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New in CS5, why can't I render a file larger than 2.15 GB to a network drive?

Jul 14, 2010 7:43 PM

This started just as soon as I installed AE CS5. If I try to render to a shared network drive, once the file reaches 2.15 GB in size, either AE render crashes or the render completes but the file size is 2.15GB and it will not open or import back into AE. Rendering to a local drive works.

Why is this happening?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2010 7:50 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    if you are on windows, have you tried mapping the network drive to a drive letter and then rendering to that drive letter?

     
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    Jul 14, 2010 8:30 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    You are probably connected to the server via SMB instead of AFP, if the server is also a Mac. If it is, in the Finder, hit Command-K, type afp://<server address or dns name>. If you are connecting to a Windows Server or NAS, it may be using older versions of SAMBA or an old version Windows Server.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2010 10:13 AM   in reply to PKPictures

    This is probably not the case since it renders locally fine, but, in the "output" section of the prefs (or at least, it's in that section in CS4), are you segmenting movie file sizes after a certain limit has been reached? If you render to an image sequence instead, does the same problem occur at the same accumulative file size?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2010 5:33 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    I asked the engineers to take a look at this thread, and they said that it's a limitation in the new QuickTime Compression Session API that Apple asked us to use. You can work around the problem by using a non-QuickTime format or sending the file to a local disk.

     

    If that isn't workable, please file a feature request.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 15, 2010 6:32 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd, can you have the engineers define local disk? Will we have issues with SAN disks under XSAN, MetaSAN or SANmp or is this limited to just afp or all network protocols?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 20, 2010 12:09 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Hi Todd:

     

    I can understand that's it's difficult to work with Apple if they're giving you bad information, but didn't you guys bother to test this software across a network at all? It's not like generating quicktime movies > 2.15 GB on a network drive is an obscure workflow. And suggesting we submit a "feature request" to restore a major feature lost in this "upgrade" is a bit cheeky.

     

    Sorry to whinge, but seriously - shifting everything to image sequences is a major workflow nightmare, and rendering locally in a collaborative environment is a version-control nightmare. Please sort something out with Apple to get AFX CS5 working properly with Quicktime asap. Until then it's really just a beta release.

     

    I sure wouldn't have suggested purchasing it if I'd known about this first. And I definitely won't suggest anyone else gets it until this is fixed.

     
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    Sep 3, 2010 9:42 AM   in reply to Lang Walker

    I would like to second this. 

     

    Blaming this on Apple is not solving the issue.  This is very standard workflow and we rely on sharing renders over AFP and SAN.  It worked in CS3 and CS4.

     

    It's not a feature request, it's a bug.

     
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    Sep 3, 2010 10:04 AM   in reply to Brandon Kraemer

    Blaming this on Apple is not solving the issue.  This is very standard workflow and we rely on sharing renders over AFP and SAN.  It worked in CS3 and CS4.

     

    It's not a feature request, it's a bug.

     

    There was no blame; only explanation.

     

    The same form for feature requests can be used for bug reports. Call it whatever you wish, but you can register your need for this change using the link that I provided.

     
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    Sep 8, 2010 6:08 AM   in reply to PKPictures

    We are having exactly the same problem here! It ruins our whole Workflow...

     
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    Sep 8, 2010 9:13 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Thanks for clarifying that bug reports and feature requests are available on the same link.  "Blaming" was a poor choice of words on my part... but it's not like most of us know what "QuickTime Compression Session API" is... we just know our workflow is broken, hopefully temporarily.  That is the end user perspective I guess.  Glad to know the engineers are aware of this.  I did follow up and submit a bug report on this issue.

     

    thanks

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 8, 2010 5:41 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    I downloaded the 10.0.1 update this morning with great hope that it would address this problem, but After Effects CS5 is still incapable of creating QT files >2.15 GB on network drives. WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER TO RELEASE AN UPDATE THAT DIDN'T FIX A HUGE BUG THAT MAKES YOUR SOFTWARE SO DIFFICULT TO USE IN A COLLABORATIVE ENVIRONMENT?!? It's like releasing a version of Photoshop that doesn't work with TIF's > 5MB and acting like it's ok and up to the end users to change all their workflows.

     

    I'm writing to our supplier this morning to let them know about this problem with After Effects, and the cavalier reaction by the Adobe staff on these forums. I'm suggesting they advise any other enterprise clients of the problem before selling more licenses, as at this point I feel our serious expenditure in upgrading licenses and plugins was a colossal waste of money.

     

    Our artists are reporting that when AFXCS5 works correctly, it is much faster - but that it is also much more fragile and temperamental now. This might seem like a reasonable trade-off to the Adobe Marketing team, but it puts the utility of your software as a real production tool in jeopardy. All will be forgiven if you fix this ASAP in 10.0.2, but if this drags on much longer we'll be forced to re-think the core position of After Effects in our production pipeline.

