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General InDesign CS5.5 EPub Issues/Thoughts

New Here ,
May 05, 2011 May 05, 2011

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I've been playing with the EPub export feature of CS5.5 for the past day, and have a question as well as a few thoughts/feature requests. I wonder if it would be useful to have a general thread for the new EPub feature for a little while, since it will be new to most people?

In any case, my questions: 1) Is it possible to set an object to -not- be included in the export? I assumed this would be an option in the "Object Export Options" dialogue, but it doesn't seem to be. Is this option hidden somewhere else, or is there a workaround? I have a number of objects that are used to add visual interest on the printed layout but that don't make any sense to include in an EPub/HTML export.

2) When I get to the EPub export box there's nothing in the "Unique Identifier" field. I thought I should have the option of using one created by InDesign automatically?

My thoughts: although it's a very welcome upgrade, does it feel to anyone else as though it's a bit half-baked? For example, the new object export options don't seem to be included in the object styles, so they have to be changed object-by-object, which isn't very nice for longer layouts.

Similarly, you can't save different EPub/HTML export settings, which seems like a pretty basic feature to expect.

Finally, the fact that endnotes aren't supported has been a glaring issue for a while now, but it's causing new problems now that EPub/HTML exports are easier. In print endnotes that aren't 'live' are only an issue for the layout person; in HTML 'dead' notes with no hyperlinks are pretty embarrassing.

How have other people been finding the new EPub/HTML export features?

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replies 113 Replies 113
Guide ,
May 05, 2011 May 05, 2011

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1) You control which objects are included in your EPUB export using the new Articles panel.

  • see: http://adobe.ly/mRVWYZ

2) The unique identifier field auto-fill

  • Generally you enter the EPUB isbn here.
  • However, If you leave this field empty during export InDesign will automatically generate a random Unique Identifier.
  • If you break open the EPUB file and look at the content.opf file inside you should see something like this:

<dc:identifier>

    urn:uuid:b8123fc9-fbad-4f66-86ae-edbde9159f8f

</dc:identifier>

Hope this helps,

Cari

---

my tweets: carijansen

my web-site: carijansen.com (lots of InDesign stuff on there).

my digital magazine for iPad: Latitude3195

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Thanks Cari! I'm embarrassed I didn't unzip the EPub to check if it did create a UUID anyway. Actually, the Lynda.com video seems to show a UUID appearing automatically in the export dialogue box, which is why I was confused. It must've been like that in a beta version or something.

As for the articles panel, I had been using the Page Layout ordering option instead of the Articles Panel option. (I still think offering the ability to make objects non-exporting would be helpful for those times when Page Layout ordering makes more sense.)

After playing with the Articles panel a bit, though, I only have more questions. The image I want to exclude is inside an anchored text box (it's a long report, with a table in a text box anchored halfway through the text, and an image inside the text box) and there doesn't seem to be any way to get at anchored objects inside the Articles panel, let alone something -inside- an anchored object.

Am I missing something? Are we expected to break things up into a bunch of text boxes whenever an element should be inserted at a particular point in the text flow and we want to be able to work with it in the Articles panel? I really hope I'm wrong, but so far it seems to be a pretty blunt instrument that's more suited to shorter layouts.

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Participant ,
Aug 10, 2011 Aug 10, 2011

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Hi Cari

If I leave the 'Unique identifier' field blank when exporting a document to epub in InDesign CS5.5, the content.opf file just reads:

<dc:identifier id="bookid"></dc:identifier>

Does this mean that InDesign is not entering a random identifier?

Marie

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Would love a course on creating eBooks for iPad (ePub format) and other tablets, separate from Digital Magazine (PDF) courses, but covering the same inDesign related material/workflow (Rich Media Foundations, Basic Interactivity, Adding Audio/Video, Advanced Interactivity, Deploying and Distributing) uniquely from the standpoint of ePub.

