were due to Carbon, then we moved to Cocoa and Spaces had most of the same problems."

     

    Everything else works on Spaces, except your products.  Please tell me how if you click ANY doc in the finder, it opens in it's native app, in the  right space. Except Photoshop. Did Apple single you guys out?

     

    PS does go the right space, IF you use tabs for documents. You're the only one that makes a product that does not work, yet you still blame Apple.

     

    There are glitches here and there in Spaces but none of them are cause for more than a second of thought. Your PS glitches are pissing me off every day. Enough to waste my time here I guess.

     

    "There are.  One of them has a number of professional apps that don't quite work with Spaces, I think their name is "Apple"."

     

    I use most Pro apps from Apple and they all work fine. Name one if you feel confident I'm incorrect. I likely know more of the issues with them than you ever will.

     

    The toolbox in Final Cut 6 does move around. For Final Cut, that's it. And it is 4 year old software after all, not 4 months old like Cs5.

     

    "Nothing was disabled.  CS3 works for other people. There was a MacOS bug that caused problems with CS3 licensing on 10.6, but Apple fixed that a few patches back."

     

    Well my CS3 licensing timed out after a week and half of Snow Leopard (with all updates applied) and the message told me to contact you. I did and guess what?

     

    You blamed Apple. Is that Adobe company policy now? No-one else does it. Do I contact Apple to get them to re authorise my CS3? What do I do Adobe support? Tell me, and I'l do it.

     

    Again, never happened with anyone elses software in 22 years of using Macs. Amazing how many bugs in your software are Apple's fault.

     

    "Apple's save dialog couldn't be extended to do what VersionCue wanted to do.  So they implemented a new dialog that was 90% Apple, and 10% added code.  But we got rid of that dialog a while ago."

     

    Don't even get me started on the abomination that was Version Cue. Crap idea from top to bottom and didn't you guys draw the same conclusion and dump it. I don't see it in Cs5, thank god.

     

    "No, we use purely platform native menus (except for the little bit of Flash content in Photoshop).

    So, I'm not sure where you got the idea that Adobe's menus were non-standard."

     

    A little bit of Flash content? For a moment, let's pretend that's true. So you don't use standard menus then :-)

     

    It's like being pregnant mate, You either are of you aren't. You can't be 'mostly' compliant, you are or you aren't. YOU aren't. Once you step outside of compliance AND have issues, you're on your own.

     

    Again, if you use standard menus, why did you take Macromedia to court over your "unique" interface? You're not dealing with a muppet here mate, I know your working, I know your history, and I know you have been bolting stuff on to CS framework the for a long time and it's showing woith every bloated release that pleases your shareholder and know one else.

     

    You don't seem to know much about your own employers history and practices which are criticised industry wide. Jeez, it took you 10 years to support OSX properly and even then it's a bit half arsed. 64 bit in 2010. Wow, you are market leaders :-)

     

    Why not just give up the ghost and abandon Mac altogether. You seem to have unofficially done that anyway.

     

    And so far, you've solved not one of my very real Cs5 problems or error messages.

     

    Awesome support. Awesome!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 4:38 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    "Nothing was disabled.  CS3 works for other people.

    There was a MacOS bug that caused problems with CS3 licensing on 10.6, but Apple fixed that a few patches back."

     

    Further to the CS3 licensing problem Chris.

     

    The problem exists on both Mac and Windows machines and Adobe has multi platform solutions http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/401/kb401528.html#main_sol1 (didn't work for me sadly)

     

    So Chris, I'm starting to think you're just a fanboy troll and I can't wait to hear your explanation of how a cross platform licensing issue on an Adobe product is Apple's fault. I simply can't wait :-)

     

    Everyone with a brain knows your licensing techniques, how you guys were trying to be clever with CS3, and how easily they get broken on a legal copy.

     

    Doesn't seem to stop your software been on Torrent though, just gets in the way of legal buyers wanting to use what they paid for.

     

    There was an earthquake over the weekend in NZ. Do you think that's Apple fault too.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 6:36 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    Please read the knowledgebase article again.

    That article tells you how to reset your activation if you have problems (corrupted disk, corrupted files, etc.).

    There is no cross platform issue, no known bug, etc.  You just made that up.

     

    You have problems. OK, we accept that.

