I have installed 7.03 update. Every couple of days, I check for updates -- hoping a fix will be included.
I've never heard of application hang. ID would issue "Crash Report" asking me to send to Adobe, so I figured it knew what it was talking about and had crashed. Since ID was reinstalled, crash issue hasn't returned -- just failure to save.
So, you don't use font management software. How do you manage that? How many fonts do you use?
So, you don't use font management software. How do you manage that? How many fonts do you use?
Well, it's just me so I don't need to coordinate a lot of fonts. I currently have 1087 fonts listed in the fonts folder (which obviously includes multiple weights and styles for many families, not that many distinct faces). When I need another font, I install it manually, delete it manually when not needed. I should probably dump half of wht's curently installed, but a lot of them are for legacy files that I open once a year or so.
My favorite prepress tech got me into that -- he said he gave up on font managers years ago as they were totally unreliable, especially auto-activation. His method was to drag a folder with the client's job fonts into the system fonts folder while the job was active, then out again when done.
One of the issues for the prepress tech, even with modern managers, was that there was no real way to control exactly which Helvetica or Frutiger was going to open when 25 different clients used the same fonts, but potentially different versions, unless you hid all the ones you didn't want from the manager, and then there was no point in using it since you'd have to go through hiding and making available a differnt set of fonts for each job, so you might as well do it manually.
For an idividual who works with just their own set, that's maybe not an issue, but I can't say I miss having a manager.
We had several different versions of Suitcase Fusion, depending on which version was being sold when a computer was installed. And each designer seemed to have different versions of same font which created problems when the work station opening the file was different from previously used work station. With Universal Type software, master set of fonts is stored on the server. When I purchase and install a new font, UTS (Universal Type Server) pushes it to every work station. So, everyone has same fonts all the time. It's been a pain at the beginning, because every time a file is opened for the first time, UTC (Universal Type Client) makes us select the font. But as time goes by, UTC connects the font to the file and the file looks the same regardless of work station used.
Thanks to Peter for bringing this to my attention.
I'd like to help, but this is going to be a tough one, and will probably require someone who is consistently experiencing the problem working with me through a process of eliminating variables (such as use of a font management system) then workfing for a while to see if the change prevents the problem from occuring. If someone is prepared to work with me on such a project, please contact me through a private message.
Thank you, Matthew.
For those who are following this and may not be aware of who he is, Matthew is a member of the InDesign team. It was through his similar efforts that problems with PDF export hangs were identified and resolved. I hope at least one of you, Lonzo in particular since he seems to be having repeatable problems, is able to work with Matthew.
I have a mac OS X
is that all the info you need re. my operating system?
sorry i don't know if i use font manager... the fonts are just there... if i would have to do anything in particular to use font manager i guess i don't.
thanks for raising the issue with adobe i hope they can get to the bottom of it.
glad that you are going to work with the guy from Indesign. hopefully we can get this resolved... it is soooo frustrating. i managed to get my work in yesterday by printing to PDF , and then saving that...
tomorrow i will try the resetting... today i'm having some recovery time.
hope we get this resolved soon.
Do you work for a company, or is it just you and your personal computer? if the former, you may indeed have a font manager, if the latter it's less likely (and you would probably know).
Did you get your file recovered again?
it's just me and my on laptop..
i'm doing a MA right now so my work is important though...
i haven't had the guts to try to close it down yet... i will do it tomorrow. I'd been up working on a competition submission through the last two nights as well as days so i'm super shattered... and yes the it was the last thing i needed.
will update u on progress tomorrow. thanks or all your help and interest.
I followed your instructions again and managed to re-open the file as a imdl and re-save !! hurraah!
thanks for your support. I really hope we can get to the bottom of this as it's such a stress when you have so much work at stake to lose.
i'll follow the progress made.
Many thanks again.
Just to add to this thread - more data for you...
I just had this issue. In addition to the inability to save, I noticed three other elements:
Things seem fine now. No lasting issues. Save/Save-As and Undo all work.
(Mac OS (fully updated), CS5 (ditto), and using FontExplorer Pro. No errors reported in the system log from ID at the time I experienced this problem, though there are lots of complaints from AI... I hope this might help.
For anyone who is experiencing this issue with regular frequency, I'd like to ask if you can try the following.
1) Choose Window > Output > Preflight.
2) Uncheck the On checkbox.
3) Work in this application state for as long as you can manage, and see if the issue returns.