It seems to me that the ePub market is potentially much larger than the Digital Magazine market; there's a finite number of magazines, but an unlimited number of people toiling in home offices/small businesses who want to create eBooks for iPad, other tablets, and Kindle. Especially interested in finding out about deploying ePub formatted multimedia books to iPad and other tablets without having to go through Adobe or some super-expensive, always-escalating service like Roving Bird?

Right now as guardaroba says, the lines between teh two are blurred. Sure Adobe is raking in teh dough from Martha Stewart and all those big magazine clients, but the real numbers, it would seem to me, are in self-publishing/small publisher ePub platform eBooks — all the issues that are different than print, with an emphasis on multimedia and design.

There is simply no dedicated training out there that I can find.

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Community Expert ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Have you checked out Lynda.com?

There are some good courses there. This link will get you a free seven day trial: http://bit.ly/fcGpiI

Bob

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Yes, I subscribe to Lynda, already completed the inDesign CS5.5 New Features course. The instructor is great, but the course focus leaves a lot to be desired. It suffers from the same issue this thread raised: a general muddling of Digital Magazine & ePub. Check the course out for yourself. It's an overview, not an in-depth look, which is normal since the release just occured. However, what I find frustrating is that no one — Adobe or other parties — seem to understand that Digital Magazines and ePub eBooks are two different markets.

It's my understanding, after watching Terry White's tutorials, that CS5.5 now allows us to generate full-fledged, multimedia ePub eBooks for iPad/other tablets without having to program, then deploy them without having to go through a lot of expense. It seems that the CS5.5 allows us to do this, but nobody is putting any efort into the various ways these two solutions are different and what those differences mean in terms of using inDesign for each specific purpose.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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In fact, I sent a note to Lynda about their producing such a course (on ePub alone) and received this terse reply:

Thank you for contacting lynda.com.

We really appreciate hearing from you regarding ideas for educational material you'd like to see added to the Online Training Library®. Currently, we do not have InDesign CS5.5 Creating ePub eBooks training in production. However, we keep every request on file, and your request has been forwarded to our Title Development team for consideration.

Stay tuned to lynda.com for new releases, or keep tabs on us through the blog, our Facebook fan page, or Twitter.

Which seems like an aauto response, not like someone even read my note. Gee, I'm sure that by following Lynda on FB/TW, I'll learn all about inDesign CS5.5.

The fact that two people have raised this issue means there are probably thousand either too busy or reluctant to speak up or unable to yet formulate their feelings.

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Community Expert ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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With all due respect to Terry, who's absolutely brilliant, the stuff on Adobe TV is as much advertising as it is anything else.

There's nothing simple about any of this.

Bob

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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All the more to have in-depth training, starting with general overview issues like how the folio tools fit into the ePub process, then following up with details on each and every phase of production/deployment.

What's more, I realize that Adobe TV is advertising, but there's a fine line between advertising and false advertising. It seemed to me that someone like myself, who's used inDesign to lay out print books, who understands multimedia technology, could learn to use inDesign for ePubs, given the proper orientation and instruction. But if you're saying that no one except an Objective C programmer can create these books, then:

  1. Adobe has a long way to go before these tools are worth much to the experienced user.
  2. Adobe is verging on false advertising.

From what I've seen some parts are not complicated. Okay, if some parts are complicated, what are they? How do you accomplish them? What tools do you need besides inDesign? How does the Content Viewer fit into to the process? The folio stuff? When do you need an iPad for testing? How do you upload your content to the Apple store?

It's either black magic or it isn't. It's either something an experienced inDesign user can do or it isn't? In that case, which portions have to be done by the programmer?

Thanks for your help...by the way.

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Community Expert ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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The folio tools DON'T fit into the EPUB process.

Bob

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Thanks, Bob. Now if I could only get the rest of my questions answered, I'd be on my way...

