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New upgrade policy for Adobe products

Nov 15, 2011 2:30 PM

  Latest reply: Bill Hunt, Jan 12, 2012 5:53 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 26, 2011 3:48 PM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    I think the biggest problem re: being on the same page here.. is that you think I dont want adobe to succeed and play a bigger part in the pro world.  The pro world ( as you elegantly expressed ) is changing all the time.

     

    If you think criticism is meant to belittle and crush the dreams of users of adobe products or the products themselves .. then we are not on the same page.

     

    I have cs3. I love it.  I use it when I can. I even jump thru hoops when necessary to use it... because of my own limitations re: computer, hardware, what cs3 supports natively and so on...

     

    I dont edit movies or tv commercials. I only work on them as a motion picture mechanic.

     

    So lets please stop talking at cross purposes. If I say, " india is where help is " I mean that's where the call center is at currently. Maybe tomorrow it will be in the Philipines.. ( the new hot place for outsourcing that stuff ). They make 300 / mo instead of 200 / mo.... and IMO its better to keep the work here in the U.S.A. and pay more for the employees, and charge more for the product if necessary to support that... but that's another story.

     

    The cloud and less hard copies of product and the registration of product ( with cloud ) and new upgrade thing IMO threatens the very job the employees here ( and their perks if any ) have.  It is their future I think of.. not mine... why should I care ??

    Cause they are my neighbors, as you are... and I want you to do well and I want the adobe employees to do well... and have some comfort and security bringing up their families ( supporting and so on ).

     

    At any rate, I realize this conversation is waaaay beyond the scope of any reconciliation re: strategy, tactics, logistics, and reality of corporate ( and users of product ) concerns....

     

    I'll just let you all tell me how great everything is and how I dont know whats going on in the real world... I have no investment in the outcome.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 11:34 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Okay, lets see if I get this...

     

    1) I have CS4 Design Premium

    2) I have to shell out $1100 to upgrade to Master Collection 5.5 before Dec 31st, 2011

    3) When CS6 comes out.... I will have to upgrade for how much to version 6?? ($1000 ?? - guessing)

     

    So, in a one years time, I could end up spending $2200 for a program that I have already paid $1200 for!

     

    Right?

     

    And lets not forget... if you choose to go the subscription route, the $49 subscriptions is not for the Master Collection (that is around $139 a month)

     

    This is where they finally "screw" us!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 11:49 AM   in reply to fwhilton

    As I read the announcment linked in in the original post above, the entire cloud, which includes all desktop apps (i.e. the master suite) are $49.99.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 12:04 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    No, go look at their site... Click the Master Collection product

    Click the "Buy" button and choose subscription from the drop down

     

    It is $139 paid monthly, $129 a month if you pay for the entire year

     

    They are not doing $49 a month for Master Collection. Because if they were, then entire industry would subscribe.

     

    THESE PEOPLE ARE CROOKS!!!

     

    It is time to jump ship.... Because they are going to shipwreck with these new policies!!

     

    Long LIVE OPEN SOURCE!!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM   in reply to fwhilton

    Stan is correct.

     

    The prices that fwhilton quoted are the current prices. The Creative Cloud prices that Stan mentioned take effect some time next year.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 12:08 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    So, a person can get the entire Master Collection for $49 a month ($588)

     

    I am confused, because for someone to just buy the software upgrades is double??

     

    How is that possible?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    can do your own investigating to try to figure out whats going on and what might " happen "...

     

    =========excerpts from various news items ======

     

    A while back there was a rumor that adobe was a potential takeover target for google.

     

    neither party would comment at the time

     

    check out the declining sales of pc's ( desktops ) and the percentage of adobe software in educational institutions etc ( a large part of market share ).

     

    note in excerpt below digital marketing ... cost savings

     

     

    excerpt

    ===========

     

    Adobe doesn't break out Flash in its earnings reports, but the Flash media player is woven throughout Adobe's programming tools, include its Adobe's Creative Suite software. Adobe late Tuesday said it would restructure its business to focus on digital media and marketing software, resulting in slower-than-expected revenue growth next year.

     

    "We now believe it's time to double down to accelerate growth in the two areas where we see the largest market opportunities, digital media and digital marketing," said Shantanu Narayen, Adobe's president and chief executive officer, at an analyst conference Wednesday.

     

    Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204358004577027923205009 352.html#ixzz1f7t0FmaO

    ================

     

     

    David Hilal, an analyst at FBR Capital Markets, pointed to the disappointing performance of Adobe Creative Suite 5, a product grouping that includes Adobe Photoshop and Acrobat, as a reason for concern.

    "The uncertainty of demand from these markets led management to provide lackluster guidance and makes us lower our expectations," Hilal wrote in an analysis, citing a lack of demand in both Japanese and domestic education markets.

    But not every analyst is bearish on the stock.

    "The Street is overly negative," said Jeff Gaggin, an analyst at Avian Securities who says he expects profits, excluding growth from any acquisitions, to increase more than 10% this year and next.

