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A Proper Monitoring Solution

Sep 9, 2011 6:01 PM

If you are frustrated by the current state of PP's monitoring capabilities, I encourage you to Copy/Paste the following into the Feature Request Form.  Let's all band together and finally get this much needed feature DONE!

 

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

 

 

 

Any professional will tell you that an NLE needs an outside monitoring solution - for proper interlaced viewing, for color corrections, etc.  Premiere Pro has in the past handled this job by passing it off to third parties like Matrox, AJA and Black Magic.  But all of those solutions have their own issues and limitations (not to mention additional costs), and their time is at an end.  The modern day graphics cards already installed in many NLE workstations are more than capable of stepping into the role.  It's way past time Premiere Pro had a proper monitoring solution, without third party hardware or codecs.  Here is what is needed and wanted:

 

1. Any graphics card with appropriate capabilities should work.

2. Premiere Pro (and After Effects, Photoshop, Encore) need to tap directly into the video port on that graphics card, be it composite, component, S-video or HDMI.

3. There is to be NO cloning or extending of the desktop.  If Adobe apps are closed, nothing is sent out of the port.

4. For the Thumbnail and Source monitor, a signal matching the clip is to be sent to the video port on the card without alteration.  Ports that cannot handle such a signal will get black.  (i.e. Sending an HD signal to a composite port.)

5. For the Program Monitor, a signal matching the Sequence Properties (resolution, frame rate, field order, PAR, etc.) must be sent to the video port on the card.  All scaling, deinterlacing, frame blending, pulldown insertion, etc. required to conform the footage in the sequence to the sequence settings must be done before sending the signal to the port, so that only a signal matching the sequence is output by the card, regardless of what's actually in the sequence.

 

Items 4 and 5 define what is  "proper monitoring", and all third party cards should be doing this  now.  (If they're not, Adobe needs to jump on them to get it right.)   Items 1 through 3 define the new feature we want and need from Adobe and  Premiere Pro.


 
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2011 5:13 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Thanks for the succinct post on this lingering deficiency.

    With the inclusion of SDI out, it's perfect for me.

    If you are frustrated by the current state of PP's monitoring capabilities, I encourage you to Copy/Paste the following into the Feature Request Form.  Let's all band together and finally get this much needed feature DONE!

     

    https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

     

     

     

    Any professional will tell you that an NLE needs an outside monitoring solution - for proper interlaced viewing, for color corrections, etc.  Premiere Pro has in the past handled this job by passing it off to third parties like Matrox, AJA and Black Magic.  But all of those solutions have their own issues and limitations (not to mention additional costs), and their time is at an end.  The modern day graphics cards already installed in many NLE workstations are more than capable of stepping into the role.  It's way past time Premiere Pro had a proper monitoring solution, without third party hardware or codecs.  Here is what is needed and wanted:

     

    1. Any graphics card with appropriate capabilities should work.

    2. Premiere Pro (and After Effects, Photoshop, Encore) need to tap directly into the video port on that graphics card, be it composite, component, S-video, SDI or HDMI.

    3. There is to be NO cloning or extending of the desktop.  If Adobe apps are closed, nothing is sent out of the port.

    4. For the Thumbnail and Source monitor, a signal matching the clip is to be sent to the video port on the card without alteration.  Ports that cannot handle such a signal will get black.  (i.e. Sending an HD signal to a composite port.)

    5. For the Program Monitor, a signal matching the Sequence Properties (resolution, frame rate, field order, PAR, etc.) must be sent to the video port on the card.  All scaling, deinterlacing, frame blending, pulldown insertion, etc. required to conform the footage in the sequence to the sequence settings must be done before sending the signal to the port, so that only a signal matching the sequence is output by the card, regardless of what's actually in the sequence.

     

    Items 4 and 5 define what is  "proper monitoring", and all third party cards should be doing this  now.  (If they're not, Adobe needs to jump on them to get it right.)   Items 1 through 3 define the new feature we want and need from Adobe and  Premiere Pro.

