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Rivergoat
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LR 3.2 Trial - crashing during sharpening mask

Oct 5, 2010 8:01 AM

Trying out the program as my old Photoshop 7 doesn't have the features I need these days. Anyway, I have noticed that once into shapening with a JPEG or DEF, as soon as I slide the sharpening mask slider even to a value of "1" the program crashes. Other sharpening effects seem to work fine. PC is an AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (yes, I read the threads regarding a glitch with this processor and Photoshop CS5, which was finally fixed with a patch - don't know if something similar exists in LR), 2.5GB RAM, XP sp3, all the usual robustness to allow the program to work. Is there a setting or control I am neglecting (the beauty of trial version is to test everything before buying!). I admit I do not know all the features of LR yet, but don't think it should crash if I move that slider??? Thoguhts appreciated.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2010 5:14 PM   in reply to Rivergoat

    This may not have caused the initial crash but you can check the following. When LR opens a catalog it creates a file called "Lightroom 3 Catalog.lrcat.lock" along side the Catalog File.

    This is to ensure that there is no other use of the catalog while it is open. When LR is closed in the normal way the .lock file is automatically deleted. If however LR closes unexpectedly the .lock file will remain in place preventing LR from starting again. See the screen capture of the relevant folder when LR is open.

    With LR closed go to your My Pictures>Lightroom folder and check if there is a .lock file present. If there is one delete the file and then try starting LR.

     

    Image00020.jpg

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
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    Oct 5, 2010 7:22 PM   in reply to Rivergoat

    Exactly the same happens on my PC with AMD Athlon XP 3000+, also XP sp3 and 2.5 MB. Using the Masking slider makes LR 3.2 crash. Help please!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 6, 2010 5:28 AM   in reply to Rivergoat

    Lightroom might use some SSE2 or later instructions that your Athlon does not support. According to Wikipedia, Athlon XP 2800+ support only SSE.

     

    Anyone know what SSE, if any, is Lightroom using?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 6, 2010 5:42 AM   in reply to Rivergoat

    Go to Start > Settings > Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Event Viewer, Application Tab

     

    Is there an event for the Lr crash there? What is in the event Properties?

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated

    I don't think that has anything to do with it, because sometimes adjusting the Masking slider does not make Lightroom crash. It can just happen, randomly I'm afraid.

    I thought it happened mostly with high ISO shots but after some testing that is not exactly the case. Though it seems to happen more often with >400 ISO shots, it can also occur with <400 ISO ones.

     

    About an hour ago I developed an ISO 200 image and everything was ok. Reading your reply made me start LR again and develop some pictures, everytime I invoked the Masking it made LR crash.

    Then I reopend the shot that I developed an hour ago and readjusted the Masking slider (from 25 to 35). LR did not crash.

    Developed some other ones, again LR didn't crash.

     

    So it seems that every time LR is started it thinks by itself: What shall I do this time, behave myself or not?

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
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    Oct 6, 2010 6:28 AM   in reply to clvrmnky

    @ clvrminsky

     

    Thanks for your reply. I think I finally found what you ment (my Windows is in Dutch so I had to search a bit):

     

    "Lightroom.exe, version 3.2.0.10 crashed on the module cameraraw.dll at offset 0x002b729F"

     

    BTW, I rarely use RAW files, 95% are jpeg's.

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
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    Oct 6, 2010 1:44 PM   in reply to HarrieB

    Since clvrmnky (sorry I misspelled that name, but hey) made me aware of the Event Viewer and saw that there was a problem with cameraraw.dll I decided to start Bridge again (haven't used it since going from LR 2.x to LR 3).

    Well, it produces the same error, and - again - seems to do so randomly. So if there is something wrong with the combination of AMD/Athlon and Cameraraw, it will be hard to pinpoint the problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 6, 2010 2:05 PM   in reply to Rivergoat

    0xc0000005 is an "access violation." Something tried to access a place in memory that was illegal or impossible. We don't know which operation failed because we don't have a symbolic crashdump (we just have an offset), but we know it was in CameraRaw.dll. This does not automatically mean that this DLL is suspect, only that this is where it was when it did something bad. It could have been given a bad address by something else.

     

    CameraRaw.dll is a workhorse utility DLL that offers a lot of image services. In fact, I suspect it crashes in a different place for raw vs. JPEG images. If not, it is probably in the GDIplus stuff.  There are no CPU or GPU specific functions in this DLL, and I'm pretty sure Lr has no dependencies on specific CPU or GPU calls -- it just makes generic calls to the OS for such resources. Ps had to do this in the past in order to squeeze more performance out of then-current workstations (and it is a 100% compiled native app) but generally this sort of trickery is no longer required. Doing stuff like this is always a trade-off between performance and testing/support nightmares, and you are at the mercy of the various CPU and GPU revisions out there.