    But your problems are not solveable by Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 7:02 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    "You have problems. OK, we accept that.

    But your problems are not solveable by Adobe."

     

    That is going out everywhere on the net, I can tell you that. Problems with Adobe software not solveable by Adobe. That's a classic, even for you guys.

     

    For a hotline you're not very hot.

     

    Not one issue you've solved for me. Google has turned up some solutions luckily. Not for Spaces though. PS remains the only app on the market that can't switch to the PS space when you double click a doc in the finder.

     

    "There is no cross platform issue, no known bug, etc.  You just made that up."

     

    I made that up?

     

    Read your own tech docs and learn something . Why is it that your licence recovery utility is for Mac AND Windows if there is no problem on Windows?

     

    http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/401/kb401528.html

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/417018

     

    You're an idiot, through and through. How the hell did you get a job in IT?

     

    Oh, I know, it's Adobe. The only half assed software company you could get a job at. As you'll see below, your employer offers utilities and support for CS3 and CS4 activation issues on WINDOWS.

     

    Funny they do that if there's no cross platform issue don't you think? Seems a waste of time for the Adobe tech's to have a solution for a problem that does not exist. :-)

     

    Tired of dealing with you. You're completely and utterly useless, as is your software. And don't get me started on the slow bug fest that is Indesign. Come back Quark, all is forgiven.

     

    Issue

    When you start any Adobe Creative Suite 3 application, you see the error message, "Licensing for this product has stopped working. You cannot use this product at this time. You must repair the problem by uninstalling and then reinstalling this product or contacting your IT administrator or Adobe customer support for help."

    Important: For Adobe Creative Suite 4 (CS4) products and Acrobat 9, please use kb405970 (Windows) or kb51260 (Mac OS).

    Solutions

    Solution 1: Apply the Licensing Service Update
    Solution 2: Set the FLEXnet Licensing Service to Manual and Start the service. (Windows only)
    Solution 3: Reset your permissions on the FLEXnet folder
    Solution 4: Rename the FLEXnet folder

     

    Solution 2: Set the FLEXnet Licensing Service to Manual and start the service. (Windows only)

    1. Choose Start > Control Panel.
    2. Double-click Administrative Tools.
    3. Double-click Services.
    4. Double-click the FLEXnet Licensing Service to open the Properties dialog box.
    5. Click the Startup Type menu, and then select Manual.
    6. Click Apply.
    7. In the Services Status section, click Start to start the service.
    8. Click Apply, and then click OK.
    9. Close all open dialogs.
    10. Start the affected application.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 8:23 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    >That is going out everywhere on the net, I can tell you that.

     

    Like anyone cares. You're obviously just looking for an argument. Why Chris has wasted any time on you at all is beyond me.

     

    Better get busy because if you want to get that out everywhere on the net you're wasting valuable time here. The net's a mighty big place and you have work to do. Now get busy spreading the word... they are waiting for your words of wisdom.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 8:37 PM   in reply to AZDawg

    Not looking for an argument, just solutions to issues that software costing this much should not have.

     

    Adobe support forums is clearly the wrong place to look for Adobe support. You only have to browse round here to see unsolved issues all across the forums.

     

    If you read carefully you'd see Chris was incorrect on so many points it was laughable, does not know his own companies products and answered not one single question, solved one CS5 error message or provided a single solution, a tech doc link or anything that might provide help.

     

    He even blamed Apple for a CS3 and CS4 issue that affects Mac AND Windows. With quality staff like that, no wonder the software is buggy as hell.

     

    Like anyone cares that 3-4 grands worth of software has issues Adobe can't help with? Clearly you don't.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 8:48 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    >Adobe support forums is clearly the wrong place to look for Adobe support.

     

    This is a user to user forum. Chris is an employee donating his time. All you've done is bash him and ridicule him because he didn't give you the answer you wanted. You ARE looking for an argument. He told you (and trust me he knows more about Ps than you'll ever know) it's an issue with Spaces and you just won't accept that. You're not going to find a better answer here so to continue to call people names is not going to get you anything. You've been nothing but aggressive since your first post.

     

    You made your point, now go inform the entire Net of your findings like you threatened to do. You've got a long night ahead of you.

