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Vepp
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Use DPS to create selling tools

Jul 26, 2011 4:04 AM

Hi!

 

Our agency just created our first digital magazine using DPS and we think it worked well. Now we want to know if we can use DPS to create selling tools for our clients? Creating the selling tool is no problem but we down know how to distribute them to our client? Is it possible? If not we would probably choose to just use html and a browser instead. But that would be a shame when DPS is a great tool and i think there are many agencies out there wanting to create selling tools for their clients.

 

Kind regards //Viktor Ekelund

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 4:24 AM   in reply to Vepp

    What's a 'selling tool', Viktor?

     

    Ali

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 5:07 AM   in reply to Vepp

    Hi Viktor

    Are you also thinking the the sales tool would not be available in the App Store?

    If so perhaps you could create the App for adHoc use, get all the UDID's of the ipads that are to be used

    (if not too many) and create a single issue App, and deliver that way.

     

    Cheers

    Alistair

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 6:51 AM   in reply to Vepp

    This is PRECISELY the scenario in which abandoning all possibilities of sideloading was an utterly foolish move.

     

    My God.  The short sightedness is staggering.

     

    Getting the UDIDs of a half dozen iPads is one thing, but in my world we've got HUNDREDS of people in the field with iPads - and more adopting the platform each month.   With sideloading it all would have been so simple:

     

    I create a new brochure, make the folio available on one of our servers, the salespeople grab and load into iTunes and sync.

     

    It's mindnumbingly, stupifyingly simple.

     

    As it stands now, people are HATING HATING HATING having to sign up at acrobat.com.  I still have to manually handle all that crap, so rolling out this program hasn't even remotely happened yet..because Adobe has literally tied the hands of everyone who actually *gasp* doesn't want to publish Conde Nast magazines, lol.

     

    For now I'm simply focusing on interactive PDFs, and sending those out.  Even that is a PITA because iBooks doesn't really handle the interactivity and not everyone wants to grab GoodReader.

     

    Honestly, Adobe:  why aren't you thinking this crap through to other applications and uses besides magazines and subscriptions?  Why aren't you developing some serious and easy methods for businesses to use DPS to create in-house sales and promo materials and tech manuals and whatnot?  Is it all about the money you're making on the DPS servers?  lol.

     

    Tell you what:  If you bring back sideloading as a viable option for distributing folios privately, we'll be willing to pay your highest DSP rate.  It's that important.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 7:17 AM   in reply to landrvr1

    Sideloading isn't coming back but that Adobe is working on way to locally load folios. Patience is going to be required.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 7:26 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    Can anyone locally load the folios?

     

    Maybe it's my lack of patience in reading posts, but it's been my understanding that a local load will only be possible FROM InDesign in order to test.

     

    ?

     

    If so, we're no further in terms of expanding DPS beyond the extremely small world of magazine publishing.

     

    If not, I take back every mean thing I've just said about Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 12:15 PM   in reply to Vepp

    Last I heard was not to expect anything until the end of the summer.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 2:17 PM   in reply to Vepp
    function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

    Vepp wrote:

     

    Bob, do you know if a solution will be out this year? We are currently discussing if we should teach more employees the basics in DPS. But if there isnt a solution for distributing applications directly to our clients I think we will go for PDF and HTML.

     

    I don´t think that there is a big future for DPS when it comes to creating magazines. The market is small and it is getting colder. But i know for a fact that alot of clients ask for selling tools for the iPad. And I think the situation is the same for alot of agencies all over the world.

     

    //Viktor

     

    Exactly right about magazines.  Goodness.  It's a totally dying industry that most likely isn't going to be saved via DPS, lol.  In fact, would love any evidence at all of subscription/profit increase due to digital versions of content.

     

    http://www.designnine.com/news/content/digital-magazine-subscriptions- going-or-going-down 

     

    http://www.wwd.com/media-news/fashion-memopad/memo-pad-magazines-not-t hat-app-y-3409693

     

    Now, startup/local magazines and newspapers?  Different story.  However, we'll never know because of the *relatively* high cost of the Adobe DPS service for organizations that are barely surviving as it is...

     

    Which.....of course.....leads us right back to a market that absolutely would explode if Adobe cared enough to serve it:  Private corporations and their PLETHORA of in-house sales/promo material.

