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J0hj0h
J0hj0h
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Which is a good format for editing?

Jun 25, 2011 10:34 AM

I'm using CS5 Production Premium on my laptop and the H.264 MP4-Clips my camera records to don't run as smooth as I liked.

I've found many websites that recommend using another video format but I couldn't find any precise information. I even tried out some codecs to find out which one I should use, but most of them tool really long to render and didn't even play smoothly in the Windows Media Player or Quicktime Player.

 

That's why I'd like to hear about some good formats for Windows that don't render too long, have a decent quality and most importantly play smoothly in Premiere and After Effects.

1107 Views   8 Replies   Latest reply: Jim Simon, Jun 27, 2011 9:57 AM
 
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  • Rallymax
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    1. Rallymax,
    Jun 25, 2011 1:00 PM   in reply to J0hj0h
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    - Commercially CineForm is great and adds full integration to Premiere.

     

    - AVC-Intra* (MPEG4 aka H.264), MPEG2-Intra, DV & HDV are supported in Premiere CS5.x already.

     

    *Note I would suggest you NOT use AVC in any form because it's the hardest to decode and your laptop probably isn't up to the task.

     

    - Open Source (ie free)... Motion JPEG or HuffyYUV are great easily decoded & encoded intermediates. You can get Motion JPEG & HuffyYUV support via ffdshow-tryouts. (see below)

     

    A friendly input format is important. It is A LOT easier for the PC if the compression of the source is (an easy format to decode and ) one that is frame-by-frame because Premiere can then jump around really easily. AVC-Intra (it is AVCHD aka H.264 aka MPEG-4 part 10) is a blend of both. It's a great size for the quality you get and only kinda hard to decompress - It is Frame-by-Frame only so it has no Before or After frame compression. It's just compression of a single frame (thus H.264 "I" frames - Wikipedia for it) This makes it easier to decode.

     

    In CS4 & CS5 use Adobe Media Encoder to change your source material to a friendly video format (it's called a "Digital Intermediate). (or use a free command line tool like ffmpeg to batch convert your files (see below open source tools).

     

    Note - you should use a format that Premiere NATIVELY supports. Why? Because if you render out a clip you want the cache of that to be the same as what you're working in. You don't have to but if you choose another intermediate (like AVC-Intra, MPEG, MPEG-Intra, MPEG2, MPEG2-Intra, DV, HDV) you will be no longer working in the easy format you turned your source into.

     

    Bottom line - buy CineForm or use DV (std def) or HDV (hi def).

     

        • Open Source & Motion JPEG.

    Note 1: Premiere DOESN'T HAVE NATIVE SUPPORT FOR MotionJPEG or HuffyYUV.

     

    Here are some instructions I posted on the step-by-step of OPENING of Motion JPEG source

     

    http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/308650-HOWTO-Edit-Motion-JPEG-(MJPG )-in-Adobe-or-even-Windows-Movie-Maker

     

    NOTE: ffdshow is obsolete. Use ffdshow-tryout instead http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

    (the "tryout" doesn't mean that it's a trial etc so don't worry about that).

     

    BTW, this is the Software Development Kit forum.

     

    You should be posting to the Premiere Forum unless you're developing Adobe plugins.

    http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere

     

    For Current version (CS5.x)

    http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/premierepro_current

     

    For Previous versions

    http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/premierepro_previous

     
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  • Jim Simon
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    2. Jim Simon,
    Jun 25, 2011 3:01 PM   in reply to J0hj0h
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    Your best bet is to upgrade your hardware to something that can handle the native media.

     

    Until the funds for that arrive, I find the free UT codec works well inside of PP.

     
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  • J0hj0h
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    3. J0hj0h,
    Jun 26, 2011 5:57 AM   in reply to Rallymax
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    Thank you, Rallymax for your detailed reply!

    I have to admit, I wondered why there was just a SDK forum and no one more general for Premiere, until I scrolled down just now...

    Unfortunately I'm German and have a bit trouble understanding really everything in your post (even though I mostly understood it ) but I'd like to ask where I can find the HDV codecs in the media encoder. I'm generally not using SD, so DV doesn't work for me and I haven't found HDV...