     

    Oh, and you're correct on one point, I don't care.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 9:04 PM   in reply to AZDawg

    You'd get pissed off if you spent a fortune on upgrades that your livelihood depends on and get zero support for 4 or 5 very real error messages.

     

    (and trust me he knows more about Ps than you'll ever know)

     

    I've used PS since 1.0 in 1990 through each version only skipping CS4 so I severely doubt that. I have spent 3-4 days a week of my life in PS since then and have published articles on it's use from retouching to compositing.

     

    Apple and Adobe have been playing this blame game since before you were born. Postscript and Truetype started it off, and Flash and iPads are the latest instalment. The user suffers every time.

     

    Forget Spaces for now. Where was Chris's claimed expertise useful exactly?

     

    Image processor error messages? No answer from Chris. Adobe can't help on that one.

     

    Cross platform licensing failure issues that affect Mac, XP, Vista and 7? Highly incorrect information from Chris that is contradicted by Adobe tech docs. Adobe can't help on that one either.

     

    Not much of an employee. Not one suggestion of a solution to many CS5 error messages that have nothing to do with Apple or Spaces.

     

    That ok with you? Clearly your expectations are pretty low for a company with a revenue approaching 3 billion dollars now that they've killed off Aldus, Macromedia and just about every other competitor aside from Corel, Microsoft, Sun and Apple.

     

    I solved all but one issue on Google. As far as I know, Google is not part of Adobe support, yet clearly beats this place for expertise.

     

    "Chris is an employee donating his time." That's a contradiction in terms.

     

    I did not expect to have to post multiple posts to get no information on solutions that were eventually obtained elsewhere. Have not used Adobe support since 2003, it's not changed. Well it has. It's worse. At least back then you got a solution, eventually.

     
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    Sep 5, 2010 9:48 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    I've been reading here a long time and this is absolutely the best post ever. I've contributed to some winners, but to have Chris in the mix here makes for an instant classic. I'm not threatening to spread this post around on Facebook, but it's definitely on my hard drive for those dark times when the proverbial barrel's in my mouth. Thank you, jakey.

     

    one.jpg

     

    two.jpg

     

    three.jpg

     

    four.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 10:04 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    Calm down, jakeymate.

    Not much of an employee.

    Just FYI, Chris Cox wrote about half of Photoshop (although not the licensing part I think).

     

    And this is not a hotline to Adobe. It's a user to user forum, and the fact that Adobe employees show up here at all is something for which we are truly grateful.

     

    Edit: hats off to J Maloney. As usual he expressed it way better than me

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 5, 2010 10:11 PM   in reply to Gyno-jiz

    Happy to amuse J :-)

     

    Thanks for those images. Truly. That is the most useful thing so far, but sadly does not solve the issue with my image processor not functioning and hence me not been able to use those admittedly useful features :-)

     

    As I've mentioned previously and received no reply. With anything to do with the image processor or scripts the thing is, I get this error when trying to access the features you kindly mention.

     

    "Sorry, something major happened and I can't continue. Would you like more information?"

     

    The reply was that Adobe could not help. A frustrating answer to be sure. Found more info on Google but that's not the point is it?

    If I could access the fit to image features and scripts the image processor provides, that would be nice, but even then, they don't solve the issue of doing a visual manual crop on a group of images do they?

     

    Aperture has this nice thing where when you drag the crop, it knows the orientation of the image you are cropping.

     
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    Sep 5, 2010 10:24 PM   in reply to D Fosse-QDEaQ1

    Hey D.

     

    Chris wrote half of Photoshop but couldn't point me to a solution for why the image processor throws a humorously worded error when I try to open anything connected with it?

     

    Interesting :-) Did he word the error too? Very funny. Almost like PS has a personality :-)

     

    I'm perfectly calm and having solved the issues through Google and moved past the two days of productivity I just lost due to constant errors, life is getting back to normal again. The backlog is getting done and all is well in the world.

     

    Thank you Google. You're the best Adobe support there is.

     

    My issue with Chris is that i asked questions, got incorrect answers or none at all. Pretty frustrating.

     

    And, it clearly showed through my posts at 3am while the image processor threw errors, work backed up and the guy who wrote 'half' of it, said

     

    "You have problems. OK, we accept that. But your problems are not solveable by Adobe."

