Adobe Community: Closed Captions in CS5.5

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Closed Captions in CS5.5

Aug 30, 2011 2:06 PM

I need to find out from someone who knows exactly what ALL the capabilities are of CS5.5 Closed Captioning. the blog and few other pages i have read have been fairly vague.

The only thing i know for sure is that i can attach a .scc file to a sequence and enable viewing in my program monitor and that worked when i tested it.

What else does it do? can i then export the sequence out to an mpeg or xdcam mxf file with the captions intact? are they line 21 608 captions for SD exports? are they digital 708 captions for HD exports? can i record them to tape? DV? SDI? (I have an Axio card with SDI output)

If i Export them does the display setting need to be enabled to be exported?

Can i capture video with 608 captions and see them decoded in my program monitor during playback? Then export back out to tape or encode as a file with captions intact?

If i import an XDCAM HD MXF file with 708 captions and export it back out after editing are they going to remain intact?

We are a tapeless broadcaster and would prefer to be able to handle everything within our normal file based workflow. We normally render out mpeg files from premiere for our seachange broadcast server for all of our SD channels, and we render out MXF files for our Snell HD server.

I have been trying to experiment with all of this for a few days and have not had much luck other then viewing the .scc file.

thanks!

5626 Views 26 Replies Latest reply: jason agoglia, Dec 5, 2012 8:13 PM

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1. Todd_Kopriva,

Aug 30, 2011 3:50 PM in reply to digitlman

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This post answers some of your questions.

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2. digitlman,

Aug 31, 2011 5:31 AM in reply to Todd_Kopriva

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function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

Todd_Kopriva wrote:

This post answers some of your questions.

Thanks Todd, but as i said in my post i have already read the blog page and it doesn't say much other then what i already know which is i can attach a .scc and see it in my program monitor. I was really hoping for a more elaborate response detailing ALL of the exact capabilities of getting video in and out of premiere with captions intact for a real broadcast environment.

thanks

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3. digitlman,

Aug 31, 2011 10:33 AM in reply to digitlman

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I am trying everything i can and just can't seem to get any captions out of premiere. I have even recorded from our broadcast server to a tape and played its captions back fine, then captured the tape into premiere, i can still see the line21 in premiere if i move the video down. but when i export that timeline out to an mpg or mxf file and bring it back in to premiere line21 is wiped out, and of course those files dont play with captions on our broadcast server either.

I desperately need to get edited video with captions intact out of premiere and playable on our broadcast server.

thanks

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4. Todd_Kopriva,

Aug 31, 2011 10:40 AM in reply to digitlman

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As the article linked to above says, you need specific hardware to write the closed captions out.

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5. digitlman,

Aug 31, 2011 1:38 PM in reply to Todd_Kopriva

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I have hardware output to play out SDI video with captions and it works fine. That is not my concern. I want to export my timeline to a file and not lose the line 21 captions. I have tried exporting to mpeg and mxf and premiere is erasing line21, this should not happen. here is a pic of my original captured file and the exported file brought back into premiere.

Now you see it, now you dont, i cant think of any reason why that caption line at the top should be erased by premiere when exporting to a file. (this is also the question asked and not answered at the bottom of the blog page)

If premiere can't retain CC then adobe is effectively eliminating the entire broadcast market from it's customer base as CC is required by the FCC.

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6. joe bloe premiere,

Aug 31, 2011 4:50 PM in reply to digitlman

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CC is required by the FCC.

FCC does not mandate CC on ads. I don't do long form
broadcast programming, but I think you are right about that.
If I need it done in special circumstances, I have the
digital delivery service do it (in my case DGFastchannel).
I'm not sure if they deliver the captioned ads digitally,
or if they lay to tape and send overnight... I suspect the latter.

That said, I am interested to know if encoding a digital file
with CC info is possible via any third-party program.
I think with Premiere, hardware to tape might be the only option.