Please alert us to your results.
Here's what I have so far in my attempts to identify a root cause for this so we can work towards a resolution.
Working with a particular user directly, I sent a script written to save any open files and had them try to run it while in this state. The script returned the error, "Cannot save document because there are open transactions on the database." The database is referring to the InDesign document, and the open transaction is some change that was started, but for some reason failed to complete. So the application is still waiting for something to complete before it will alow certain actions, like a save command.
That still leaves me looking for the trigger that starts, but fails to complete some change to the document, which is a needle in a haystack still.
Things that I'd like to learn more include:
* What is your OS version? So far, all seem to be 10.6.6, no Windows users. If anyone is on something other than 10.6.6, please let me know.
* Status of background tasks. When you're in this state, check Window > Utilities > Background Tasks and see if anything is reported there (I'm doubtful).
* Disablement of Preflight (as mentioned in my previous post).
* Any other side effects that you notice while in this state, such as the X,Y position behavior noted above.
* When in this state, can you create a new document and save it.
Thanks for your help, and patience.
"Immediate" is the default, so it would be interesting to see if changing this to "Never" would prevent the issue from returning. If someone can try that as a test, and let us know if you reach some period of time that leads you to suspect it makes a difference, that would be appreciated.
Change this by choosing InDesign > Preferences > Interface > Options > Live Screen Drawing = Never.
This is happening to me as well.
Turning off Preflight has helped so far - though I've done 15 minutes of testing.
Thanks to Matthew for jumping on this and keeping the forum updated.
Thanks to Peter for alerting Matthew.
Here's hoping for a speedy solution. These things shake ones confidence in the 'Suite. I, for one, never want that to happen...
If it's all right with Matthew, I think it would be helpful, too, if someone were to try "Delayed" for Live Screen Drawing. That's the behavior you're used to from CS4 where holding for a moment gives you the live preview, and it seems to alleviate a lot of screen drawing issues like jerkiness and unpredictable movement for many users, like me.
By the number of posts on this problem, I would think Adobe would offer a fix. I am currently putting together 60 years worth of my poetry and I have this problem constantly! My document is in different InD sections and when I open one file, I can save changes for a while before the save gets grayed out. Sometimes the Save As is still available; sometimes not. If it is, I merlely save as with the same file name! If it ain't I just quit InD and tell it not to bother to save changes. But before I do that I print out the page I've made changes on so I know what changes I made. When I reopen the section file, here we go again. I can save for a while until I have to go through the whole printing, quitting, reopening again! I am so disgusted. I used Pagemaker since it came on 12 FLOPPY DISKS and never had a problem of any kind. I work on a MacbookPro and, in addition to the above problem, I find InDesign too touchy with teh mouse pad. If I just happen to touch it in the wrong place, it will send the spread or page right, left, up or down or even take me to another page! I'm not about to start exporting and changing anything; I will continue to cope as best I can and cuss out Adobe. BTW, I use Safari to browse the Net. Saw one post that said the browser used may affect performance of InDesign. True?
Did you notice the posts from Matthew Laun? He IS working on a fix, but until the problem can be identified and and reliably and consistently reproduced it's not possible to issue a patch.
In the meantime, have you exported all of these files to .idml and started working with those? How about any of the other suggestions earlier in the thread? If your files are Pagemaker files converted to ID, it's particularly important that you run them through .idml to clean them up.
Promising development. I provided a debug build to one of the users encountering this issue and it has reported back an assert that I believe is associated with the root cause of the failure. The assert includes the name of the C++ file and line of code, so I'm hopeful an engineer examining that code can see a defect, or hypothesize one.
The code in question has to do with tabbed document windows, so one thing that I'd like to suggest is that users disable the default option of using tabbed documents, and work with floating document windows, and see if you can reproduce the failure in that state. To disable this option:
InDesign > Preferences > Interface > disable "Open Documents as Tabs".
Sorry this has taken so long to get some progress on, but many thanks to Nancy at Sir Speedy for doing some great detective work!!
Matthew, I'm so grateful you all are working on a fix. I ran into this problem today and the export remedy worked (whew!!). However, when I restared InDesign and tried to make a new document, all of my preferences and document presets disappeared and I'm back to square one (this after defining presets for all the ad sizes I work with for the publication I design). This is a huge bummer...and I wonder if it will happen again if I have to go through the export to IDML again?? Anyone else had this happen? Are they connected?
