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any DSLRs w/o 12 minute limit?

Oct 26, 2011 12:15 PM

Tags: #dslr #limit #21 #minute #fat32

Anyone know if there are any DSLR cameras currently on the market or rumors of upcoming DSLR cameras that won't have the fat32 12 minute recording limit?

It seems like an easy work around, do they just not want to compete with themselves?

 

Thanks

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2011 2:04 PM   in reply to wolverine.ks

    I dont know about dslr stuff as I dont have one or use one.... but the ALEXA camera ( pro camera ) shooting Arri Log C has a 13 minute limit with recording to SXS 32 gig cards....and it is a pretty long time ...for most takes...

     

    that has nothing to do with fat32 etc... it is just a matter of what 32gig card can hold....

     

    if you wanna just keep shooting forever I would look at pro cameras using tape to record and again, that has nothing to do with fat32 etc...

     

    ??

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2011 2:31 PM   in reply to wolverine.ks

    For DSLR, it actually is a FAT32 limitation.  In order to keep Mac compatibility (which can't natively write to NTFS), camera makers stick to the outmoded and inferior FAT32 format for the cards.  Video cameras get around this by writing metadata that tells NLEs to 'stitch' together individual files into one long clip.  For whatever reason, a lot of DLSRs don't use this work around and simply stop the recording when the file/clip reaches 4GB.

     

    My own little fantasy is that we get Macs out of the media world (or at least relegate them to the same 8% of users as the rest of the planet).  Then keeping compatibility won't matter as much and hardware companies can start using the vastly superior NTFS.

     

    One clip, one file.  That's the goal.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2011 2:40 PM   in reply to able123

    The ALEXA must use a FAT or FAT32 formatted card.  So the 13 minutes may be a limit imposed by the data rate of the camera, but unless the camera spans files automatically, it could also be a FAT32 file size limit.  So even with the ALEXA, FAT32 is relevant.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 26, 2011 3:15 PM   in reply to Jeff Bellune

    hmmm, thats interesting...

    I think the log c is a sorta prores 422 space ( not as flat as raw but pretty flat and compressed )... I will ask what the time limit is for raw next mon when I'm back on that job...

    I know all the camera depts crews use fcp and macs and was offered some alexa footage recently ( to take home and play with ( raw so I can use the arriraw converter to get down to my mouse computer capability )... and I bought macdrive for my pc and formatted my ext graid " mac " ... so I can just bring that to work and have cam dept transfer the stuff to my drive to take home.

     

    that all worked out fine.. I can read /write to graid drive on my pc fine...but one option was fat32 also...( re: talks with videoguys and reading up on this stuff ).

     

    sorry...getting off on tangent here in thread... but will find out what I can re: if the sxs cards are in fact fat32 next monday...

    as for metadata to deal with size limits, I'm sure thats gotta be inherent in the workflow if its fat32  .. ?  I mean, the cards are used like film mags used to be... and when you have to reload, you do that... change cards... I've never seen a situation where camera needed more than 13 minute " take "  yet... and assumed that there must be a bigger sxs card than 32 gigs to deal with that.... ??  but if its fat32 related that would be a huge deficit for camera use.... hmmmm.... or maybe use the 2 card slots and just go from one to the other on same take instead of using the 2nd card as a redundant copy like we do now.... I have a lot to learn...will ask on Monday.

     

    if fat32 is 4gig limit..then the 32gig card should have 8 files on it... no matter if its raw or log c....

     

    weird stuff..

     

    this is one of the problems with this whole business... IMO... there are so many variables and workarounds and mystery...and its so hard to get access to all the cameras and test things ( and platforms ( mac or pc or others ) to see what is really going on, and "why" )...

    that said, I'm glad people here do in fact keep up with what is necessary to deal with making things that are very high quality more affordable and less mysterious...