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7. Mr. Dorsoduro,

Sep 1, 2011 4:38 AM in reply to digitlman

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Digitlman,

Let me summarize what Premiere Pro CS5.5 can and cannot do regarding closed captioning:

Can:
Attach .scc (StandardDef CEA-608) and .mcc (HiDef CEA-708) caption data files to a sequence.
Embed CEA-608 caption data into DV frames out to a DV deck, TV or media converter connected via FireWire.
Provide CEA-608 and CEA-708 caption data via a new SDK API to 3rd party drivers for embedding into a stream during playback, scrubbing, etc.
Convert on the fly from CEA-608 to CEA-708, or the reverse, depending on the source format, and the destination.
Decode most all streams from either CEA-608 or CEA-708 captions in the Program Monitor.
Decode and draw caption data via a new SDK API for 3rd parties.

Cannot:
Extract and import captioning data from imported clips.
Embed caption data into exported clips.
Decode CEA-608 XDS packets.
Allow the user to create closed captions directly.

I could continue but the first two of the cannot list are the most relevant for you. The emphasis for CS5.5 was the decoding, displaying and playing back of closed captions.

Sincerely,
Jerry Scoggins
Sr. Computer Scientist
Adobe Premiere Pro

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8. digitlman,

Sep 1, 2011 6:23 AM in reply to joe bloe premiere

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joe bloe premiere wrote:

CC is required by the FCC.

FCC does not mandate CC on ads. I don't do long form
broadcast programming, but I think you are right about that.
If I need it done in special circumstances, I have the
digital delivery service do it (in my case DGFastchannel).
I'm not sure if they deliver the captioned ads digitally,
or if they lay to tape and send overnight... I suspect the latter.

That said, I am interested to know if encoding a digital file
with CC info is possible via any third-party program.
I think with Premiere, hardware to tape might be the only option.
Yes i know, i am not dealing with ads, just normal TV shows that have and require CC.

It depends on the broadcast server as far as how it receives files and can handle them, We use a Seachange BML for SD channels and Snell ICE for HD.

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9. digitlman,

Sep 1, 2011 6:51 AM in reply to Mr. Dorsoduro

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Mr. Dorsoduro wrote:

Digitlman,

Let me summarize what Premiere Pro CS5.5 can and cannot do regarding closed captioning:

Can:
Attach .scc (StandardDef CEA-608) and .mcc (HiDef CEA-708) caption data files to a sequence.
Embed CEA-608 caption data into DV frames out to a DV deck, TV or media converter connected via FireWire.
Provide CEA-608 and CEA-708 caption data via a new SDK API to 3rd party drivers for embedding into a stream during playback, scrubbing, etc.
Convert on the fly from CEA-608 to CEA-708, or the reverse, depending on the source format, and the destination.
Decode most all streams from either CEA-608 or CEA-708 captions in the Program Monitor.
Decode and draw caption data via a new SDK API for 3rd parties.

Cannot:
Extract and import captioning data from imported clips.
Embed caption data into exported clips.
Decode CEA-608 XDS packets.
Allow the user to create closed captions directly.

I could continue but the first two of the cannot list are the most relevant for you. The emphasis for CS5.5 was the decoding, displaying and playing back of closed captions.

Sincerely,
Jerry Scoggins
Sr. Computer Scientist
Adobe Premiere Pro
Thank you very much for your detailed report, this is the kind of response i was hoping for!

Sorry to be a pest but i do still need a slight clarification on the two aspects of editing with captions in premiere.

The first is the new ability in 5.5 to attach .scc or .mcc captions to a sequence and the capabilities of outputing and exporting those captions.
If i use another program to create a .scc file and attach it to a sequence, then what are my options for printing that to a tape or exporting it to a file and having the captions intact?

The second is the ability to ingest from tape or import a file that already has visible line21 608 captions on it. (like the picture i posted previously)
In this situation how does premeire retain those captions and what are my options for printing that to a tape or exporting it to a file and having the captions intact?

