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New upgrade policy for Adobe products

Nov 15, 2011 2:30 PM

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2011 3:21 PM   in reply to Ann Bens


    We are excited to announce that membership to the Adobe Creative Cloud will be available in the first half of 2012 at a price of $49.99 per month for individuals and $69.99 per month per seat for workgroups, both for an annual plan.


    For customers who prefer to remain on the current licensing model, we will continue to offer our individual point products and Adobe Creative Suite editions as perpetual licenses. With regards to upgrades, we are changing our policy for perpetual license customers. In order to qualify for upgrade pricing when CS6 releases, customers will need to be on the latest version of our software (either CS5 or CS5.5 editions). If our customers are not yet on those versions, we’re offering a 20% discount through December 31, 2011 which will qualify them for upgrade pricing when we release CS6.



    Pretty cool !  Only $600 per year at current rate for monthly individuals ( single machine )...

    And to upgrade to new version for perpetual license ( which comes out every 18 months now ??? ) you need only the latest version.. after this coming Dec 31.


    My only worry might be ... since all this requires even MORE internet connectivity ( and security re: verifying license and so on of various versions etc ) will there be problems when the platforms experience some internet difficulties.. I think for help files you need the internet now... but to need the internet for the whole kit and caboodle ( not to mention the speed of the internet nodes being good to go at all hours etc ).. that kinda worries me a bit... if you are working on pro stuff I mean... and you can't afford problems... the introduction of another " variable" of  ... what can be wrong with this ???? It isnt working !!! ....might prove a bit hard for customers to troubleshoot.


    Otherwise, what a cool idea !



    edit.. plus.. what a great savings for Adobe... reach many more customers without need to make physical product ( dvd, cd etc.. manuals, nothing ! )

    The savings in cost could be passed onto R&D ( like maybe those recently fired 1200 adobe flash for mobile devices employees coulda kept working on something ELSE ? ! )

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2011 3:56 PM   in reply to able123

    And to upgrade to new version for perpetual license ( which comes out every 18 months now ??? ) you need only the latest version.. after this coming Dec 31.


    I read your statement to mean that the upgrade might be free. So there's no confusion:


    "In order to qualify for upgrade pricing when CS6 releases, customers will need to be on the latest version of our software (either CS5 or CS5.5 editions)."


    Since I am at CS5, it won't affect me, but this would suggest to me that the only way for a CS3 or CS4 owner to upgrade, if they don't get to CS5 before 12/31, would be to buy at full price.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2011 12:41 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    yeah, thats what it is saying...if you dont have the immediate version before update you're outta luck


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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2011 7:28 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Something to note...the Adobe Creative Cloud includes EVERYTHING that is in the Master Collection (as stated by the OP link) so that means that for $600 per year, you've got....everything. The annual upgrade to just the Production Suite will run you about $600 - if you were to upgrade every time a new version comes out - and so I'd think for a lot of people, the cloud pricing would make a lot of sense, and change your software purchases from massive once-in-a-while, do-I-have-the-money-right-now decisions to a monthly plan (with no interest charges) and you will always be on the newest version of....everything.


    Sounds like a pretty decent win-win. I have skipped 5.5, so I'm really only currently a bi-annual purchaser, so my costs will effectively double if I go with the cloud pricing. But, having it simply be a monthly charge makes the books a bit simpler for this small-time producer.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2011 7:36 PM   in reply to able123

    > yeah, thats what it is saying...if you dont have the immediate version before update you're outta luck


    That's not correct. Upgrade pricing goes back two versions: CS5 or CS5.5 in this case.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 16, 2011 7:39 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    BTW, don't skip over the currently running steep discount for upgrades, which is intended to help people to get up to a version from which the next upgrade can occur.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 21, 2011 1:48 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva


    That's not correct. Upgrade pricing goes back two versions: CS5 or CS5.5 in this case.


    I thought Adobe treated the x.1 or x.5 releases as 'half versions' - with 'some improvements but not enough to make it a significant/major release' - I see this new upgrade policy as therefore needing the previous release (be it CS5, CS5.1 or CS5.5)  A view shared by an article on web4design blog:



    I think this change to the upgrade policy for the next release will prove to be a mistake for Adobe, giving users very little notice.  Previously I have tended to miss a version and upgrade every other version (Photoshop 7, CS2 and now CS4) which has meant upgrading in 2002, 2005 and 2008 - therefore every 3 years.  I know this would not make me one of Adobe's ideal customers, but I'm a customer none the less.  It was going to be my intention to upgrade at the next release according to my previous upgrade history, however Adobe has now taken this option away from me and many other users.  I'm not a heavy user so cannot justify getting an upgrade now and again when CS6 comes out - maybe if the change in policy was published earlier it wouldn't seem as such a bitter pill to swallow - at least I would feel I could get value out of version 5 if I knew I needed to have it......  Maybe it's time to ditch.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 21, 2011 1:51 PM   in reply to tfkelly42

    > I thought Adobe treated the x.1 or x.5 releases as 'half versions' - with 'some improvements but not enough to make it a significant/major release'


    No, that's not how we see or treat these versions. CS5.5 was a major release.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 5:17 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    So Adobe has now got the small businesses completely turned over.

    No longer do they get the choice to use the product and upgrade at a sensible time

    (Adobe upgrades are notoriously expensive - so its no surprise people version jump )

    They are now being forced to upgrade now, pay out, and then do it all again in a few months time!

    or pay Adobe a guaranteed amount of cash to use the software.


    Having been an Adobe customer for years I am very unhappy with the new upgrade options.

    They are certainly not customer centric or show anything more than a mercenary approach to the userbase.


    Its now time to start looking at Apples cheaper and comparable products.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 6:37 AM   in reply to Paul_Taylor

    I actually prefer the $49/month plan if it is actually monthly...I don't mind making an annual commitment, but dropping $600 every single year is no different financially than what I currently do. Spacing out those payments would be nice for me, and I would think it would make Adobe's sales a little more consistent month-to-month. But finance isn't my specialty, so whatever it is, it is.


    The main benefit with the new program will be that you get ALL of Adobe's current Master Collection software for the one price. I think a lot of people have failed to notice that part. You also get the mobile apps. In other words, for about the same price as just upgrading the Production Premium each year, you get EVERYTHING.


    So you're one of these people who don't upgrade every single version? No problem...same here, I skipped CS5.5 and stuck with CS5 because it worked fine for me. Adobe is still going to be offering the traditional licensing, where you buy once and use it forever. I know the gripe there has to do with Adobe not continuing development on a version once the newest version is released, and that's unfortunate, but there's only so much a company can do. New versions do usually bring bug fixes that should have been there in the previous version, but they bring new functionality as well. It's a tradeoff, and it most severely impacts those customers that stick with an older version, so yes that's unfortunate, but those customers are not the majority of users out there, and Adobe cannot afford the resources and funds to support the minority of users as equally as the majority.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 7:04 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    So an Indesign CS3 or Photoshop user who is happily doing layout / photo editing for a small business now has the option to


    A) Pay out  £120 now, to upgrade to CS5.5, and no doubt pay out again when CS6 is released to keep in the program

    B) Go over to paying Adobe $49 per month for ever, whilst loosing all the investment in previous versions of the app

    (users of single apps really wont get the advantage of the suite)

    And to top that - I really don't want to be held to ransom everytime I want to use the software. I want to choose when I upgrade and spend my money.

    C) Don't pay the upgrade and pay over £1000 to purchase the full version  - well thats just not going to happen is it


    And what's the bettings that $49 converted to UKP doesnt come to £31.50 this side of the pond!

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 8:39 AM   in reply to Paul_Taylor

    You've made some assumptions that I'm not sure are correct, so I'll add my own assumptions and see if we can't muddy this up a little further.


    As for the monthly cost of using a single application such as Photoshop, I think Adobe will probably have pricing to accomodate that. Again, if we're all just drawing conclusions here, I'd assume that there will be a different price for people needing just one of the applications.


    The BIG story, of course, is the whole "pay one low price, get everything!" headline. That's the big news, and lots of people are intrigued by that. The smaller, less interesting details are yet to come, but the big announcement is the complete Adobe experience of having EVERYTHING and having it perpetully upgraded so long as you maintain your account.


    As for losing investments in previous apps, I'm really not sure what you mean at all. Anyone who currently owns Adobe software owns those licenses, they don't disappear just because there's another purchasing option available. Likewise, you can probably assume as well that you will never be FORCED to upgrade under the new subscription model just because a new version is AVAILABLE. If you are the kind of facility that has to lock down an edit machine and not touch it for a year or two or three after installation, then the subscription type plans are probably not for you, which is why Adobe will continue to offer those single seat one-time-fee license options. Still, it's not like Adobe is going to PUSH a new upgrade to your machine without you requesting it or approving it. I imagine it would work just like everything does now on a computer, where you get a prompt like "A new version of Photoshop is available (v6.061.05). Would you like to upgrade at this time?"


    All this talk about being held ransom and not having a choice about when to spend your is all very emotional but not very sensical.


    Generally speaking, it makes no sense to continue stating that a user MUST upgrade to CS5.5, then CS6, etc. Again, when you purchase the license, you have it, so the only "force" that would make you upgrade again is your own decision-making like "do I need these new features...or not?" It is beyond my understanding why people have to act like continuing to work on a piece of software and charging for those ongoing developments is some sort of crime.


    As for the pricing as it relates to currency conversion, that problem is not even remotely in Adobe's hands, so if you are trying to make it out like that's Adobe's problem, then you've got no foot to stand on. Adobe is a United States corporation, headquartered in California (one of the 50 current states in the union) and so all of their pricing and advertising and everything else starts in American dollars. Once it gets converted into the local currency of the UK (or Botswana, or Thailand or Nigeria), there are a lot of other things at play such as VAT and shipping costs (in the case where a physical product is being purhcased).