     

    Fact: Our company has, as it's clients, more than half of the Fortune 500 corporations.  Every single one of them is making commitments to radically reducing their own paper usage, and pushing hard for digital solutions and content.  It's gotten to the point when many of them are insisting that we submit our own documents and proposals electronically and not printed.

     

    Fact:  The increase in iPad usage with nearly ALL of our clients has exploded.  6 months ago enterprise IT groups across the globe balked at the notion of bringing iPads into their environments.  Our own IT group laughed at the notion, and then quickly followed up with (but we've got our eye on Android tablets.  Much better!)  lol.  Oh, how the tide has shifted.  Now when we meet with clients and/or visit their spaces, there are iPads everywhere.  Our company is rapidly adopting them as well.  Androids?  No where to be found.  I've not seen 1 enterprise client with any significant Android rollout.

     

    Fact: Businesses, while adopting iPads at an ever growing level, are STRUGGLING to find the right content delivery system.  PDFs are, by far, the most popular delivery platform for in-house material.  But even the interactive PDFs don't feature the full, rich interactivity of DPS content.

     

    I know I'm constantly beating this dead horse, but I don't care.  I love Adobe.  I want them to succeed.   I'm simply going to keep ******** about this until they recognize that they are missing out on a massive market.  Until then, at least I've got my interactive PDFs.

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 2:26 PM   in reply to landrvr1

    Can you imagine being a salesperson at XYZ company and you get your first iPad.

     

    You've got a nice new DPS app on that puppy, and you've just grabbed your first bit of content.

     

    A short time later, more content is delivered by your IT or marketing group and you've got tons of great brochures to show clients.

     

    No more giant 3-ring binders to lug around.  No more laptop crap.  It's all there on a magical device. 

     

    You've got a presentation coming up and you plug in your HDMI cable and mirror the app and give a great presentation.

     

    It's all there, Adobe.  Waiting for you.  A vast market that's looking for digital content that's EASY to use and implement.

     

    adhoc distribution is neither easy nor convenient.

    acrobat.com is neither easy nor convenient.

     

    Just sayin.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 3:21 PM   in reply to landrvr1

    landrvr1: You know the type of presentations your constantly going on and on and on about (im sure im not the only one growing tired of your soapbox rants) are memory hogs.. the ipad isn't a computer. I had a job applicant that did his interview presentation recently with an Ipad, when i asked for a copy of the presentation to review, he sadly replied "sorry im on an ipad... it doesn't do that".

     

    If your so big on doing presentations use keynote? or one of the other plenty presentation applications.

     

    PS.  FACT: Anyone that works for "more than half of the fortune 500 corporations"  that constantly uses 'smilies' and "LOL" should really be fired.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 3:44 PM   in reply to JoyceCMYK

    @Joyce

     

    Honestly, you're endless cheerleading for Adobe and DPS is what's tiresome.  I can't find a single post of yours in which you are even remotely sympathetic to anyone trying to achieve something that isn't part of the Party Line.  In fact, most of the time you just insult people.  Congrats on that.

     

    A bit of perspective is certainly in order..as well as some actual knowledge of what the iPad can and cannot do.  It's quite clear you have no idea what you're talking about.  I've created a very comprehensive folio for the Adobe Content Viewer app that contains 8 articles packed full of multiple pages of images, video, 2 image sequences, etc.  Hasn't taxed my 1st gen iPad one bit.  So...eh...whatever.  On the iPad2?  I probably haven't even begun to create something that would tax the platform's power.

     

    My advice is to get a tad more knowledgable about the platform and it's capabilities before spouting off.  Just a suggestion.

     

    Oh, and before I forget.

     

    lol and

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 4:00 PM   in reply to landrvr1

    My cheerleading for Adobe? wait isn't this a forum for Adobe? ok just checking.

     

    I stand by my statement.  If you have the need to contaminant every thread with "bring me back sideloading" and "i want this DPS to be made for me" attitude why not save yourself the trouble and find a solution that better fits your needs?  If not,  live with the solution and fill out a feature request form.

     

    I think Bob has mentioned it previously its very hard to take you seriously with the "LOL" and "smilies"

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 4:13 PM   in reply to JoyceCMYK

    meh.

     

    By 'contaminate' do you mean posting in threads in which the issue has already been mentioned?  Guilty.  Show me where I'm either starting new threads or just randomly adding sideloading rants in threads that have nothing to do with the issue.  You can't, because it doesn't happen.

