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OSX Lion, Lightroom 3 & deleted files: could be a bug?

Jul 25, 2011 7:31 AM

I've a library saved inside an external HD.

Normally I work with this catalog, selecting the photos and elaborating the images.

Last week I've made the upgrade from Snow Leopard to Lion and today I've found that if I try to delete an image, LR tell me that is impossible, because the disc does not support a trash bin (???) and so I've only the possibility to remove the photo permanently from the HD.

but if I create a new document inside the HD, the system let me delete it and move it inside the trash bin without any problem.

 

 

So I've taken another HD, formatted with HFS+ Journaled, I've created a new catalog, imported some photos...same problem, same story...LR doesn't let me delete the images but only definitively removing teh photos from the HD.

 

This could be a bug from LR with Lion?

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 25, 2011 7:45 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    LR is listed as working with OSX 10.6, not 10.7, so expect problems if you have chosen to upgrade.

    Problems reported with lots of Adobe stuff reported.

    You may have to wait for fixes from Apple or Adobe...if they are still talking to one another. In the meantime best to stick with what Adobe recommend if Adobe products are what is important to you and that means 10.6

     
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    Jul 25, 2011 8:28 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    You might need to make sure the external drive is set to ignore permissions. This sets special ACLs for removeable media. Every release of OS X tweaks these a little.

     
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    Jul 25, 2011 10:17 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    Both Apple and Microsoft have a one button fix for external drives, I think.

     

    "Ignore permissions on this volume" or something via Info view. I think.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 25, 2011 12:45 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    I'm seeing the exact same behavior. I have my pictures and the catalog on an external bus-powered drive.

     

    LR tells me the drive doesn't support the Trash and can only permanently delete files.

     

    The drive is set to ignore permissions.

     

    LR 3.4.1 and OS X 10.7.

     

    Weird.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 25, 2011 1:17 PM   in reply to Tom-Rockwell

    I've not had a single issue with deleting files with Lion, its as transparent as a clean sheet of glass.

    However, this does not help the afflicted.

     

     

     

    As people have commented, it appears that your drives are not willing to support Trash cans.

    I'd turn on View Hidden Files and look for  .TRASHES as that is where photos should be going.

    If its not there, then look into changing permissions as suggested

     

    A minor detail though.

     

    Do you want to delete the files or just put them into a trash can?

    If you want to delete them, then you have nothing to worry about. If you want to trash can them, then why are you deleting them?

     
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    Jul 25, 2011 2:30 PM   in reply to hamish niven

    Hamish:

     

    I'm curious, are your files and catalogs on an external drive?

     

    I don't have any problem if the files and catalogs are on my internal drive.

     

    And you're right, this isn't really a problem, it's just odd.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 8:38 AM   in reply to hamish niven

    You need to reset the Trash. It's not an Adobe problem. I went into Terminal and entered:

     

    sudo rm -rf

     

    followed by a single space. It asked for a password and after entering it I clicked enter. That cured it in all my hard drives. I also had to reset the SMC in the MacPro as it would not run when woken from sleep.

     

    The full instructions are here if you need to go further: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10357452-263.html

     

    Hope this helps.

     

    John

     
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    Jul 25, 2011 3:45 PM   in reply to wsjmw05

    John:

     

    Thanks for the link. I followed the instructions at the link (including dragging the offending volume to the Terminal) and it fixed the issue.

     

    I had to drag a file to the trash in order for Lion to make a .Trash folder but after that LR works like I'd expect.

     

    Thanks,

    Tom

     
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    Jul 26, 2011 4:24 AM   in reply to wsjmw05

    ... it *is* an Adobe issue: every other application I use has no problem at all deleting files from that very same external HD!

     

    checked and, obviously, ".Trashes" is present so I'm not going to apply an unneeded 2009 fix to a 2011 OS :-/

     

     

    so... what's Adobe word on this, please?

     

    thanks

     
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    Jul 26, 2011 7:11 AM   in reply to pl_svn

    I see your point. At the same time, you can fix this right now or you can wait for Adobe to say something that they may or may not even approach.

     

    Your choice.

     

    And remember, since the goal is to delete the files, it really isn't much of an issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 8:15 AM   in reply to Tom-Rockwell

    ... the issue is, once more, Adobe (and only Adobe) fixing their products months after a new Mac OS release

     

    if only I liked Aperture just a little bit... ;-p

     

     

    ok: I'll see, thank you :-)

     
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    Jul 26, 2011 8:40 AM   in reply to wsjmw05

    sudo rm -rf

     

    Please *do not* do this unless you know exactly what you are doing.  If you make the slightest mistake with an rm -rf (and I'm not even sure what a rm -rf on OSX does with no arguments), it will happily delete all of your files in whatever directory you happen to be in.

     
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    Jul 26, 2011 8:52 AM   in reply to dhyams

    yes: an extra space in the wrong place will erase the whole drive =:-/

     
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    Jul 27, 2011 4:36 PM   in reply to pl_svn

    pl_svn wrote:

     

    ... it *is* an Adobe issue: every other application I use has no problem at all deleting files from that very same external HD!