    I wish you the best of luck in determining your required future upgrade paths as they pertain to your particular business or hobby. I just think you are taking issue with something that has not yet even been fully laid out, nor has it been implemented, nor is it a "forced" policy. For many users, their purchasing choices will remain unchanged. For other users, there are now new options that better fit the way they'd prefer to spend their software dollar. As I said, good luck determining which is best for you.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 8:43 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Some comments are coming in, regarding the upgrade policies:


    The above is driected at Photoshop, from the president of the NAPP (National Association of Photoshop Professionals).



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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 9:10 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    If people don't need anything beyond Photoshop CS4 (or unless someone else develops and actual worthwhile competitor to Photoshop) then they don't need to upgrade anyway. It's not really a position that Adobe should be concerned about. People who are using the software frequently to make money are going to be able to justify the pricing one way or the other. If the last version they purchased was CS4, then they have gotten (or will have gotten, by next April) about 4 years of use out of their software. If they paid full price in 2008, then that averages about $250 a year (which is probably a lot less than they get paid for a single production in many cases). If they upgraded in 2008, then their cost ends up being more like $100 per year.


    If a user is on one of the Creative suite packages, then their costs are spread out even more, and their per year costs per application are much less, even if they only use 2 or 3 of the apps in the Creative Suite.


    I can appreciate the considerate wording from the NAPP president, which is exactly how these sorts of appeals ought to be made. But I think he is either grossly exaggerating or completely misjudging when he states that he fears many CS4 users will never upgrade Photoshop again.


    And for the record, Adobe's prices have continued to drop steadily over the last 10 years, so anyone who upgrades only every 3 or 4 years has benefitted regardless. I just think it's much ado about nothing, especially when you consider - as the NAPP president stated - that we don't really even know the full details on Adobe's upgrade policy yet.


    I don't agree with the "give us some notice" argument because Adobe has already given at LEAST 6 months notice (which is half of the product cycle) so yes, the people who might benefit the most would be folks that bought CS5.5 on the day it was announced, but they only benefitted by 6 months at the most versus those that choose to upgrade today.


    Adobe has done a better job than they get credit for when it comes to giving advance notice of pricing and policy changes. I just get tired (have you noticed?) of the arguing and bickering when Adobe has contined to listen to customers and provide products we all need at prices that are NOT outrageous. Adobe is a big company, and really doesn't need little ol' me defending them, but I think I owe them a bit of my time and effort typing these defenses after the superb job they've done for the last however many years.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 9:23 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    I'd assume that there will be a different price for people needing just one of the applications.

    OK let see


    As for losing investments in previous apps, I'm really not sure what you mean at all

    People do upgrade to enable them to keep on the upgrade/discount path

    As of Dec 31 anyone who has done that with CS4 will loose that option/investment.


    you will never be FORCED to upgrade

    You don't 'have to' but to keep with the program you 'will' have to upgrade



    Products always 'appears' to be more expensive in the UK and Europe compared to the US

    I'd like to see a full breakdown of any differential when purchasing.


    You've also got to look at it from the perspective of a user thats just shelled out over $800 upgrading the master package

    when it looks like anyone can get access to that immediately for $49



    We've had some outages here with broadband - I'd really hate to have that stop me working


    In the end - options are good. But this is looking more like Hobsons choice - only time will tell.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 9:33 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly



    I agree with you, as I have followed an almost unbroken upgrade path, since I picked up PS ver. 2.5, almost 20 years ago. Until CS2, I only skipped PS version 5.5, as I was not doing any Web work, way back then. The same with most of my other Adobe programs. The string did break, with CS 3, as I had upgraded to several of the suites, and could no longer upgrade just elements of those suites. As I was very comfortable with the capabilities of my programs, up through CS2, I skipped upgrading any of those suites, as I could not justify the additions, and also a few oft-used programs in them were having issues. When CS5 came out, I did the upgrades, and then to CS5.5. There were then reasons to do the upgrades, for me. Do not know what CS6 will offer, but I will look closely into it.


    Now, that is just for me. While I cannot say how many of those 70k NAPP members feel the same way, it appears that the president of the organization feels differently, and has probably been hearing from many of those members. As I have not been closely monitoring my NAPP e-mails (usually mostly announcing training sessions around the world), I cannot comment on how many feel as Scott Kelby does, or as you and I do. I can only guess that Kelby's phone has been ringing "off the hook," but it could just be his personal feelings, put forth in that letter.


    Being retired now, upgrades will probably get more scrutiny and justification, but that is just by me. Once, the only questions that I had were: can I work more quickly, can I add more value to the product for my clients, etc.. Now, I have to look a bit more closely, and justify more judiciously, but that is just life.


    Time will tell.



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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 9:39 AM   in reply to Paul_Taylor


    We've had some outages here with broadband - I'd really hate to have that stop me working


    That, and other similar concerns, will likely keep me from considering the Cloud/Subscription route. Though I am blessed with good Internet connectivity here, there HAVE been times, and if I were working on deadline, I would be very distressed. As it is, I have almost all of my programs on two machines, whether it's with the Adobe licenses, or purchased additional licenses, so if one machine dies, I can migrate the Project to the other, and still have two more, if I had to install & Activate on one of those. I could keep working.


    The distribution connections may well improve to the point that they are bullet-proof, or nearly so. Until then, I will probably just pay more, and get my media.


    However, for many, the subscriptions might well be a big money-saver, and highly convenient.



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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 9:48 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I have also had occasional Internet problems (telco has determined it is their "backbone" feed line problem, and street in front of my house now has a bunch of lines and cryptic markings... and we received a postcard that "someday soon" they are going to dig a trench in the street to lay a new master feed line) so would NEVER buy software that required an Internet connection to run


    Of course, CS5 completely meets my needs, and as a home hobbyist with NO plans to buy a new camera (Canon Vixia HFS100 does everything I need) I see no need to buy new software... CS5.5 doesn't offer anything **I** need, and I doubt CS6 will either

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 10:00 AM   in reply to John T Smith

    No one is saying that the Creative Suite applications will require an active Internet connection to run.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 10:37 AM   in reply to Paul_Taylor

    People who just purchased that $800 upgrade for the master collection get to use that effectively forever with not another time dropped. In 16 months, they will be able to upgrade to CS6 if they want, and have been no worse for the wear. Likewise, I would assume that most people who just now purchased CS5.5 would NOT be upgrading for another $800 in 6 months anyway (when CS6 comes out) so the whole discussion on that matter really falls apart. But even if they DID upgrade, it would cost them $800+$800 over the next 16 months as opposed to $800+$500 under the new plan. That's a savings of $300 in your scenario.


    And I think there is some misunderstanding about the cloud aspect of all this. The cloud is referring to the fact that the applications will all be downloads under that licensing plan. It's not like you'll be editing in a web-based app. You will still download the software to your machine and it won't just suddenly quit on you as soon as you lose your internet connection.


    There are some web-based apps and likely there still will be some, but that's not how the main apps will work, probably not ever, or at least many many years from now (like Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, etc). So let's just get that misunderstanding out of the way.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 10:43 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    > And I think there is some misunderstanding about the cloud aspect of all this. The cloud is referring to the fact that the applications will all be downloads under that licensing plan. It's not like you'll be editing in a web-based app. You will still download the software to your machine and it won't just suddenly quit on you as soon as you lose your internet connection.


    There are some web-based apps and likely there still will be some, but that's not how the main apps will work, probably not ever, or at least many many years from now (like Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, etc). So let's just get that misunderstanding out of the way.


    I want to reinforce what Christian just said: The "cloud" part of all this has a few aspects, but there is absolutely no requirement that you have an active Internet connection to use applications like Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Photoshop. There may be more frequent updates, web-based applications, and other additional features and services that use an active Internet connection---but the existing Creative Suite applications are not somehow being "moved into the cloud".

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 11:00 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    this is such a can of worms I certainly hope adobe does a test market of this before making it a done deal.. which could be done while ( as asked for in the letter to adobe from that photoshop guy Hunt posted ) giving people more notice about plans to go this route.


    I for one dont for a second think some problems WONT arise from not having an internet connection ( especially for pros working on location this would be a nightmare .. more than that it would probably get you fired and never work again in film production )... it could be some billing debacle ( license thing ) or simply some "handshake" thing to guarantee you are in fact licensed to use product -- instead of some pirate ....


    its bad enough having help files online instead of on hard drive... this whole new thing, in such a short time, scares the heck out of any pro..


    and here's why mostly.. if something "goes wrong" and you cant " work" ....if the program isnt working ....or something is just plain not working ....adding yet another "variable" to troubleshoot is a nightmare....


    for whatever reason.


    not only that...but in terms of the long haul and adobe employees... think about all those who will get laid off in the billing and marketing departments etc as this becomes more and more " automated "... less employees means less " support " for each other to maintain a decent retirement and healthcare insurance " pool ".  At first it's like, " Oh, this is OK, it doesnt effect ME ".. and years later it's like, " Oh, you mean there's no more retirement plan, health insurance, employee discount ??? "


    None of this makes sense to me.


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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 11:10 AM   in reply to able123

    Adobe already has internet connectivity on the creative suite's a simple handshake, and verifies your software. It's not constantly hunting for an open connection. This isn't likely to change at all. In fact, the security is much better now if the apps are downloaded "from the cloud" so security is less of a concern. I suspect that you should see less internet-related issues, NOT more of them. Like Todd said, there is absolutely no requirement that you have to have an active internet connection. Absolutely. None. There you go.


    Help files are installed on your computer by the way.


