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Your disk copy of image was changed since last opened or saved (Mac OS)

Jan 3, 2012 12:33 PM

  Latest reply: Chris Cox, Oct 21, 2012 1:00 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 8:20 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    I don't use Suitcase and it was still happened here. Not convinced that's

    the bug. Also working all locally.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 9:35 PM   in reply to BlueRox

    First, you need to try disabling suitcase to see if it is the cause.  Then we can talk to the makers of suitcase to get their bug fixed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 9:36 PM   in reply to joseph_is

    joseph - yes, there could be other causes, but we need your help to figure out what is causing it on your machine.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 10:16 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris - A few things that might help: 1) I'm using dropbox, but do not have

    any Ps files running off it. 2) I've been running Spotify. I quit the

    program and haven't noticed the disk copy warning since. 3) I've been

    heavily using and updating smart objects between Ai and Ps. I noticed most

    occurrences if the disk copy warning on those days of back and forth between

    programs.

     

    Should I run some tests using Spotify?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 28, 2011 11:46 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Like I posted earlier I have the exact same issue in Photoshop, I've never used Suitecase though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2011 3:56 AM   in reply to Erik De Monsters

    And i don't use Spotify either. Never did used it or installed it.

    Next, i don't use ps files betweine Adobe programs. Just in bridge/photoshop and i still have the issue

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2011 7:29 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    It's odd, because the Suitcase update Steve recommended appeared to have fixed the problem until several days later when working on Photoshop files from another source, problem recurred. However, only got prompt once on each Ps file and InDesign was not affected, as it had been earlier.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 1:23 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris, you have got to be the least helpful company rep on a forum that I have ever seen. First of all, your comment "If it were really widespread, we would have seen it ourselves, or heard about it from more customers" is wrong on so many levels. A) If you haven't seen all of the errors that Photoshop responds to, then your development team is not doing their job designing their testing rigs. B) It should only take one unhappy customer for you to want to help and make changes when necessary. There is no magic "well, when enough people complain, we'll look into it," number. That's a lazy excuse.

     

    I work at a commercial photography studio with about 12 seats of PS, and we have all encountered these errors. We have a range of Mac Pro towers from 2008-2011, some machines work from a server, and several work exclusively on local files. I haven't posted on the forums until now because I'd already seen how unhelpful you are, and looked elsewhere for help. Today was just the last straw.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 3:12 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    James - please read the entire thread before responding.  Your insults are completely off base.

     

    We have looked into this problem. We've spent a lot of time on this, and found nothing except a third party plugin bug. We've suggested things to look for, asked for more information, and so far not received any information to reproduce problem or isolate the cause.

     

    And yes, if it was a widespread problem, we would be hearing from a lot more people.  We've been developing this software for a while, and know how the customer response differs between rare and widespread problems.

     

    If you are seeing this problem on several of your systems, you need to answer: what is different about those systems from a clean OS install and a clean Photoshop install?  Why are those machines different from the machines of the millions of users who are not seeing this problem?  Many users say "nothing", until they remember that plugin, or utility, or OS setting, or haxie, or whatever actually caused the problem.

     

    Yes, we'd love to help every customer solve their problems.  And for problems we can identify in some way - we help.  But if the problem only happens on a few machines, and we can't reproduce it, and the customer can't help us figure out how to reproduce it -- then we're stuck.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 3:46 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    I read the entire thread, I simply chose to hit reply on one of your earliest and least useful responses.

     

    To give you more insight into our machines... As I stated before, we have a range of machines. All of them, at one point, were fresh clean installs. And most of them, during troubleshooting at one time or another have had clean OS installs, and clean CS installs. Of course, they're all different in some way-- different users, different models, etc. But no one at the studio really uses any plugins, no Extensis Suitcase, etc. What we do use are pretty standard Mac OS features, like Time Machine.

     

    Several of our users (our retouching department) work from a server, which of course, you don't bother trying to support AT ALL. I understand that there are a zillion variables in server deployments, but at some point you really need to face the fact that your high-end users work on servers and working locally is a ridiculous proposition for an efficient workflow, as well as a nightmare for asset management.

