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Jo Omega
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Audition 5.5 MP4 files issue

May 2, 2011 9:46 PM

Audition 5.5 does not properly read some MP4 files. It cuts the sample rate in

half and the file.  The files were created using a nero mp4 filter in Audition 3. Please correct this issue. It is most likely a simple bug in reading the file sample rate. Possibly either re-read the file when interpreting the sample rate so the full file is read. Re-interpreting the sample rate does give the correct playback.

 

Also please add better mp4 support. I haven't tried to use the old mp4 filter for audition 3 but it is a big mess to get it to work in many cases. Audition should have native mp4 support. (mp4 is becoming the standard... don't get left behind)

 
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    May 3, 2011 1:54 AM   in reply to Jo Omega

    So what machine are you running this on, then? If it's not the Mac beta, and actually the 5.5 release, you've got it illegally.

     
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    May 3, 2011 5:22 AM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    I bought v4 1815 yesterday so it is available. And different. Downloaded it a few minutes ago. Very small file, 185 MB. I thought there was a bunch of samples to go with it. Will need to check around for them. But thought I would jump on here and stop the illegal copy rumor.

     

    I bought mine yesterday at about 4 PM. Didn't get download instructions until 1:14 AM last night. Installed this morning at about 7 AM. This not trial I bought it. 

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    May 3, 2011 5:57 AM   in reply to chasms

    chasms wrote:

     

    I bought v4 1815 yesterday so it is available. And different. Downloaded it a few minutes ago. Very small file, 185 MB. I thought there was a bunch of samples to go with it. Will need to check around for them. But thought I would jump on here and stop the illegal copy rumor.

     

    I bought mine yesterday at about 4 PM. Didn't get download instructions until 1:14 AM last night. Installed this morning at about 7 AM. This not trial I bought it. 

     

    Yes, I've just discovered that they've released it earlier than they said they would (middle of the month) - but the illegal copy 'rumour' was rather more than that, I'm afraid. Clearly it doesn't apply to you, so I'm sorry about suggesting that it might have. As for the MP4 issues - well, the devs are already aware of several issues to do with this I think, but I'm also sure that they will welcome additional comments from users as well. What they will actually do about it remains to be seen, though.

     
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    May 3, 2011 7:59 AM   in reply to Jo Omega

    Jo Omega wrote:

     

    Audition 5.5 does not properly read some MP4 files. It cuts the sample rate in

    half and the file.

    When you mean it cuts the sample rate in half, is that to say that file is playing back slow, does it mean that if you open it in one app it is ______ Hz but in Audition CS5.5 it opens as _______ Hz, or does it mean that all the high frequency information is gone?

     

    If it is the latter of the three, then it probably means that our MP4 file is HE AAC v1 or HE AAC v2 which has a way to further encode/synthesize the high frequency information. If you open this file in QuickTime does it sound the same?  If so, then the real issue is QuickTime's limitation on AAC formats it can support.  Since we import MPEG4 audio through QuickTime in Audition CS5.5, we are subject to that limitation as well.

     

    Jo Omega wrote:

     

    The files were created using a nero mp4 filter in Audition 3.

     

    People can contact us about using an SDK to write new file importer and exporter plug-ins for Audition CS5.5 just like in previous versions.  So nero could create one for this version of Audition as well if people didn't want to wait until we get to it.

     
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    May 3, 2011 10:57 PM   in reply to Jo Omega

    I'm pretty Surre Quicktime Updated itself recently to support HE_AAC with SBR (but not PS) so try updating Quicktime mb?

     
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    May 4, 2011 1:05 PM   in reply to junh1024

    I'm having exactly the same problem and the lastest(just installed today) QT plays the audio fine. This is almost definitely a problem with Audition and most likely a simple programming bug.

     

    When I load certain mp4 files, possibly the type junh mentions, the sample rate is half what it should be and only half the file is loaded. It plays back, obviously, at have the rate which is unacceptable.

     

    I am also not able to same mp4 files under quicktime setting. It saves it as raw(or uncompressed) and, coincidently the sample rate it 22khz which is exactly the same it is loading the 44khz mp4's as.

     

    Fire the intern that wrote the code and get someone that knows what they are doing!

     

    Heres a test file:

     

    http://www.mediafire.com/?dnvqyb179csf0ry

     

    When you open it the sample rate should show 22khz even though it's suppose to be 44khz. You'll just have to trust me that the original is 2x as long so even reinterpretting the sample rate doesn't work.