The last more difficult option is what if we have a SD file with visible line21 608 captions and we want to upconvert it to HD 1920x1080 and add ears on the sides, can we retain the captions in the HD file output? (MXF preferably) You say 5.5 will convert from 608 to 708, does that apply to this situation?

If that does not then could we extract the captions with other software and attach that .scc to the sequence and then export the 1080i XDCAM HD MXF file with captions intact for our broadcast server?

fyi: we have Matrox Axio LE cards in our editors and i have put a clip in with line21 608 captions and played out realtime SDI to our Snell server and it passed through the captions just fine.

thanks!

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10. Mr. Dorsoduro,

Sep 1, 2011 5:17 PM in reply to digitlman

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Digitlman,

I'll attempt to answer your specific questions:

If i use another program to create a .scc file and attach it to a sequence, then what are my options for printing that to a tape or exporting it to a file and having the captions intact?

You can print to tape two ways.
1. By connecting a FireWire cable to your computer, connect the other end to a DV deck, DV camera, or MediaConverter (Sony DVMC-DA1 like device) to other recorder (Betacam) and then crash record. It's only standard def, and not terrible accurate.
2. Purchase a product from one of the 3rd party vendors that can embed and output the caption data via SDI or HD-SDI. Todd posted this link, http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2011/04/closed-captions-in- adobe-premiere-pro-cs5-5.html , that listed some vendors, perhaps there are more now, or an updated driver for your Matrox Axio? I don't know off hand, and I would suggest calling Matrox or browsing their web page for updated drivers.

In Premiere Pro CS5.5 there is no way to export to a file and maintain the caption data from the source media, or from a sequence. As I say that, there is possible one exception, but probably not of use. If a user imports a DV clip, and exports it as DV (perhaps trimmed or metadata added) it should still contain caption data, as we'll copy the compressed frames instead of recompressing which will result in a reduction in quality.

The second is the ability to ingest from tape or import a file that already has visible line21 608 captions on it. (like the picture i posted previously)
In this situation how does premeire retain those captions and what are my options for printing that to a tape or exporting it to a file and having the captions intact?

Premiere Pro CS5.5 does not decode captions from imported or captured media. The caption data from imported or captured clips is not retained during export or print to tape.
The last more difficult option is what if we have a SD file with visible line21 608 captions and we want to upconvert it to HD 1920x1080 and add ears on the sides, can we retain the captions in the HD file output? (MXF preferably) You say 5.5 will convert from 608 to 708, does that apply to this situation?

I believe this has been answered above, but no. Premiere Pro CS5.5 doesn't decode line 21 caption data, nor embed into the exported HD file. The 608 to 708 conversion code is currently used when printing to tape, but could be used for future features.

If that does not then could we extract the captions with other software and attach that .scc to the sequence and then export the 1080i XDCAM HD MXF file with captions intact for our broadcast server?

Yes and no. You could extract the caption data from line 21 with a variety of tools, and then attach that to a sequence. But the export would have to be via print to tape, not file export.

fyi: we have Matrox Axio LE cards in our editors and i have put a clip in with line21 608 captions and played out realtime SDI to our Snell server and it passed through the captions just fine.

That is good to here.

Sincerely,
Jerry Scoggins
Sr. Computer Scientist
Adobe Premiere Pro

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11. cavisto,

Feb 6, 2012 8:52 AM in reply to Mr. Dorsoduro

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What is the point of having the ability to import closed captioning into premiere if you cannot export your video to a file and retain the CC?
This seems like a huge mistake by adobe, they are infact leaving out a huge community of professional broadcasters by doing this. Export to tape? Really? All major stations and cable head ends want and are using video servers, with digital files. And yes anything long form needs CC or you will get a fine from the FCC, cable systems and high powered broadcasters now all check to see if the CC is present, if it is not, they will not even touch your video. It's that simple.
So basically the moment you bring a file into Premiere or even the Media Encoder you loose the CC data when you try to export.
I am sorry but that is unexceptable.