     

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,869 posts
    May 24, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 27, 2011 3:06 PM   in reply to able123

    Not currently available, and costing about US$7,000 when it comes out next March, but the Canon 1DX can apparently manage 29 minute clips:

     

    http://community.avid.com/forums/p/101606/585308.aspx

     

    Not a perfect solution though:

    http://wideopencamera.com/cameras/why-not-to-get-the-canon-1dx-for-vid eo/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 27, 2011 6:32 PM   in reply to wolverine.ks

    Panasonic GH2

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 29, 2011 8:49 PM   in reply to shooternz

    Whoa!!!!

     

    I would likely NOT have even viewed this thread, but then I saw YOUR reply.

     

    Nice to see you around.

     

    Take care,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 8:37 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Jeff,

     

    =========

    So the 13 minutes may be a limit imposed by the data rate of the camera, but unless the camera spans files automatically, it could also be a FAT32 file size limit.

    =========

    I still dont know whats up with alexa card..but suspect that it is correct ..that is is fat32...

    But with regard to " time limit " and data rate etc... if I understand this right... its not so much a matter of " time limit" but file size limit ( 4 gig ? ).. and if an sxs card of 32gig is being used on alexa, that means like about 8 files at 4gig each, spanned automatically ( xml ? ).. I gotta call an asst cam guy I know and see if he knows whats going on...

    A lot of people doing this stuff on set dont really know all the stuff going on re: computer files  but will see if he knows about it.  At least it would explain why videoguys basically said ( re: my pc external graid formatting to get alexa raw footage from work ) " you're best off formatting it fat32 "...

    Although I did buy macdrive anyway and formatted it mac now... so at least the cam dept people could plug drive in and recognize it...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 10:36 AM   in reply to able123

    Not sure if this limitation is still in effect (say as of Mac Lion?), but at least until very recently, if an external was passed between PC and Mac, it had to be FAT-32, as the Mac OS's could not use the NTFS. Something in the back of my PC-head tells me that that limitation might have changed, or will soon. Still, with older Mac OS's, the FAT-32 for X-platform externals will still hold. Maybe someone can update my info, or at least give the full details, and any limitations faced now.

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 11:17 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I dont think mac can read ntfs. But the graid drive comes with a cd so you can easily format ntfs, fat32 or mac ...( which is 2 kinds of mac format choice, probably having to do with the OS of the mac ? ).

     

    I formatted mine the first choice of mac format and using macdrive I can read the drive on pc.

     

    Is sorta moot at this point cause the assistant camera guy who offered arri footage to me  -----

    has been on 1st unit while I've been on 2nd unit the last few weeks.

     

    I imagine, also, that the 13 min limit on the sxs 32 gig card, shooting log c, would be maybe half that if shooting arri raw .. like maybe a 6 min limit time wise.. which I would guess really has nothing to do with anything except data rate, compression ( or lack of ) and the 4gig limit of fat32 divided into the card mem size....

     

    the 32 gig cards are about $950 so I'm not gonna go buy one just to play with from work to home ( plus I would need an express34 something or other card reader )..

     

    Oh well, I do what I can when I can...can't do much else.

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 2:16 PM   in reply to wolverine.ks

    Anyone know if there are any DSLR cameras currently on the market or rumors of upcoming DSLR cameras that won't have the fat32 12 minute recording limit?

    It seems like an easy work around, do they just not want to compete with themselves?

     

    Thanks

     

    Not sure if this is exactly the answer as asked for by the O.P but ...the Panasonic GH2 DSLR can easily record more that 12 minutes.

     

    I became curious also .... so just ran a test.

     

    GH2 records  AVCHD.  My test was 24p 1080. to a 16GB SD card (Class 10)

     

    I continuosly rolled 40 minutes on  camera for 40 minutes of media. 

    That was 2 clips(spanned)    4 GB + 543 MB = 4.25GB

    SD card had over 10GB free space remaining.

     

    Camera did not even warm up.

     

    (Just passing thru' these parts  Bill)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 2:33 PM   in reply to able123

    Rod,

     

    One quick little admonition on running MacDrive on your PC. If it is set to load on boot (was the default), you might encounter some issues, when you put a DVD, or CD into your multi-drive, where the Windows OS will not see the Windows files on that disc. If the disc ONLY has PC files, it might show as empty, as there are no Mac files on it. If you run into that case (might have been changed in newer versions of MacDrive?), just go to MSCONFIG and stop MacDrive from loading at boot - just run it, when needed from the Desktop or Start.