     

    Lr offloads a lot of its stuff to a Lua VM, which acts as a sort of glue between various image services and native UI services. The win here is that it is relatively easy to port Lr to various platforms, and you don't have to maintain such large multiple streams of code lines for each platform.

     

    Report what you can to Adobe, and copy and paste as much of the crash log(s) you have. A .dmp file would be nice, but this takes a little tweaking to get right. If Adobe needs it, they can instruct you have to provide this. Make sure you know if you are running in 64-bit mode or not.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 14, 2010 1:55 PM   in reply to Rivergoat

    Same thing for me too

    Lightroom 3.2 crashes every time I am trying to use masking in the sharpening tool.

    And no, this is not SSE related.

    I have used the debugger and saw that it crashes because of use of uninitialized pointer.

    I will test this issue on other machine tomorrow and will post the results.

    Hope this will be fixed in the near future...

     

    // Added

    I have debugged LR a little bit more.

    It crashes because it does not allocate memory for the image data, but tries to use it.

    As a temporary workaround - you can move 'Clarity' slider on a needed photo, then reset it if you do not want to increase clarity.

    This will allocate memory properly.

    Now you can move Masking slider in the 'sharpening' tool without a crash.

    And as another side effect of this bug - selecting any slider in the sharpening tool with pressed alt should show you the effect on the grayscaled image, but it works not every time.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 15, 2010 2:45 AM   in reply to cppasm

    And no, this is not SSE related.

    I have used the debugger and saw that it crashes because of use of uninitialized pointer.

    The fact that it makes an AV, does not necessarily mean it is not related to SSE. You don't know the code paths in ACR. It could go to another branch for non-SSE2 CPUs and access a bad pointer in a routine that is not used by newer processors. So, far everyone that reported this problem is running an Athlon XP (non-SSE2 CPU).

     

    What is your CPU model?

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
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    Oct 15, 2010 5:31 AM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    @Dorin,

    It's indeed an AMD Athlon XP 3000+ running at 2.15 GHz.

     

    @123-and-a-lot-of-z's

    I tried the trick with the clarity slider and this workaround seems to help. Thank you for your investigation!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 15, 2010 6:12 AM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    Well, it looks like it is related to SSE, but not directly.

    I mean that program crashes not because of use of unsupported SSE instruction, but because of use of uninitialized pointer (zero).

    Checked on Pentium 4 machine - code path that crashes LR on Athlon XP does not executes at all.

    My CPU is Athlon XP too.

     

    On Athlon XP LR crashes in CameraRaw.dll at relative virtual address 0x2B729F (0x607B729F if it is loaded at default base address).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 15, 2010 9:55 AM   in reply to Rivergoat

    And now I must tell you what's wrong with this method...

    Moving clarity slider will allow you to change masking ONLY in the current session.

    I mean if you move clarity, then move masking slider and then restart LR - it will crash again when trying to display photo with sharpening masking settings.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 15, 2010 12:00 PM   in reply to cppasm

    Well, some hours spend in the debugger and I've made fix for this crashes.

    You can download it from here: http://www.multiupload.com/99210FAR5H

    Note: USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK.

    While it works just great for me, I can not promise anything.

    And note that this is NOT official fix for the problem, it needs to be fixed by developers so it's better to send bug reports.

    This solution can be used while there are no better solutions from Adobe.

    This fix is only for 32-bit Lightroom 3.2

    To install - just unpack this library to the folder where you have your LR installed.

    For example C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3.2

    It is better to save original library (to be able rollback all changes) and then overwrite it with this fix.

    In fact this is original CameraRaw.dll, but just little patched.

    Hope this will work for you too

    Enjoy.

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
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    Oct 15, 2010 2:36 PM   in reply to cppasm

    YES !!! THIS SEEMS TO WORK !!!

    I tried it on some pictures and the application did not crash. Thank you very much 123zzzzzzz and I hope Adobe contacts you so you can share your solution with them.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 16, 2010 2:15 AM   in reply to HarrieB

    Glad to see that this helps.

    But PLEASE, send bug reports.

    The more bug reports will be sent, the faster Adobe will fix this issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 28, 2010 3:25 AM   in reply to Rivergoat

    Did someone tested this issue with new Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3.3 Release Candidate?

    It can be downloaded here: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/lightroom3-3.html

    Have this problem been fixed, or we need to report it once more?

    I'll try to test it in a few days...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 28, 2010 4:12 AM   in reply to cppasm

    Sorry, don't have a Pentium III or Athlon XP around...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 28, 2010 7:01 AM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    It's not neccessary to have those CPU's to test.

    On Windows OS processor without SSE2 support can be faked by changing values returned by IsProcessorFeaturePresent().

     

    And unfortunately the bug is still there

    Now Lightroom crashes in CameraRaw.dll at 0x607B977F.

    It looks like they are not going to fix it at all...

     

    Well, stay tuned.

    If the problem will persist in LR 3.3 final release, I'll fix it by myself as in LR 3.2

    Keep sending bug reports...

