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PrP 5.5 MPE quandry - CUDA card or Kona 3 - Pick 1 for use

Jul 7, 2011 6:57 AM

Wow, I just learned from Adobe tech support,something that has the potential to really disappoint a lot of editors switching to PrP 5.5. I was told that PrP supports only 1 graphics card at a time. So you have a choice. If you want to take full advantage of your CUDA card speeding certain things up, then you cant use the Kona 3 card to output the video to an engineering / client monitor. And conversely,  if you need to see your video from the Kona 3 card displayed on a external monitor, you cant take advantage of the MPE / CUDA benefits from your Nvidia card. Yikes.

 
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Jul 7, 2011 7:04 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    External monitoring of hardware MPE is a problem

    that has not yet been resolved.

     

    Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up


     
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    Jul 7, 2011 8:20 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    AJA seems very non-specific about this. You'd think that if their cards and drivers were working in concert with Premiere Pro's GPU acceleration, they'd be making a bigger deal out of it.

     

    From their news release, AJA Provides Enhanced Support of Adobe CS5.5 for Mac and Windows:

     

    The software updates, AJA Windows Software 5.5 and AJA Mac Plugins for Adobe 9.0.1 bring added support for Adobe CS5.5 and dramatically improve AJA software performance with the Mercury Playback Engine in Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5.

     

    They say "Mercury Playback Engine," but that's not necessarily indicative of the GPU-accelerated Mercury Playback Engine. MPE is on, all the time, whether you have a CUDA GPU or not, so this makes me think that this is just clever marketing that is taking advantage of the confusion surrounding what MPE actually is. I'd be curious to see some real results, myself; I'm interested in AJA hardware, too.

     
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    Jul 7, 2011 8:20 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    That is now 3 messages on the same subject... this one, plus

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/874359?tstart=0

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/874240?tstart=0

     

    It is really better to just have one message thread per subject

     
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    Jul 7, 2011 8:30 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    Definitely let us know what you find out. I'm assuming youre using the Kona card right now with CS5.5? All is well, even without a CUDA GPU?

     
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    Jul 7, 2011 4:52 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    Tim Kolb has a very informative post on this topic here:

    http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/3/913077

     
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    Jul 7, 2011 5:08 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    I don't know about the Kona card but you can definitely use more than one video card with PP5, unless they changed it with 5.5. I got rid of my BM card and just went with a second video card. Might not be a solution for you but it works great here.

     

    It's in the FAQs here:

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/744683

     

    Good Luck,

    C

     
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    Jul 8, 2011 6:42 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    Yep, if you are still dealing with tape machines then that is an issue. I dumped all of my tape machines except for one little firewire machine, when I went to HD.  Best!
    C

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Jul 8, 2011 7:33 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    Jim Simon:

     

    "Premiere Pro is looooong overdue for a proper monitoring solution,

    one  that does not depend on closing or extending desktops,

    one that does not  depend on third party codecs at all,

    one that works with just about any  graphics card that has the appropriate port."

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/3622807#3622807

     
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    Jul 8, 2011 1:37 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    Yep, agreed. But you can get that with the right video card and monitor. Just not as many options for tape machines. Monitoring is not the issue, connectivity to tape machines seems to be your quandry.

     

    Again, all three of my monitors match and the end result looks great and is within spec.

     

    Good luck with it.

    C

     
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    Jul 8, 2011 2:36 PM   in reply to Thrill Media
    Monitoring is not the issue

     

    It is if you want 480i to an SD CRT set, without using special hardware or presets.

     
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    Jul 13, 2011 11:40 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    Hi All,

     

    To be clear here, an AJA KONA or Io Express card WILL work in conjunction with Adobe approved nVidia 'CUDA' cards, and the GPU acceleration provided by the Mercury Engine.

     

    When using an AJA card for monitoring, mastering, or other playout, the AJA cards do require that you use an AJA preset.  However, those presets allow the Mercury Engine, including GPU acceleration, to do its thing on most file types.  There are some uncompressed 10-bit RGB file types that AJA has additional support for, which, will not see the same GPU benefit, but for 99% of Premiere Pro users, their nVidia and AJA cards can work together.

     

    The confusion is created to some degree by the fact that the AJA plugins for CS 5 did have some additional limitations which limited the performance bonus realized by the GPU acceleration when working in an AJA seqeuence in Premiere Pro.  However, with CS 5.5, the performance bonus is greatly increased.  While it is difficult to make a blanket statement like "4 RT streams" or "4 simultaneous RT effects" due to the number of potential variables that affect the performance of both the AJA plugins, and Premiere Pro, I can say with high confidence that those of you who use both an AJA video I/O card along with an approved nVidia graphics card, will see a great performance bonus relative to using the 'software only' version of Mercury Engine.

     

    I can say, that on my own test system here, I run both Windows 7 and Mac OS using bootcamp on an older MacPro (2008, v3.1) with 8 cores and 8GB of RAM, and a Quadro FX 4800.  On both operating systems I see similar results.  I reliably see 3 RT streams, and sometimes more, with several different effects, running 1080i29.97 ProRes, DVCProHD, and uncompressed footage at full resolution out of a KONA LHi, and KONA 3G.

     

    I have seen up to 6 streams with 6 effects run in real-time on this system, but that is generally with thin raster footage, at 24 or 25 fps.  I certainly wont make the claim that you will always get this performance.

     

    For those of you with more memory, newer systems, and newer nVidia cards, fast storage, lower resolutions, lower framerates, are likely to see better performance than this.

     

     

    Thad Huston

    AJA

     
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    Jul 13, 2011 11:47 AM   in reply to Thad AJA

    Thanks for the clarification, Thad.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Jul 13, 2011 12:02 PM   in reply to Thad AJA
    ...the AJA cards do require that you use an AJA preset.

     

    Can a project that uses the AJA sequence presets be accessed
    using a system that is not equipped with the AJA KONA card,
    or will I end up with sequences that can only be accessed using
    an identically configured AJA system?

     
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    Jul 13, 2011 12:44 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Joe,

     

    If the system doesnt have a KONA card installed, Premiere will just use its own components to open the project.  This is just automatically the way Premiere Pro will behave.

     

    The only stuff that wont work in this case are any files that are created using AJA specific codecs, which can be installed by themselves, without the cards.  In this case ONLY the codecs should be installed, not the Adobe plugins.  Our Adobe plugin sets do require the cards to be present, as some of the features of the plugins are hardware dependent.

     

    Thad

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Jul 14, 2011 8:21 AM   in reply to Thad AJA

    Thanks for the reply.
    Three questions:

     

    If I avoided AJA specific media codecs and plugins,
    a project with an AJA sequence could be opened and edited
    on any system with the same version of CS installed without
    any hiccups?

     

    What performance or function would be sacrificed by
    not using an AJA specific media codec?

     

    Can an alternate capture codec be specified on ingest,
    or will captured media need to be transcoded for compatibility
    with a system that does not have AJA codecs installed?

     
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