     

    Also thank you Jim Simon, but I won't have the money to buy better equipment in near future!

     
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  • Rallymax
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    4. Rallymax,
    Jun 26, 2011 1:36 PM   in reply to J0hj0h
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    >>>but I'd like to ask where I can find the HDV codecs in the media encoder.

     

    You're right! I can't find it either!

     

    Use the Format= P2 Movie, Preset= DVCPRO HD. (btw it is also known as DVCPRO100)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV#DVCPRO_HD

     

    This is 4 DV streams in parallel and is natively supported in Premiere.

     

    Note - it is 100Mbps (ie 10mBytes/second) so you need a lot of hard disk space and good hard disk speed - any internal laptop harddisk in the last 5+ years should be able to do 10Mbytes/second.

     

    External USB should work... I've had problems getting that sort of speed (100Mbps)

         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#USB_2.0

     

    eSATA will work.

         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esata#eSATA

     

    Firewire 400 & 800 will work.

         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire#FireWire_400_.28IEEE_1394-1995.2 9

     

     

    SIZE (due to # bits/second) vs CPU power.

     

         Small size + complicated to decode ...VS... Big size + easy to decode.

    Eg          AVC                                   MJPEG, DVCPRO HD, etc

     

    AVC was never designed to be an editing format. It's designed to be very small so that it can be broadcast over cable or satellite with less bandwidth.

    It just happens with the HUGE processing power of CPUs and nVidia GPUs (CUDA Mercury Engine) that it's possible to work with it.

     

    MJPEG doesn't scale to HD very well. It makes lots of artifact errors.

    DVCPRO HD is a good alternative. But it IS LOSSY.

     

    In the middle is MPEG2. Your laptop should be able to edit with it quickly.

     

         Format=MPEG2, Preset = HDTV xxxxxx xx fps

     

    To make it frame-by-frame only (a bit easier to decode)... click the Preset to bring up the settings. Then change the Video -> Advanced -> GOP Settings to N = 1 and then M = 1.

     

    If I were you I would spend $130 and get Cineform neoscene or install the free UT Codec mentioned by Jim. I don't think HDV on a poor speed laptop or MPEG2 with its lossy compression are going to give you amazing results.

     

         http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/

          

         http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Ut_Video_Codec_Suite

     

    Rallymax.

     
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  • Ann Bens
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    5. Ann Bens,
    Jun 26, 2011 1:47 PM   in reply to J0hj0h
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    For hdv footage you can use the mpeg BluRay1440x1080 preset. If you want 1 file set the multiplexer ON.

     

    FFDshow is a big NO NO when editing with Adobe Software.

     
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  • ninteknohardcore
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    6. ninteknohardcore,
    Jun 26, 2011 7:50 PM   in reply to J0hj0h
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    My all time favorite that I've been using for years for offline edits= Quicktime Mov's using the PhotoJpeg codec at %75 quality... it still looks good, is very light on the cpu and the files are small. I offline using PhotoJpeg mov's at 1920x1080 24fps they play back smooth on my laptop with no problem. You could use Premiere Pro, Quicktime Pro, or After effects to render your offline PhotoJpeg mov's....

     
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  • J0hj0h
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    7. J0hj0h,
    Jun 27, 2011 7:20 AM   in reply to ninteknohardcore
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    Thanks alot for all your replies!

     

    It seems to be very complicated to find a format suitable for me! I really appreciate your effort, but I think it might be better to continue using the H.264 even though it doesn't run that smooth.

     

    But if I could render out proxies for editing and do the final render with the original files without having to change every clip individually, I would be satisfied! Unfortunately I haven't found a way to change the source of multiple clips in Premiere at once and did not search for a way in After Effects. Is that possible?

     
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  • Jim Simon
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    8. Jim Simon,
    Jun 27, 2011 9:57 AM   in reply to J0hj0h
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    If you want to use racing fuel, it only makes sense to use a race car to match.

     

    With your media, new hardware really is what's needed here.

     
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