     

    Adobe, please don't turn into Quark.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 17, 2010 5:22 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    Here's a message from the engineering manager responsible for this area:

     

    "To support the new compression APIs that give us access to the two-pass encoding and good stuff in H.264 encoders etc., we need to use the Apple API AddMediaSample2. It is critical for frame reordering to work and gives us access to 64-bit time samples, which means we can export longer movies.

     

    HOWEVER, AddMediaSample2 has a bug that AddMediaSample1 doesn't. That  is when you hit 2.15 gigs on an AFP volume, the function returns -1309  (fileBoundsErr) and we are stuck and can't do anything else. 

     

    We are not the only people reporting this. As posted on the Apple QT list:

    http://lists.apple.com/archives/quicktime-api/2006/Aug/msg00235.html

     

    We are tracking this bug with Apple."

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 17, 2010 8:07 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Thanks for that update ... Sorry to be so shrill with my complaints, but it is a pretty big issue for us (and others I'd assume). It helps to know that you're onto it and trying to sort something out with the Cupertino crowd.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2010 12:27 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    Some of the video files I work with are for large res video walls and  thereby terabytes in size. We always work uncompressed until we have to compress. We do have a RAID setup on the main machine,  however, I'm not sure THAT'S enough room for some of these files "Locally".(Not to mention the time it takes to copy them back over to the network afterwards so they can be backed up.)

     

    I hope this  doesn't spin off into another wrestling match between Apple and Adobe.  The two (QT and AE) have worked hand in hand for most of us for so long.

     

    Consider this not a complaint, but a plea... please remedy this ASAP. I've got another HUGE project coming LOL. I'm sure that would make us all very happy people.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2010 1:09 PM   in reply to Vision3Jason

    Vision3Jason,

     

    We're working on it.

     

    In the meantime, I'll suggest again that looking at a workflow that doesn't involve directly rendering and exporting to a self-contained .mov file has advantages beyond just working around this issue: Rendering and exporting to image sequences and then assembling those in QuickTime Pro (or whatever else) after the fact can be a lot easier to deal with in some cases, especially when dealing with network rendering.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2010 12:43 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    Todd,

     

    Thanks for the quick follow-up. That's going to the plan for now. Image Sequence –>.mov–>Network.

     

    Thanks again for working on it.

     

    -J

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 15, 2010 10:13 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Hello Todd,

    I just need to join to this discussion because of its importance.

    Like others here we are working with very large files over the Network which need to be, and to stay, -quicktimes.

    This because all the files carry sound.

    If we had known this issue before would have never made this upgrade.

    I just want to encourage to give top priority to this topic.

    Thank you very much for your understanding.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 15, 2010 11:31 AM   in reply to Rook888

    Another caveat to image sequences is they don't always play so well in a SAN environment.  Bring on the QT fix, the sooner the better.

     
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    Oct 25, 2010 4:05 PM   in reply to Brandon Kraemer

    I don't have a lot of new information on this, but I wanted to at least update this thread to tell you that we're still on this, and we're talking with Apple about what can be done.

     

    If anyone has any questions about workarounds in the meantime, we're here to help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2010 6:14 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Thank you very much for your effort and keeping us informed.

    In the meantime here is another funny one:

    Due to this situation we decided to render out in a Tiff sequence -and then to convert this back to a animation quicktime.

    We encountered a problem with a certain tiff-seqence where we are unable to create a animation quicktime from it.

    We can make uncompressed quicktime or compressed formats from it,-but nothing

    with animation codec.

    we would like to give you a link to this special file.

    Thank you very much,

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2010 9:00 AM   in reply to Rook888

    > we would like to give you a link to this special file.

     

     

    Please attach the problematic file to a detailed bug report and send it to aebugs -at- adobe -dot- com. Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 1, 2010 9:00 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Why isnt this fixed yet?

    This is a serious setback in installing CS5 in my production facility.

    I also teach at local college and have expressed that its not worth upgrading to CS5 until this is resolved.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 1, 2010 10:22 AM   in reply to erics6419
    > Why isnt this fixed yet?

     

    As stated a few times on this thread, this fix relies on a fix from Apple. Such things don't happen instantaneously. We're working on it.

     

    This is a serious setback in installing CS5 in my production facility.

    I also teach at local college and have expressed that its not worth upgrading to CS5 until this is resolved.

     

     

     

    There are several workarounds available, as described above. If you would like help with these, let us know.

     

    This problem only affects QuickTime movies rendered across a network. It doesn't affect other container types, image sequences, QuickTime movies rendered to a local drive, or QuickTime movies below 2.15GB.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 1, 2010 12:35 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    We use AFP off a XServe Leopard system.

    The resources and AE docs reside on the network.

    Even if you render to local, this doesnt work.

    Ive tested everything under the sun.

    We even installed MainConcept MPEG Encoder and used that as the codec.

    It just crashes trying that route.

    Were still forced to use CS4.

    Having a hard time explaining this to my company after spending 12k on upgrades.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 12, 2010 1:06 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Since Im in-between projects I figured Id test this again.