     

    Furthermore, our users (our photographers, mainly) who work mostly on local drives run into these errors as well. The reason I was troubleshooting today was because of a fresh install of CS5 (albeit not a fresh OSX install, but honestly, do you expect me to reinstall the OS for every CS upgrade? Not happening). The photographer was working on a local file, and consistently getting the 'file changed' errors. The only other processes running on his system were basic OS operations (mds, time machine).

     

    The basic problem I have with your methods is you seem to think that PS seeing the file change and reporting it is a 'good enough' feature. But it's not. If Photoshop sees that change, why can't it determine what changed it and decide whether it's a problem or not? What is happening in practice is that your alert system is crying wolf all day long for things that are probably completely innocuous. And I do not accept your defense of 'something else is doing that, it's not our problem.' It's lazy. Try harder.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 5:03 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    When Photoshop sees that the time stamp is changed - it has no other information. The OS provides information about the file, but nothing about the history of changes to the file.

     

    So we're telling you that we found a potential problem, and we're telling you everything we know about it. The OS simply doesn't provide more information (at least not without major modification).

    And the application can't determine if that is a problem or not.  Maybe it's harmless (backup software, Suitcase, server time offset), and maybe it's a problem (virus, other user) -- the application has no way of knowing that. The user has to determine what happened to know if the time difference is a problem or not.

     

    We've done our part of the troubleshooting.  I'm telling you what we found, and what we have to assume is the cause: something outside of Photoshop. So far there is no evidence that the problem is in Photoshop itself.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 5:15 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    Thanks James, you are right. Maybe they need some fresh horses  ....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2011 6:31 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    First, you certainly have not done your part, because your users are angry, and because what you call good programming and good error reporting your users see as a problem. And even if there aren't a million of us complaining (which is a ludicrous way to gauge your problems, by the way), we've still spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on your software over the years and we deserve tom have our problem addressed wholeheartedly.

     

    Next, if you are telling me that backup software can be causing these errors (even Time Machine, which is integrated into the Mac OS you write your code for? Shame on you), you have FAR from done your part. Because you're basically telling me that to fix my problem I have to disable one of the features that is actually doing it's part to keep my files safe in order to let your software (which has no idea what its reporting) work smoother. That tells me you're not doing your job well at all.

     

    Finally, have you even considered that your way of handling saves and reporting time stamp changes is a fundamentally flawed system? I don't understand why it hasn't sunk in that there are hundreds of other pro-grade applications (from databases to 3D modeling software to OTHER PHOTO EDITING SOFTWARE) that NEVER show these kinds of messages, NEVER corrupt files and even work flawlessly on servers. Don't tell me that their software is inferior because they are overlooking potential problems.

     

    I'm calling you out, Chris. Step up your game.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 1, 2011 10:21 AM   in reply to caligula1

    I just thought that I would chime in here as I only just started having this problem myself. I get the error message when working in Photoshop with no other programs running on my machine. Also, if I save a file and leave it open in Photoshop overnight and then come back to it and hit the hot keys to save, I do not get this message. It only happens if I am actively editing the file in question. In my mind, this means that it has nothing to do with the system because why would the system behave differently depending on whether or not I am actively editing a file?

     

    Oh and I should add that I do not use Time Machine. I have never used it on this machine and it is "Off" in my System Preferences with no destination drive selected for it. It simply doesn't run on the machine that I am using and never has. I backup directly to a rugged LaCie drive using SuperDuper!.

     

    I am using a 2.66 GHz Intel Core i7 Macbook Pro with Lion and Adobe Photoshop CS5 Extended v 12.0 x 64. This started happening within the last week and I'm wondering if it has something to do with upgrading to Lion as this is the first I've used Photoshop since upgrading.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 1, 2011 11:13 AM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    No matter how much money you spend on a car -- the car maker can't do anything about the quality of the roads you choose to drive on.

     

    The Photoshop team has spent quite a bit of time on this issue, and found nothing in our code, and so far nothing in the OS.

    All we've found are external causes (plugins, server bugs, etc.).

     

    I understand that you're unhappy.  But the problem does not seem to be in Photoshop itself, and we can only fix Photoshop.  We've done our part (really, we've gone far beyond our part trying to help track down the causes).   And we can't even reproduce the problem without external factors known to have bugs in them.

