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Pay for InContext ???

Mar 19, 2009 1:33 AM

  Latest reply: SEOConsultant, Dec 7, 2010 4:27 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 1:22 PM   in reply to Bobxyzzy

    I will be avoiding BC like the plague. I've already been burned  (a lot of $ and time) by Adobe's disregard of my business and my clients. I won't make that mistake again. There are some really good and easy to implement alternatives (many listed here on the forum).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 1:24 PM   in reply to ew3d

    Good point about Flash. Jeez it took me a long time to learn AS, and now it doesn't work on the iPhone or iPad?

    Waste of my time and brain cells. They really need to get their act together.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 1:31 PM   in reply to ew3d

    Hello ew3d,

     

    One thing I want to emphasize is the fact the InContext Editing service is going to remain operational until early 2011 for already registered websites. Those sites will keep all the functionality, including adding users and will give everyone a lead time to select the best solution for their needs.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Cristinel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 1:33 PM   in reply to smasheasy

    Without getting into a big debate about it, but it's not Adobe's fault Flash doesn't work on the iPhone or iPad, that was a decision made by Apple and announced after CS5 was announced to be released. Adobe needs to get Flash to deal with html5, but in the end Apple decided to ban it so they could be more closed and proprietary and make people use programming that they want while excluding many of it's own users and developers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 1:48 PM   in reply to cristinel@adobe

    "One thing I want to emphasize is the fact the InContext Editing service  is going to remain operational until early 2011 for already registered  websites. Those sites will keep all the functionality, including adding  users and will give everyone a lead time to select the best solution for  their needs."

     

    That means absolutely nothing to me. To EVER have to pay for ICE is unconscionable. I bought the software, and nowhere on the package did it say I would ever have to pay for it.

     

    -Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 1:49 PM   in reply to cristinel@adobe

    Yes, but CS4 is apparently already in EOL stage as it is not being repaired. I just can't get over an EOL to a version 'before' the release of the next version and in fact cannot understand an EOL for at least a year after the new release.

     

    Sorry of topic here: The item I am referring to is the broken browse to directory feature in Dreamweaver when setting up or editing a new site. At least in Vista and Windows 7 it leaves you one directory below where you wish to be and without careful attention, as you cannot see the end of the path created, you're set up in the entirely wrong place. Making this mistake a second time creates conflicting website directories on the local computer.

     

    I as well as what appears to be many others seem to believe we are being treated very badly by Adobe. I don't particularly care for one large Redmond company, but at the moment I'm feeling like I am disliking Adobe more. That is no easy task to accomplish.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 2:24 PM   in reply to mikenytola

    I think Apple might put a little different spin on the Flash picture.

     

    Note that Flash not working on iPhone has been around since the beginning.  Nothing new at all.  There has never to my knowledge been a commitment that it would be supported at any particular point - again, just hopes and futures.

     

    I think of Flash in two contexts.  One is as a popular tool for serving video.  The other is as a general tool for flashy, dynamic user experiences that was designed to get around the limitations of what could be done with HTML.

     

    The flashy pages have long been deprecated by a lot of people.  That is (was) based on considerations like esthetics, bandwidth, and performance more than the particular tool that brought it to us.  (Flash enabled new levels of bad taste, so to speak)

     

    On the video side, my understanding is that the iPhone insides are rather carefully designed to squeeze out sufficient performance to play specific video encodings and sizes.  I have the impression there is dedicated hardware in it to do that task, and it is done in a very specific way that perhaps Flash does not interface with.  Also, generally I understand that Apple at least says things along the lines that Flash presents vulnerabilities and/or attack vectors that are unacceptable for the user experience they want to deliver.  I suspect there is a significant hardware and memory issue too.  It appears Apple and Adobe simply can not get together on the subject.  It may also be that some of that is about being able to limit App distribution to the iTunes channel.  Those limitations may not be desirable, but it certainly seems to have been exceedingly successful.