     

    Image processor errors in an Adobe product not solvable by Adobe. That will tickle me for years to come. It surely will :-)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2010 12:53 AM   in reply to jakeymate1

    Guys, I'm through with this one.   He's constantly trying to change the topic, constantly misrepresenting what was said or what knowlegebase articles say, and simply looking for trouble.  Don't rise to his bait.

     

    Really, his troubles aren't solvable by Adobe, or anyone else here.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2010 1:16 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    One last time Chris so it's simple enough for you to see what you missed in every single reply.

     

    Activation issues are cross platform, not Mac specific. You offered zero assistance to my problem.

     

    Image processor threw up errors and you did not help in any way, shape or form. You offered zero assistance to my problem.

     

    What part of your totally ignoring my technical issues concerning the functioning of my rather expensive CS5 and CS3 is bait?

     

    The only thing I learned from you in all your posts is that you don't like Apple.

     

    Hope you're proud of your "support".

     

    Ce la vie and thank the lord for Google. They solved everything but Spaces.

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 2:26 AM   in reply to jakeymate1

    More Spaces info since I got my CS3 working again, thanks to Google.

     

    Comparison Spaces behaviours for CS5 and Cs3 are not consistent with Adobe claims.

     

    Have CS5 PS open in Space 9, with no docs open. Double click image in Finder (space 1) and the image loads into CS5 in Space 1. Incorrect.

     

    Have CS3 PS open in Space 9, with no docs open. Double click image in Finder (space 1) and the image loads into CS3 in Space 9. Correct.

     

    CS3 works generally well with Spaces on 10.6.4 with the odd forgivable glitch. Life isn't perfect and we are not expecting it to be, but PS CS3 is very useable in a Spaces workflow.

     

    Docs stay in allocated space with the odd dialogue box getting lost if you switch as the dialogue is generated or are in another space when it's generated.

     

     

    CS5 will accurately switch upon been opened for the first time, by a doc from the finder. Subsequent docs opened from Finder will not switch to correct space unless any open docs are nested in Tabs. Once the last tab has been closed however, the next doc will open in Space 1 (or whichever Space you double click the image in.

     

    CS5 doesn't switch Spaces at all when opening docs from the finder except when there are existing docs open in tabs. Then it will switch. Tabs are problematic in some PS workflows for a number of reasons, some below.

     

    Tabs are not useful for workflow as you can't copy adjustment layers or layers with masks or effect applied to them. Therefore the alternative it to have your docs in separate windows and drag the image layers or adjustment layers.

     

    If there is another way to move around modified layers and adjustment layers, this would be gratefully received. Dragging adjustment layers across docs that are in different Spaces is akin to torture and not recommended.

     

    The only way to get all 'lost' open CS5 PS docs back into the allocated Space is to select the Spaces prefs. Move PS to Space 8, then back to Space 9.

     

    That will force all docs and PS back to Space 9. Everything stays there until you open a new doc in the finder and it al starts again.

     

    After all this, a stopgap solution would be some form of shortcut to do that forcing.

     

    I, and many others I believe do not mind hitting an F key regularly to force open Docs back into the correct space. We got used to hitting tabs all the time to get the menu to reappear in Cs3 so we are used to it.

     

    Whatever gets the job done and gets us back to a workflow where 20 images are not hanging around in different places.

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 4:17 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    A small workaround for Spaces CS5 Mac.

     

    If you have CS5 documents spread over different Spaces due to clicking them in the finder and want to get them all back in to the allocated PS Space, here's a workaround.

     

    You do need one doc open in the correct space I'm afraid for it to work. Create s new doc in there if you have to. I tend to leave one small doc open in the right Space al the time now.

     

    Go to the allocated PS space. Select the menu option "Consolidate all to tabs" from the  Window>Arrange menu.

     

    This will bring all the open docs from their spaces to the correct space as tabs.

     

    That might be enough for you but you can't drag adjustments layers and layers with alphas etc to another doc in Tab view, something I do all the time when I'm retouching 20-30 shots and I'm trying to match them.

     

    Hard to do that with tab view obviously.

     

    Next select "Float all in windows" and you'll have your docs viewable, side by side in the right space.

     

    If you assign a key command to those options, it becomes a quick tap 1-2 and you're done.

     

    As far as I can tell, if you want floating windows, and all your docs in the right place, and don't want to open your images from the PS open dialogue (who does when you have 6 windows of 50 images on your dual 30" monitor setup?) then this will do it.