     

    <sarcasm>

    And yes, we have wondered why we bother with so much error checking when some customers complain that Photoshop actually informs them about real problems.  It would be so much easier to ignore the problems and just hope your documents don't get overwritten or corrupted, and might sometimes save without errors.  I mean, imagine how much easier it would be building airplanes if you didn't have to worry about safety, comfort, or any of that "surviving the trip" stuff.

    </sarcasm>

     

    Yes, OSes have bugs.  And many times application developers can't work around those bugs in the OS and have to wait for the OS developers to fix the bugs in the OS.  If some part of the OS has bugs that get in the way of your work - yes, you may have to turn off that part of the OS, or ask the OS developer to fix the bugs.

     

    If you want us to do more research, then we need a way to reproduce the problem.  That means that you are going to have to do some troubleshooting on your system (one of the few that sees the problem) and tell everyone else what is different about your system that makes the problem happen.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 5:19 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    I often see that the get info via Bridge/PS for the created date is not the same as what the OS (10.6.8) get info shows. I haven't noticed any variation in the modified date. Where does PS pull the timestamp from?

     

    thanks

     

    j

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 6:40 AM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    james_mckenzie wrote:

     

    ...I'm calling you out, Chris. Step up your game.

    I'm calling you out, James.

     

    Have you considered posting your log as Caligula1 did in post 61? Were you truly interested in giving full details about your problem?

     

    Chris is blind to your machine until you show it. Show it if you have game.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 6:54 AM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    You're all going off like a bunch of school kids and I understand the frustration of both sides. The fact is, for no reason other than having switched over to Mac OS Lion, I'm getting the aforementioned message that we are all harping about on 2 of my Macs. My third Mac, which is still in Tiger system does not ignite that message to the very same files that are doing it on the Lion Macs. Not one update other than Lion has been made on either of my Macs.

     

    Instead of yelling at each other, maybe Apple and Adobe can speak to each other and iron this out. In the meantime, please can the condescension and, at least, recognize that the problem is occurring.

     

    This is what we, as innocent users who have no ability to correct the errors, are seeing:

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 7:02 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Car makers also don't say things like "we don't support driving on a highway, you should drive on local roads only" either. So a bad analogy all around, I'd say.

     

    The big problem here is that the error message does the user no good. He sees it and says "nope, I didn't change that file" and ignores the message. Which is, in a practical sense, exactly as good as a false positive, because he becomes conditioned to ignore the error message. Furthermore, Photoshop doesn't even know if it's a problem, it's just seeing a difference in a timestamp, right?

     

    I understand the reluctance to remove that error message. You're afraid that if you do, people will start having more corrupt files, and you no longer have an "I told you so" to throw in their face. You act like it's really coming from a place of "hey, we're just trying to protect you." But it's not. You're just covering your own neck.

     

    How about adding another filter to the timestamp game? If Photoshop detects a timestamp change AND the filesize is different, THEN you can give me a message...

    How about a secret file save operation? When you detect that change, why don't you (not warn us) save a copy of it anyway, and if the save operation works, that becomes the new file.

    All I want to see is uninterrupted saves. I'm not asking for a cure for cancer.

     

    I've got a way to reproduce the problem. Come hang out at our studio for a day.

     

    In the meantime, what particular logs would you like to see to help either reproduce or deduce the root of the problem? I already told one of the retouchers to let me know when he gets that error so I can get some info, but I want to make sure you have the info you think will help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 7:21 AM   in reply to eubean525

    Al, there is no yelling. No one is denying the problem. The constant message is that users need to explain what is different on their systems. Relatively few people are seeing this problem and each person has a different issue.

     

    This is not the only thread on this topic. Search the forum for similar discussions and additional remedies. This is not a Lion thing. It could have happened on your Tiger box too.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 8:52 AM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    > I've got a way to reproduce the problem.

     

    can you post your steps to recreate the problem along with specs for your computer, OS, & other open processes etc?

     

    thanks

     

    j

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 11:31 AM   in reply to - JM -

    The time stamp comes from the file (the OS time).