     

    A solution that better fits my needs?  Or at least fills an adequate short-term solution?   I've mentioned it: interactive PDFs.

     

    And it's not just 'my needs'.  Plenty of others have voiced the same goals:  Create in-house, private content that can be distributed without using the current DPS subscription method, or the wretched acrobat.com method.

     

    This forum should be used for dissension as well as help and praise.  LOLs and Smileys notwithstanding.

     

    Here's a thought:  If you're sensing that another sideloading thread or comment is about to appear on your screen....switch to another thread?

     

    Contaminate every thread.  Oh my.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 5:13 PM   in reply to landrvr1

    Cool it, people or I'll lock this thread and any others where this type of behavior continues.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 5:18 PM   in reply to Bob Levine

    +1 to Bob.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 5:59 PM   in reply to Vepp

    Fair enough, Bob.

     

    But my earlier question still remains:  Is the local load feature only going to be possible from InDesign itself?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 26, 2011 6:04 PM   in reply to landrvr1

    I don't know. Like I said earlier...have some patience.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 2:15 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    I'm confused. I thought it was possible to create private solutions through the Enterprise level DPS and then publish them through iTunes' Enterprise channels. Perhaps I got that wrong.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 2:20 AM   in reply to Vepp

    Ah Thanks Joyce and Lndrvr, was reading your comments whilst walking the dog at 6.30am, most amusing.

    Anyway, I have to agree with Joyce, more or less. I think using DPS to create a sales presentation is over the top.

    The iPad becomes "magical" when all of its hardware features are used to some degree, ie shake, tilt, etc, integrating

    the latest HTML5 techniques to make the content really shine, ie rubbing one image out to reveal another, 360 spins

    even scrolling text.

    Now clearly, if all these things can go in to a sales tool, then wow, you have an amazing product to sell, and fair enough

    I guess it would make a stunning presentation. But I would have thought that a really good keynote presentation, would be way better

    than the average boring death by powerpoint. You really just have to be creative, and good design always beats fancy gizmo's.

     

    As for a new "sideloading" feature, it sounds like some kind of new feature is on it's way. Adobe cant do it all at once.

     

    Keep up the healthy debates!!

     

    Cheers Guys

     

    Alistair

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 2:45 AM   in reply to David Cooke

    @David cooke-- you are correct the enterprise level does allow you to create private solutions using the Enterprise channels of itunes connect.  The new viewer builder also lets you sideload with development builds.  But i think landrvr1 stated his case previously that his Fortune 500 contacts do not want to invest money for a  solution that isn't hosted on their own servers.  

     

    @mobly Very good statement-- i think the big push is to create enriched interactive experiences for a target user.  As with any user experience its a balancing act to creative something innovated without overwhelming the user.  I think using all the "magic" ,as you put it, into a presentation would not only cheapen it but also overwhelm the target user.   I also agree with Joyce that there are more "targeted" solutions/products that cater to the realm of presentation and catalogs but i also don't blame people for wanting to find ways of using this amazing product in their workflow's. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 6:26 AM   in reply to Vepp

    There's no difference whatsoever in creating a magazine using DPS that features rich interactive content and a promotional brochure featuring a new line of tractors that a company would like to put into the hands of salespeople and/or potential buyers.  That same promo brochure could easily be tweaked to include slightly less text and more imagery and become a totally viable presentation piece.

     

    The beauty of InDesign and DPS is that you now - arguably for the first time ever - have the ability to create MULTIPLE deliverable platforms using more or less the same InDesign file/template.  You can now create a piece for print, a piece for interactive PDF, and a piece for the iPad app all in one fell swoop.  This means that having to crack open PowerPoint or Keynote to create a separate piece for presentations isn't necessary.  It's all about simplifying and streamlining and, indeed, standardizing the workflow.  One platform = multiple deliverables.

     

    If all you're creating is magazines, then I get how this might be a challenge to understand.  We aren't trying to replace PowerPoint or Keynote; those tools will always have their place for certain kinds of presentations.  In many threads I've run across that seems to be the overriding response when someone like me comes along:  "DPS AND INDESIGN ARE NOT POWERPOINT/FLASH/ETC!"  There's almost anger there, and I just don't understand that mentality at all.  With the addition of interactivity tools to InDesign, the floodgates opened.  That was a good thing.  Traditional print designers and magazine creators almost seem to feel threatened and challenged by anything outside of those realms.