     

    Thank you for reading.

     

    Feature Request

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
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    Sep 7, 2011 5:31 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Uh, oh... an error message in the form:

    Issue description can not exceed 2000 characters!

     
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    Sep 7, 2011 5:43 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Jim's whole post was under 400 wrods; what the heck did you ask for?

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2011 5:56 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    Maybe a jive error?

     

    I have tried five times to copy and paste the original post from:

    "Any professional..."

    through

    "Thank you for reading."

     

    I keep getting the error.

     
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    Sep 7, 2011 6:20 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I copied the same part except for the "thank you for reading." Form took it with no problem.

     

    Try pasting what you are doing into notepad and see if there is anything extra being copied.

     
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    Sep 7, 2011 8:42 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Pc only. I beleive part of a 3 card solution.

     

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_sdi_output_us.html

     
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  • Jon-M-Spear
    969 posts
    Jan 27, 2006
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    Sep 7, 2011 11:27 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    Include me in!  Feature request submitted.

     

    ...ensuring that 1080p 25 is supported  - which it is currently not via a BM Intensity series of cards.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 9, 2011 7:56 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Everyone who is interested in a proper monitoring solution

    for Premiere should copy and paste this feature request.

     

    Any professional will tell you that an NLE needs an outside monitoring
    solution - for proper interlaced viewing, for color corrections, etc.
    Premiere Pro has in the past handled this job by passing it off to
    third parties like Matrox, AJA and Black Magic.  But all of those
    solutions have their own issues and limitations (not to mention
    additional costs), and their time is at an end.  The modern day
    graphics cards already installed in many NLE workstations are
    more than capable of stepping into the role.  It's way past time
    Premiere Pro had a proper monitoring solution, without
    third party hardware or codecs.  Here is what is needed and wanted:

     

    1. Any graphics card with appropriate capabilities should work.

     

    2. Premiere Pro (and After Effects, Photoshop, Encore) need to tap
    directly into the video port on that graphics card, be it composite,
    component, S-video, SDI or HDMI.

     

    3. There is to be NO cloning or extending of the desktop.
    If Adobe apps are closed, nothing is sent out of the port.

     

    4. For the Thumbnail and Source monitor, a signal matching the
    clip is to be sent to the video port on the card without alteration.
    Ports that cannot handle such a signal will get black.
    (i.e. Sending an HD signal to a composite port.)

     

    5. For the Program Monitor, a signal matching the Sequence Properties
    (resolution, frame rate, field order, PAR, etc.) must be sent to the video
    port on the card.  All scaling, deinterlacing, frame blending,
    pulldown insertion, etc. required to conform the footage in the
    sequence to the sequence settings must be done before sending
    the signal to the port, so that only a signal matching the sequence
    is output by the card, regardless of what's actually in the sequence.

     

    Items 4 and 5 define what is  "proper monitoring", and all third party
    cards should be doing this  now.  (If they're not, Adobe needs to jump
    on them to get it right.)   Items 1 through 3 define the new feature
    we want and need from Adobe and  Premiere Pro.

     

    Feature Request

     
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    Sep 9, 2011 9:10 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    +1 for this reason:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/882562?tstart=0

     

    Just tried and failed with the >2000 characters message - maybe if we keep this thread alive maybe somebody from Adobe might pop over to comment but I'm in agreement with all of this - after getting my fingers really burnt with Matrox hardware I want to keep third party hardware out unless there is a *really* good reason not to.

     

    Silly thing is the feature as it stands so *nearly* works as it is.

     
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    Sep 9, 2011 9:43 AM   in reply to sacha_G

    Sacha, just delete the thank you line at the bottom and it will be accepted. I had the same problem.

     
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    Sep 9, 2011 6:02 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    > It's too bad I can't edit the original post to remove that.

     

     

    I just edited it for you.