     

    I've had MacDrive, or similar, around since about Windows 3.1 days, and first encountered the PC files on DVD issue with Windows XP-Pro, and whatever version of MacDrive I had then (seems that it was ~ 4.0?), and found the "cure," to just run the program, when I needed it.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 2:37 PM   in reply to shooternz

    yeah, that makes sense.. its not about time limit...its the 4gig limit re: fat32 and I guess bridging "clips" via xml or whatever so it doesnt stop recording at 4gig limit... and the rest is data rate and card size .. has nothing to do with " time " really...

     

    you see tearing on stuff Shooternz? I followed this when you posted. ...gh2... and read up a bit ....were tearing issues and crappy still image issues... ???  how do you like what you get ??

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 2:56 PM   in reply to able123

    No problems with my GH2.  Images are great and I see no issues anywhere.

     
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    Oct 30, 2011 3:19 PM   in reply to shooternz

    Bill,

    what happened with me ( xp pro ) and macdrive thing...is that I screwed around with the graid drive...formatted it mac ( not fat32 ) and had macdrive installed already... and could read drive OK and everything was cool... ( I think I did a reboot at some point but not a power down and reboot at that point ).

    Then I also messed around with the stuff so that I wouldnt have macdrive in my sys tray right off the bat... ( hate that stuff... you know, running stuff in background like from 'startup' thing ... dont like anything running in background if I can stop it )....

     

    Soooo, went to manage computer and so on... and stopped the service for macdrive ( from auto to disable )... and it didnt like that on reboot.. ( not power down...just reboot ).

    So I went back to auto ( dont think I tried manual )

     

    So everything seemed to be working OK.. but next morning ( power up for first time ).. I got the blue screen of death almost.. except this was an automated xp chkdsk function..and my drives were now checking for orphans etc... and I was scared... and just let it play out... after about a half hour it went through my internal drives, found orphans and corrected FAT table ( file allocation tables ).. ( even though its ntfs the fat table still exists for where files are etc ).. and recovered OK.. then I rebooted from power down.. booted OK.. then I went through a ccleaner thing, or whatever you call it... you know.. and then cleaned up what I could in general re whole machine ( browser junk etc ) and rebooted and then I did a complete defrag of all internal drives.. rebooted from power down.. and everything has been fine since then...

     

    it was scary though.

     

     

    ps.. macdrive is not on my sys tray now..only when I call it ...so I'm cool

     

    oh... one last note.. when I first bought program and downloaded via internet and tried to intall it failed several times... ( probably why chkdsk kicked in later ).. and when I complained to company re: not installing ( froze on install ).. they sent me a msi file instead... ( within an hour ..they were fast in response and fixing prob that way )..and it installed OK with msi file...

    But then I had the power up prob with chkdsk.. but that worked out OK too.. and now it works OK as I need it...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 30, 2011 3:21 PM   in reply to shooternz

    shooternz

    =========

    No problems with my GH2.  Images are great and I see no issues anywhere.

    =======

    cool... hmm... what lens you got ?? the long one ??  140 ??

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 1, 2011 1:54 PM   in reply to able123

    The Olympus 14-54 is the lens that I leave on the GH2 ... but with my other adapter ..I can use any of my many Nikkors.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 1, 2011 5:57 PM   in reply to shooternz

    hmmm, nikkors.. all I have is mamiya 6x7 stuff and 4x5...  no 35mm stuff...

     

    what does this mean ??? 4 3rds ????

    ============excerpt from website =======

    This makes the GH2 the highest resolution camera in Panasonic's Micro Four Thirds range

    ============end excerpt ==========

     

    ????

     

     
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    Nov 2, 2011 12:20 PM   in reply to able123

    Would that 4/3 apply to a 1.333" sensor?

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 2, 2011 9:49 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    this seems to answer question to some extent..

     

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=32815331

     
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