*BUT BUT NEWS FLASH*
downloaded trial version of Adobe lightroom 3.3 all works perfectly both 2.4 and 4.0 profiles
this seems to eliminate epson, canon, apple and now we look at the Xrite profiles and Adobe products. any other suggestions/comments out there??????
No change with LR3.3 here. Same scrum dot as previous releases with PMP created V4 profiles.
I also ran into problems with Version 4 profiles from some profiling tools along with the cyan issue and the passing the print head for the entire document..
I have developed a procedure to continue to work with snow leopard 10.6.5 it appears to work for both PSE9 and CS5 photoshop V2.4 and V4.1 profiles
1. do all your regular work as always.
2. select resize canvas uncheck relative and define canvas as the actual size of the paper you are using make background and foreground white
3. when you go to the print menus you work as always. You can also move the image around on the canvas.
4. do not save image with the canvas size unless you want to....
note: do not use the relative canvas option it does not eliminate all the cyan printing..
The printer now loads paper and spaces forward to the image and starts printing only the image. at end it just releases paper as always.
I know this is only a bypass ...... but it works...(I think. so far no caveats from my tests. hope you guys do not find any problems with it!
good luck elo
This is also a problem with my epson 3880 on 10.6.5 with CS5 - I noticed a slight cyan hue to the pure white areas last night when running some greeting cards. The back is "pure white" with a small logo at the bottom of the page... But the printer was printing ink in this pure white area. I almost threw the printer out of the window after 2 hours of trying to figure out why Photoshop was not sending "pure white" to the printer driver.
Well guess what - If I send my 16 bit Tiff to Preview and run the print job using colorsync's engine to use my v2 and v4 profiles, it WORKS JUST FINE! "Pure white" is treated as such and does not have any ink layed down. This works for my final print runs, but it is annoying for running test strips since I can't place a small image anywhere on the artboard.
So does that help isolate the issue? Adobe, can we please get some support on this? It seems the bug is pretty easy to describe: "Photoshop does not send "pure white" to epson printers when using 3rd party profiles. OR it seems that photoshop is letting the "blank canvas" area of the page be affected by the profile conversion, when it shouldn't be...
Bad practice, but an interesting test:
I wonder if we convert the images to our paper profile and then turn off all color management in the print job if photoshop will still send non-pure white to the printer.
I tried the workaround posted for printing in CS5 and still don't have any luck. In fact if I just create a new white canvas and put some text in the lower right corner, CS5 still won't send pure-white to the printer.
Hi Chris -
Please see my response below. It has been over 7 months since your post and there still is no solution to the problem - I think you guys need to re-evaluate your role in solving this, because CS5 is the only application that does this on my workstation - I understand you believe there are framework issues you need to wait on from apple but please read the following:
If I print a 16 bit tiff in apple's Preview app and use colorsync to manage profile conversion for the paper type there are no problems with these 3rd party profiles - "pure white" is treated as such and the print head skips over areas that are "pure white".
However, printing with CS5 while using any non-epson ICC profiles causes the printer to print in areas that should be "pure white".
Are you 100% confident that the "canvas/background" set up in the CS5 print window is not also affected by the color management selection? Is it possible that the white area of the canvas is being sent as a Flattened image to be converted instead of just the image on the canvas?
Thanks for your posted workaround -
I still seem to have a problem with my 3880 though. Could you help me understand if I've interpreted your meaning of "apply extra white canvas" around your image correctly -
I've got a 5x7 greeting card on a 10x7 sheet of paper. I place the 5x7 image on the right side of a 10x7 white canvas. I've got a custom paper type setup for this with the necessary margins... So 1/2 of the canvas is an image 1/2 is white, the canvas size is set to exactly match the page.
Do I need to set the canvas size to match the "printable area" exactly? and not the actual paper size? OR are you saying to apply even more white canvas and then having photoshop center the image with a negative margin - i.e. add a white border outside the edge of the actual page size.
Thanks for any tips you can provide.
For what it's worth, I noticed that printing through Preview and using colorsync to handle the paper profile conversion works flawlessly.
Thanks Jeffrey for posting -
There are still problems with CS5 printing ink in areas that should be "pure white" - everything works fine using Apple preview. Please look into this some more on your end now.