     
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    Sep 9, 2011 7:29 PM   in reply to Jim Simon
    5. For the Program Monitor, a signal matching the Sequence Properties (resolution, frame rate, field order, PAR, etc.) must be sent to the video port on the card.  All scaling, deinterlacing, frame blending, pulldown insertion, etc

     

    Thank goodness for third party monitoring solutions, because PPro is the last app i'd count on for any of this...

     

    Problem is, that there's so many different outputs, formats, and reasons for monitoring, that by the time these are factored into a video card, you'll be paying just as much as an AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox etc.....

     

    Plus, if you're ingesting different formats, many people prefer to use a universal captureconvert codec for their hardware exports.

     

    Here's an interesting read..
    I'm not telling you what you already don't know, but workflows vary for everybody.....

     
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    Sep 10, 2011 6:37 AM   in reply to Jim Simon
    PPro is the last app i'd count on for any of this...

     

    Why?  It's doing it now for export.

     

    Yes it is....But i find PPro deinterlacing and resizing interlaced footage the most overlooked export feature.

    Third party hardware solutions usually fix this..

     

    In fact, i found PPro's fix for this quite insulting...A flyout on the right hand side? Really?

    Actually, i should be blaming AME for this, but PPro's deinterlacing options are basic at best.

    Seriously, to do a properly scale out interlaced footage would require a proper plugin or separate dialogue box altogether...

     
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    Sep 10, 2011 4:10 PM   in reply to Jim Simon
    What version are you using Pijetro?  I believe many of your concerns have been resolved in 5.5.

     

    I'm still on CS4.0.

     

    But essentially, Adobe hasn't addressed interlacing and downrezzing issues.
    Once i've seen an effects folder with different deinterlacing options, then i'll believe it.

     

    Again, read my link, and if you're working with progressive footage, as the article states, and you've got a proper monitor, then PPro is already running what you need.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 12, 2011 4:32 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I have been able to successfully copy and paste the feature request from
    the original post without any error by scrolling up in the submission form
    window and removing all of the empty lines.

     

    Feature Request

     
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    Sep 15, 2011 3:18 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I've submitted the original feature request to Adobe as well, so Jim, thanks for putting it together for us.  I also encountered the >2000 character error but it disappeared after the last line was edited out.

     

    I know I asked this already in another thread, but for purposes of this one, it would be great if you could post a description of the signal pipeline through Premiere CS5.5 as it currently exists (to the extent that you know it).  Comparing playback of a clip through Premiere (playing back via an external device connected via, say, HDMI) against playback of that clip directly into that same device using something like Windows Media Player in full-screen mode, suggests that Premiere CS5.5 is rescaling the image internally in the playback process.  Obviously I would expect it to rescale anything that needed it, but if you have a 1920x1080 sequence and you put 1920x1080 clips in it and (with no effects added) play that into a 1920x1080 monitor, no rescaling should occur.

     

    What's ACTUALLY happening?

     

    Pete

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
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    Sep 16, 2011 3:55 PM   in reply to PeteGould
    I've submitted the original feature request to Adobe...

    Thank you for taking the time to post this feature request.


    The details of this deficiency have been discussed
    in a number of threads since the release of CS5.
    You might find some insights to your questions here:

     

    CS5 can not output MPE to external DV device
    CS5.5 & External Monitoring - is there anything new?
    Firewire output of Hardware MPE - I give up
    Who's it gonna be?

     
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    Oct 12, 2011 7:46 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I submitted the feature request - no problems doing so. Keeping fingers crossed...

     
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    Oct 13, 2011 12:40 AM   in reply to FamilyLegacyVideo

    Submitted.

     
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    Oct 22, 2011 9:32 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Submitted, too.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 22, 2011 2:15 PM   in reply to spreeni

    Every time I see a new post on this thread, my cockles are warmed.

     
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    Oct 22, 2011 3:09 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Joe, Jim and All,

     

    It's unfortunate that we don't see a representative of Adobe here, indicating that they take this issue seriously.  From what I can see, there is no way to use an HDMI pipeline out of Premiere to do even the most basic color correction, even of clips that will be used only on the web (except the most-of-the-time workaround I mentioned previously).

