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Audition CS 5.5 and the future of Audition

Apr 14, 2011 12:18 PM

  Latest reply: therealdobro, May 15, 2012 10:48 AM
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    Apr 25, 2011 2:43 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin,

     

    Many thanks!

    Steve

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Oct 26, 2006
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    Apr 25, 2011 3:01 PM   in reply to _durin_

    _durin_ wrote:

    4. The only problems you should run into when using Audition 3 and CS 5.5 simultaneously would be if both apps were attempting to access the same ASIO device.  Audition 3 allows you to run multiple instances of the application, but CS 5.5 does not.  You can, however, open multiple sessions at once so this should be less of a concern.

     

    I should point out that I haven't tried this directly with the rest of the CS, but the usual situation with ASIO and more than one app running is that it is only a problem if the apps are trying to access the same ASIO streams on a device - having two apps addressing the same card generally works fine, as long as the sample rate is the same. The no-no is trying to address two sound devices with ASIO - that it can't manage at all. So for instance with my E-Mu 1820m, it's only the ASIO streams that are actually allocated and in use that you can't use with another app.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 25, 2011 4:52 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    Hi SteveG,

     

    Thanks.  Also, one thing that I don't think I made clear in my questions - perhaps either you or Durin or anyone else who knows can answer.

     

    When I was talking about workflow between AA 3 and 5.5, what I had in mind was that one probably would close one of the AA's before doing some work (one example is the AA 3 Scientific Filter).  Since the Effects Rack has been replaced, I thought that maybe VST-based effects, depending on when and where they are executed, might have unintended side-effects if one goes back and forth between versions.  Of course, I don't know the answer.  But, I thought it would be a good idea to the answer in advance.

     

    Steve

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 26, 2011 2:20 AM   in reply to Steve C2

    They shouldn't be any interaction at all between two versions of Audition running at the same time - and if I get a chance later on I'll check that this is indeed the case. As long as the two different versions of AA don't try to access the same ASIO streams, they should both run fine simultaneously, assuming your audio device can cope with that. Dunno what that would do to your processor load though - and there would be no guarantee of any sort of a decent performance!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 11:06 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Sigh.

    As a developer myself, I understand that seemingly simple features can be very complex under the hood - especially if we've done our job as UX designers - but there was such a clamor for clip grouping here that it's hard to understand why it didn't make the cut.  That and the lack of control surface support scotches my upgrade plans. 

     

    Durin, the gist of a lot of your posts on this thread is that we should regard this release as a preview or a taste of things to come.  Without asking you to commit, can you give us some idea of when an interim *feature* (vs bug fix) release might be expected?  A year or so from now?  Just wondering how long I have to keep my struggling PC running...can't run AA3 under VMWare on the Mac because unfortunately I have a Firewire audio interface.

     

    Anyway, I appreciate all the thought and creativity that went into this first Mac release and hope there will be a future release that works for my sort of workflow.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 11:43 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Thanks, Durin.  Guess I already made my votes clear on features for release 6.

    And now the wait begins.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 11:50 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Dear Durin,

     

    though you didn't comment on this my reply, I still keep hoping that it will be taken into account. I think the number of Audition users that I'm talking about in my message cannot be ignored by Adobe.

     

    Thank you,

    Alex.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 26, 2011 12:06 PM   in reply to Alex Radzishevsky

    Alex Radzishevsky wrote:

    I think the number of Audition users that I'm talking about in my message cannot be ignored by Adobe.

     

     

    How many is that?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 12:16 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    I didn't count everyone of them personally yet, but according to my experience (working as audio engineer and developer in voice communication industry) - they are thousands. You can visit any company that deal with voice communication, audio sw/hw validation, etc. and you can see most of the engineers using Audition or its predecessors.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 1:01 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Durin,

     

    I agree that adding this feature may help Adobe to better understand its customers and their needs.

     

    You can consider my above message about "silent army of users" as written report.

     

    The users I'm talking about are using Audition in audio development and audio validation process.If it can help, here is a brief list of features that are used by them on a daily basis (including myself, each and every day): spectrogram view, spectral analysis, statistics, scientific filters (high pass, band pass, low pass with configureable filter type, cutoffs and order), tones generation (especially with different start/end points, for example to generate sweep tones), noise generation (BTW, could be extended, I think), sample rate/bit resolution/channels conversion, mixing, subtraction, sample-precise editing, batch processing (can be definitely improved by adding scripting). All these functions make Audition absolutely not replaceble by any other tool. MatLAB and Audition - is the ultimate tool chain.