     

    It's not great for all things but it's better than "It's all Apple's fault"

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 6:49 AM   in reply to jakeymate1

    Jakey -  being rude to Chris isn't going to help anyone. He is one of the few Adobe staff who take their time to come here and share their knowledge and give direct feedback. Thats highly valuable, and an opportunity that should not be taken lightly.

     

    The Spaces issue has been gone through many times on this forum. It's really not anything to do with Adobe. I've now seen it myself, no applications work properly with Spaces including Apple Aperture. Spaces is a bit of a mess. I too would like to use it but can't - its too problematic. With both 10.5 and 10.6 it seems to have different issues, so they have recoded it wrongly twice for some reason. Switch it off or live with your workaround.

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 7:33 AM   in reply to jakeymate1

    jakeymate1 wrote:

     

     

    [various rants]

     

    As a courtesy to your fellow forum users, you may want to show a modicum of manners when you post here, sir.

     

    You should be aware that, contrary to your assertions, you do not know nearly or remotely as much about Photoshop as Mr. Chris Cox does.  As one of Adobe Photoshop's top engineers, he has been writing much of the code for the application for years.  You are wasting valuable learning opportunities here, and what's worse—and this is the only reason why I am addressing your ill-mannered rants—you are jeopardizing such learning opportunities for the rest of us.

     

    This is NOT a "hotline", but a user-to-user forum in which some Adobe staff volunteer their time and efforts when they can, on their own time and dime.  No one in this forum, absolutely no one has any obligation to respond to any post.  Posts like yours accomplish nothing.

     

    There are proper and intelligent ways to express legitimate grievances, and we all know such legitimate grievances exist.

     

     

    Thanks in advance.

     

     

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 7:49 AM   in reply to Reynolds (Mark)

    Mark and Tai, i agree, and i regret it, Having re-read it all, I see why, but that's no excuse.

     

    I was sat here with major issues and my questions were met with plenty of words and no solutions.

     

    Chris did not point me to a single solution for a miriad of Adobe issues I was having since upgrading.

     

    I got 2 days behind and had to work 22 hours over the weekend to solve problems i figured Adobe might just help with.

     

    Forget Spaces. Every other issue was an Adobe issue. I know this as I solved them, with Adobe tech docs, that are strangely more easily found through external forums and Google than Adobe's own site.

     

    Docs i know are on Adobe's site don't turn up in searches on Adobe's site. They are to be found on Google though and they are hosted on www.adobe.com and they solved certain issues.

     

    Maybe it's why Chris does not know of their existence and accuses me of making them up. Does he really think I created Adobe tech docs, and an Adobe utility to "bait" him?

     

    The utility for the licensing issue are  LicenseRecovery109.zip (Windows) or LicenseRecovery111.dmg file (Macintosh).

     

    Apparently the windows ones don't exist according to Chris, I made them up. But there they are along with the docs to explain them, on Adobe's site.

     

    Chris could have helped me find them. Instead he said and I quote "You just made that up".

     

    The single most bizarre thing I've heard in a long, long time.

     

    If you read I got very frustrated after the 3rd time I asked about Image processor errors and was ignored. He never did help with that.

     

    I went to Google and solved all issues but Spaces and Spaces I half solved on my own.

     

    I got very frustrated after receiving not one bit of assistance. And it showed, and that's my bad.

     

    Not right to get like that, but in all that messaging, not one answer at all from Chris. Not one tech doc to solve the image processor errors.

     

    As for turning off Spaces, it's not an option for me.

     

    I run 12 Spaces, dual 30" monitors, 8 tb of internal drives, Cinema 4D, Office (buggy with Spaces but not a total loss), Logic 9, Final Cut Studio 6, Aperture 2 and the CS5 Suite including Flash as well as email, iCal and Safari/Firefox, one for browsing, one for backend admin to keep passwords and cookies separate for analysis when developing web apps. And Parallels.

     

    Most of the time i can have all this open and the Mac runs sweetly, as long as i restart it once a week.

     

    I can't imagine working without Spaces. It would be a mess.

     

    Everything has it's place and it all works bar the odd glitch. I've never had any issue with Aperture Mark. It's locked in Space 8 and it stays there.