    As you stated, it of course doesn't make sense to you because you are unnecessarily complicating the issue with a myriad of concerns which have no basis in reality. If you think more simply, you would understand. Adobe does not want and does not need 1,000 different complex hooks between everything. For crying out loud, they got rid of the hardware dongle a decade ago, how much more secure could you be than that? If they really wanted to put the screws into their customers, they'd never have changed that requirement.


    Again, try to remove all the various unfounded concerns and understand that at the core, Adobe is simply moving forward with a much more modern, simple and straightforward approach to selling their software. In the longer term, it will save everybody money. As for all the support and automation problems your foresee, that's bordering on conspiracy theory so I cannot assist you with that.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 11:23 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    Christian, thank you. I am so relieved there is no need for an internet connection for all this to work out to benefit everyone. Those pro houses who dont have internet connections and who have historically not used premiere pro editing program will probably consider this new option and increase adobe's market share of the pro world.


    thanks !


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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 11:43 AM   in reply to able123

    I have to say... to be fair here... that " money" and cost of upgrades etc is not an issue with me.. when dealing with pro jobs.  I am just putting things in perspective when I say that as a key grip on some movie like batman ( not that I am the key grip.. but if I was ) my budget for "expendables " per week on the job ( wood, color correction gels, tape, beadboard, duvateen, showcard, foamcore, and so on ) would be about 10x the cost of the entire suite of adobe products and the computer ( hardware ) to do the edit on the scale you are concerned with ...


    this is not some "conspiracy theory" concern... really.. its about products that aren't hooked at all into license and billing on the internet.. period... nobody needs the headache when filming in ( and doing DIT and doing DVD dailies immediately ) locations that frankly have no piss ant internet connection concerns...


    but anyway, it is what it is here.. and thanks for the heads up about whats real.