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Community Expert ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Have you seen my Lynda.com title  'InDesign CS5 to EPUB, Kindle, and the iBookstore"?

http://www.lynda.com/tutorial/75445

I will be going in to record the CS5.5 version of the same title in a few weeks. The automated response you received was disheartening, and I'll forward it on to Lynda.com. But my guess is the response is pulling from some database and my title is not far enough along in production to have made it into the title.

The lines are definitely blurring but there is no way you're going to get the layout control and interactivity of a tablet app into EPUB format, at least not in the next year or two.

AM

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Anne-Marie,

How gracious of you to step in. I've followed your work over time, on Lynda and on Adobe. You're truly one of the experts.

I did watch part of your CS5 tutorial, but determined that CS5 wouldn't allow us to do the multimedia, design-rich books we wanted to do. So we set about programming the whole thing. Then, when CS5.5 was announced, we figured, from what we saw in the Terry White and other literature, that we could do most of what we wanted (without the Digital Magazine stuff, which we also explored) with the new 5.5 release.

We have a children's book and a sports book that we want to produce for the multimedia tablets (iPad and others) in the first instance only. We want to include interactivity, multimedia, and design. Right now, however, we're confused as to how much programming effort and which tools we'll need. At first, we thought inDesign 5.5 might do it all, but now, from the response on this forum, we're having to revise our hopes. We have almost all the assets; they conform to standards: mp3, mp4, etc.

Nevertheless, there seems to be some confusion, even in the Adobe camp, as to what tools we need to create/view/deploy content. i.e., Adobe Digital Editions is broken. Not sure about what's replacing it, etc.

As for...

The lines are definitely blurring but there is no way you're going to get the layout control and interactivity of a tablet app into EPUB format, at least not in the next year or two.

...it would seem to be relatively easy for the programming staff at Adobe or other organization to create tools for laying out eBooks for (ePub or other tablet platforms) and once they're well laid out, simply pushing a button to render out fully operational multimedia eBooks, just as we now grind out PDF for print books. No one talks about programming PDF any more; it's simply occurs behind the scenes. If it's going to take two years to move eBooks onto the same footing, that's an awful lot of lost business. There are thousands of small publishers (we're one) and self-publishers waiting for these tools, and someone is going to create them. Adobe has a head start, but look what Google did with Blogger; they leap-frogged WordPress. The same kind of user-friendly tools must be in the offing in some entrepreneurial establishment.

Can't wait for you CS5.5 Lynda tutorial, and, in the meantime, will go through your complete CS5 offering.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Anne-Marie,

PS. Hope you include a lot of inDesign to iPad material in your new CS5.5 tutorial.

Thanks, JJ Semple

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Enthusiast ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Check out Liz Castro blog.

http://www.pigsgourdsandwikis.com/2010/07/epub-straight-to-point-epub-version.html

I'd also get my hands on her epub "Epub Straight to the point"

Both the epub and the blog site are invaluable.

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New Here ,
May 06, 2011 May 06, 2011

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Thanks, Somehow found her blog this morning, and already purchased her book. Will study the blog for tips. Anne-Marie's new CS5.5 tutorial should provide a lot of info. I'm going to start laying out my books per her workflow, add to it when her 5.5 tutorial comes online.

One thing I'm confused on is for the Adobe Digital Magazine platform you have to create two versions of a magazine, a vertical and horizontal. According to the Promotional hype, you don't have to do this for ePub platform; it resizes and reflows automatically as you reorient the tablet.

Two versions seem like a ridiculous solution, especially if you don't have to do it for ePub. Can anyone set me straight on this? How it works for ePub: two version 0r one?

Thanks, marcusstringer

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Community Expert ,
May 07, 2011 May 07, 2011

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Think of the ePub format, and its adaptions a such as .mobi, as basically HTML in an XML container and supplying content for eReaders  such as the Sony eReader, the Kindle and the Nook.  These are suitable for simple one-column text-centric books with few illustrations and the text is reflowable so you don’t have pages as such. These formats are ideal for simply designed books, such as novels, biographies and so on.

ePub is not suitable for highly designed books with lots of integrated illustrations, sidebars and so on, for which you’d use a format such as PDF or the newer formats designed for tablets. Often publishers produce two versions for these devices; one for portrait and one for landscape.