     

    Spaces is not perfect for sure, but it saves me hours per week.

     

    And i worked out in 22 years, creative director of two design agencies in England in the 90's and self employed for 12 years, I've given Adobe around 180,000 US dollars in one way or another through my various positions.

     

    I've used their tech support 5 times in 22 years. The last time was 2003 and this time I got desperate over the weekend as I couldn't get to the bottom of some pretty major errors.

     

    I had 6 days work to do before Thursday, when I have to have surgery and won't be able to work again for three weeks. Not a good week for image processor errors and failing licensing on my only backup plan, CS3.

     

    I will likely fashion a personal apology to Chris for my attitude when I get a moment, but that won't take away that coming on here for support was a colossal waste of time.

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 9:37 AM   in reply to jakeymate1

    jakeymate1 wrote:

     

    Mark and Tai, i agree, and i regret it…

     

    …I will likely fashion a personal apology to Chris for my attitude when I get a moment…

     

    Glad to hear that.

     

     

    jakeymate1 wrote:

     

    …but that won't take away that coming on here for support was a colossal waste of time…

     

    It sometimes is, if no one reading your posts knows the answer or if folks are so put off by the tenor of said posts that they are not inclined to reply.  That is the essential nature of these user-to-user forums.

     

    jakeymate1 wrote:

     

    …I got very frustrated after the 3rd time I asked about Image processor errors and was ignored. He never did help with that…

     

    That's a good example.  The author of the Image Processor is Russell Brown, not Chris Cox.  He doesn't participate in these forums much, if at all.  Additionally, there is the free Dr. Brown Services set of scripts, by the same author, Russell Brown.  It's like the Image Processor on steroids and the reason I haven't used the Image Processor for years and years.  That's why I had ignored your earlier references to the Image Processor, as I have nothing to contribute there.

     

    For the same reason, I had not bothered to address threads dealing primarily with Spaces, a piece of bloated, buggy Apple software I have never been interested in and one of the many reasons I chose not to upgrade to Leopard and/or Snow Leopard.  As it is, I found the introduction by Apple of the Dashboard and Spotblight in Tiger superfluous, useless and intrusive enough that I disabled both of them in my Tiger 10.4.11 installation.  As a matter of fact, if Photoshop 11.0.2 ("CS4") ran on Panther, I would have stuck to that OS.  Apple has been going down the wrong path for years.

     

    Adobe has been adding bloated features too, of course, and the only reason I upgraded to both CS3 and CS4 was the rapidly improving ACR.  Now, I'm sticking with CS4.  I have no desire or need to move to an Intel machine (I'd buy a Windows box instead, but that's another topic) or to Leopard/Snow Leopard.

     

    "Content aware" is sort of OK, but it's been available to me for a long time in Alien Skin's Image Doctor plug-in in a better incarnation, as well as in the GIMP (free).

     

    Keep in mind that Adobe has evolved into a gargantuan, clumsy and unresponsive bureaucracy, in which the right hand often does not know what the left one does.  The individual teams that develop the various applications in the Creative Suites are not only in different cities but in different states.  The teams responsible for the installers and updaters have nothing to do with the suite applications, and even program managers are embarrassed and frustrated with the performance of said installers and the havoc they sometimes wreak on the applications themselves.

     

    In such an environment, where engineers are often frustrated by the bean counters, there's an unfortunate tendency for an adversarial attitude to develop vis-à-vis the customers, and that affects us all.  But provoking an even more antagonistic atmosphere like your posts do, helps absolutely no one.

     

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 9:40 AM   in reply to jakeymate1

    DISCLAIMER:

     

    I have no connection to Adobe other than that of a former customer who bought Adobe products for a little over a quarter of a century.  The only current Adobe applications I use are the free DNG Converter, the necessary but hated Flash plug-in and, on occasion the free Adobe Reader.  My versions of Acrobat, Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign are legitimate, older versions which work to my complete satisfaction.

     

    The views expressed in my posts are entirely my own.

     

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 5:10 PM   in reply to Tai Lao

    Hi Tai. Thank you for your comments.

     

    A lot of frustration came from some of the points you mentioned too.

     

    I held off CS4 as there simply didn't seem to be any point. There were issues in CS3 but I lived with those.