     

    The big factor now is that HTML5 is providing native support for video and at least some level of other dynamic graphics.  It is not all the way there yet, but it is developing into a much better, much more standard paradigm for those purposes, and as such it is looking like it will be displacing more and more Flash use.  With the addition of the iPad to the mix site designers are either going to have to use HTML5 instead of Flash, or provide two versions, or have more and more of their audience unable to see their sites.  When I serf to a site on an iPhone or an iPad and find that little icon instead of the main content, I now ask myself how much the site owners care about reaching their audience, and of course they fail to communicate with me and waste my visit.  Is it something like 85 million iPhones surfing the web?  And now something like half a million iPads added in just the first week?  How long can site owners afford to not change their site designs to work were there is no Flash support?

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 3:04 PM   in reply to Bobxyzzy

    Completely understandable, but there are also the millions of users that will also ask how much does Apple care about it's users and why will Apple not give me the choice to pick what I want, and not be told to do what they want. They disregard giving people a choice and are very controling. If Flash apps didn't work well on the iPhone or iPad, people will not use them and choose ones that they do like, but at least they can choose not to use them and are not forced into something they may or may not want. It's very simple. I think that is the big problem that I have at least with Apples decision. Don't tell me what I do and do not like or what is or isn't good for me, let me choose for myself.

     

    Sorry for getting off topic. Please continue with the InContext issues.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 3:02 PM   in reply to Bobxyzzy

     

    Hello,

     

    My name is Rich and I’m the product marketing manager for InContext Editing. I know that many of you are disappointed with the upcoming changes, and I understand that some difficulties can come with the discontinuation of a product. This might not make it any easier, but I wanted to share some human insight into the decisions that were made.

     

    It wasn’t easy making this decision. It was especially hard because many of you used InContext Editing on a regular basis and registered multiple sites with it. For me InContext Editing has special meaning, being the first product I was hired to work on at Adobe. It wasn’t easy for the team either, who worked hard on it for years. The service had its limitations – some people like it that way and others said it wasn’t enough. The overwhelming feedback that we’ve heard, from not only this forum, was that InContext Editing needed to support dynamic sites, CMS, and even hosting. We also had numerous requests for white labeling support and the ability for developers to charge clients directly. The platform for Business Catalyst could support these functions, in addition to its other capabilities.

     

    We debated for months, but the conclusion was that we had to choose one service going forward. Developing and maintaining both services would have been counterproductive, so we made the hard decision to discontinue standalone development of InContext Editing, and integrate it as a part of Business Catalyst. To make the move easier, our engineers worked hard to make sure that previously defined editable regions would be intact after importing sites to BC. Collectively we fought to extend the availability of InContext Editing as much as we could, to about a year from now.

     

    A recurring theme on the forum is the cost of Business Catalyst. There is no cost to register as a free partner, which allows you to create sites for your clients. Each site you create with BC includes a 30-day trial. When your client is ready to “go live,” there are different cost structures depending on what they need, with the basic plan starting at $16 per month. For those who are more serious about using BC for more than one or two sites, you can invest a one-time fee of $995 for a higher level of partnership to get greater support and more features, but this is certainly not mandatory.

     

    I don’t want to make this a pitch for Business Catalyst, but hopefully this clears things up a little. For those of you don’t find Business Catalyst to fit your needs, we hope the period from now until 2011 gives you enough time for another solution.

     

    Another topic I’d like to cover is the notification email. It was sent to everyone who has registered for an InContext Editing account, developers and clients alike. The idea behind this was to inform as many users as possible. I sincerely apologize for troubles this might have caused, especially getting calls from panicked clients.

     

    Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope this have given you more insight into our decisions.

     

    Best Regards,

    Rich

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 3:16 PM   in reply to rich@adobe

    $16 for BC per month is impossible for my clients. I live in a low cost-of-living area and I only charge $200-$300 per website I create. Many of my customers are non-profit organizations. I've got a preacher who uses ICE to post his sermons. His congregation is less than 100. No way can he afford $16/month. Likewise for a job skills training org that just barely has their head above water. It all comes down to the fact that when I bought CS4, it didn't state on the package that I would eventually have to pay extra for one of it's features.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 3:17 PM   in reply to rich@adobe

    wow, big time talking points.

    kudos to your attorneys, and pr firm.

    but nfw I'm buying into BC

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 23, 2010 3:32 PM   in reply to rich@adobe

    Hi Rich,

     

    Thank you for posting. It is nice to see Adobe is listening at various levels.