     
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    May 5, 2011 1:08 AM   in reply to Jo Omega

    oF course resampling up the sample rate won't work. because it's not reading in the HE stream in the first place, and a lower sample rate furever ditches whats beyond half its limit. A notverynice workaround is to convert the MP4 to WAV or FLAC (using a decoder which reads HE_AAC proprly) and read that in A4. Try forcing flags with mp4box or mkvmerge&demux, etc. On a related note, the .flt s that were made for AC3/DTS , FLAC , FAAC input&export no longer work in A4.

     
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    May 6, 2011 11:21 AM   in reply to junh1024

    It's not the higher frequencies I'm concerned about. I assume the HE stream is the high end frequencies? It's not only cutting that out then but also half the file's data. That is more important to me than the reduced quality. If I try to open an mp4 with it I'm only getting half the song(not to mention it's in slow mo but I can fix that... it may also be reduced quality but my ears are so bad I couldn't tell the diff).

     

    In any case it opens up fine in QT so it surely must be an audition issue. The real question is are they going to fix it? I did give the sample file so either it is reproducible or not. My guess is that it's such a specific type of bug that it is most likely a programming logic error.

     
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    May 6, 2011 11:02 PM   in reply to Juckaluckabee

    Juckaluckabee wrote:

     

    Heres a test file:

     

    http://www.mediafire.com/?dnvqyb179csf0ry

     

    When you open it the sample rate should show 22khz even though it's suppose to be 44khz. You'll just have to trust me that the original is 2x as long so even reinterpretting the sample rate doesn't work.

    Thanks for the file.  I can repro the problem with this file and I'll look into why this file is "special".   Note that this doesn't happen with every MP4 file... where did you get the file / in what application did you create it?

     

    Also, for those considering upsampling, don't.   Use the Edit > Interpret Sample Rate command instead.

     
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    May 7, 2011 12:44 AM   in reply to Charles VW

    The file was created with a custom adobe filter found on the web. It was used for cool edit and audition to give audition the ability to read/save mp4 files. It does not work with audition 4.0 though as it seems it no longer support's filters(.flt plugins). The filter uses nero's AAC encoder and was very convienient and I never had issue with it in audition 3.

     

    The only gripe I have with Audition 4 is it's file support. It should support Mp4's natively long with many other formats and shouldn't have the problems it has(can't save mp4 files even with quicktime as it always defaults to pcm and can't be changed).

     

    Many of the mp4's I use are created with nero's AAC encoder.

     

    http://www.nero.com/eng/downloads-nerodigital-nero-aac-codec.php

     

    Again though, quicktime loads the mp4's fine so it is an issue with audition. It seems that the file loading and saving code of audition was not thoroughly tested before release. Please fix this issue soon as it is the only thing making me want to go back to audition 3.0. (having issues loading your files is a pretty big deal)

     
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    May 8, 2011 5:48 AM   in reply to Charles VW

    Charles, all,

     

    same issue here with a HE-AAC (v1) file encoded using Fraunhofer's encoder. the output sampling rate equals the core-coder rate, i.e. is half what it should be, and only the first half of the file is opened in Audition. Maybe related to the SBR signaling?

     

    Chris

     
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    May 10, 2011 5:56 PM   in reply to junh1024

    junh1024 wrote:

     

    I'm pretty Surre Quicktime Updated itself recently to support HE_AAC with SBR (but not PS) so try updating Quicktime mb?

    Do you have a citation for this?

     
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    May 10, 2011 5:58 PM   in reply to junh1024

    junh1024 wrote:

     

    On a related note, the .flt s that were made for AC3/DTS , FLAC , FAAC input&export no longer work in A4.

     

    Correct, we now have a new plug-in format that is cross-platform.   The FLT code was too windows-centric and was not extendable to modern platforms.

     
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    May 10, 2011 6:18 PM   in reply to Charles VW

    Hi Charles,

     

    I was wondering if you could clarify the plugin issues - do they extend to the problem with Voxengo multichannel plugins not working - they show as disabled?  Is this issue something that Adobe will address and address soon, or will people interested in third-party multichannel plugins have to jump ship?

     

    A trivial thing - I don't think that you intended to suggest that Windows is not a modern platform.  Right?