    Nope it does not work for us here using CS5 projects sitting locally on the Mac Pro.

    No network at all and still this 2GB file limit issue.

     

    Then we purchased MainConcept Reference 2.1 MPEG Encoder.

    Works great with CS4 (Render Output option).

    Does not work under CS5 at all via Render Output.

    Its been over a few months now and still problem persists?

     

    And I thought CS4 was the worse upgrade ever (for us).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 28, 2010 11:51 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Hi Todd,

     

    Thanks for all your help in explaining the problem publically. I just have a couple of quick questions if you don't mind.

     

    1) If this bug truly lies with Apple (and I most certainly believe it does at its core), why doesn't Adobe reimplement their old way of doing things from CS3 (don't have CS4 in house, so I don't know if it works in that version) in the meantime to solve this particular problem? Seems like a waste to wait on Apple when Adobe already has in-house code that doesn't have this problem.

     

    2) From the reports you've been getting (and this is open for anyone else to chime in on), is this issue only limited to Snow Leopard, or does it occur with Leopard 10.5 installations as well? My studio is finally all upgraded to 10.6 SL, and I don't have the time or energy to roll back a production machine to 10.5 just to see if the bug still occurs there.

     

    Again, I appreciate the time you've taken to describe the problem, but it seems pretty disingenuous to lay the blame at Apple and wait for them to fix it rather than actively seek to find an appropriate solution within AE (not that I'm saying you guys are ignoring it completely). Every single motion graphics facility I've worked with in the Hollywood-based film/TV industry uses this workflow to render out product, and to continually recommend using workarounds doesn't seem like the best "solution" to the problem.

     

    Jason

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 28, 2010 12:04 PM   in reply to fwstudio

    fwstudio,

     

    I assure you that there are several people working within Adobe to address this issue.

     

    The problem exists because a rather large set of functionality was moved to a new API, and that API has a deficiency. Fixing such an issue is not a fast thing, even when it involves only one company and its engineering teams; it is certainly not fast when multiple companies and their engineering teams are involved.

     

    Don't think that my recommendations of workarounds are intended as dismissal of the issue. They're just the best that we can offer at this moment.

     

    Regarding your question about Mac OSX v10.6 vs. 10.5: The OS isn't relevant. The change was between CS4 and CS5 and which QuickTime API we use.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 28, 2010 12:10 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd,

     

    Thank you so much for your lightning fast response! As a former QA tester at Apple, I understand the process and lead times that go into such fixes. I absolutely appreciate all the hard work you guys are doing, and other than that AE CS5 is still a great product. If there's anything I can ever to to assist in testing, it would be my pleasure to do so. Thanks again, and happy new year to you and the entire CS5 dev crew!

     

    Jason

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 13, 2011 10:17 PM   in reply to PKPictures

    It's been 7 months since this problem was first reported here ... and it's still driving us crazy with no end in sight. Has this just become a permanent part of CS5 now? Do we just need to wait for CS6 to see if "newly restored – ability to render quicktime in a network environment" is listed as an exciting new feature?

     

    Not that we plan on upgrading Adobe software very quickly in the future given the problems we've had with CS5 After Effects quicktime rendering and CS5 Photoshop type tool crashes ... and Adobe's glacial response to fixing anything (except for incessant Bridge and Pixel Blender Toolkit tweaks).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 14, 2011 10:15 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd,

     

    Is there an update for this issue yet?
     
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    Feb 14, 2011 10:24 AM   in reply to Luke_nexgen

    I can't give details, but I will say that I have seen encouraging action by Apple on addressing their end of this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 17, 2011 6:23 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd,

    Thanks for the quick response.

     

    quick comment:

     

    Our  company also upgraded to CS5 and found we could not render quicktimes  from our local computers to our network drive. (Bossman was  pretty excited about that after almost a  10grand upgrade). However, we have three render boxes that are running  the CS5 render engine (also working over the same network) and those  little guys have no problem slapping  down quicktime files on the network drive (average file size abour 6 gigs)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 17, 2011 8:28 AM   in reply to Luke_nexgen

    Must be new option. Old multi-machine network render was frames only. Or maybe you have a script to take frames and export to QT. I'm up for that if it works :)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 18, 2011 3:41 AM   in reply to PKPictures

    In my opinion - this whole issue was flubbed by the Adobe team. This is a HUGE setback for network based workflows (as seen in numerous posts). Your suggestion of rendering image sequences really bites for the many workflows that rely on scratch audio from AE. Adobe should have realized this whole issue far before releasing CS5 and should have been working with Apple on this in the betas so professional's dont have to suffer the consequences. Adobe, I know you are working with Apple on a fix but DUDES, if you are going to use another companie's API you best be checking to see if things work properly before selling your product for big moneys.

     

    Looking forward to a major bug fix. I refuse to request this a feature...

     
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    Feb 19, 2011 7:36 PM   in reply to colorkite

    @colorkite: Amen!

     
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