     

    Our company does run it's own servers. The operating system we run comes with a guaranteed EoL. This provides us with a very good idea as to when major upgrade work will need to be accomplished. I do think there is a great importance to having an answer about software life before one joins in.

     

    I also feel like a 2 week announcement period was entirely too short. Yes, we can use it for the next year, thanks for that... but what about the new clients in queue to move to us with new sites. At this moment I have sold them a service that I likely cannot deliver at the moment the new website goes live.

     

    Adobe could fix this issue with up front explanations of products particularly 'trial' modules and clear lifetime expectancies for products. Only then can we make intelligent decisions that will not leave us in costly emergency situations.

     

    Only then could I even begin to consider something like BC. I am also now going to sit back when new releases of Adobe products come out, so I can perhaps get a much better idea about what is really included or not.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 3, 2010 4:07 PM   in reply to [S]up

    Terms of use... MY ***, CS5 no longer will support INcontext Editing.... it's a joke right? The only reason I purchased Dreamweaver CS4 was for Incontext Editing. Perhaps a class action law suit is in order. Adobe you are a bunch of bullies and NO you MAY NOT take my clients into your so called " Adobe Business Catalyst", why should I give them to you for hosting fees, GET REAL! Adobe, you are nothing but a joke, agreedy joke. I want my money back for Dreamweaver CS4!!!!!!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 9:11 AM   in reply to [S]up

    This stinks!  Adobe have a moral obligation to at least let existing ICE sites run for free using this new service.  I purchased CS4 specifically for ICE and the free service it provided.  I noticed Adobe said they never promised a free service forever - BUT - they never said we would have to pay at some point either.  I have GP Practice sites using this facility.  There is no way any of the clients will pay this much per month for the occasional updates they do.  They don't want all the gizmos that come with the new service - just to UPDATE THEIR SITES.

     

    I think we should all get together and sue Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 10:13 AM   in reply to webAdore

    I've gone over to PageLime for the non-techies and Wordpress for clients who are interested in playing around and adding a blog, if they want to.

     

    I might update the Dreamweaver element of CS4, but certainly not the rest - and shall be treating Adobe's offerings with a good deal more caution in the future.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 10:22 AM   in reply to maggie ourpets

    There are plenty of other great online CMS solutions to explore (no particular order here):

     

    http://www.konductor.net

    http://www.pagelime.com
    http://www.cushycms.com
    http://surrealcms.com
    http://flyspeck.net

    http://grabaperch.com
    http://www.concrete5.org
    http://unify.unitinteractive.com  (UNIFY allows you to install everything on your own server. No need for a middle-man CMS host.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 10:22 AM   in reply to webAdore

    I tried PageLime's free 3 sites for my clients. They liked it, and it was easy and fast to  implement. So I went for the $19.95/month for 50 sites. It doesn't work for every site, though. I had one site (that I didn't create, but updated) that was done on a weird format template. Doesn't work for that. Otherwise, I'm happy.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 10:34 AM   in reply to smasheasy

    I hadn't considered an alternative.  What is the nearest CMS to ICE?  ie ability to allow user update of editable regions only, restrict fonts etc?

     

    Given you have to move your site to Business Catalyst AND you cannot run any type of server-side scripting it pretty much makes ICE redundant in any form.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 11:44 AM   in reply to smasheasy

    Hey Smash... I never did see that you finally signed up for the Pro plan. If you're having problems with a site, let me know what it is & I'll try to fish it out for ya.

     

    I can't get it through to enough people.. PageLime is the simplest system, you're gonna come across, yet its so powerful... I don't understand why everyone isn't just jumping right on it. It will ahndle just about any SSI page or flat site you can throw at it.. and if it doesn't, let them know and it will !!!

     

    If your not onboard yet.. check out their Demo Video @ PageLime

     

    smasheasy wrote:

     

    I tried PageLime's free 3 sites for my clients. They liked it, and it was easy and fast to  implement. So I went for the $19.95/month for 50 sites. It doesn't work for every site, though. I had one site (that I didn't create, but updated) that was done on a weird format template. Doesn't work for that. Otherwise, I'm happy.

    -Tom

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 1:42 PM   in reply to Tommy Logic

    The link you sent didn't work, but I'd be interested to know why this particular site doesn't work with PageLime.