Derek

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Community Expert ,
May 07, 2011 May 07, 2011

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Again, DPS and EPUB are two completely different animals...and you don't have to create two orientations. If you don't, however, you won't get the automatic change when you rotate the tablet. I recently did a job for a major publisher and they elected to have one orientation only. How many people really rotate the tablet when they're reading?

EPUB is very much like the web. The text adapts and flows according to the view port. DPS is a fixed layout. The designer chooses everything.

It's certainly very labor intensive but it's not ridiculous and until you start working with it and get comfortable with the disconnect between some native ID feature and the limitations of the tablets, you're not likely to see why things are the way they are.

Bob

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New Here ,
May 07, 2011 May 07, 2011

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Thanks Bob and Derek. I'm going to start laying out my books as per Anne-Marie's Lynda course.

Again, from what you're saying, CS5.5 really doesn't allow the multimedia features that the Terry White videos say it does. So the 5.5 Terry White tutorial demos were really programmed? None of the features can be easily implemented?

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Community Expert ,
May 07, 2011 May 07, 2011

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That's not correct. It's just the video does a less than stellar job of pointing out when it's switching from EPUB to DPS.

Bob

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Enthusiast ,
May 07, 2011 May 07, 2011

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BobLevine wrote:

Again, DPS and EPUB are two completely different animals...and you don't have to create two orientations. If you don't, however, you won't get the automatic change when you rotate the tablet. I recently did a job for a major publisher and they elected to have one orientation only. How many people really rotate the tablet when they're reading?

EPUB is very much like the web. The text adapts and flows according to the view port. DPS is a fixed layout. The designer chooses everything.

It's certainly very labor intensive but it's not ridiculous and until you start working with it and get comfortable with the disconnect between some native ID feature and the limitations of the tablets, you're not likely to see why things are the way they are.

Bob

How many people really rotate the tablet when they're reading?

That is not really the correct way of looking at it. Some people use their iPad exclusively in landscape mode and others exclusively in portrait mode. The correct way to word the question would be "How many people want to have to rotate their iPad to use your app?" I, for one, would only buy an app that is available in landscape mode.

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Community Expert ,
May 08, 2011 May 08, 2011

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I don't disagree, Fred. And that's why with a current job that I'm working on, the client and I both agree that if the text flows just a bit differently in the portrait or landscape mode, it's okay. Not very many will notice since they choose a way to read and stick with it.

The other thing to think about is the tablet itself. Take the PlayBook for instance, It's 1024x600. That's not very tall when in landscape mode.

But I digress, the real point here is that the creation process is very, very labor intensive. In the job I referred to my previous post, the client supplied their vertical orientation iPad files and I handled the conversion to PlayBook. It was 80 hours of work to go from 1024x768 to 1024x600.

So, if I have any beef about any of this is the fact that it's made to look to so simple. Again, as I said earlier, there's nothing simple about any of this.

Bob

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Participant ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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Hello, Anne Marie,

I'd watched all your Lynda.com tutorials on InDesign CS5, and recently all the adobe TV and whatever offerings Lynda.com has so far (not much) on InddCS5.5. I think I remember in your CS5 tutorials you saying something about no running heads... Not sure if this is different in CS5.5. I'm assuming that now that I'm ready to do the epub version of a book, which I have laid out for the print version, that I will need to make another version for epub, without any running heads (or page numbers). Am I correct? I'd listen to your entire CS5 tutorial again on Lynda.com, but I know so much was changed for CS5.5 and I don't want to get confused.

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Participant ,
Jun 09, 2011 Jun 09, 2011

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Also, AnneMarie,

By now, now that InddCS5.5 has been released, it may be that the specs have changed for nook and kindle. I will get to researching this, but if you cover it in your next Lynda.com tutorial, that would be great.

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