     

    If you say that scientific filters and tone generation are not available in 5.5 - it means that I personally will not be able to use it. The same with many of those who I'm telling you about.

     

    I hope you got my point, and I hope it will help you to make your product only better.

     

    Alex.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 26, 2011 4:17 PM   in reply to _durin_

    _durin_ wrote:


    And of course, it won't work on systems that are detached from the internet. 

     

    Which is, of course, most of the serious DAW users.

     

    I'm still not convinced about some of these numbers of users in areas that aren't generally considered to be major markets. Since Adobe control all the sales of Audition directly, they must surely have some sort of an idea as to where they've been sold...

     

    If we assume for a moment that the proportions of users who frequent forums (and we are talking long-term here) represent anything even vaguely like the usage spread, then I'd say that whilst game developers and people who work in the comms industry certainly show up, they certainly weren't anything like a major group. From what we see, it's radio users, podcasters and individual users doing restoration work and sometimes multitrack audio recording who form the backbone of users. One hidden group that we do know about (and they keep quiet about this deliberately, because it's embarassing to them for some strange reason) are the people using Audition for Mastering purposes - it gets used quite a lot for that, one way or another.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 7:53 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    Ha! That's because part of the mystique of being a mastering engineer is in having a ton of expensive, specialized gear that the hoi polloi either don't know about or can't afford, and Audition doesn't fall into that category - it's too affordable. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2011 8:58 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin,

     

    My guess, from recent news is that If you do not collect the lattitude and longitude of the pc or, if you do, refrain from storing it in an unencrypted file, you might not get complaints.  JK.

     

    Steve

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Oct 26, 2006
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    Apr 27, 2011 1:41 AM   in reply to therealdobro

    therealdobro wrote:

     

    Ha! That's because part of the mystique of being a mastering engineer is in having a ton of expensive, specialized gear that the hoi polloi either don't know about or can't afford, and Audition doesn't fall into that category - it's too affordable. 

     

    That's certainly one reason. The other one they mutter about is that it doesn't seem right to use an app for mastering that had its origins in shareware. The one thing that they will admit though is that if you are doing sample rate conversions, Audition is as good as it gets. Especially if you are doing a lot of them, as in sample library creation, because you can batch them. Or at least you could - I haven't tried this on the new version. But that does remind me of something else that hasn't been mentioned up to now - there's a new dither option now as well. More details later, unless Durin gets there first...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2011 7:21 PM   in reply to _durin_

    This was not a previous feature, but I would love to see a way to use one track as the source for the launching of effects on another track. More to the point, being able to do things like gated reverbs (for killer drums), or distortion effects on a guitar triggered by a snare... Just a thought.

    Similar (but entirely different ) I would like to see the ability to add expressions like in Aftere Effects. This way, if the above feature was not made available I could write an expression to do it... If amplitude == such and such level raise input level to such and such for such and such amount of time.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2011 8:12 PM   in reply to MYX

    I think some VST effects can do that already.  I'm pretty sure that Drumagog can gate or duck other tracks when setup right on both tracks but it would be a nice built in feature for audition...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 29, 2011 8:30 PM   in reply to RonNovy

    I've been interested in ducking for a while, but too slow to pick it up.  Good thing, if Audition can't do it anyway.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2011 8:41 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Without midi and rewire, Audition loses much of its appeal. I don't understand what problems you had with it in 3 because I use 3 all the time with Reason rewired in to the multitracker and midi VSTis sequenced into the mix. Sometimes it was a little buggy and would crash and lose all its VSTs but they came back after a reboot. I was really looking forward to the new Audition and now the 30 day trial won't even be on my machine 24 hours because I can't use it without midi or rewire.Having help and the manual only available online is useless, too. My production machine isn't networked and is a pure music composition DAW.

     

    Very disappointing. Audition 3 was a very serviceable, easy to use multitasking software that I did my recording, mixing and mastering in. I'll keep using 3 until something better comes along.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2011 9:13 PM   in reply to wavecapsule

    Complaining about the same thing in 5 threads does make it clear that you're not satisfied, wavecapsule.  And Durin has already made it clear that staying with AA3 will be what some are going to prefer, but they're all ears to hear your reasons why.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2011 4:47 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hello Durin,

     

    Thank you for your involvement with the forum.

     

    I have been using Audition since CE2K.

     

    I can see from the various comments that the move to CS5.5 fits people less or more according to their perspective.