    Bridge is reading the time from the metadata -- which should match the OS time stamp to within a few seconds.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 11:42 AM   in reply to eubean525

    And so far, the biggest culprits seem to be bugs in third party plugins (Suitcase), external applications (InDesign), and old OS bugs (in unpatched OS builds).

     

    We've got hundreds of systems here in the office, running anywhere between clean installs and 10 years of accumulated crud, and none of them see this problem.  Millions of users run Photoshop every day, and don't see this. But a few people do.  So, there is something different about their machine: could be preferences, added utilities, added applications, file servers, added plugins, malware, etc.  We just don't know.  What we do know is that a clean OS install doesn't seem to trigger the problem, nor do common applications and utilities, and examination of the Photoshop source shows that we're getting the time checks right.  So, until we can get someone's machine to study, or get them to tell us what they added/changed to trigger the problem -- we just don't know what else might be causing this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 11:55 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    hi Chris

     

    I find the creation date to vary quite a bit between PS and the OS, often in days not seconds, but the modified date remains correct. Although I don't see it reported in seconds within either the finder or bridge/PS file info windows.

     

    I doubt that the the creation date has any bearing on the topic of this thread except that it may show that there is something "off" with the reporting of creation/modification times?

     

    regards

     

     

    j

     

     

     

    reference_39.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 1:05 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    I have said this many times.

    I did try a completely fresh install with same result ?

     

    some weeks ago i got really tired of this error/bug so i reinstalled everything from a fresh 10.6.8 install and after Photoshop CS5.5

    Same thing again. And when i saw the damn thing again. I installed Suitcase and Dropbox becouse i use it a lot. But first after i saw

    the error. So where do we go from here.

    My system is a plain Mac Pro 2008 with 16gigs of ram. A Geforce 120GT from Apple store because the standard Radeon wasn't Snow

    Leopard ready (Open CL) so i don't know what i can do more. I tried everything by now, and nothing helped.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 3:02 PM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    I doubt listing my programs will help but, in case it does, here's what I'm usually in but rarely at once:

     

    Mac OSX 10.7.1

    Photoshop CS5 V. 12.0.1 x 32 bit

    InDesign CS5 V. 7.0.2

    Illustrator CS5 15.0.0

    Suitcase Fusion 3 V. 14.1.1

    Bridge CS5 V. 4.0.0.529 As to Bridge, I never use it. It will only be opened after a accidental keystroke opens it up.

     

    The message shows up on all my Photoshop docs, now.  Sometimes, I'll move an object only or change a color variation only, then when I save, the message comes up. I can make a slight or large change within a minute after that and it might not bring that message up. Or it will. I can't decipher the sequence differences. It can be from any change made. I rarely have 2 programs open at one time other than the finder. Suitcase, obviously, is in the background but it is up to date. There are no corrupted fonts detected.

     

    This message does not occur in any other program than Photoshop.

     

    I wish I had more. I don't write code nor can I read it.

     

    Al

     

    PS. I'm on a current G5. And no DropBox.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 3:08 PM   in reply to eubean525

    Al Naclerio wrote:

     

    I doubt listing my programs will help but, in case it does, here's what I'm usually in but rarely at once:

     

    Mac OSX 10.7.1

    ...

     

    PS. I'm on a current G5. And no DropBox.

    Sorry. No. You are not on a G5 if you are running 10.6 or 10.7. This is why it is difficult for Adobe to track this issue. If only Apple had a system profiler that could export all this data more easily.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 3:13 PM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    You're right. I'm sorry. I'm on a Mac Pro at the moment.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 3:16 PM   in reply to Marian Driscoll

    Super helpful, Marian. Al pretty clearly said he's reading Greek in Codesville. Maybe you could give him a suggestion instead of simply poking fun at him.

     

    Al, it sounds like it would be helpful if you would attach a copy of your System Profiler info... Hit the Apple Menu > About this Mac and then hit the "more info" button. It will open System Profiler. Go to File > Save As and then attach the results to your next post (I'm not sure if there's a preferred file format, so I guess just use the default System Profiler 4.0 format).