     

    Regardless of one's feelings on how InDesign/DPS should or shouldn't be used, the fact remains that it's being used in any number of creative ways.  While I respect a point of view that says "Maybe these aren't great for creating presentations", we're out here doing just that.  It's not a debate.  We're doing it, and..at least with interactive PDFs - it's working, and working beautifully.

     

    No, the real issue and debate is still content delivery if using the DPS route.  If you guys say Adobe is working on something, then I have to believe you.  However, I'm almost certain that what little info was posted on this forum about the solution indicated that it's for testing purposes only.  That only I will be able to send a folio to my iPad - which doesn't help the distribution challenges.

     

    Anyway, I'll continue to operate in the interactive PDF arena for now and keep an eye out for developments here.  Who knows?  Maybe new features like image sequencing and proper overlays will make their way into the PDF side of things and I may never need DPS.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2011 6:45 AM   in reply to landrvr1

    Hi Landrvr

    yea I hear what you are saying about reusing the same content, thats a huge part of my business, and I'm not a magazine producer.

    However I'm going to stick to what I said before. You have to create content for the target audience, and when they will be looking at the content.

    My impression of a sales tool, is something that is presented to an audience, more than one, therefore I would design something completely different

    from a brochure, and it would also be landscape not portrait, but maybe you are repurposing for more of a one to one sales pitch, where maybe you could get away with a highly interactive version of the brochure.

     

    However, in my experience, the best user experience someone can get is when they are holding and controlling the iPad, and not when it is being demonstrated or presented to. In fact when I demo my iPad content to people they are normally trying to grab it off me! So if you are in a sales pitch with it, and you lose control of the presentation, it could potentially drift away from you - sales presentations are about being in control of your audience, unless ofcourse you are selling them an iPad!

     

    So I am 100% behind using DPS for repurposing print artwork for anything, as long as it is appropriate for the job, and in my opinion, you shouldn't be using DPS for things that other applications have been specifically design for, (but I'm sure you will agree with that)

     

    Anyway, it's really hard to comment, when we don't really know what you are creating, whatever you are doing, I'm sure it looks great, and if makes you money and the clients are happy that's all that matters, I'm sure in the fullness of time you will get what you want!

     

    Cheers

    Alistair

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2011 1:21 PM   in reply to JoyceCMYK

    "landrvr1: You know the type of presentations your constantly going on and on and on about (im sure im not the only one growing tired of your soapbox rants) are memory hogs.. the ipad isn't a computer. I had a job applicant that did his interview presentation recently with an Ipad, when i asked for a copy of the presentation to review, he sadly replied "sorry im on an ipad... it doesn't do that"."

     

    I don't tink your applicant knew how to use his iPad then. There are plenty of apps that could have shared that file to you. He just didn't come prepared.

     

    The iPad IS a computer. The iPad 2 has more horsepower than half the laptops in my building. (Throw a barb about how outdated we are, we deserve it. But it's our reality.) I can build a presentation with custom HTML 5 pages on every page and video and audio clips on every other page, have it 30 pages long and be less than 100 megs. Do the math of how many of those could fit on a 32 gig iPad. Lots.

     

    As Landrvr1 does, we also want DSP for things such as a presentation solution. In fact, I'm building a one off right now. It doubles as a capabilities presentation of what our clients publication could potentially do.

     

    We walk in, connect the iPad to 60 inch TV via hdmi, and give the presentation while holding the tablet. We've done it, the clients love it. The novelty might die in a few years, but by that measure, power point is a rotting corpse. ^_^

     

    Adobe says something's in the works and it sounds like it'll be soon for delivery. I won't be upset anymore about the issue until more details emerge and I can take another look then on what's been made available. I feel Adobe is working to push updates quickly on this so I've just decided to keep my yap shut for a couple months. Here's hoping for a closed and open solution to live concurrently down the road. :-)

     

    "PS.  FACT: Anyone that works for "more than half of the fortune 500 corporations"  that constantly uses 'smilies' and "LOL" should really be fired."

     

    That's really no better than an LOL. It's probably worse.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2011 1:32 PM   in reply to chirpieguy

    Chirpieguy Did you not read the Community Moderators request to end that line of conversation? Your last little comment seems like your trying to throw more gas on the fire.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2011 1:35 PM   in reply to David Ben

    Apologies.