    I pre-ordered the new version immediately, but as yet haven't actually received it, so my comments are based on what has been presented here.

     

    I use 2X other software editors, Pyramix, and Protools.

    Primarily for music production.

    So, in spite of the inconvenience, it is possible for me to shift between these and Audition 3, if there any required missing features in CS5.5.

    Like some of the others here, I am slowly moving towards incorporating Video editing and production into my studio.

     

    So for me, the positive aspects of this change are ....

     

    OMF Import and Export.

    Integration with Premiere.

    Overall RMS level average per track.

     

    What I miss ,..

    Generate Silence.

    I use this as a quick and simple method to clean and create correct spacing between CD Tracks.

    Also, if Premiere Elements integrated with Audition, it would be a good way to test the waters before extending to the cost of Premiere Pro.

    Although I don't use midi a lot, I enjoyed the implementation of it in Audition, and was looking forward to the development of any deficiencies.

     

    All the best,

    Onward and upwards.

     

     

    Bye for now,

    aomahana.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2011 5:39 PM   in reply to aomahana

    aomahana wrote:


    What I miss ,..

    Generate Silence.

     

    Edit > Insert Silence... will achieve you the same results.   Please check it out when you get your hands on the release.

     

    aomahana wrote:

     

    ...

     

    I use 2X other software editors, Pyramix, and Protools.


    ...

     

    So for me, the positive aspects of this change are ....

     

    OMF Import and Export.


    ...

     

    Please let us know how the OMF exchange works with Pyramix.   We've done intensive in-house testing on sending OMFs to/from Pro Tools, but not as much with Pyramix.  I spoke to one of the engineers at Merging while at AES this past fall about OMF interchange with Pyramix, so feel free to ask your support representative at Merging to also do some in-house testing with interchange with Audition.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2011 3:53 PM   in reply to David Polk

    It was with great expectations that my studio was looking forward to up-grading to Audition CS 5.5.  But I have the same issue as my Chicago colleague on the not retaining clip grouping (an editing issues).  You are Adobe, you just about invented the concept of grouping in the graphic world!  I can't tell you how many times that I have used the clip grouping feature to "lock down" some very complex edits.  But,  an even bigger issue is having no control surface support (production/work flow) in AA CS 5.5.  I work in a studio where the DAW is controlled by an   Alpha Track transport  from the booth and all edits and adjustments are from a control room.  This allows talent to start/stop recording their own tracks and allows the engineer to focus on any adjustments.  This process has had a very positive impact on our production work flow and has saved us time and money. Because of our dependence on this transport control strategy we cannot up-grade to 5.5 at this time.  As an aside, I spoke to Frontier Designs, the OEM of Alpha Track, and they had had no contact with Adobe and were finding out about CS 5.5 along with the rest of us.  Don't you guys cooperate with the hardware community as part of your beta program?  Sorry for a bit of a rant on this, but I'm just disappointed that my studio can't have access to all of the great features that you described in CS 5.5 because of AA 3.0 features that were not included in your build for CS 5.5.  I continue to be a loyal Adobe supporter but no longer a happy one.

     

    Jim L

    Chicago

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2011 4:09 PM   in reply to Quash45

    Those are exactly my two issues.  No clip grouping = more mistakes and a great deal more tedium; no control surface support = impossible to use AA in my studio setting.  I am my own engineer, and I cannot perform from behind my desk.  Having the Tranzport at my fingertips makes it all possible.

     

    Durin, need any more votes? 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2011 4:39 PM   in reply to _durin_

    RED ROVER - yes, I still have one!!!  And now I know what to do with it. 

     

    Thanks, again, Durin - sorry if this all seems very glass-half-full sometimes.  I guess the good side is that so many of us feel passionate enough about AA to actually be up in arms over the details.  A lesser product would be greeted with yawns or deafening silence.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2011 7:59 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Durin,

     

    Thanks for taking my flack on these 2 important issues (clip grouping and control surfaces).  Is there any way that I could get involved in a CS 6.0 beta?  Finally, (this is a bit self-serving as I am a Frontier customer) who should hardware vendor like Frontier speak (contact) to for plug in specifications for CS 6.0?  I'm sure that other forum participants have their favorate control surface vendor and probably have the same question and want to make sure that their vendors are in the 6.0 beta loop.

     

    As soon as my 2 items are contained in CS 6.0 I will be a happy camper and first in line for the new AA.