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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 12:03 PM   in reply to able123
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    840Cardellini Clamp61$0.00$5.002vendor
    595Gaffer Grip61$0.00$2.502vendor
    597Grid Clamp 2K61$28.00$2.752vendor
    1009Grid Clamp 75066$0.00$2.002vendor
    611Maffer Clamp67$0.00$3.002vendor
    621Pipe Clamps 2K61$0.00$2.502vendor
    622Pipe Clamps 75061$0.00$2.152vendor
    839Scissor Clamp (drop ceiling)61$0.00$3.002vendor
    832Vice Grip (chain) w 750 stud61$0.00$0.002vendor
    831Vice Grip (regular) w 750 stud61$0.00$0.002vendor
    833Bead Board Holder71$0.00$3.752vendor
    596Combi Head 3 1/2" (2K)71$0.00$5.002vendor
    829Double Header 75071$0.00$2.502vendor
    834Ear Extension71$0.00$0.002vendor
    612Offset 2K71$0.00$3.502vendor
    613Offset 75071$0.00$2.502vendor
    619Pidgeon 2K71$0.00$2.502vendor
    620Pidgeon 75071$0.00$2.151Matthews
    636Sidearm 2K71$0.00$0.002vendor
    637Sidearm 75071$0.00$0.002vendor
    650T-Bone Turtle 2K71$0.00$7.502vendor
    647Triple Header 2K71$0.00$4.002vendor
    648Triple Header 75071$0.00$3.502vendor
    560Apple Box 1/281$0.00$1.502vendor
    561Apple Box 1/486$0.00$1.502vendor
    562Apple Box 1/886$0.00$1.502vendor
    563Apple Box Full81$0.00$1.502vendor
    845C-Stand 40"91$0.00$6.001Matthews
    584C-Stand 60"912$0.00$6.001Matthews
    824C-Stand 60" c+ Turtle91$0.00$6.001Matthews
    823C-Stand 60" r/m91$0.00$6.001Matthews
    585C-Stand Baby 20" Narrow91$0.00$6.002vendor
    822C-Stand Baby 20" Wide91$0.00$6.002vendor
    1010C-Stand Gobo Head96$0.00$1.502vendor
    1017C-Stand Long Arm94$0.00$2.002vendor
    635C-Stand Short Arms (2 with head)91$0.00$6.002vendor
    1013High Boy Medium Roller Stand94$0.00$7.501Matthews
    1012High Boy Medium Stand94$0.00$7.502vendor
    825High Boy Mombo Combo Stand 75"-27'96$0.00$25.001Matthews
    827High Boy Rocky Mountain Stand91$0.00$25.001Matthews
    600High Boy Stand91$0.00$8.501Matthews
    601High Boy with Wide Base Stand 91$0.00$11.001Matthews
    610Low Boy Reflector Stand91$0.00$8.501Matthews
    626Reflector Stands Alum.91$0.00$5.751Matthews
    627Reflector Stands Steel93$0.00$5.752vendor
    589Cup Blocks101$0.00$1.002vendor
    634Shims (bundle)101$0.00$15.002vendor
    655Wedges (box of 50)101$0.00$15.002vendor
    51418x24 Black Double Nets112$0.00$2.501Matthews
    51818x24 Black Single Nets111$0.00$2.252vendor
    77318x24 Cucoloris Cello111$0.00$8.002vendor
    51318x24 Cucoloris Wood111$0.00$8.002vendor
    51518x24 Empty Frame111$0.00$2.252vendor
    51618x24 Lavender111$0.00$5.002vendor
    101518x24 Metal Flag114$0.00$3.752vendor
    51718x24 Silk111$0.00$2.751Matthews
    78718x24 Silk Black111$0.00$5.002vendor
    51918x24 Solid116$0.00$3.502vendor
    78618x24 White Double Net111$0.00$3.502vendor
    77618x24 White Single Nets111$0.00$2.502vendor
    52018x48 Solid111$0.00$2.502vendor
    77718x48 Solid Floppy111$0.00$3.502vendor
    53324x36 Black Double Net111$0.00$6.002vendor
    53724x36 Black Single Net111$0.00$6.002vendor
    53124x36 Cucoloris Cello111$0.00$8.002vendor
    53224x36 Cucoloris Wood111$0.00$8.002vendor
    78924x36 Double Net White111$0.00$6.002vendor
    53424x36 Empty Frame111$0.00$6.002vendor
    53524x36 Lavender111$0.00$6.002vendor
    53624x36 Silk111$0.00$6.002vendor
    79024x36 Silk Black111$0.00$4.502vendor
    78824x36 Single Net White116$0.00$2.752vendor
    53824x36 Solid111$0.00$6.002vendor
    53924x72 Solid Meataxe111$0.00$10.002vendor
    77824x72 Solid Meataxe Floppy111$0.00$10.001Matthews
    5424x4 Black Double Net111$0.00$15.002vendor
    7934x4 Black Silk111$0.00$9.502vendor
    5464x4 Black Single Net111$0.00$15.002vendor
    5404x4 Cucoloris Cello111$0.00$15.002vendor
    5414x4 Cucoloris Wood111$0.00$15.002vendor
    7924x4 Double Net White111$0.00$8.002vendor
    5434x4 Empty Frame111$0.00$15.002vendor
    5444x4 Lavender111$0.00$9.502vendor
    10164x4 Metal Flag113$0.00$5.002vendor
    7964x4 Muslin Bleached111$0.00$15.002vendor
    7974x4 Muslin Unbleached111$0.00$15.002vendor
    5454x4 Silk111$0.00$15.002vendor
    5484x4 Solid111$0.00$15.002vendor
    5474x4 Solid Floppy111$0.00$15.002vendor
    7914x4 White Single Net111$0.00$7.002vendor
    592Dots and Fingers111$0.00$27.002vendor
    1149Shot Bags1212$0.00$3.002vendor
    8154x4 Glass Mirror131$0.00$50.002vendor
    6294x4 Reflector Gold H/S131$0.00$25.002vendor
    8134x4 Reflector Net Double131$0.00$2.502vendor
    6284x4 Reflector Net Single131$0.00$2.502vendor
    6304x4 Reflector Silver H/S131$0.00$25.002vendor
    846Rubber Mat131$0.00$3.252vendor
    633Saw Horses (set of 2)131$0.00$8.002vendor
    651Umbrella With Stand131$0.00$2.502vendor
    938J-Hanger 2K141$31.00$2.002vendor
    602J-Hanger 750141$31.00$2.002vendor
    649Trombone 750141$0.00$5.002vendor
    652Wall Hangers141$0.00$3.002vendor
    653Wall Stretchers 2x4141$0.00$9.002vendor
    654Wall Stretchers 2x6141$0.00$9.002vendor
    623Polecats Large (7'11"-14'10")151$0.00$11.001Matthews
    624Polecats Medium (4'4"-8')151$0.00$11.002vendor
    625Polecats Small (2'6"-4'5")151$0.00$6.002vendor
    603Ladders 10'161$0.00$11.002vendor
    604Ladders 12'161$0.00$13.002vendor
    605Ladders 14'161$0.00$15.002vendor
    606Ladders 4'161$0.00$5.002vendor
    607Ladders 6'161$0.00$7.002vendor
    608Ladders 8'161$0.00$9.002vendor
    609Ladders Extension 24'161$0.00$36.002vendor
    638Furniture Blankets201$0.00$3.502vendor
    558750 Double Header211$0.00$5.002vendor
    570Black Pipe 1 1/4" x 20'211$35.00$0.002vendor
    571Black Pipe Couplings (thread)211$0.00$0.002vendor
    631Candlestick (2K Riser)211$0.00$5.002vendor
    830Condor Bracket211$0.00$50.002vendor
    593Double Header 2K211$0.00$3.502vendor
    598Grip Helper211$0.00$10.002vendor
    843Pipe Aluminum 10'211$0.00$10.002vendor
    844Pipe Aluminum 20'211$0.00$20.002vendor
    841Pipe Steel 10' X 1 1/4"211$35.00$10.002vendor
    842Pipe Steel 20' X1 1/4"211$35.00$20.002vendor
    646Trapeze 2K211$0.00$0.002vendor
    828Trombone 2K211$0.00$0.002vendor
    614Parallels 4' Steel with Tops221$0.00$27.002vendor
    615Parallels 6' Steel with Tops221$0.00$27.002vendor
    616Parallels Casters (set of 4)221$0.00$14.002vendor
    618Parallels Leveling Jacks (4)221$0.00$14.002vendor
    617Parallels Safety Rails221$0.00$9.002vendor
    644Tarps (large)231$0.00$0.002vendor
    78212x12 Black Double Net244$0.00$17.002vendor
    50412x12 Black Silk 1/4246$0.00$17.001Matthews
    51112x12 Black Single Net246$0.00$9.002vendor
    50312x12 Butterfly Frame245$0.00$22.001Matthews
    50512x12 Ears (set 2)246$0.00$10.001Matthews
    78012x12 Grifflector Gold Lame246$0.00$27.002vendor
    77912x12 Grifflector Silver Lame246$0.00$27.002vendor
    50712x12 Grifflon246$0.00$35.002vendor
    77512x12 Heavy Grid Cloth246$0.00$27.002vendor
    50612x12 Light Grid Cloth246$0.00$37.001Matthews
    50812x12 Muslin Bleached246$0.00$50.002vendor
    50912x12 Muslin Unbleached241$0.00$50.002vendor
    51012x12 Silk241$0.00$27.002vendor
    51212x12 Solid241$0.00$17.001Matthews
    100712x12 White Double Net241$0.00$27.002vendor
    77412x12 White Single Net241$0.00$27.002vendor
    52220x20 Black Double Net241$0.00$44.002vendor
    52920x20 Black Single Net241$0.00$44.002vendor
    52120x20 Butterfly Frame241$0.00$44.002vendor
    78420x20 Double Net White241$0.00$45.002vendor
    52320x20 Ears241$0.00$5.002vendor
    52520x20 Grifflon241$0.00$45.002vendor
    78520x20 Heavy Grid Cloth241$0.00$45.002vendor
    52420x20 Light Grid Cloth242$0.00$50.002vendor
    52620x20 Muslin Bleached241$0.00$85.002vendor
    52720x20 Muslin Unbleached241$0.00$60.002vendor
    52820x20 Silk241$0.00$45.002vendor
    78320x20 Single Net White241$0.00$45.002vendor
    53020x20 Solid241$0.00$50.002vendor
    8196x6 Black Double Net241$0.00$9.002vendor
    8176x6 Black Silk241$0.00$14.002vendor
    8186x6 Black Single Net241$0.00$9.002vendor
    5496x6 Butterfly Frame241$0.00$11.002vendor
    8206x6 Grifflector Gold Lame241$0.00$25.002vendor
    8216x6 Grifflector Silver Lame241$0.00$25.002vendor
    5526x6 Grifflon241$0.00$17.002vendor
    5516x6 Heavy Grid Cloth241$0.00$17.002vendor
    8166x6 Light Grid Cloth241$0.00$20.002vendor
    5536x6 Muslin Bleached241$0.00$25.002vendor
    5546x6 Muslin Unbleached241$0.00$25.002vendor
    5556x6 Silk241$0.00$14.002vendor
    5576x6 Solid242$0.00$9.002vendor
    5506x6 White Double Net241$0.00$14.002vendor
    5566x6 White Single Net241$0.00$14.002vendor
    8038x8 Black Double Net241$0.00$10.002vendor
    8058x8 Black Silk241$0.00$30.002vendor
    8008x8 Black Single Net241$0.00$10.002vendor
    7988x8 Butterfly Frame241$0.00$12.002vendor
    10088x8 Ears244$0.00$5.002vendor
    8118x8 Grifflector Gold Lame241$0.00$40.002vendor
    8128x8 Grifflector Silver Lame241$0.00$40.002vendor
    8068x8 Grifflon241$0.00$18.002vendor
    8088x8 Heavy Grid241$0.00$27.002vendor
    8078x8 Light Grid241$0.00$27.002vendor
    8098x8 Muslin Bleached241$0.00$26.002vendor
    8108x8 Muslin Unbleached241$0.00$26.002vendor
    8048x8 Silk241$0.00$20.002vendor
    7998x8 Solid241$0.00$13.002vendor
    8028x8 White Double Net241$0.00$15.002vendor
    8018x8 White Single Net241$0.00$15.002vendor
    591Doorway Dolly252$0.00$100.002vendor
    599Hampers Empty251$128.00$42.242vendor
    1014Taco Cart250$0.00$40.002vendor
    656Western Dolly251$0.00$50.002vendor
    1002Chain Pear Link 1/2"261$13.00$4.292vendor
    1003Chain Pear Link 3/4"261$21.00$6.932vendor
    586Cheeseboro Clamp 1 1/4"261$28.00$5.002vendor
    981Cheeseboro Clamp 1"261$28.00$5.002vendor
    587Cheeseboro Swivel Clamp 1 1/4"263$28.00$5.002vendor
    982Cheeseboro Swivel Clamp 1"261$28.00$5.002vendor
    1001Hoist Hooks 3000lb261$11.00$3.632vendor
    882INDUSTRIAL SAFETY BELTS261$11.00$3.692vendor
    879LIFT SLING 2 TON (1/2"X36")261$12.00$3.962vendor
    880LIFT SLING 3 TON261$14.00$4.622vendor
    881LIFT SLING 5 TON261$17.00$5.612vendor
    978Pipe Batton Clamp 1 1/2"261$3.00$0.992vendor
    977Pipe Batton Clamp 1 1/4"261$3.00$0.992vendor
    980Pipe Roto Clamps 1 1/2"261$12.00$3.962vendor
    979Pipe Roto Clamps 1 1/4"261$12.00$3.962vendor
    976Pipe Steel 10' X 1"261$35.00$11.552vendor
    945Pipe Steel 20' X1"261$53.00$17.492vendor
    994Shackles 1/2"261$6.00$1.982vendor
    991Shackles 1/4"261$1.00$0.332vendor
    993Shackles 3/8"261$4.00$1.322vendor
    992Shackles 5/16"266$2.00$0.662vendor
    944Span Set Sling 3'261$18.00$5.942vendor
    943Span Set Sling 6'261$22.00$7.262vendor
    952SpeedRail #17 Adj. Tee 1 1/4"2612$11.00$3.632vendor
    953SpeedRail #19 Adj. Cross 1 1/4"2612$20.00$6.602vendor
    954SpeedRail #21-35 Adj. Cross (10-35deg) 1 1/4"2612$13.00$4.292vendor
    955SpeedRail #21-45 Adj. Cross (30-45deg) 1 1/4"2612$14.00$4.622vendor
    946SpeedRail #3 Elbow 1 1/4"2612$8.00$2.642vendor
    947SpeedRail #3AE Adj. Tee 1 1/4"2612$14.00$4.622vendor
    956SpeedRail #41 Adj. Flange 1 1/4"2612$10.00$3.302vendor
    957SpeedRail #43 Rnd. Base Flange 1 1/4"2612$9.00$2.972vendor
    958SpeedRail #46 Flange 1 1/4"2612$9.00$2.972vendor
    959SpeedRail #47 Rect. Base Flange 1 1/4"2612$8.00$2.642vendor
    960SpeedRail #47-AF Angle Flange (55deg) 1 1/4"2612$8.00$2.642vendor
    961SpeedRail #49 Toe-Board Flange 1 1/4"2612$14.00$4.622vendor
    948SpeedRail #5 Tee 1 1/4"2612$8.00$2.642vendor
    950SpeedRail #5-AT Angle Tee  1 1/4"2612$10.00$3.302vendor
    949SpeedRail #5-E Tee-E 1 1/4"2610$6.00$1.982vendor
    951SpeedRail #7 Cross 1 1/4"2612$8.00$2.642vendor
    962SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #10 Cross 1 1/4"2612$14.00$4.622vendor
    963SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #12 Short-Barrel Cross 1 1/4"2612$12.00$3.962vendor
    964SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #15 Offset Tee 1 1/4"2612$20.00$6.602vendor
    965SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #20 Outside Corner 1 1/4"2612$20.00$6.602vendor
