Has anyone else come across similar issues since last summer?
Right now I have a job requiring me to produce 9 long form 1080i 29.97 Blu-Ray discs from ProRes 1080i 29.97 QuickTime media. I've gone through great lengths to troubleshoot the workflow (documented in other threads I've posted on). Regardless, now I'm at the point where I've finalized a number of these discs, creating ISO files, burning them to BD-R via Disc Utility (Mac OS X) and all I've gotten are BD-Rs that stutter on playback.
I haven't gotten a 1080i BD-R to playback smoothly once throughout the whole disc. I am happy to provide more details on what I'm producing to try and troubleshoot further, but just curious if anyone has run into this problem persistently with Encore CS 5?
I'm using Optical Quantum 4 x BD-R media (http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/optical-quantum-bd-r-25gb-4x- white-inkjet-hub-printable-blu-ray-recordable-single-layer-media-oqvbd r04wip-h-10-10pk)
I'm also burning on a Pioneer BDR-205, which has been a great burner for me so far. It doesn't seem to matter if I burn at 10x or 2x, I get the same results. I just purchased VERBATIM BD-Rs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/750523-REG/Verbatim_97331_BD_R_2 5GB_2x_LTH.html). So I'll give those a try when they arrive on Wednesday.
Has anyone had issues with Optical Quantum brand BD-R media? I've successfully made many 1080p 23.98 Blu-Rays. Just not long form 1080i 29.97.
Just thinking about this issue a little more tonight while I wait for my new VERBATIM BD-R LTHs to arrive in the mail.
When I go to build an ISO file from a Blu-Ray project, Encore CS5 tells me this given project which has 2 menus and 103 minutes of 1080i 29.97 media in it lines up at 21.83 GB. But when the ISO file is finally complete the total file size, according to the Mac OS X Finder, is only 17.34 GB. I've never really noticed this before when going to create an ISO file.
Could there be something inherently wrong with the ISO file build that Encore CS5 is creating? It seems like the transcoded file is fine (as it plays down smoothly in the preview window), and I haven't had problems with my Optical Quantum BD-Rs in the past. But this file size discrepancy seems strange. Has anybody run into something similar?
Just to add to my previous post, I burned two separate ISO files to BD-R discs that I
played back on my Pioneer BDR-205 with VLC player on my Mac. Both had problems with playback stuttering. The entire disc had an issue from what I could tell.
Then I tested the disc on a Pansonic DMP-BD10A Blu-Ray player. These BD-Rs (Optical Quantum brand discs) don't play at all -- as in the player won't read them and the disc gets spit back out. Now I have created 1080p 23.98 BD-Rs with the same brand of media as of several weeks ago and played them on the DMP-BD10A without any issues. Granted, they also had no menus (autoplay with chapters, not that it should really make any big difference).
But as of right now I can't get anything to work burning from these 1080i 29.97 ISO files. I will test new VERBATIM LTH BD-Rs tonight and report back with new results. I am desperately hoping this will solve the problem.
1: what settings are you using to output? Video and audio bit rate would be good to know.
2: this is going to sound lame: maybe you have a bad batch of discs. Dig to the bottom of the spindle or try another separate spindle. This happened to me recently for a set of DVDs.
I'm going out with H.264 BluRay encoded files @ 22mbps CBR 1080i 29.97 upper field order / PCM 48khz 16bit audio. It is possible this batch of BD-Rs are all coasters. I will try my new VERBATIM LTH discs tonight and let you know what I find.
So I've tried burning one of my ISO files to a new brand of BD media - Verbatim LTH stock. The result is exactly the same, which means there is either something wrong with the transcoded media, or something wrong with the build of the ISO file itself.
I must say, I'm at the end of my rope on this one. I've transcoded and re-transcoded this media again and again but to no avail. I don't know what settings I can use that won't give me the result I'm getting. As I've written before, everything in the preview window of Encore CS5 is totally fine. Static menus with chapters, and the video plays back smoothly.
ISO file builds without any errors.
Burn the ISO to BD-R media @ 2x (burned and verified without issues).
But when I play back the disc after it's been burned via Disk Utility on Mac OS X (10.5.8), I get these stuttering results. This is a job I must complete, but how can I if Encore is giving me these results? Is there any tech support I can call at Adobe that might be able to help? Any help at all would be terrific -- I'm really desperate at this point.
As a last ditch effort, I'm re-transcoding this project to MPEG-2 1080i 29.97 upper field, 22mbps target 2-pass VBR with PCM 48khz 16bit audio. I'll let that run overnight and burn the BD-R tomorrow to see if I have better results.
I much prefer H.264 for Blu-Ray, as I think it's a much better quality, but if I can get an MPEG-2 to work I would take it. Any other suggestions are definitely welcome.