     

    Regards,

     

    Jim  L'Allier

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 6, 2011 1:36 AM   in reply to _durin_

    _durin_ wrote:


    Thanks again for the frank and straightforward feedback.  While the occasional insults are easy to dismiss in a relatively anonymous online forum, it's awesome that there's such passion for what we've been doing and what's to come.  And if I need a little pick-me-up, I can just head over to Twitter where the comments have been very positive.

     

    Having a vocal (but sometimes quite rude) user base forces good companies to evolve representatives that are pretty much the best of their breed. Rather than pasting boilerplate corporatese "we value your input"-type of answers, they're more inclined to post substantive, respectful posts that tell some hard truths. I've seen this done successfully in the World of Warcraft forums, and it can create an unprecedented level of brand loyalty when done right.

     

    In my book, Adobe is now firmly in this column, mostly thanks to the levelheadedness of the Audition team. Keep up the good work, guys.

     

    Twitter version: @Adobe omg u guys total pros xxoo #winning #bff #auditionrox

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 14, 2011 8:41 AM   in reply to TeetowSBZ

    Agreed. I've definitely added some frustration expressing posts, especially after the difficulty I faced in getting my money back for this upgrade after experiencing it's utter redundancy in my workflow. But Durin seems to make a great effort to at least acknowledge the specific concerns the community brings up - which is breathe of fresh air compared to the phone reps.

     

    So, for the record, here's a quick list of the MUST-HAVES for Audition to continue to be the DAW I use as a recording studio engineer and music creator:

    1. Group Clips
    2. Control Surfaces
    3. Metronome
    4. Looping with time stretch / key change
    5. Midi VSTi support (though I could probably at least get by without this one)

     

    Aside from Midi VSTi support, that list of features is crucial for me to be able to utilize the software. Of course, greater file support would make the transition more bearable too. In general, I made use of many of the features of 3.0, and I believe restoring those features first and foremost should be top priority. Despite how much I've loved the feature developments of past releases, any new features at this point would merely be more things I'd love to have, while the old features are something my actual livelihood currently depends on.

     

    I look forward to the opportunity to make use of what would otherwise be exceptionally great improvements to this program. Thanks for hearing my input.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 22, 2011 7:31 AM   in reply to _durin_

    I am a mastering engineer in Austin, TX and have been extensively using Audition since it was Cool Edit Pro. I have purchase every upgrade since.

     

    Some of the effects that I would like to see moved from Audition 3.0 to CS 6, would be the following (I use them extensively in the Edit window)

  • Also, I would love to retain use of the DX effects that I own.

    ·         Amplify/Fade (process) – used for gradually changing levels in the middle of a song

    ·         Envelope (process) – for changing levels, fades, etc. in mid song.

    ·         FIR Filter, include the Time-variable settings – this is great to remove buzz in a fadeout.  You can transition from a full-pass to low-pass during the fade. It can be used for many surgical fixes in mastering. In once case, I used it to change the timber of a piano where it started solo requireing a much fuler EQ, then as other instruments came into the song, the piano required less depth. Time-variable FIR made this easy to accomplish.

    ·         Stereo Expander

    ·         Stretch, constant stretch and with gliding stretch – to gradually change tempo of a song (or part of a song) over time.

    ·         Pitch Shifter and Pitch Correction (process)

    One thing I'd like fixed is the use of IK Multimedia VST mastering effects. None of them work with Audition, but they work very well with other editing applications. It may be that IK's effect don't follow the VST letter of the law, but if other editing applications can deal with them, I'd love Audition to as well.

    I would like Audition to add to its metering, VU capabilities conforming to Bob Katz K-System metering. I own a VST plugin from Roger Nichols Digital that does this, but it would be better as part of the Audition application.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2011 10:20 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin,

     

    Thanks. I'll check those location; I don't know how I missed them. And thank you for such a wonderful mastering suite.

     

    Mike

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2011 10:59 AM   in reply to _durin_

    Thanks for the continuous feedbacks from me too, Durin. It really means much to see that Adobe actually listen to their customer base.

     

    I am in the radio production business and AA is number one "weapon of choice" for me and so many people from the same branch. All those things members mentioned as a wish list in this thread will hopefully implemented in next release.

     

    Cheers!

    Peter

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2011 12:58 PM   in reply to _durin_

    Hi Durin,

     

    One issue that I found in CS 5.5 is that for VST effects, I can't save presets. Well, I can save them, but when re-opened, I can't recall them.

     

    Thanks,

    Mike

     
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