If this has already been addressed, my apologies. I scanned both thread pages and didn't see it but I'm a wee bit frantic about this at the moment.
Loss of presets would be associted with repalcing the preferences, but not, as far as I know, with exporting a file. You might want to look at Replace Your Preferences for some advice on what and how you should back up to recover these types of things if you need to do it in the future.
I too have had the same "unable to save or save as" problem. Ive read this whole forum, and turned off both the open windows as tab preference, and the preflight preference, it worked for a while, but now Im still having the same problem. I dont use font management software, Im on a mac osx 10.5.8.
Have there been any further developments with this bug?
I was never doing anything but entering new text or editing text. It seems
to have a mind of its own and I must quit the program and then restart it.
Message box says cannot save changes. When I reopen the file, most times the
changes are not there, but for some unknown reason, sometimes they are! It's
a pain in the neck.
I came upon this thread because we have a designer in our studio who keep encountering this problem on her machine. She is running an iMac C2D 2.0Ghz with 4GB of ram. Adobe CS5 Design Standard suite. InDesign has been updated to 7.0.4 and her system is 10.6.7.
We are using only FontBook for font management.
I see that the thread has been marked as answered. But it appears there still is no official answer. Can we assume that this means a patch for IDCS5 is coming to address this?
Matthew, if you are still looking for someone to provide data from this particular issue, please let me know and I will be happy to provide what I can if the problem occurs again.
The one oddity that she mentioned was that when the problem happened, and she was working on a document, when she tried to drag a text field, her pointer would turn into a symbol of a circle with a line through it.
Are you still recommending we turn off tabbed windows and preflight?
I think we have enough data at this point. The challenge I'm facing is getting the shared technology team to apply resources to investigate this while they are also focusing on implementing change for the next major release. I'm afraid attempts to identify the actual factor that introduces this with regards to user steps or settings, have failed, so I have no suggestions right now on how to avoid this. Hopefully the engineering investigation into the debugging data I got from one of the customers on this thread, will guide us to a solution, as well as temporary ways to avoid it.
Hi Matthew, thanks for that update. Now I am unable to save at all, so I have to constantly export to imdl then reopen and resave. Its very annoying. I am wondering if adobe will give me a refund as I spent a good chunk of money on this software, and as far as I can see, it is really not performing. Would I talk to customer service? I imagine I would need someone technical like yourself to approve this to customer service....
Hi again Matthew, I have a better idea, can I get InDesign CS4 instead? That wont have the bug Im assuming. Im now having other problems with changes not taking effect when I use certain tools, the link palette is completely empty, the text wrap palette changes dont work...
Ok, apparently there are no previous versions of Indesign available now, which I find hard to believe. I have to say, adobe customer support really sucks. Basically I have to pay 39 dollars in order to get technical support for something we already know is unfixable, so that i can then get a refund on a product that is faulty, which adobe probably wont honor because it is more than 30 days since i bought this software. completely unacceptable.
Mezmiranda11, I understand your frustration. I'm the ID user running the debug
software and continue to experience this issue. I've learned to become more
aware and never assume ID will save. I used to save every 5 or 10 minutes. Now,
I move something, insert something, type something, whatever -- and save. As
soon as I press "Command Save" I observe the "File" tab. If the word "File"
flashes to white within a blue box momentarily, my file saved successfully. If
it doesn't flash to white, I'll pull down the tab and see "Save" and "Save As"
are gray; quit and restart. As long as I pay attention and observe ID save
frequently, I'm not at risk of losing my work. It takes a split second to save
and I don't have the stress of working for hours not knowing at what point ID
Occasionally, I get caught up in my work and forget to watch. Then, if I can't
save, I export IDML file, quit, restart and open IDML file. It works every time.
I'm hopeful Adobe will fix the issue. Back in April, debug software presented
info that pointed toward tabbed documents as problem area. Since then, I've only
worked with floating document windows and still have the issue. I know nothing
about programming code, but am assuming this one's been difficult to pin down.
One other thing I watch that I had never noticed until Matt pointed it out. At
the top of my document window is my file name with ID logo immediately to the
left. When my file has been edited and needs to be saved, the logo will be light
pink. As soon as I successfully save, the logo turns solid pink. So, I watch for
"File" to flash and for the logo to turn solid pink, then keep working.
Hang in there. Hopefully, a fix is on the way.
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