     

    I assume your testing has been exhaustive? You've run a great number of apps in a great number of corner cases where this trick to force the OS to reset the special ACLs on a new device is useful?

     

    This trick has been around for years, and is a response to any number of ways the OS or an app can get wedged interacting with the Trash/delete stuff on OS X. There is not much you can do to get around this problem as an application that follows the rules and tries to stick to supported file IO APIs.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 5:01 PM   in reply to clvrmnky

    clvrmnky wrote:

     

    I assume your testing has been exhaustive?

     

    what, probably due to my bad english, you don't get in "every other application I use"? ("any" is correct, not "every": right?)

     

    and, as you probably know, only in a few apps users can trash files from within the application

     

     

    so... yes: in my exhaustive testing of the apps (that have access to the Trash) I use,  only LightRoom has this issue!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 6:30 PM   in reply to pl_svn

    My point is that your absolutist statements blaming Lr for all your problems is based on incomplete information.

     

    This is a long-running issue with OS X. Sometimes apps can get wedged, and you have to resort to hacks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2011 5:08 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    Lion is great, but this is the one and only problem I have left with Lion, exactly the same problem you are experiencing with LR 3.

     

    Isopoda wrote:

     

    I've a library saved inside an external HD.

    Normally I work with this catalog, selecting the photos and elaborating the images.

    Last week I've made the upgrade from Snow Leopard to Lion and today I've found that if I try to delete an image, LR tell me that is impossible, because the disc does not support a trash bin (???) and so I've only the possibility to remove the photo permanently from the HD.

    but if I create a new document inside the HD, the system let me delete it and move it inside the trash bin without any problem.

     

     

    So I've taken another HD, formatted with HFS+ Journaled, I've created a new catalog, imported some photos...same problem, same story...LR doesn't let me delete the images but only definitively removing teh photos from the HD.

     

    This could be a bug from LR with Lion?

     

    I have posted this same problem in the LR forums and as yet have not found an answer other than to take the drastic step of 'Delete Files Anyway?' and then seeing that the files are indeed removed from the library and then indeed also that the files have been removed from the disk, BUT (and this is a big BUT) there are no files in the trash, even though you would expect that if you delete the files, LR allows you to delete and move them to the trash. With Lion, they simply diappear - so my question is: Are the files deleted? or are they dumped somewhere invisible that I don't know about to accumulate on the disk somewhere?

     

    It would be good to know...

     

    It' would be good if they were simply moved to the trash like they were with LR2.

     

    Ken

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 30, 2011 5:33 PM   in reply to Saskatchewanobie

    Ken... after updating to 10.7 I had a nasty issue with external HDs randomly becoming "read only", plus the one with Lightroom reported here

     

    so I reinstalled 10.7 (and every app) from scratch (recreating all their settings and manually migrating documents only) and... the "read only" HDs issue was still there. it disappeared, though, the instant I removed DiskDrill form my system :-)

     

    but the Lightroom issue is still (randomly) there. when it happens just unmount/remount your external HD

    hope it works for you too: it does everytime, here

     

    and, once more, it only happens with Lightroom!

    --

    paolo

     
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    Aug 30, 2011 8:19 PM   in reply to pl_svn

    pl_svn wrote:

     

    and, once more, it only happens with Lightroom!

    --

    paolo

     

    Thank You paolo,

     

    Seeing I am not the only one gives me hope that the issue will be addressed soon by Adobe. We like to keep our systems running lean and clean, so this is just one little 'hitch' that, when fixed, would make life so much better for users.

     

    Thanks for your input,

     

    Ken

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 21, 2011 9:49 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    I just started having this problem last night. Is the solution as outlines in the 9th response above the first step I should take? Is there any point in calling Adobe for help? I have tried to unmount/remount the EHD, no help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 21, 2011 4:07 PM   in reply to mistyprochaska

    The solution outlined in post 9 will work to fix the problem -- for a while. It may come back.

     

    I've fixed it twice and it's back again now.

     

    And it doesn't just happen in LR. It happens in Aperture, too.

     
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    Sep 22, 2011 1:22 PM   in reply to Tom-Rockwell

    The solution outlined in post 9 does not work for me.  I still get the nasty window telling me that Lightroom cannot move the files to the trash.  I can delete files from the finder from the same drive with no issues.  Only when Lightroom tries to delete the files do I have an issue.  Unmounting the drive and remounting does not fix it.  Repair Disk does not fix it.  Under Snow Lion I was able to fix the problem for a while by either Repair Disk or unmount/remount (I don't remember which).  The problem would always return however.  Under Lion, I cannot fix the problem no matter what I do.  ADOBE PLEASE HELP!

     
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    Sep 22, 2011 1:28 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    I called Adobe, they trashed the pref. file. I did not think it would work- shockingly, it worked. No longer having the problem.