     

    I guess I have to follow this with a dumb question... where's the edit button for that post? Does it disappear after a while?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2011 1:58 PM   in reply to chirpieguy

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/416484?tstart=30

     

    From the admin text:

     

    "Editing is not available if someone has replied to your  message. At that point, you have to add a new reply to the thread with the  updated information."

     

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2011 2:01 PM   in reply to Vepp

    @ chirpieguy

    Well, I hope you don't delete the bulk of your post because I think it's a good one.  Just delete the end. 

     

     

    @ mobly

    While I get what you're saying, our sales tools are used in a variety of ways.  We've been moving towards standardizing on printed material that is in landscape format, so a move towards an iPad or tablet platform makes sense in that respect and won't increase work along those lines.

     

    If the presentation/sales tool is designed right, it should be able to be presented in a one-on-one 'elevator speech' type setting or in front of a large group; which is exactly what we've been doing with the interactive PDFs.  They are brilliant in the respect of covering many scenarios, and that's how I'd see the DPS format as well.  chirpieguy has it exactly right, and we have also done presentations in the same way:  Create the document, plug in the iPad to via HDMI into an overhead projector port and MAGIC HAPPENS.  heh.

     

    The other thing is that sales people are looking for ANY EXCUSE to not have to lug their laptops around anymore.  I can't emphasize this enough, and we hear it constantly.  Whipping out a laptop over an initial meet and greet lunch meeting with an important new client is okay, but the iPad is better. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2011 4:17 PM   in reply to landrvr1

    landrvr1 its funny how you and chirpieguy refer the product as "DSP" Are you very similar? Great minds must think alike.

     

    I always enjoy hearing other ways people are using product.  I have to agree with Mobly and Ben that there is a target audience in anything you create.  If you are creating presentations that YOU are giving then it is a little more understandable but not if your distributing them to clients.  If that is how you use the product more power to you! Maybe that P should be Presentation and less Publishing?

     

    As far as the comments toward me? well ill take them as constructive as possible, but most of the things i have said have been said previously by several 'respected' memeber's of the community.  I do apologize if they seemed less than constructive.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2011 9:19 AM   in reply to JoyceCMYK

    "landrvr1 its funny how you and chirpieguy refer the product as "DSP" Are you very similar?"

     

    Apologies, I'm an audio nut and an oft used phrase digital signal processing is referred to as DSP. I type it a hundred times a month over at AVS Forum and my brain crossed a wire.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2011 4:45 AM   in reply to Vepp

    Are you referring to local loading of folios? If so, I'm afraid I haven't heard anything new.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2011 4:55 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    This may be just stupidity on my part but is it not possible to have this as an optional feature? It seems to me that some clients don't want it at all (people who are generating folios for paid distribution) and some who do (generally people who want to make freely distributed material).

     

    Is there some way that it could be offered as an option even at a subscription level?

     

    I know that my company has to now consider alternative distribution models, not just for this reason, but it's certainly a big factor.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2011 5:05 AM   in reply to David Cooke

    Note: I am not an Adobe employee so take this for what it's worth.

     

    Adobe is well aware that there is a gap in their DPS offerings. I think patience would be the key here and I would be surprised if that gap wasn't filled sometime in the foreseeable future.

     

    In the mean time, a paid Acrobat.com account will allow you to provide .folios to anyone with an iPad and the content viewer.

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2011 10:52 AM   in reply to Bob Levine

    Bob you wrote:

    "In the mean time, a paid Acrobat.com account will allow you to provide .folios to anyone with an iPad and the content viewer."

     

    Where is this information? I have not found this yet.

     

    I have cs5.5 and inDesign. It lets me create 1 folio, if I do not have a DPS license. Are you saying I can make my 1 folio availble to the public, somehow, using my paid Acrobat.com account?

     

    Please elaborate. Much appreciated

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2011 10:56 AM   in reply to em2744
    function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

    em2744 wrote:

     

    Bob you wrote:

    "In the mean time, a paid Acrobat.com account will allow you to provide .folios to anyone with an iPad and the content viewer."

     

    Where is this information? I have not found this yet.

     

    I have cs5.5 and inDesign. It lets me create 1 folio, if I do not have a DPS license. Are you saying I can make my 1 folio availble to the public, somehow, using my paid Acrobat.com account?

     

    Please elaborate. Much appreciated

     

    Here, check this out:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/889195?tstart=0

     
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