     

    The first time I ran CS5 Indesign and PS and realised that 4 years and two upgrade jumps later, the same issues were still there and I could have strangled someone at Adobe.

     

    I have a love hate relationship with them. I'm the only person I know who used PS 1.0 on a floppy. It's been a long arduous time of great software, corporate buyouts, muscle flexing, bugs, more bugs, no competition and a worsening attitude to upgrades and more money making.

     

    The CS idea is good in principal, but every App gets upgraded at the same time. Not when they are ready.

     

    Adobe do casual bug fixes for a month or two (PS CS5 is only 12.01 after months on the market and forums full of issues) and then move to the next big release and the next big cash cow. CS3 PS never got past 10.01.

     

    10.01!!!! after 4 years? That's giving up on support once it's out of the door if you ask me. I'm no Microsoft fan but those guys support th eshit out of their software. Updates for 7 year old Apps. Now that is support.

     

    Check your hard drive. Do you have any other App that's been on there for more than a year with only a X.01 update?

     

    Adobe believe their product is flawless clearly. The web says different. The fact is, Adobe like any other company are there to make money.

     

    Difference is, they have no competition so no one to answer to. We use adobe or we quit our careers.

     

    While everyone was watching Microsoft and Apple, and the browser wars, Adobe killed Freehand, Pagemaker, Flash paper, Quark, Paintshop, put Corel into marginal status, and took over as the victors.

     

    Say what you like about Apple and Microsoft,they have competition to  keep them sharp. Not Adobe. As a user for their products for 22 years, I've sen the change. Designers worldwide cringed when the news came that they 'merged' with Macromedia. Sad days.

     

    Development of each app due to the CS suite has to wait on the others. So if PS is taking time, Flash, Indesign have to wait. Screw the users waiting for features or god forbid, bug fixes.

     

    I spent 1300 dollars on the Premium upgrade and guess what? It was worse in Spaces than CS3. There were 1-2 good new features and a handful of workflow improvements for my money.

     

    Even Adobe's PS page 'What's new' list is pretty sad reading. No real innovation, and as you say many things that were in third part plug ins anyway. Content aware is the one single headline feature. ONE.

     

    And 64 bit is useless till all my 3rd party plug ins are 64 bit unless I want to quit, set 32, restart, quit, set 64, restart all day.

     

    I'm no programmer but if PS 64 could pass the 3rd party processing to a 32 bit instance of the PS engine, then pass the resulting image back to PS 64, that would be great. We waited an eternity for 64 bit PS and now we will wait for the plugins we know  and love to catch up.

     

    I'm no fan of ACR due to it been propitery and support is stopped the minute a new Cs is released.

     

    For the last 5 years my business has moved into fashion photography and I'm not going to be forced into multi thousand dollar CS upgrades everytime I buy a new Camera.

     

    I'll likely have 2-3 new cams before I upgrade to CS7. I'm missing 6 for sure. If I use a ACR workflow, then my hands are tied.

     

    On the Mac, RAW is system supported so any App you use, no matter how old, can use RAW from the system (except Adobe).

     

    Apple are a bit slow with RAW updates but unless you buy a new camera on the day of release, you're ok. Major new cams are supported within a few weeks.

     

    You can even quick view a RAW file in the finder. The results from Apple RAW are superb. Nothing wrong with ACR too but it's too tied to Adobe and their upgrades.

     

    People go on about Spaces. I am the most demanding user of it that I know. 12 Spaces, dual 30" monitors and I find across 90% of things it's the best workflow feature in existence. Take Adobe CS out of the mix and it's fine across 99% things. The occasional glitch, as opposed to workflow inhibiting problems.

     

    At least with my 'solution' to CS5 my workflow is almost normal again :-)

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 10:12 PM   in reply to jakeymate1

    Just a minor point about raw: there is the DNG converter. You don't "have" to upgrade for a new camera. The only difference is that you'll be working on DNGs instead of the native raw format, which is of no practical consequence.

     
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    Sep 6, 2010 11:22 PM   in reply to D Fosse-QDEaQ1

    Hi D.

     

    DNG was something Adobe did right and deserved to be standardised in camera but alas, it never happened.

     

    The last time I tried use it in workflow, was back when I got my 5D mk2, which I got the day they shipped them.