    966SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #30 Adj. Cross 1 1/4"2612$26.00$8.582vendor
    967SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #30-A Mod. Cross 1 1/4"2612$13.00$4.292vendor
    968SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #30-B Swivel 1 1/4"2612$13.00$4.292vendor
    969SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #30-C Adj. Swivel 1 1/4"2612$22.00$7.262vendor
    970SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #40 Floor Flange 1 1/4"2612$7.00$2.312vendor
    971SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #50 Floor Flange 1 1/4"2612$11.00$3.632vendor
    972SpeedRail (Nu-Rail) #52 Hvy Dty Wall Flange 1 1/4"2612$19.00$6.272vendor
    973SpeedRail (Rack Master) #14 Split Cross 1 1/4"2612$17.00$5.612vendor
    974SpeedRail (Rack Master) #70 Coupling 1 1/4"2612$7.00$2.312vendor
    975SpeedRail PLUG #60 Plug2612$2.00$0.662vendor
    986Wire Rope 7x19 1/4" x 8000' (1.00/Foot)261$8,000.00$2,640.002vendor
    983Wire Rope 7x19 1/8" x 5000' (.55/Foot)261$2,750.00$907.502vendor
    984Wire Rope 7x19 3/16" x 2000' (.64/Foot)261$1,280.00$422.002vendor
    985Wire Rope 7x19 5/16" x 1000' (1.55/Foot)261$1,550.00$511.502vendor
    999Wire Rope Thimbles 1/2"261$1.00$0.332vendor
    997Wire Rope Thimbles 1/4"261$0.45$0.152vendor
    995Wire Rope Thimbles 1/8"261$0.45$0.152vendor
    996Wire Rope Thimbles 3/16"261$0.45$0.152vendor
    998Wire Rope Thimbles 3/8"261$1.00$0.332vendor
    1000Wire Rope Thimbles 5/8"261$2.00$0.662vendor
    869ADJ. CIRCLE HOLE CUTTER272$8.00$2.642vendor
    735Adjustable Wrench 10"271$10.00$3.302vendor
    734Adjustable Wrench 12"271$15.00$4.952vendor
    733Adjustable Wrench 15"271$23.00$7.592vendor
    736Adjustable Wrench 8"271$8.00$2.642vendor
    745Arrow Brad Gun271$85.00$28.052vendor
    890AVIATION TIN SNIPS271$6.00$1.982vendor
    878BIT BRACE272$12.00$3.962vendor
    661Blades Utility Knife-10ea.271$4.00$4.002vendor
    771Bolt Cutter 24"271$50.00$16.502vendor
    889BOLT CUTTER 30"271$65.00$21.452vendor
    772Bolt Cutter 36"271$82.00$27.002vendor
    892CABLE BOOSTER 400 AMP271$13.00$0.002vendor
    903Cable Cutter 3/16"271$30.00$9.902vendor
    902Cable Cutter 5/8" x24"271$165.00$54.452vendor
    896CABLE LOCK 36"271$9.00$2.972vendor
    929Casters 6"271$45.00$14.852vendor
    935C-Clamp 2 1/2"271$5.00$1.652vendor
    769Chain Vice Grip271$24.00$8.002vendor
    725Chalk Line271$10.00$3.002vendor
    899CHALK REEL271$5.00$2.002vendor
    900CHALK REFILL271$3.00$1.002vendor
    766Channel Lock271$18.00$6.002vendor
    739Chisel set271$20.00$6.602vendor
    910Circular Saw 7 1/4"271$147.00$48.512vendor
    749Circular Saw assorted blades271$12.00$4.002vendor
    748Circular Saw Carbide Blades271$25.00$8.002vendor
    936Clamp Deep Jaw 46"271$48.00$15.842vendor
    898COMBINATION PADLOCK271$19.00$6.272vendor
    746Cordless Drill and Charger271$140.00$46.202vendor
    747Cordless Drill Batteries271$40.00$13.202vendor
    728Crow Bars 18"271$10.00$3.302vendor
    729Crow Bars 24"271$12.00$3.962vendor
    727Crow Bars 36"271$22.00$7.262vendor
    753D-Handled Router271$260.00$85.802vendor
    750Drill Bits, Metal271$50.00$15.002vendor
    911Drill Electric 1/2"271$125.00$41.002vendor
    921Drill Electric Hammer 1/2"271$175.00$57.752vendor
    893ELECTRIC ENGRAVER271$20.00$6.602vendor
    883EMERGENCY TOW ROPE271$4.00$1.322vendor
    870FLEXIBLE INSP MIRROR271$8.00$2.642vendor
    732Garbage Cans/Wheels/55 Gal.271$65.00$21.452vendor
    919Grinder 4"271$127.00$41.952vendor
    920Grinder 4" Grind/Cutting Wheel271$6.00$1.982vendor
    917Grinder 9"271$168.00$55.442vendor
    918Grinder 9" Disc271$6.00$1.982vendor
    924Gromet Set 1/2"271$39.00$12.872vendor
    744Gromet set 1/4"271$18.00$5.942vendor
    923Gromet Set 3/8"271$22.00$7.262vendor
    925Gromet Set 5/8"271$62.00$20.462vendor
    928Hamper Bushel271$128.00$42.242vendor
    877HAND DRILL 1/4"271$15.00$4.952vendor
    755Hand Saw 10pt271$30.00$9.902vendor
    754Hand Saw 8pt271$30.00$9.902vendor
    926Hand Truck (Cart)271$140.00$46.202vendor
    770Heat Gun (Bosch)271$94.00$31.022vendor
    737Hex Key set/fold up271$16.00$5.282vendor
    887IMPACT DRIVER WITH BITS (Sm. Hand)271$130.00$45.002vendor
    931Impact Gun 1/2" Bosch271$160.00$52.802vendor
    916Jig Saw  Blade271$3.00$1.002vendor
    915Jig Saw Bosch271$135.00$44.002vendor
    927Kit Box (Case)271$48.00$15.002vendor
    757Levels 2'271$18.00$5.942vendor
    756Levels 3'271$42.00$13.862vendor
    758Levels 48"271$110.00$36.302vendor
    871MAGNETIC BAR271$3.00$0.992vendor
    904Nicro Press 1/16"272$72.00$23.762vendor
    908Nicro Press 1/4"271$160.00$52.802vendor
    906Nicro Press 1/8"271$80.00$26.402vendor
    907Nicro Press 3/16"271$80.00$26.402vendor
    905Nicro Press 3/32"271$72.00$23.762vendor
    909Nicro Press 5/16"271$160.00$52.802vendor
    989Nicro Press Sleeve 1/4"271$1.00$0.332vendor
    987Nicro Press Sleeve 1/8"271$0.50$0.172vendor
    988Nicro Press Sleeve 3/16"271$1.00$0.332vendor
    990Nicro Press Sleeve 5/16"271$1.00$0.332vendor
    875OFFSET SCREWDRIVER SET271$40.00$13.202vendor
    765Open End/Box wrench set271$120.00$39.602vendor
    897PADLOCK STEEL WITH 3PCS271$23.00$7.592vendor
    761Pipe Wrench Aluminum 18"271$62.00$20.462vendor
    759Pipe Wrench Aluminum 24"271$90.00$29.702vendor
    760Pipe Wrench Steel 24"271$42.00$13.862vendor
    876PRECISION SCREWDRIVERS SET271$50.00$16.502vendor
    933Ratchet 1/2" Deep Sockets (Impact)271$58.00$19.002vendor
    934Ratchet 1/2" Impact Sockets271$46.00$15.002vendor
    939Ratchet Belt (Strap) 1" x 25'271$22.00$7.262vendor
    940Ratchet Belt (Strap) 1" x 25' Heavy271$38.00$12.002vendor
    942Ratchet Belt (Strap) 2" x 15'271$80.00$26.402vendor
    941Ratchet Belt (Strap) 2" x 40'271$96.00$31.682vendor
    886RATCHET SCREWDRIVER SET271$4.00$1.322vendor
    764Ratchet set 1/2"271$80.00$26.402vendor
    762Ratchet set 1/4"271$32.00$10.562vendor
    763Ratchet set 3/8"272$48.00$15.842vendor
    751Router 3hp271$350.00$115.502vendor
    752Router Bits, assorted271$0.00$0.002vendor
    913Sawzall 2 speed271$189.00$62.002vendor
    914Sawzall Blades271$5.00$1.652vendor
    891SCREW EYES ASSORTMENT271$10.00$3.302vendor
    722Screwdriver Set271$118.00$38.942vendor
    721Side Cutters271$11.00$3.632vendor
    743Sledge Hammer271$15.00$4.952vendor
    872SPONGE/RUBBER SQUEEGEE271$1.00$0.332vendor
    932Staple Gun Electric Arrow271$62.00$20.462vendor
    895STEEL HASP271$5.00$1.652vendor
    922Tap Con Drive Set271$55.00$18.152vendor
    740Tape Measure 100'271$23.00$7.592vendor
    742Tape Measure 25'271$17.00$5.612vendor
    741Tape Measure 50'271$16.00$5.282vendor
    738T-Handle allen 3/16"271$5.00$1.652vendor
    930Tool Box 27x54x72271$1,200.00$396.002vendor
    873TUBE BENDER271$8.00$2.642vendor
    874TUBE BENDER LEVER TYPE271$24.00$7.922vendor
    888UTILITY KNIFE271$3.00$1.002vendor
    767Vice Grip (regular)271$12.00$3.962vendor
    657Alum. Foil (silver)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    658Bead Board 4x8 (silver back)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    659Blackwrap 12"x50'281$27.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    660Blackwrap 24"x50'281$27.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    662Drywall Screws 1 1/4" 1000281$10.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    664Drywall Screws 1 5/8" lb281$3.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    665Drywall Screws 1" lb281$3.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    666Drywall Screws 2 1/2" lb281$3.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    667Drywall Screws 2 1/4" lb281$3.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    669Drywall Screws 2" lb281$3.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    670Drywall Screws 3" lb281$3.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    1285Drywall Screws 3/4" lb281$3.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    1300Duvatyne 54"W281$0.00$0.002vendor
    671Foamcore 4x8 b&w281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1295Foamcore 4x8 black281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1299Furniture Polish (lemon pledge)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    673Hemp 1/2" 1250'281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1301Hemp 1/4" 1200'281$0.00$0.002vendor
    674Hemp 3/8" 600'281$0.00$0.002vendor
    675Nails 10d CC281$0.00$0.002vendor
    676Nails 10d Common lb281$2.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    677Nails 10d Double Headed281$0.00$0.002vendor
    678Nails 10d Finishing281$0.00$0.002vendor
    679Nails 12d CC281$0.00$0.002vendor
    680Nails 12d Common lb281$2.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    681Nails 12d Finishing281$0.00$0.002vendor
    682Nails 4d CC281$0.00$0.002vendor
    683Nails 4d Common lb281$2.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    684Nails 4d Finishing lb281$2.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    685Nails 6d CC281$0.00$0.002vendor
    686Nails 6d Common281$0.00$0.002vendor
    687Nails 6d Finishing281$0.00$0.002vendor
    688Nails 8d CC281$0.00$0.002vendor
    689Nails 8d Common281$2.95$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    690Nails 8d Double Headed281$0.00$0.002vendor
    691Nails 8d Finishing281$0.00$0.002vendor
    692Rubber Bands (large)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    693Safety Pins (large)2812$0.00$0.002vendor
    1296Sash Cord #10 100' black281$0.00$0.002vendor
    694Sash Cord #10 100' white281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1297Sash Cord #8 100' black281$0.00$0.002vendor
    695Sash Cord #8 100' white281$0.00$0.002vendor
    696Showcard (black and white)281$0.00$0.005Barbizon  Electric
    1289Showcard (gold florentine)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1290Showcard (gold matte)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1291Showcard (gold shiny)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1292Showcard (silver florentine)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1293Showcard (silver matte)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1294Showcard (silver shiny)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    698Staples T-50 1/2"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    699Staples T-50 1/4"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    701Staples T-50 3/8"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    702Staples T-50 5/16"282$0.00$0.002vendor
    1298Staples T-50 9/16"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    703Staples T-50 Ceiling Tile282$0.00$0.002vendor
    704Tape 1" Black Paper281$0.00$0.002vendor
    705Tape 2" Black Paper281$0.00$0.002vendor
    706Tape 2" Clear281$0.00$0.002vendor
    707Tape Black Gaffers 2"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    708Tape Grey Gaffers 2"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    709Tape Masking 1"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    1302Tape Photo Black 2"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    710Tape White 1" (camera)281$0.00$0.002vendor
    711Trickline (black) 750'281$0.00$0.002vendor
    712Trickline (white) 750'281$0.00$0.002vendor
    850Upson Board 4'x8'x1/8"281$0.00$0.002vendor
    717 5/4 Batton Clear 16' ( 5 ea.)294$0.00$0.003LeNoble Lumber
    7161x12x16 Clear291$80.00$0.003LeNoble Lumber
    8481x2x16291$5.00$0.003LeNoble Lumber
    8491x4x16291$10.50$0.003LeNoble Lumber
    7152x12x16'292$30.00$0.003LeNoble Lumber
    7132x4x16'291$13.00$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    7142x6x16'291$15.00$0.003LeNoble Lumber
    9014x8x1" Plywood AC291$0.00$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    8474x8x1/4 Plywood AC291$0.00$0.003LeNoble Lumber