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12. jhewett66,

Feb 21, 2012 12:50 PM in reply to cavisto

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Yes, that makes this the wrong product for editing anything other than a 30 second spot. Are there any plans to add this capability? If not, I'll put on my programmer hat and write something that will work.

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13. CaptioningSales,

Mar 8, 2012 12:46 PM in reply to Mr. Dorsoduro

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Let me summarize what Premiere Pro CS5.5 can and cannot do regarding closed captioning

Does that mean that something like Adobe Media Encoder could output to a digital file? Is there any Adobe product that can take the video file and the captioning file and marry them into one file?

Essentially, I am looking to do the same thing, take the movie file and make the captioning file stick to it without having to send it to a DV Deck, etc. Our end product should be a video file with closed captioning on it.

If there is no Adobe product that will do that, is there third party software that does? I'm waiting to hear back from BlackMagic about this as well, and MOTU is the other listed in the threads that get reposted. I can't find a phone number to call MOTU and ask.

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14. John_Munoz,

Mar 25, 2012 3:55 PM in reply to cavisto

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I feel your frustration. I've been trying to apease our local station who wants one video file with the cc data embeded within the file. They don't want tape, they don't want a seperate mcc/scc file.. just a single usb drive with a single file on it. I've spent all month trying to get Sony Vegas Pro to do this.. no luck.. Final Cut Pro.. no luck.. Now Adobe has let me down as well.
So far the only possibliy remedy would be an external program (http://cpcweb.com/) $5000 for the software.

We've come so far in bringing everything up to HD standards and spent alot of time any money doing it.. now the only thing keeping our long form program from running is this one issue.

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15. cadeeee,

Jun 16, 2012 2:04 PM in reply to John_Munoz

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if you have old version of compressor (that came with fcp7)...
export from premiere or ame, then bring that file into compressor where you can add the scc file and compress to your desired format/codec

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16. jason agoglia,

Sep 5, 2012 9:58 AM in reply to joe bloe premiere

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HI,

I see your post about Closed captioning in CS5. I am looking into a new workflow with closed captioning incorporating HD SDI and XDCAM.

My company is called On The Spot Media. We are a competitor to DG Fast Channel with better pricing. We have the ability to CC in several differnt ways. We also have over 8,000 station online and specialize in digital delivery. We are full HD compatible and can reach any station and distribute in any format.

please let us know if we can help or work together

Jason Agoglia
On The Spot Media
917 546 9299

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17. CaptioningSales,

Sep 5, 2012 10:00 AM in reply to jason agoglia

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Hi!

That would be super amazing awesome, I have a potential client in Hawaii that might be interested in something like this. Can you give me more information or can we set up a time to talk?

Sincerely,

Jenny M. Carson

Captioning Sales Director

Account Executive

U.S. Captioning Company, Inc.

Phone: (920) 338-9201

Fax: (920) 338-9202

<http://www.uscaptioning.com> www.uscaptioning.com

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18. jason agoglia,

Sep 5, 2012 10:05 AM in reply to CaptioningSales

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Hi jenny,

I would love to. I can provide you a dealer rate card for you to use with
your clients and explain to you our services and what we are capable of. I
am the QC manager here and directly involved with operations. Would you
like to call me at this number 917 546 9299. you can ask for me and the
receptionist will come find me. Looking forward to learning about your
company as well!

Jason A

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19. CaptioningSales,

Sep 5, 2012 10:13 AM in reply to jason agoglia

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Hi!

The number you gave me comes up as “no longer in service” and it is the number on your website as well. Perhaps you have a different phone number that I can reach you at?

Sincerely,

Jenny M. Carson

Captioning Sales Director

Account Executive

U.S. Captioning Company, Inc.