     

    DNG didn't support the mosaic pattern in the CR2 file of the Mk2 or there was some issue making it awkward at the time.

     

    From memory it was updated to support that, then a few days later Apple supported it natively. Plus I shoot maybe 500-1500 21 meg shots in a shoot.

     

    To convert to DNG was simply not practical when a client was waiting to see the results.

     

    Nice idea but DNG has had it's chance, and the manufacturers ignored it.

     

    The best thing would be if Adobe provided RAW updates to earlier versions of CS than the current one, but it's a great upgrade ploy, and one I've decided not to fall for.

     

    Apple do it free and I'll be able to use Aperture 2 with any new camera I get in the future until an OS update breaks Aperture. I'm not having my arm twisted by Apple to go for V3 Aperture, like I would if I was using ACR within PS or Lightroom.

     

    You can usually get 5-10 years form an Apple app before that happens.

     

    I'm still on Final Cut studio 6 and it's bullet proof on Snow Leopard. Adobe abandon their non current releases when it comes to OS updates.

     

    5 grand on a new camera body and a few more on the next CS. Nah. Adobe don't have 3 billion turnover for nothing, and making money is fine, but there's a lot of double dipping they do that others don't :-)

     
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    Sep 7, 2010 12:14 AM   in reply to jakeymate1
    DNG didn't support the mosaic pattern in the CR2 file of the Mk2 or there was some issue making it awkward at the time.

     

    From memory it was updated to support that,

    Then you just didn't have the updated version of the converter.

     

    ACR and the DNG converter are updated in parallell. So when there's native support in ACR, there's support in the corresponding DNG converter version.

     

    The one thing I think they should do, is offer the DNG converter as a Bridge plugin. This way you could convert on import, instead of going through that extra step of first importing, then converting. There is already a DNG converter in Bridge, but it relies on the installed ACR version to read the files.

     
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    Sep 7, 2010 12:24 AM   in reply to D Fosse-QDEaQ1

    That's the point, there was while before the RAW and DNG update came out, and Adobe beat Apple by a week or so maybe. Adobe are fast generally, but you pay for it by having to be up to date.

     

    DNG was supposed to do away with all that updating when a new cam body comes out it needs updating just like ACR. Otherwise, what is it's point?

     

    In that case, why not dump DNG and provide ACR updates for all versions of CS? For software of that price, it seems the least they could do. They certainly don't update the software after you buy it. Maybe X.01 but not much else. No new features, not even small ones. For that, you need a full upgrade.

     

    Because it's a good ploy to force upgrades in people who might not need the absolute new version, and might prefer to pay for their kids education instead of a software update that they only need in order open RAW files for their new camera.

     

    I will bet my house that PS never gets off 12.01 until we see 13.0. 10 never got past 10.01. Adobe thinks it's perfect. No-one else does though.

     

    No new features or even bug fixes for a year or two.

     
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    Sep 7, 2010 12:31 AM   in reply to jakeymate1

    The really stupid thing is that camera manufacturers stick to their secret recipes instead of supporting an open standard like DNG.

     

    Leica did it, so why can't Nikon and Canon and the others?

     
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    Sep 7, 2010 12:45 AM   in reply to D Fosse-QDEaQ1

    And the thing is, it makes no sense. Manufacturers make no money from their RAW formats. They provide conversion software for free like Canon's DPP.

     

    I could see them not wanting to be beholden to Adobe, but as far as I know, didn't Adobe release DNG in to public domain?

     

    Win, win situation I would have thought for everyone.

     

    The odd thing is, if Adobe wanted to do a good thing, and get everyone on DNG, why are they so finicky about only releasing ACR RAW updates for current versions?

     

    On one hand, very giving, on the other very greedy.

     
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    Sep 7, 2010 2:02 AM   in reply to D Fosse-QDEaQ1
    The really stupid thing is that camera manufacturers stick to their secret recipes instead of supporting an open standard like DNG.

    Yeah its not that simple. The thing is that camera manufacturers (certainly Canon) don't like DNG. Its a quality issue. I know as soon as you take any fie into DNG Converter, quality seems to suffer, I've seen that myself. Despite what people might assume, as things stand at present Adobe unfortunately don't have any exclusivity in Quality in RAW processing. Quite the opposite in fact. And before anyone answers "Its only file a format" - you need to do your research

     
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