    7204x8x1/4" Masonite Tempered291$22.00$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    7184x8x3/4" Plywood AC291$49.00$0.003LeNoble  Lumber
    7194x8x3/4" Plywood Birch291$56.00$0.0023Prince Lumber Co.
    10751 Light Fey303$0.00$11.5020Mole   Richardson
    104510" 2K Complete302$0.00$22.502vendor
    108212 Light Moleeno302$0.00$250.0020Mole Richardson
    10411K Focal Spot302$0.00$27.502vendor
    10762 Light Fey302$0.00$16.002vendor
    105520K Dimmer301$0.00$50.002vendor
    105420K Ext Cable302$0.00$10.002vendor
    108424 Light Dino Light303$0.00$500.002vendor
    10662K Ziplight302$0.00$24.002vendor
    10672K Ziplight Eggcrate302$0.00$23.502vendor
    10774 Light Fey302$0.00$20.002vendor
    10785 Light Fey302$0.00$19.502vendor
    10715/2K Skypan302$0.00$21.002vendor
    10725/2K Skypan Skirt302$0.00$10.002vendor
    10448" 2K Spot302$0.00$22.502vendor
    10799 Light Fey302$0.00$28.502vendor
    10839 Light Maxi Brute302$0.00$50.002vendor
    1049Baby 10K Complete302$0.00$47.502vendor
    1050Baby 10K Snoot Set302$0.00$10.002vendor
    1040Baby 1K Snoot Set302$0.00$4.502vendor
    1039Baby 1K Spot Complete302$0.00$17.252vendor
    1043Baby 2K Snoot Set302$0.00$5.502vendor
    1042Baby 2K Spot Complete302$0.00$22.502vendor
    1069Baby 4K Eggcrate301$0.00$26.502vendor
    1068Baby 4K Softlite302$0.00$30.002vendor
    1046Baby 5K Complete302$0.00$33.502vendor
    1047Baby 5K Snoot Set302$0.00$6.502vendor
    1038Baby Baby Snoot Set302$0.00$4.502vendor
    1037Baby Baby Spot Complete302$0.00$17.002vendor
    1064Baby Softlite302$0.00$12.502vendor
    1065Baby Softlite Eggcrate302$0.00$9.002vendor
    1052Big Eye Complete301$0.00$65.002vendor
    1063Cyclight 1K - 1.5K302$0.00$14.002vendor
    1061Dedo Light Kit 150W302$0.00$175.002vendor
    1031Inkie Complete302$0.00$12.502vendor
    1033Inkie Focal Spot302$0.00$18.502vendor
    1032Inkie Snoot Set302$0.00$4.002vendor
    1070Lowell Light Kit302$0.00$17.502vendor
    1056LTM Pepper 100302$0.00$12.002vendor
    1057LTM Pepper 200302$0.00$16.002vendor
    1058Mickey Mole Complete302$0.00$17.502vendor
    1059Mighty Mole Complete302$0.00$22.502vendor
    1080Mole Par302$0.00$18.002vendor
    1062Nooklight 1K302$0.00$14.002vendor
    1081Par Can Theatrical302$0.00$12.002vendor
    1060Source 4 Leiko (19,26,36,50 deg)302$0.00$31.002vendor
    1073Space Light Complete302$0.00$50.002vendor
    1074Space Light Silk Skirt302$0.00$10.502vendor
    1051Studio 10K Complete302$0.00$55.002vendor
    1053Studio 20K Complete302$0.00$450.002vendor
    1048Studio 5K Complete302$0.00$30.002vendor
    1036Tweenie Focal Spot302$0.00$15.002vendor
    1034Tweenie Mole Complete302$0.00$16.252vendor
    1035Tweenie Snoot Set302$0.00$5.002vendor
    1102Diva Light311$0.00$125.002vendor
    1100Image 80 32k311$0.00$200.002vendor
    1101Image 80 55k311$0.00$200.002vendor
    1106Kino Blanketlight311$0.00$450.002vendor
    1107Kino Bulb 2' 32k311$0.00$5.002vendor
    1108Kino Bulb 2' 55k311$0.00$5.002vendor
    1109Kino Bulb 4' 32k311$0.00$5.002vendor
    1110Kino Bulb 4' 55k311$0.00$5.002vendor
    1098Kino Flo 15" 1 Light 32k311$0.00$125.002vendor
    1099Kino Flo 15" 1 Light 55k311$0.00$125.002vendor
    1086Kino Flo 2' 1 Light 32k314$0.00$45.002vendor
    1087Kino Flo 2' 1 Light 55k311$0.00$45.002vendor
    1088Kino Flo 2' 2 Light 32k311$0.00$45.002vendor
    1089Kino Flo 2' 2 Light 55k311$0.00$45.002vendor
    1090Kino Flo 2' 4 Light 32k311$0.00$75.002vendor
    1091Kino Flo 2' 4 Light 55k311$0.00$75.002vendor
    1092Kino Flo 4' 1 Light 32k311$0.00$50.002vendor
    1093Kino Flo 4' 1 Light 55k311$0.00$50.002vendor
    1094Kino Flo 4' 2 Light 32k311$0.00$75.002vendor
    1095Kino Flo 4' 2 Light 55k311$0.00$75.002vendor
    1096Kino Flo 4' 4 Light 32k311$0.00$90.002vendor
    1097Kino Flo 4' 4 Light 55k311$0.00$90.002vendor
    1104Micro Flo Kit311$0.00$50.002vendor
    1103Mini Flo Kit311$0.00$50.002vendor
    1105Wall Of Lights311$0.00$225.002vendor
    1130HMI Fresnel 1200 W Mag321$0.00$115.002vendor
    1131HMI Fresnel 1200 W SqW322$0.00$200.002vendor
    1138HMI Fresnel 12000 W SqW321$0.00$750.002vendor
    1139HMI Fresnel 18000 W SqW321$0.00$950.002vendor
    1126HMI Fresnel 200 W Mag321$0.00$92.002vendor
    1127HMI Fresnel 200 W SqW321$0.00$92.002vendor
    1132HMI Fresnel 2500 W Mag321$0.00$160.002vendor
    1133HMI Fresnel 2500 W SqW323$0.00$250.002vendor
    1134HMI Fresnel 4000 W Mag321$0.00$195.002vendor
    1135HMI Fresnel 4000 W SqW322$0.00$315.002vendor
    1128HMI Fresnel 575 W Mag321$0.00$95.002vendor
    1129HMI Fresnel 575 W SqW321$0.00$150.002vendor
    1136HMI Fresnel 6000 W Mag321$0.00$380.002vendor
    1137HMI Fresnel 6000 W SqW321$0.00$450.002vendor
    1116HMI Par 1200 W Mag321$0.00$125.002vendor
    1117HMI Par 1200 W SqW321$0.00$250.002vendor
    1125HMI Par 12000 W SqW321$0.00$750.002vendor
    1111HMI Par 125 W Pocket Par321$0.00$100.002vendor
    1112HMI Par 200 W Mag321$0.00$92.002vendor
    1113HMI Par 200 W SqW321$0.00$150.002vendor
    1118HMI Par 2500 W Mag321$0.00$275.002vendor
    1119HMI Par 2500 W SqW321$0.00$500.002vendor
    1120HMI Par 4000 W Mag321$0.00$400.002vendor
    1121HMI Par 4000 W SqW321$0.00$750.002vendor
    1114HMI Par 575 W Mag321$0.00$95.002vendor
    1115HMI Par 575 W SqW321$0.00$200.002vendor
    1122HMI Par 6000 W Mag321$0.00$500.002vendor
    1123HMI Par 6000 W SqW321$0.00$750.002vendor
    1155Chimeras Daylight 10K333$0.00$100.002vendor
    1157Chimeras Daylight 20K331$0.00$150.002vendor
    1151Chimeras Daylight 2K331$0.00$50.002vendor
    1153Chimeras Daylight 5K331$0.00$75.002vendor
    1156Chimeras Quartz 10K331$0.00$100.002vendor
    1158Chimeras Quartz 20K331$0.00$150.002vendor
    1152Chimeras Quartz 2K331$0.00$50.002vendor
    1154Chimeras Quartz 5K331$0.00$75.002vendor
    1159Zenon 1K341$0.00$300.002vendor
    1160Zenon 2K341$0.00$300.002vendor
    1164Zenon 2K Super Trooper341$0.00$400.002vendor
    1161Zenon 4K341$0.00$450.002vendor
    1162Zenon 7K341$0.00$650.002vendor
    1163Zenon Flashlight341$0.00$125.002vendor
    1173#2 50' 5 Wire Banded351$0.00$30.002vendor
    1172#2 Single Strand 50' (ground)351$0.00$10.002vendor
    1165100A 5 Wire Trico Tie-Ins351$0.00$15.002vendor
    1193100A Bates Extension 100'351$0.00$14.002vendor
    1191100A Bates Extension 25'351$0.00$9.002vendor
    1192100A Bates Extension 50'351$0.00$11.002vendor
    1198100A Fem to Camlock351$0.00$10.002vendor
    1203100A Lunch Box351$0.00$25.002vendor
    1199100A Male to Camlock351$0.00$10.002vendor
    1194100A to 100A twofer351$0.00$10.002vendor
    1195100A to 60A twofer351$0.00$9.002vendor
    1201100A Woodhead Box351$0.00$20.002vendor
    120412/3 Single Extension 25'353$0.00$3.252vendor
    120512/3 Single Extension 50'351$0.00$4.002vendor
    121112K Electronic Dimmer351$0.00$75.002vendor
    116818" Jumpers351$0.00$5.002vendor
    12081K Variac351$0.00$13.502vendor
    11742/O 100'351$0.00$16.002vendor
    11752/O 50'351$0.00$10.002vendor
    1166200A 5 Wire Trico Tie-Ins352$0.00$15.002vendor
    12092K Variac351$0.00$16.002vendor
    1179300A Distro Box351$0.00$65.002vendor
    12064 Way Extension (Hubbell)351$0.00$7.002vendor
    12074 Way Extension Short351$0.00$7.002vendor
    11764/O 100'351$0.00$19.002vendor
    11774/O 50'351$0.00$11.002vendor
    11694/O Anderson Tie-In Clamps351$0.00$4.002vendor
    1178600A Distro Box352$0.00$85.002vendor
    116760A 5 Wire Trico Tie-Ins351$0.00$15.002vendor
    119060A Bates Extension 100'351$0.00$11.002vendor
    118860A Bates Extension 25'351$0.00$7.002vendor
    118960A Bates Extension 50'351$0.00$9.002vendor
    120260A Mini Snack Box351$0.00$15.002vendor
    119760A to 20A twofer351$0.00$8.002vendor
    119660A to 60A twofer351$0.00$8.002vendor
    120060A Woodhead Box351$0.00$15.002vendor
    12106K Electronic Dimmer351$0.00$50.002vendor
    1170Bare End Tie-In351$0.00$7.002vendor
    1180Bullswitch 100A351$0.00$25.002vendor
    1181Bullswitch 200A351$0.00$40.002vendor
    1182Bullswitch 400A351$0.00$60.002vendor
    1186Camlock Soft Siamese351$0.00$9.002vendor
    1183Camlock T351$0.00$5.002vendor
    1187Camlock Threefers351$0.00$12.002vendor
    1184F/F Siamese351$0.00$5.002vendor
    1171Grounding Squids351$0.00$10.002vendor
    1185M/M Siamese351$0.00$5.002vendor
    12181K Beefy Baby 2x 3x riser371$0.00$5.002vendor
    12191K Low Roller Stand371$0.00$4.752vendor
    12201K Roller Stand371$0.00$4.752vendor
    12211K Sky High Stand371$0.00$4.752vendor
    12232K Roller Stand372$0.00$4.752vendor
    12242K Sky High Stand371$0.00$4.752vendor
    12222K Stand371$0.00$4.752vendor
    12265K Sky High Stand371$0.00$5.502vendor
    12255K Stand371$0.00$5.502vendor
    1227Avenger Stand371$0.00$50.002vendor
    1230Cinevator Stand371$0.00$40.002vendor
    1229Crankovator Stand372$0.00$30.002vendor
    1232Low Crank371$0.00$30.002vendor
    1231Super Cinevator Stand371$0.00$60.002vendor
    1228Super Crank Stand371$0.00$35.002vendor
    1233Cable Cart381$0.00$35.002vendor
    1234Cable Crossings381$0.00$10.002vendor
    123510K DTY Bulb391$0.00$165.002vendor
    12361K DXW Bulb391$0.00$14.002vendor
    12371K EGT Bulb391$0.00$14.002vendor
    12381K FFN Bulb391$0.00$20.002vendor
    12391K FFP Bulb391$0.00$20.002vendor
    12401K FFR Bulb391$0.00$20.002vendor
    12411K FFS Bulb391$0.00$20.002vendor
    12422K CYX Bulb391$0.00$22.002vendor
    12432K FEY Bulb393$0.00$22.002vendor
    12445K DPY Bulb392$0.00$90.002vendor
    1245DYS Bulb391$0.00$10.002vendor
    1246FAD Bulb391$0.00$10.002vendor
    1247FCM Bulb391$0.00$14.002vendor
    1248FCX Bulb391$0.00$13.002vendor
    1249FEV Bulb391$0.00$10.002vendor
    1250FRK Bulb391$0.00$10.002vendor
    1313Black Scrim (Rosco 3421)401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1143CTB 1/2 (Lee 202)401$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1142CTB 1/4 (Lee 203)401$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1304CTB 1/8 (Lee 218)401$0.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1141CTB FULL (Lee 201)401$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1140CTO 1/2 (Lee 205)401$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1263CTO 1/4 (Lee 206)402$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1303CTO 1/8 (Lee 223)401$0.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    672CTO FULL (Lee 204)401$149.00$0.0022Lee  Filters USA
    1314CTS (Rosco 3441)401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1315CTS 1/2 (Rosco 3442)401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1305GRID 1/4 (Rosco 3034)401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1274GRID FULL (Rosco 3030)401$138.00$0.002vendor
    1275GRID LIGHT (1/2) (Rosco 3032)401$138.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1308Hampshire Frost (Lee 253)401$0.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1309Minus Green (Rosco 3314)401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1271ND .3 (Lee 209)401$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1272ND .6 (Lee 210)401$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1273ND .9 (Lee 211)401$149.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1270Opal Tough Frost (Rosco 3010)402$0.00$0.002vendor
    1310Plus Green (Rosco 3304)401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1316Tough Frost (Rosco 3008)401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1311Tough Spun (Lee 214)401$0.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1312Tracing Paper 1000h 72" Roll401$0.00$0.002vendor
    1264White Diffusion (Lee 216)401$138.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1269White Diffusion 1/2 (Lee 250)401$138.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1306White Diffusion 1/4 (Lee 251)401$0.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    1307White Diffusion 1/8 (Lee 252)401$0.00$0.0022Lee Filters USA
    12151200A Crystal Blimped Gen411$0.00$1,000.002vendor
    12161400A Crystal Blimped Gen411$0.00$1,000.002vendor
    12176500W Honda Gen w/ Accs411$0.00$175.002vendor