     

    Thanks,

    Steve

     
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    May 10, 2011 6:32 PM   in reply to Charles VW

    Charles VW wrote:

     

    junh1024 wrote:

     

    On a related note, the .flt s that were made for AC3/DTS , FLAC , FAAC input&export no longer work in A4.

     

    Correct, we now have a new plug-in format that is cross-platform.   The FLT code was too windows-centric and was not extendable to modern platforms.

     

    Any chance that an sdk will be publicly available?

     
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    May 10, 2011 6:48 PM   in reply to Steve C2

    Hey Steve,

     

    I just wanted to chime in on the Voxengo issue you mentioned. This is a problem we found with a few other plug-ins and it turns out the issue is with the plug-ins themselves reporting they are 8 channel (7.1) effects. After investigating we found that the way to work around this issue was too complex to complete in time for release (when I say work-around I mean implement a different way as was done in other apps - some ways are Windows specific in fact, like Audition 3). We have been contacting the developers of each plug-in that has this problem to alert them to a more simple change that can be made on their end to make this work in any application (without the need for a workaround).

     

    We do plan to work on this as time allows to get these working in Audition, but we hope the plug-in manufacturers release updates for their plug-ins as well. To be even clearer, this is not a problem with Audition and all third-party multichannel plugins.

     

    As for the comment Charles made, I'll let him clarify for you but I can help with the initial answer ;-) Modern platforms in this reference is referring to the latest Windows and Mac Operating Systems. The code we had for the .flt format was very Windows-centric, but in a very Windows 98/XP sort of way. It worked with Windows Vista and 7 as well, but it wasn't meant to be extensible for more modern versions of the Operating Systems going forward.

     

    I hope that helps a bit.

     

    --Ron

     
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    May 10, 2011 7:24 PM   in reply to Ron_Day

    Hi Ron,

     

    This sounds very encouraging.  I am finding a lot to like with CS 5.5.  While I don't expect that everyone will feel this way, I am hoping that where CS 5.5 hasn't implemented certain features, I can work around them and/or supplement them with third-party products.  I prefer to continue with Audition and CS 5.5 works much better with my audio interface driver than AA 3 does.  I don't want to go back.  I'm hoping I can stick with CS 5.5.

     

    Charles doesn't need to respond, unless he feels that he needs to.  While others might, I don't have any interest in legacy XP.  I just was concerned about, as a Windows user, becoming handcuffed in terms of functionality, but it seems clear that will not be the case.

     

    Thanks,

    Steve

     
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    May 10, 2011 9:06 PM   in reply to Juckaluckabee

    Juckaluckabee wrote:

     

     

    Any chance that an sdk will be publicly available?

     

    Please private msg me for details.

     
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    Jun 30, 2011 12:26 PM   in reply to C.R.Helmrich

    I just realized that I never got around to responding to this thread.

     

    Here's the deal.

     

    • This only happens with _some_ MPEG 4 High Efficiency AAC files (not all HE AAC, never with just regular, low complexity AAC)
    • There are several ways to get the sample rate for a particular piece of media through the QuickTime APIs, unfortunately sometimes some of them lie to you.

     

    For example, using "GetMediaTimeScale" is unreliable for things like 3GP files with 8 kHz AMR Narrowband Audio (QuickTime API lies and reports the file to be 48 kHz)

     

    Alternate example, using AudioStreamBasicDescription (which works for the file above) is unreliable because in the case of the files that you guys submitted, the sample rate is off by a factor of 2.  However, this method would work for the filetype mentioned above.   Case in point, if you have an HE AAC at 32kHz, the MediaTimeScale will be reported as 32000, but the sampleRate in the AudioStreamBasicDescription will be 16000.

     

    Comparing against the QuickTime player is convenient, but not the same as using their APIs.   The player might have code to work around all the little nasties in the API that aren't published to the wider developer community.   To illustrate this, you can sometimes (on certain versions of OSX 10.6.x) see in the QTPlayerX (not the QuickTime Player 7.x) that the inspector will report this 1/2 samplerate value, but they get the duration and playback speed correct.

     

    In general the QuickTime libraries are much older than AAC (let alone HE AAC), despite MEPG4's similarity to the QuickTime .MOV atom format, the library doesn't handle them well, and unfortunately the library isn't getting much love from Apple these days.

     
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