Phone: (920) 338-9201

Fax: (920) 338-9202

<http://www.uscaptioning.com> www.uscaptioning.com

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20. Jim_at_GBC,

Dec 5, 2012 12:26 PM in reply to Mr. Dorsoduro

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Is this also the case with CS6? I have a CCd file that i need to break down into smaller chunks but it strips the captioning out.

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21. CaptioningSales,

Dec 5, 2012 12:37 PM in reply to Jim_at_GBC

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Hi Jim!

From what I’ve been told, you can’t edit a captioning file without using a software like MacCaptions. Especially in something like CS5, the video file and the captioning file are NOT stuck together, they just run simultaneously. So if you alter the video, the captioning file doesn’t get cut with it. At least, that is my understanding of it and what I’ve been told. If anyone knows differently I have no issue being wrong J

Sincerely,

Jenny M. Carson

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22. John_Munoz,

Dec 5, 2012 12:45 PM in reply to CaptioningSales

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The only program i've been able to let me edit, import captions and render a completed file that the network can re-air sucessfully has been Sony Vegas Pro. Version 11 has some great captioning tools. Otherwise you may be stuck delivering tape or seperate files and hope the station can combine them on their VR.

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23. jason agoglia,

Dec 5, 2012 3:14 PM in reply to John_Munoz

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Hi John,

I have been working with Sony Vegas pro 11 for a little while and just
started testing with the available captioning tools. I want to create this
new workflow for my company. We have an sd/hd caption encoder that we use
to embed captions into video currently. My goal is to create the caption
scc file with Vegas and using our evertz cc encoder to encode it. I will
also want to render complete cc files as well.

Here's my question

I am currently looking for help using the CC tools in SVP 11. Any advice on
how to adjust placement and fonts of captions? And also getting the first
caption to be paint on is a weird problem as the codes just don't work. I
can mot seem to get paint on captions to appear in the preview window. Any
thoughts on the best way to learn and manipulate the SVP 11 "creative
" Caption tools?

Thanks

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24. Kevin Monahan,

Dec 5, 2012 3:56 PM in reply to digitlman

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Please make feature requests for how you'd like to see Premiere Pro work with closed captions: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

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25. John_Munoz,

Dec 5, 2012 7:42 PM in reply to jason agoglia

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Hi Jason,
Although SVP has some powerful caption tools, it's not very effective in creating captions from scratch. In our work flow, we create a draft quality video, email the file to our caption service, they transcribe and it and create an SCC file, then we import it back into our video editing software and render the final high quality video for broadcast with captions embedded.

It sounds like you could probably use an SCC creating program. That would give you the ability to chose your placement region, text color, style, etc. Although you could do it with the SVP and the 608 codes directly, that would be really gruesome.

If you really want to make your own captions ask google for SCC Caption Creators. Then import your SCC into Premier, SVP or what ever NLE your using.

I can help you if you need specific help with SVP, my email is munozj@abundant-grace.com

The service we use for making our SCC files is ccmaker.com They have been the most affordable, and quickest turnaround i was able to find. Been on the air since March with no problems.

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26. jason agoglia,

Dec 5, 2012 8:13 PM in reply to John_Munoz

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Hi John,

I have been working with Sony Vegas pro 11 for a little while and just
started testing with the available captioning tools. I want to create this
new workflow for my company. We have an sd/hd caption encoder that we use
to embed captions into video currently. My goal is to create the caption
scc file with Vegas and using our evertz cc encoder to encode it. I will
also want to render complete cc files as well.

Here's my question

I am currently looking for help using the CC tools in SVP 11. Any advice on
how to adjust placement and fonts of captions? And also getting the first
caption to be paint on is a weird problem as the codes just don't work. I
can mot seem to get paint on captions to appear in the preview window. Any
thoughts on the best way to learn and manipulate the SVP 11 "creative
" Caption tools?

Thanks

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