    basics...  per day rentals and some costs.. gel rolls are about 150 ea own database i use as a "reminder" what I need to get for a job...your money concerns for pro jobs is not quite in the same category.

    and isnt what i'm talking about.  its the " need to do it now " factor excuses...that makes the film crew work.

    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 2:04 PM   in reply to able123

    I just reviewed my 'database" list..above...and realized I mispelled some items ( like nicopress )...etc.


    also, to avoid confusion the "qty" column has nothing to do with price or rental.. the price and rental is for 1 item of said item...


    I was sorta teaching myself web app stuff back when I did this thing... and the qty column in sql server was for inventory testing ... like as if this could be a useable app for equip vendors etc..


    so this entry for example

    1086Kino Flo 2' 1 Light 32k314$0.00$45.002vendor

    is a qty of " 4 " in the inventory, but the price and rental is for 1 such item.. its not totalled ...etc.


    just to get it straight.


    in case someone wants to hire me to make a real app that we can sell to the world as a cool film makers " database ".


    or you can just use it yourself.. do it.... make it work... cause the manufacturers and prices are what they are worldwide... you just ship the stuff to where you need it etc... how cool is THAT ???



    PS... also.. the "vendor" field in the database table can be linked to html ( website of vendor etc ) soooo, the theory was that they would become subscribers ( money to pay for deployment of app ) and you could then basically order stuff straight from ' THEM" ...through that link.


    oh well... it never worked out due to problems with my shopping cart code being too cumbersome ... cause basically you have to check items off and put qty down and do it fast ...and get bid etc... fast.. and doing it by fax and paper was actually ' FASTER"  than using the web page app...