     

    I have made small investigation and found out that this bug is present in all Lightroom 3.x versions.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 28, 2010 11:54 AM   in reply to Rivergoat

    Well, for those who don't like to wait

    CameraRaw.dll from Lightroom 3.3 RC1 fixed for non-SSE2 CPUs.

    http://www.multiupload.com/PMHYLNYVGI

    Usage instructions are same as with previous versions, just overwrite original library in the Lightroom application folder.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 28, 2010 1:39 PM   in reply to cppasm

    cppasm wrote:

     

    It looks like they are not going to fix it at all...

    According to the system requirements, Windows users need at least a Pentium 4.

     

    http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshoplightroom/systemreqs/

     

    So, I doubt this will ever be addressed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 29, 2010 1:28 AM   in reply to clvrmnky

    clvrmnky wrote:

     

    According to the system requirements, Windows users need at least a Pentium 4.

    So what? You can not use it on any 32-bit AMD CPU?

    Lightroom works fine on those CPUs, and this is NOT CPU-related problem, this is memory management problem.

    Lightroom just have a number of implementations of the same things optimized for different processors, and memory management bug comes out only in implementation for CPU without SSE2.

    So Lightroom supports AMD CPUs in its own, but implementation just have bug with memory allocation.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 29, 2010 9:24 AM   in reply to cppasm

    cppasm wrote:

     

    clvrmnky wrote:

     

    According to the system requirements, Windows users need at least a Pentium 4.

    So what? You can not use it on any 32-bit AMD CPU?

    Lightroom works fine on those CPUs, and this is NOT CPU-related problem, this is memory management problem.

    Lightroom just have a number of implementations of the same things optimized for different processors, and memory management bug comes out only in implementation for CPU without SSE2.

    So Lightroom supports AMD CPUs in its own, but implementation just have bug with memory allocation.

     

    It is related to CPU when we are talking about which instructions sets are supported, or not.

     

    You need a P4 "or equivalent" and that means you will have SSE2. Some AMD CPUs are not equivalent to P4. Therefore: not supported.

     

    This is what "system requirements" mean. It may work in other cases until it fails, but that is not Adobe's problem because they have made their architecture requirements clear.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 29, 2010 12:00 PM   in reply to clvrmnky

    clvrmnky wrote:

    It is related to CPU when we are talking about which instructions sets are supported, or not.

    Lightroom crashes not because of use of unsupported instructions, but because it tries to use unallocated memory.

    This is memory management issue, not CPU issue.

    P4 users may have memory leaks due to this bug, Lightroom is not crashing - but this does not mean that everything is ok.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2010 2:31 AM   in reply to cppasm

    Unfortunately, the bug is still there in the LR 3.3 Final Release.

    Patched library will be available at the end of the day.

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2010 4:24 AM   in reply to cppasm

    Will you please let us know where we can download the patch?

    It has been the only solution this far.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2010 5:12 AM   in reply to HarrieB

    Yes, ofcourse.

    I will post the link here a little bit later.

    I am currently at work and have no free time at the moment to patch the library, but quick analysis shows that the problem is the same.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2010 12:37 PM   in reply to HarrieB

    Oops, I did it again

    Just overwrite original library in the application folder (32-bit only).

    LR 3.3 sharpening crash fix for non-SSE2 CPUs:

    http://www.multiupload.com/47ZE7BGIV5

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2010 2:38 PM   in reply to cppasm

    Great! Just downloaded and installed LR3.3 plus your patch and I'm up & running again. Thanks and keep on going with your good work!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2010 9:11 AM   in reply to HarrieB

    Not surprisingly, Adobe Camera Raw 6.3 have the same problem.

    To completely fix this problem, you should also install patched Camera Raw plug-in.

    Download link, 32-bit only: http://www.multiupload.com/SDPSHS6IK8

    Just overwrite original plug-in, by default it is located in the: C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Plug-Ins\CS5\File Formats

    This will fix the problem for all CS5 applications: Photoshop, Bridge, etc because they all use this plug-in.

    Sorry, but I will not patch previous versions, so you will need to update Camera Raw to version 6.3 before using patched plug-in.

    This problem is present in all Camera Raw 6.x and appears only on non-SSE2 CPUs.

     
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  • HarrieB
    342 posts
    Nov 11, 2009
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    May 6, 2011 5:00 AM   in reply to cppasm

    You helped a lot of us out with your version of CameraRaw 6.3. But 6.4 shows the same problems on non-SSE2 CPU's.

    Could you do your magic trick again (the one Adobe can't seem to perform)?

     

    Message was edited by: harrieb

     

    Message was edited by: harrieb

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2011 6:03 AM   in reply to HarrieB

    Hi. I have no free time at the moment.

    But I will patch the ACR 6.4 and LR 3.4 and post the link to patch here in the near future (during next week I hope).

    So keep checking this topic from time to time.

     
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