     

    What can we do to get their attention?  I put a lot of money into configuring a compatible system using an Adobe-specified graphics card and I feel we should have been told up-front about this problem and their lack of evident commitment to resolving it.

     

    Peter

     
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    Oct 22, 2011 6:22 PM   in reply to PeteGould

    Peter, you must be new to the forum. Otherwise you would be aware there are several Adobe folks that monitor and participate . At his point the only way to get a realiable signal for professional grade monitors and output to tape is through the various manufacturers (AJA, Matrox ,BM) hardware.. I cant comment on specifics being under NDA (not for Adobe ) but I know that they are aware and working on the issue. At this point it is a joint effort, not just Adobes responibilities. And those manufacterers have lots of other products to attend to. We have their attention, and they are taking it very seriously, but not all issues can be solved right at the moment you need it done.

     
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    Oct 22, 2011 6:41 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    Hello lasvideo,

     

    No, not new to the forum - or to editing (started in the mid-1980s and moved to nonlinear in 1993) or to this issue.  Former Avid editor transplanted to Premiere about a year ago and for the most part I like what I see, but as someone who makes my entire living from video editing there are certain absolutes.  One is that if you use the hardware the software vendor tells you to use, what comes out of the video spigot must look like what will end up in the output file.  When that doesn't happen it's not a trivial issue.  For the kind of work I'm doing at the moment we're not even talking about professional monitors and tape output - we're talking about an HDMI monitor and the fact that what Premiere sends to that monitor is different from what will go to that same monitor when the finished file is played from disk.  With that kind of an issue in play I would normally expect the manufacturer of the software to be very up-front and frank about what the problem is, what is being done to address it and how long it is expected to take to fix it.  When I first found this thread back in September (having suffered with this problem for many months already) I saw that the thread started in April and referred to the issue as "longstanding."  If it was a longstanding issue in April, considering that this is late October, wouldn't you agree that we who use the software to make our livings are entitled to a little feedback from the company about what they're doing to address it?

     

    Peter

     
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    Oct 22, 2011 6:56 PM   in reply to PeteGould

    I understand your position, coming from a very similar background (CMX editor in the 80's / Avid DS in the 90's and PrP about 3 months after abandoning FCP).  It is a very big issue for those of us used to working in a professional environment that demands a client monitor and / or output to digital tape for long form. I dont work for Adobe, but I know it is their policy not to give any specific completion dates for software issues. Obviously its a big concern to them since they are aware of its importance to many of us through these forums. I would hazard a guess that its a challenging nut to crack or else it would have been done. Complaining and sending in feature requests is really all we can do, short of switching to another platform. And currently Avid still hasnt started to support the Kona 3 (my hardware) that I know of. Those are our choices at the moment...pick one  .

     
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    Oct 22, 2011 8:35 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Hi Jim,

     

    I've always wondered why we take it for granted that for the software to do what it's supposed to do, we're supposed to consider it a "new feature."  I'd like to try that with my own client base sometime - give them a video in which the music track drowns out the dialogue, or skin tones are bright blue, or the lower thirds contain obvious spelling errors, and then tell them that in order to get the video I had originally told them they would be getting, it's a new feature and they'll have to pay extra for it.

     

    Look, I'm delighted to pay extra for capabilities I didn't bargain for the first time, and it's great when they show up.  But here we're talking about basic functionality, not a new feature.  If I buy a new car and it won't shift out of second, I don't care how great the sound system is or that the GPS knows how to find Indian restaurants.  I need the car to shift out of second.  And I don't consider it a new feature and I don't frankly care if the manufacturer would rather develop new features than fix the broken transmission.

     

    This really is much the same thing.  There's a basic part of the software that's broken.

     

    What really concerns me is that I see relatively few postings to this message thread, and I think Adobe could interpret that as a lack of interest in getting this fixed.  I'd hate to see it shuffled to the bottom of the deck just because not enough people know how to chalenge it.

     

    Peter

     
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