    I never did figure out how to program the thing (, sql , vb etc ) to be faster than doing it with paper and fax.



    pps... one more note... re: database of equip etc... and links to manufacturers , vendors etc... my brother ( a programmer ) did say that with the cloud and ms silverlight this is a lot more " potentially" doable.. in case someone here has a brilliant idea to make it work. are a producer and moving around different countries to shoot a film and want a fast estimate re: cost of equip in those locations..

    how cool is that ?? otherwise its the same old story.. production meetings with script, keys, everyone, going over scene by scene, making suggestions etc... then handing in "list" of stuff needed ( paper ) and then production has to actually get those numbers via fax and so on ( shipping costs etc ).. just to get a ballpark figure for cost.

    this is one instance where internet is helpful potentially... but re: editing the product you must be joking ... if you think the cloud is a good idea ...hehe...ITS BEER THIRTY ...happy thanksgiving !

    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 3:05 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva



    Does the same hold for the Subscription license, which was part of my comment?



    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 3:17 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    I can't give away too many technical details of this future release, but I can reassure you that the activation process will allow for the use of means other than having the computer connected to the Internet.

    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 3:23 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva



    Thank you.


    Happy Thanksgiving,



    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 23, 2011 4:08 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva


    I can't give away too many technical details of this future release, but I can reassure you that the activation process will allow for the use of means other than having the computer connected to the Internet.


    thanks Todd.. like most programs of the past people depend on.. you pay for it, you get it installed and working properly as advertised, and you use it ....thereby concluding the inherent " promise" of both parties.


    end of story.

    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 24, 2011 1:14 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    People who just purchased that $800 upgrade for the master collection get to use that effectively forever with not another time dropped. In 16 months, they will be able to upgrade to CS6 if they want, and have been no worse for the wear. Likewise, I would assume that most people who just now purchased CS5.5 would NOT be upgrading for another $800 in 6 months anyway (when CS6 comes out) so the whole discussion on that matter really falls apart. But even if they DID upgrade, it would cost them $800+$800 over the next 16 months as opposed to $800+$500 under the new plan. That's a savings of $300 in your scenario.


    Woooow - big mistake


    Old policy - dont have to pay to go to 5.5 upgrade - go straight to version 6

    thats a saving of $800!

    New policy - 'forced' to upgrade if you want to continue to upgrade and own outright.



    On a side note CJ - you are obviously an Adobe evangelist and nothing here is going to sway you from your path and no doubt you will write another reply to this so I'll just get a few more notes in this one as I don't want to carry on saying the same thing - Adobe should be listening to customers, not screwing every last penny they can out of them. Others see it different and that OK, but not me.


    If the cloud option were a new option and the old upgrade path was maintained - I'd be happy. The big issue for me is the upgrade or loose it blunt force trauma approach to pull in revenue. Adobe we're pulled over the coals a while back over customer service and it looks like they've just found another way to upset thousands of users - I'm definitely one.


    Bottom line, let's agree to disagree.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 24, 2011 3:38 AM   in reply to Paul_Taylor

    We can agree to disagree, of course I already thought that was a bit of a foregone conclusion, but nonetheless, you are correct - I will write another reply (although "Adobe evangelist"...? Not sure that's true. I believe that would entitle me to a paycheck).


    Should be noted that this "new policy" is not new at all. Only over the last couple years - literally, the last couple of years - has Adobe allowed people to upgrade effectively from any previous versions. They have been doing that in order to get people back into the upgrade cycle. There were plenty of people still using Photoshop 7 and so they removed one of the barriers (cost) that might have been preventing them from upgrading so many versions in the past.


    But understand, Adobe wants to give a certain additional benefit to customers who HAVE been upgrading every single version. I think most people would agree that maintaining an annual upgrade as a customer "should" entitle a person to a better benefit than someone who only upgrades every 4 years, correct? That is what Adobe is doing.


    As for listening to customers, look around and tell me what Avid and Apple are doing. Have they been listening to customers? Avid has been putting the screws into even their most loyal customers for decades, and although their product has always been quite good (albeit, in different ways from Adobe or Apple), they have been rather ruthless. Apple, of course, is the most notorious offender when it comes to listening to it's customers - at least their professional video customers. They continue to say things like "we know what people want" and "we think this is a better way to work." Adobe, on the other hand, constantly interacts with their customers and openly accepts both bug requests and feature requests. They really do everything they can to keep offering a solid product at a good price.


    The reason I keep defending Adobe (without pay, I might remind you) is because - as I said earlier - they don't deserve to be accused of "putting the screws in" and not listening to their customers. To borrow your line, "Woooow - big mistake."

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 25, 2011 2:50 PM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    >Should be noted that this "new policy" is not new at all. Only over the last couple years - literally, the last couple of years - has Adobe allowed people to upgrade effectively from any previous versions. They have been doing that in order to get people back into the upgrade cycle. There were plenty of people still using Photoshop 7 and so they removed one of the barriers (cost) that might have been preventing them from upgrading so many versions in the past.<


    Huh?  Adobe's upgrade policy was always "Upgrade from ANY version".  At version CS3 they restricted it to "Upgrade from 3 versions back".  Now we'll have to upgrade to EVERY new version to remain eligible.


    And if what Todd is saying about the .5 versions is accurate, we'll also need those upgrades to keep our eligibilty.


    While you may not want to describe the situation as "putting the screws in", customers who have planned their upgrades on the previous policy, and are now being told to pony up for an unexpected upgrade near CS5's end of life, are feeling every turn.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 25, 2011 4:07 PM   in reply to R Popham

    this is really about metrics and forecasts and market share and demographics ( related to various source files like gopro, snakecams, dslr, avchd, and so on and so forth...)

    this has NOTHING to do with individuals , long time customers, whats right or wrong re: indidual needs or desires.


    this corp is like a giant iceberg that is floating along... in a historical context re: its products and competitors and market share and share price and management ability ( ability to shape the future for profit ).. it has nothing to do with any specific group of users or level of use ( hobby, pro, semi pro etc ).


    what the employees of adobe have to look at for their own sake is the impication to THEM as employees. Its not about help ( forums, telephone help, etc which this forum is a part of ). Its not about how " cool " the ads look for products and the promises made for product vs reality ( bugs ).


    it is basically what YOU make of it at this point.   Decide what you need to do the job you need to do .. the tools  you need for say the next 5 years or so with the clients you either have or hope to have ...


    do that.  you dont need someone else dictating some " period of time" for upgrades or bug fixes.  You dont need someone outside of your 'business" or " hobby" to dictate what you can or cant do.  Just make up your mind what you need and do that... nobody is your " friend " going to help you down the road to make better quality stuff and need less plug ins and workarounds and re-wrapping of files and all that stuff...


    to expect adobe to care about you individually as customers is just plain altruistic to the extreme. The company is huge and unwieldy.. and bloated and the real estate alone ( office space etc ) is draining them dry...


    The employees ( if they didnt get it when help went to india a while back ) will end up between a rock and a hard place when it comes to their own futures... its not YOUR problem as a customer.


    I haven't worked on a single pro movie job ( like a real movie you see in the theatre ?? ) that uses premiere pro. For anything.  That is their market share in the real world.  It isn't going to get better with this new upgrade thing and the cloud.  Any pro editing program that uses the cloud for installation and use of program... has to be destined for failure.  High school students might like it .. but I dont think anyone else will.  I just dont care either.


    this thread isnt about customers and what they need or want to bring adobe into the pro world.  this was decided and planned way before fcp screwed up and some mac users came to premiere... its an iceberg on the move.. looking at the future... and trust me.. the future is not the web... or the cloud for pros.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 25, 2011 4:15 PM   in reply to able123

    > if they didnt get it when help went to india a while back


    I don't know where you get your information, but much of it is wrong. The person who does the Help for Premiere Pro (Kevin) is not in India.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 25, 2011 4:25 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd, I hope all my information is wrong...for your sake and the sake of the company.




    I welcome being totally wrong.

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 25, 2011 4:36 PM   in reply to able123





    if you can afford to fly to nyc and get a hotel room for a week.. I will personally guarantee that I will take you to every single stage in nyc ( on my own.. no need to get production permissions etc ).. and if you see one single instance of premiere pro being used on set I will eat my hat


    that said, you will soon figure out im sure how to fix that problem ( if its a problem at all ).


    you might have to reimburse me for gas and tolls etc as we travel around.... as I am currently unemployed and money is tight... but other than that... you have my guarantee... we visit sets and you get the real deal.



    on pan am tv ( soon to be cancelled probably ) you will maybe see maya

    on boardwalk empire you will ( it starts shooting next week I think ) see maya


    you wont see ae


    you will see fcp


    thats it, period.  if you know someone in hollywood its the same thing.. cause the people here are living in nyc and hollywood ... and working out of both places ..and send the stuff for editing to both coasts overnight etc... not using premiere pro.


    no offense but get with it already... if you want the market share ... go there and get it... and stop this nonsense about upgrades that hurt all the little people ( those like me with no clue whats really up )

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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 26, 2011 6:28 AM   in reply to able123

    First off,  I can assure you that Adobe has been all over the US for the last year working with various production facilities testing out Premiere Pro. There is a very large producer here in Atlanta with offices in New York and they have used AE extensively for years. They've also been on Avid and FCP seats for a few years, but they are (surprise surprise!) getting ready to roll over to Premeire Pro and the Creative Suite.


    Likewise, After Effects is in use all over the place. It's a fact.


    Now you and I may be talking about different kinds of productions, but even still, you cannot make such blanket statements. It'd be one thing if you claimed "very few places" as using Premiere Pro or AE. But you're offering a tour of places that would 100% exclude any use of these tools, and I think you maybe just aren't aware of all that goes on in every single production facility.


    There are very few absolutes in anything. And regardless of what is in use today, right now, this week....the tide has certainly turned against Apple, and Avid is not exactly on solid ground (though time will tell very soon). Adobe has momentum, and it's the same momentum that Apple had in the late 90's when everyone was saying "Avid is really think everyone's just going to switch off?"


    So don't make the mistake of thinking that past (or current) results are any kind of future outcomes. It's rarely true in anything, let alone technology.

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