     
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    Sep 24, 2011 12:46 AM   in reply to mistyprochaska

    Removing .Trash files works for a while. Deleting the plist did not help at all. Setting the EHD to "Ignore Ownership On This Volume" does seem to work though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 25, 2011 8:48 AM   in reply to sizzlingbadger

    aaaarrrggghhhh!!! once more getting "The files are on a volume that does not support Trash" and no usual trick works today!!!

     

    and, again, once more: only Lightroom can't delete files from that very same external HD!

     

     

    dear Adobe, seriously... there's something wrong in Lightroom under Mac OS 10.7.x: could you *please* fix it *NOW*? :-/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 10, 2011 3:46 AM   in reply to pl_svn

    I'm having the same issues deleting files from within LR 3.5 from my internal 2 drive RAID in my MacPro running Lion 10.7.1 (latest update). I tried all of the suggested remedies and none of the worked for me.

     

    I have no problems deleting files (move to trash) using the finder on any of my drives. Only when deleting a file from within LR do I get the message that the files cannot be moved to trash and will be deleted immediately.

     

    This is definitely a LR issue.

     

    Bud James

     
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    Oct 10, 2011 4:20 PM   in reply to budjames1

    I've had the problem come back with the released 3.5, too. I've fixed it with the delete trashes terminal command and it has come back again.

     

    I don't know if it's a LR issue or a Lion issue but I wish someone would fix it.

     

    I can delete from the finder just fine. It's only in LR that I have the problem.

     
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    Oct 17, 2011 5:10 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    Same problem for me with an external FW800 drive, HFS+ frmatted.

    Lightroom is the only software to show me that error.

    It showed up after upgrading to Lion. I use LR a LOT and it never showed up with Snow Leopard.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 20, 2011 8:48 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    Same problem with EHD's with LR 3.5 and OS X 10.7.2.

     

    I noticed that the problem seemed to go away at certain points during normal workflow, so I decided to try some reproducible steps. Here's what I came up with. Try it and reply.

     

    Ensure that you are getting the error by attempting to delete a photo, cancel when error occurs and do the following.

     

    1. Create a Folder anywhere in Lightroom. (On the affected EHD)

    2. Select "Show in Finder" in LR. (Verify the folder creation)

    3. Delete the folder in Lightroom. (Notice that the folder deletes from LR, but not the Finder.)

    4. Delete the folder in the Finder. (Command⌘+Delete)

    5. Return to LR.

    6. Delete photo(s) as desired.

     

    The workaround will/should stick until a restart is performed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 20, 2011 10:01 AM   in reply to mathewlewis

    ... this just confirms that wathever workround doesn' stick and we still need a permanent fix from Adobe! :-/

     
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    Oct 20, 2011 1:05 PM   in reply to mathewlewis

    OH THANK YOU! This worked! The probem returned for me a little while after Adobe helped me fix it by trashing the pref. file- that solution did not work for me when the problem returned recently. I don't care why this works, but I am just SO HAPPY it works at all! Thank you for sharing this. I have been putting off making the dreaded call back to Adobe support, and now I don't have to.

     
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    Dec 10, 2011 3:39 AM   in reply to Isopoda

    Having exactly the same problem as Isopoda.

    NONE of the advices posted here worked. Even using Lightroom 3.6 RC does not fix the problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2011 7:05 AM   in reply to Jako-mx

    ... not sure but *maybe* I tracked-down the issue :-)

     

    three weeks ago, for various reasons, I reformatted my HD and reinstalled everything from scratch

    all has been fine, with LightRoom, untill... today I moved (move & import) a bunch of files/folders from the desktop to an external HD *from within LR* and... voilà: the issue is back! :-(

     

     

    Mac OS 10.7.2, LR 3.5 and (just in case) WD myBook Élite 2TB

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2011 7:22 AM   in reply to mathewlewis

    ... your fix worked fine, here. let's see, now, how long it sticks ;-(

     

    thank you :-)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 17, 2011 6:23 PM   in reply to Isopoda

    So the bug continues in LR3.6. However, I have an easier  procedure to temporarily eleviate the issue.

     

    Simple.

     

    Boot your mac.

    Open the EHD.

    Create a New Folder on the EHD (Shift-Command-N).

    Delete the folder that you just created (Command-Delete).

    Launch Lightroom.

    Problem is gone until next reboot.

     

    This leeds me to believe that it is an OSX and EHD problem. You can do something  before launching the effected program and it resolves the issue.

     

    In Google searching, I found other 3rd party programs (non-Adobe) having the same unresolved issue.

     
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    Dec 18, 2011 2:32 PM   in reply to mathewlewis

    ... as I wrote, I can reproduce the issue by using LR's "Move & Import" on a bunch of pictures/folders to move them from my Desktop to an external HD

     

    the first fix you posted (creating a folder from within LR etc.) works, the one here above doesn't :-/

     

     

    only have this issue in LR!

     
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    Dec 18, 2011 2:46 PM   in reply to mathewlewis

    thank you mathewlewis, first quick'n'easy fix that worked for me!! finally some relief.

     
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