     

    Also, it sounds like you're running programs that Photoshop doesn't always play nice with. Even if they're not open, they might have some background processes. To check these out, you can open Activity Monitor (Applications/Utilities). You can also save your processes to a text file to attach if you want.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 3:29 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    This is a copy of the profile information as a screen grab and as pasted copy.

     

    Mac Pro

    Processor  2.93 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon

    Memory  8 GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ECC

    Graphics  NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512 MB

    Serial Number  xxxxxxxxxx

    Software  Mac OS X Lion 10.7.1 (11B26)

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I'll check out your advise.

     

    Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 5:49 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    james_mckenzie wrote:

     

    Super helpful, Marian. Al pretty clearly said he's reading Greek in Codesville. Maybe you could give him a suggestion instead of simply poking fun at him.

    I was not poking fun at Al. I was pointing out the problem that Adobe has in trying to determine what users are using. Al is at no fault.  The average user simply cannot relay good troubleshooting info. Someone else claimed that they had disabled Dropbox but their activity log showed that it was still running. Was the user wrong or lying? No. We're just working with complex systems and users can be confused easily.

     

    A good first step to understanding what is writing to your disk is to use fs_usage.

     

    http://www.macworld.com/article/46516/2005/08/filesystemusage.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 6:00 PM   in reply to - JM -

    The creation date is different -- that really is when the document was first created.  It doesn't relate to the file times at all (because that information is lost when the file is saved again).

    The modified date is what should match the time the file was saved, and come close to the timestamp on the file itself.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 6:01 PM   in reply to MuggeGHQ

    You can't say you did a clean OS install AND have Suitcase and Dropbox installed.

    Either of those could cause the problem (and Suitcase has previously been known to cause this exact problem!).

     

    Try disabling the Suitcase Photoshop plugins.

    Heck, try disabling Suitcase entirely.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 3, 2011 6:05 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris Cox wrote:

     

    The creation date is different -- that really is when the document was first created.  It doesn't relate to the file times at all (because that information is lost when the file is saved again).

    The modified date is what should match the time the file was saved, and come close to the timestamp on the file itself.

     

    thanks!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2011 3:37 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Hi Chris.

     

    Yes. If you read my message again.

    I installed Mac OS X and Photoshop CS5.5 on a fresh install and after the error message came back,

    I then installed Suitcase and Dropbox because i use it

    So first fresh with nothing else than OS X and PS. Error did came back and first after that i again installed

    Suitcase and Dropbox, Thats what i wrote.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2011 3:43 AM   in reply to MuggeGHQ

    I have another idea.

     

    In the beginning i only had 12GB of Ram and everything was running perfect. Then one day i installed 16GB and after that

    i began to have strange system log errors ! I did test the ram, i even send them back to OWC and they also tested them and

    they where fine. Got them back and i have had 16Gigs for 2 years now.

    But i can assure you that after i switch from 12gigs to 16gigs. Something changed ??? Weird.

    It could be a Ram (memory) question ? Not that any ram is broken but the amount there is installed. I know it maybe sounds

    silly. But we have 3 Mac Pro in the studio and all 3 changed after going from 12gigs to 16gigs of ram ?

    I think the Mac or OS X or both behave differently to how much ram you have installed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2011 3:09 PM   in reply to MuggeGHQ

    The only thing that would change with the amount of RAM like that is the OS.

    But we're running machines with 4 to 32 Gig installed here for development and testing -- and still have yet to see this problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 5, 2011 11:02 PM   in reply to james_mckenzie

    Car makers also don't say things like "we don't support driving on a highway, you should drive on local roads only" either. So a bad analogy all around, I'd say.

    Aside from seeminlgy missing the point of an apt analogy your counter-argument seems debatable – or do you think Mercedes Smart Cars for example make for a great ride on a highway?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 6, 2011 5:40 PM   in reply to caligula1

    I would just like to note that Suitcase Fusion 14.1.1 appears to have all kinds of problems with CS5 and 5.5. There are some long discussions about this on the Extensis user forums. I've been having a lot of problems with Illustrator and InDesign slowing down and then freezing after some period of inactivity or system sleep, that appear to be related to the last few versions of Suitcase Fusion 3.

     
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