I set the canvas size to be the size of the paper..... and it worked... when you get the cyan y open the top of the printer and see how the head moves across the whole paper. then when you do the canvas size and make sure it is white I do both foreground and background then print head goes straight to the image and only prints the image.... same for PSE9 but not for LR3 that works perfectly
there are other profiles from monaco that works fine epson profiles only profiles from some supplier do this.....
cheers keep me informed..
I will be away from my printer for another week and cannot help you any more than from what I remember and wrote down...
what profiles do you use
open them up and check to see the maker... see tag "Pmtr"
Just my 2 cents:
Here we have one of the most gorgeous printers money can buy, the world's premiere image editing software, and the worlds finest personal computer in an absurd dance. Why should end users have to go through this? Why can't Apple, Epson and Adobe collaborate better?
Sorry, but I had to say this.
The same problem happened for some of my paper stocks, too. I used MacOSX (10.6.5), Photoshop CS4 (11.0.2), and Epson 3880. I also used relative colorimetric rendering, which I always use, on PSCS4.
So, I printed a 16bit blank image (just full white) in 16 bit mode on a printer driver with seven courtesy ICC profiles of Canson, Harman, Hanhnemule, Moab, and Ilford from their websites. And I figured out which profiles contributes to unexpected fine-color ghosts in paper white areas. Here are the result.
Category I. List of profiles with no problem
Category II. List of profiles resulting in fine color ghosts:
All of the profiles are of ICC spec ver. 2.x.x. However, the profiles in Category II (showing the problem) have NO media black-point tristimulus tag ('bkpt'). Is this coincidence? I don't know why. But I guess missing the 'bkpt' tag could lead to a wrong paper-color handling by ColorSync.
How does this sound?
Hi: just checked out your comments about the tag "bkpt" mine is the same all the ones that work have the tag all the ones that are missing the tag have issues with the printer and the dark surround....
you may be on to something...
I am not sure the tag "bkpt" is the culprit here.
Profiles created from ProfileMaker Pro do not have the tag "bkpt" and produce the scrum dot.
Profiles created from MonacoProfiler have the tag "bkpt" and DO NOT produce the scrum dot.
Profiles created from EFI Color Profiler DO NOT have the tag "bkpt" and DO NOT produce the scrum dot.
I am afraid it is something else that is causing this. Maybe others that have created profile from ColorMunki and i1Match can check this but I think they would show the same behavior as ProfileMaker Pro. If there is a way to edit a profile and add the tag "bkpt" maybe we could find out.
Look at this new driver update.. Will test as soon as my new cartridges arrive..
Mac OS X - PowerPC, Mac OS X - Intel
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Epson Common updater.. no difference in printing...
aperture works, lightroom works, PSE6 works(lousy colours) but PSE9 and CS5 photoshop do not work properly
except some profiles work and some do not....why??????
except some profiles work and some do not....why??????
I appears to be an interaction with Apple & Colorsync (when print through Apple's new printing path) invloving profiles created from some profile creation software. At this point I have not heard anything as to what the difference is between these profiles. Maybe when i1Profiler gets released we may hear that.
Printer drivers do not seem to be the issue here.
I have left you all.
I purchased Spyder3PrintSR.
All of my problems have now been left behind. Everything seems?? to work as it should.
My clients for giclees say the images look better than before. clearer, sharper, better colors. Yet I used specially generated profiles (xrite) from my printed targets, sent to my supplier of paper, then generated by very expensive software and hardware.
Spyder is easy to use and I can now get on with printing without worrying about having to use the bypass procedure.
note all profiles are ICC specification 2.0 (what am i missing from 2.4 and 4.0?)
all of this has been done tried version 2.4 profiles........ running completely
according to the note http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/873/cpsid_87360.html
contacted profile supplier....
I had a similar problem with my Epson 3880, using Snow Leopard 10.6.7 and Photoshop 12.0.4. I was getting a light cyan border around my prints on the white area of the paper. It wasn't effecting the print itself. After reading this thread, it appeared the problem was the ICC profile version. I had created a custom color profile using a ColorMunki from X-Rite. That's when I started having the problem. I called X-Rite and they confirmed there is a bug with the Mac OS when using version 4 of an ICC color profile. The solution was to re-create the ICC profiles, for both the monitor and the printer with the version number set to 2.
With the X-Rite software, in preferences, there are two drop down choices for version 4 (default) and version 2, one for the monitor profile and one for the printer profile, change both to V2 and re-create your profiles.
I did a test print and did not have a cyan border.