    Find me at tourmaline@smasheasy.com

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2010 7:30 PM   in reply to razorxdev

    Hey Razor.  That is a great list of ICE alternatives.  I really like the Unify program.  Do you know of any CMS systems similar to the Unify that are Open Source?

     

    Thanks you.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2010 5:47 PM   in reply to [S]up

    Man, couldn't agree more..I am SO ANGRY! I too only upgraded to cs4 from 3 because of the incontext editing feature. I have only had it 3 months and now its features are useless to me! I wish there was some credible competition out there so adobe didn't have a monopoly over the market! Adobe claim they did this for features we have all been asking for-yeah right! Money making exercise. Tried calling adobe and their staff dont even know what in context editing is!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2010 6:30 PM   in reply to Webxsites

    Yes it is pretty fn' sad when Adobe support doesn't even know what they are selling. Pretty retarded if you ask me. While I used IE I had a technical support question that NEVER got solved by even their 2nd level tech support team, but even before escalating to a 2nd level tech support, I had to EXPLAIN to the operataor what InContext Ediditn was and the fact that it was a product suppoerted by Adobe Dreamweaver... good God, what a BUNCH OF MORONS!! The support team eventually after 4 weeks told me there was NO way to fix the problem but after some digging and doing some testing around I, myself found the answer solution. Their server was crapping out and corrupted all user names and passwords and only way to fix it was to delete my Incontext E. wesbites and re-add them. That was all, and it worked but according to tech support MY websites were not compatible... and could not be used. "Or so they say..." that was BS because all 3 sites worked just fine for 5 months until THEY did an update to their servers or software, and BROKE it.... All I can say is "Abobe you need to stope being a bunch of jerks (i would like to use as STRONGER word, but not allowed on forums) and for once take responsibility and be fair to your loyal customers !!!!!!!!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2010 3:44 AM   in reply to inlooker009

    I made an account to view all options of catalyst, but i want to cancel it now.

     

    Anyone know where i  can cancel (delete) my account for Business Catalyst, im not interrested in it anymore.

     

    Greets Dave

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2010 11:51 AM   in reply to Vector David

    If this hasn't been mentioned before: try Webyep. Easy to install, easy to use by your clients and NO monthly fees!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 27, 2010 3:41 PM   in reply to [S]up

    Do You Think This Charging Is Fair? - No, I believe that the full version for $699 should automatically include InContext.  That is a vauable part of the DW program, therefore it's a helps make the initial investment worthwhile.  And further more I don't think of Adobe as a monthly billing type of company.  They offer great software a a decent price and it could offend many customers if they decide to get into the residual income business.

     

    SEO Seattle

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2010 7:16 PM   in reply to [S]up

    Hi again, everyone!

     

    As promised, repeatable regions are now available in Surreal CMS.  After much feedback and testing, we believe that our implementation is much easier than ICE's.  All you need to do is add the repeatable class to any element inside of an editable region.  For example:

     

    <div class="editable">
         <div class="repeatable">
             <h1>Article Title</h1>
             <p class="article-date">Posted on August 20, 2010</p>
             <div class="article-body">...</div>
         </div>
    </div>

     

    The CMS intelligently knows where region groups start and end, so there's no messy HTML comments or proprietary attributes cluttering up your markup.  You don't even need to set a unique ID for each region.  This allows you to have a lot more flexibility over how you and your editors work with repeatable regions.  (It's also worth noting that repeatable regions work on virtually any HTML element, not just DIVs.)

     

    Give it a shot and let us know what you think, and thanks for giving us the opportunity to serve you!

     

     

    Best,

    Cory from Surreal CMS

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 6, 2010 11:34 PM   in reply to surrealcms

    Hi Cory, that looks very VERY nice indeed !

     

    I will test your system this week, at this moment I'm using pagelime, but that requires an ID for each editable region.

    This looks even simpler yet very very good.

     

    I certainly hope you have multiple language interface for customers , but I'll find that out while testing

     

    Cant wait to check it out,

     

    Thx again !

     

     

    David

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2010 4:27 PM   in reply to Charlesmyrick1978

    I agree that people are over reacting to this.  Simply put it's the law of supply and demand.  If you need this service, you're probably going to shell out the money for it.   
    Jon

     

    [Spam link deleted by moderator]

     
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