Consider toning down the audio to AC3 192 Kbps or something similar. Maybe the combined audio/video bit-rate is too much for the media/player to handle.
Just a thought...
Best of luck; we're rooting for ya!
1. Did the Verbatim discs at least load in the Panny player without being spit out?
2. Could you describe the stuttering in more detail, please? Is it a problem with subjects in the frame stuttering during motion and panning shots, or is it more of a condition where a lot of frames are dropped on playback but the frames that do play are clean with no motion issues?
3. Have you tried to update your burner's firmware?
4. When you re-transcoded your assets, did you Revert to Original first?
5. Until this is solved, you should work with just a short length of your program. That way each testing run will only take a fraction of the time as the whole program would. The caveat with doing that is that I've heard of cases where the issue exists for long programs but not for shorter programs. So even if you succeed with a short test, you end up with a nasty surprise when the long program is burned.
6. You should get a BD-RE disc or 2. No more coasters.
My answers in bold below:
1. Did the Verbatim discs at least load in the Panny player without being spit out? The Verbatim LTH disc got kicked out of the Panasonic player also. Although this could be the result of the player needing a firmware upgrade since the LTH discs are newer.
2. Could you describe the stuttering in more detail, please? Is it a problem with subjects in the frame stuttering during motion and panning shots, or is it more of a condition where a lot of frames are dropped on playback but the frames that do play are clean with no motion issues? The disc begins playing (in VLC player) without issue for about 20 seconds. Then it starts to skip. Then it gets worse -- dropping lots of frames. Then every now and then the image will break apart completely and pixelate across the whole image. It eventually comes back together but continues skipping/dropping frames throughout playback consistently. It never gets back to playing smoothly, even if I change chapters.
3. Have you tried to update your burner's firmware? I'm running firmware version 1.09 for the Pioneer BDR-205, which seems to be the latest according to Pioneer's web site. Has anyone heard different?
4. When you re-transcoded your assets, did you Revert to Original first? I always REVERT TO ORIGINAL before re-transcoding. I actually can't re-transcode within Encore unless I do that.
5. Until this is solved, you should work with just a short length of your program. That way each testing run will only take a fraction of the time as the whole program would. The caveat with doing that is that I've heard of cases where the issue exists for long programs but not for shorter programs. So even if you succeed with a short test, you end up with a nasty surprise when the long program is burned. Part of the reason I have been continuing to test the long show is just for that reason. I authored a 10 min 1080i 29.97 BD-R about a month ago with no issues. I only started having this issue with long form stuff on this project.
6. You should get a BD-RE disc or 2. No more coasters. You are 100% right. I will purchase a couple of BD-REs. I've wasted too many BD-Rs at this point.
Thank you guys for all your time and help with this. I'll let you know if the MPEG-2 burn works tonight.
I know of all kinds of tools for Windows to eliminate the burner/blank media combinations from the production pipeline, but I don't know of any tools for the Mac. Specifically, you'd need a daemon-type tool that would function as a virtual Blu-ray reader. It would allow you to mount the disc image file in the virtual BD reader, and VLC could play the image as if it were a real disc. So in one operation you eliminate the burner (because nothing got burned to disc) and the blank media (same reason) as possible culprits. That leaves the actual creation of the disc image in En as the last troubleshooting link.
That would actually be incredibly helpful if you gave me some of your tools for Windows. I have a PC that I can copy the ISO to for testing in this case. It would also help me verify if the ISO build is in fact 100% the culprit. In the mean time I've also got a hold of a BD-RE for further testing.
So there is some good news to report tonight. I re-created an ISO from a project that I had re-transcoded to MPEG-2 (2-pass VBR 22mbps) instead of H.264 Blu-Ray. I burned this ISO file to a Sony BD-RE piece of stock.
Played this down in VLC player on my Mac and all appears well with the disc. I spot checked several sections (several minutes at a time) and no dropped frames or drop outs. Smooth playback throughout.
I'm going to burn this same ISO to one of my Optical Quantum BD-Rs tonight and try that tomorrow to see how it fares.
Makes a very strong case for problematic transcodes to H.264 in AME CS5. If that is really the case, I wonder what is causing it? I will continue to test, as it's something I'd ultimately like to report in detail to Adobe.
Anyone out there on the forums experience something similar to this? I can't believe that others out there have not had similar issues making 1080i H.264 long form Blu-Rays in Encore CS5 if that's really what is going on here, regardless of the burner or BD-R stock.
I would like to confirm, also, that this disc plays perfectly in my Panasonic player as well. Looks like I'll be transcoding all 1080i 29.97 long form discs to MPEG-2 from now on in stead of H.264 for Blu-Ray. Thank you everybody for your help and suggestions.