I hope this helps.
Sorry to hear it is back.
first I no longer have the problem as I only use profile 2.0 for all my work. I bought spyder print 3 from datacolor.
However consider that the problem did not exist with lightroom, aperture, CS4 or PSE6. (this may be because they handle margins differently)
I would therefore be more inclined to check what adobe is doing.....
If use epson profiles and let the printer control printing there does not appear to be a problem with the epson 2.4 generated profiles.
I just took time out and ran a test using the same xrite generated profile 2.4
result PSE6 worked as it should
PSE9 printed the cyan dark border all around the tiny one inch image.
therefore look at Adobe engine that is common to both pse9 and CS5
I filed report 9955819 with Apple. But I'm also with Elo in that it does seem to be CS5 (i.e., Adobe) related, not (purely) Apple!
The paper profiles that give me this problem are 2.4 profiles, so I guess it is profile version related. But as these problem profiles also do not contain bkpt info, this may be the cause too as people suggested earlier.
Hope either Apple or Adobe solves this soon…
Chris Cox wrote:
It's the Cocoa print path plus version 4 color profiles.
Photoshop CS5 is the first version to use the Cocoa print path.
This is an Apple bug, that they've been trying to fix for a while.
Ah, now it makes sense that CS5 suffers from the problem while some other applications do not.
Let's hope Apple solves the problem soon…
If the data point helps - I'd like to note that other cocoa apps handle these profiles just fine. (Pixelmator, Aperture, Preview) - In fact, this is my worfklow right now for hahnemuehle Fine Art Pearl in CS5 - I send a 16 bit Tiff over to preview and print from there.
Most other apps (Cocoa or not) aren't using the same color managed printing APIs as Photoshop. But Photoshop needs to use the APIs it does in order to get higher quality results.
Other apps that do use the same APIs (Lightroom for instance) see the same problem.
Apple's printing group is quite aware of the issue. (and if not, there is a large, vocal developer who will reacquiant them with it)
why do we not just see it as it is
the only two applications with a problem are PSE9 and Photoshop CS5...
it is obviously not printer drivers as it happens to all drivers from different companies
Aperture, preview, pse6, pse4, and preview works, iphoto....
finally no problem with CS4...
in all cases the 2.4 profile from xrite. no problems with 2.0 profiles form xrite or datacolor... nor with profiles used by epson printing with their own 2.4 profiles...
only one test left try to assign an xrite 2.4 to an epson controlled printer .... (will not be home for two weeks can not test)(i think I tried it but it was late at night had a problem and walked away to bed.)
the only two applications with a problem are PSE9 and Photoshop CS5...
Again, other applications using the same printer APIs have the same problem.
No, it is not in the printer driver per-se, it is in the color profiles that the printer driver specifies plus a bug in ColorSync.
Only printers that specify an ICC version 4 profile will hit the ColorSync bug.
Only applications that use the more recent printing APIs will hit the ColorSync bug.
Please read the rest of the topic and the history of troubleshooting that has already been done.
But, the other worm in this mess is that V4 profiles created with MonacoProfiler, i1Profiler, EFI Color Profiler Suite and maybe others have never had this problem of printing gray in paper white areas.
Well after a long wait and some extra information exchange, Apple (finally) came back to me with their verdict about this problem: it's not them, it's Adobe that is at fault here.
Interestingly, they also advised me of the fact that Adobe does have a fix for the problem but that as the problem is (also) profile version related, they will not be putting it into CS5 and that I'll have to wait for CS6 to get this fixed. Go figure…
Looks like you're both pointing to each other here
As it seemed to work well in a previous version of the OS and that after an OS update it stopped working, it seems more likely the bug is with Apple than with Adobe. However, how come Apple explicitly tells me that you already have a fix for it (in CS6)??? I guess Adobe and Apple need to work this out. Is there anything I can do further? As they blame you, Apple has closed my bug report…
Here we go with the Apple and Adobe blame games again. So reminiscent of the Double Profiling issue when it was a fault of the printer drivers all along.
See post #72.
Instead of Adobe blaming Apple and Apple blaming Adobe why not look at why some Version 4 profiles from some software don't have this problem?
>> However, how come Apple explicitly tells me that you already have a fix for it (in CS6)???
I have no idea. Maybe they confused it with other printing issues? Or maybe they just never admit to problems until after they ship a fix for it.
We've already done what we can.