    Gaggin said the downturn in software sales resulting from a weak education market in the U.S. and Japan --an industry Adobe relies heavily upon --shouldn't come as a surprise, given the slumping demand for personal computers.

        0:00 /1:35Adobe heads for nosedive

    Shares of Adobe had jumped higher earlier this month, following news that Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500) had loosened its grip on app development for its mobile devices and would drop restrictions on what programming tools developers can use to create iOS apps.

    That move was expected to open the door for users to use tools from Apple's rivals -- most notably Adobe's Flash -- to build software for Apple's iPhones, iPads and iPods.

    But Gaggin said Adobe's focus on Google's Android operating system might be the key to future growth, as a slew of Android-equipped phones are set to hit the market this year.

    "I think if anything, it's the popularity of Android that actually favors Adobe ... success there could pressure Apple over time," Gaggin said.

    He added that the steep drop in Adobe's share price may make the company more attractive to firms that might be eyeing it for a takeover -- such as Google (GOOG, Fortune 500).

    "If you look at what Google is doing, they are going after Microsoft with Android against Windows, they are going into the browser arena with Chrome against Internet Explorer," he said. "I think that [an acquisition of Adobe] would make a lot of sense for Google."

    Both Adobe and Google said they would not comment on speculation.

    Trip Chowdhry, an analyst at Global Equities Research, dismissed the idea that Adobe is a takeover target. But he did think that corporate tech spending will pick up during the remainder of this year -- which should help Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 12:21 PM   in reply to fwhilton

    Okay... I have vented now. 

     

    Please explain to me how this is going to work.

     

    I have CS4 Design Premium

     

    What is involved with going into the cloud subscription when it is available?

    Do I have to upgrade my current version?

     

    Exactly how would I get to that point come next year.

     

    This is important to me, because I have just run out of unemployemnet benefits and I was looking to try a get a freelance side-jobs into a full time business.

    However, I don't have the funds to upgrade now. And to have to upgrade by Dec 31st and then turn around and -reupgrade is just way to much for me at this point.

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 12:35 PM   in reply to fwhilton

    I believe all you have to do is start the $49 per month membership even if you don't already have any Adobe software.  The catch is that, if you only buy a membership and don't purchase the software directly, you no longer have use of the software once the membership is up.  That differs from purchase/upgrade pricing in the fact that you OWN the version you buy and can use it forever if you decide not to ever upgrade again.   It's kind of like leasing a car instead of buying except you are leasing without the option to buy at the end of your lease.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 12:36 PM   in reply to AdobeNWB

    The subscription makes sense.

     

    But what about what I already own and paid for?

    Is it like starting from scatch?

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 1:11 PM   in reply to AdobeNWB

    looking into my crystal ball...

     

    markets:

    individuals with modest incomes who are sports enthusiasts etc ..( go pro, handycams etc )

     

    individuals who shoot events with modest client expenditure .. ( small conventions, weddings etc )

     

    small production companies doing local tv ads etc

     

    technology:

    lackluster pc sales offset by mobile devices and some gaming consoles.

     

    SD cameras become HD ... and DSLR's becoming more and more compatible ( competing with ) " pro " cameras with pricing coming down continously for those cameras ( so market grows )..

     

    pro stuff ( movies, tv production ) a totally different animal...but they too look to save money and cost and is a potential market for adobe products ( other than AE and photoshop only )

     

    =======

    soooo, the cloud stuff gives the market individuals in the first 2 groups a good deal.. as most of their work will be in populated areas where the internet is available 99% of the time...and if they upgrade their "cameras" the access to newest versions of adobe will help.

     

    the market of small productions benefits only if the upgrade policy gives them at least a couple years of product use before they lose discount for upgrade.  They aleady spent tons on equipment to shoot and light etc and can't change that equipment every time a new camera comes out onto market etc... and upgrade software to accomodate new codecs or workflows.

     

    productions for movies and international commercials etc " rent" their equipment and hire crews etc.. and is totally different.. with the cc stuff adobe may incorporate into products, and with more support from peripherals ( breakout boxes from nvidia cards with hd sdi outputs etc )... would allow adobe into the DIT and video playback areas of the "crew".. those items ( stations of DIT etc ) come with the technicians hired as "crew" ( they own the equipment and rent it to production when they work on the job ).. unless it is in camera composite stuff ( like posted in forum elsewhere ) in which case the equip is rented from vendor and comes with a "technician or 2 " to operate the stuff.

     

    The pro movie stuff is a niche ( small market ).. but a very important one...similar to professional graphic design and publishing used to be when apple and adobe worked together providing software for imagesetters ( postscript ).. was about 3% of total market but 99% of pro graphic market.  The programs back then were photoshop, quark xpress, etc... postscript....before going ahead and developing for true type fonts and " small business / home office " printing.

     

    Adobe employees need to be aware of what is happening to help guide the company so it not only benefits customers, but also generates demand and market so they ( as employees ) continue to " add value" to the company and future of its products.

     

    ============

    on a side note re: adding value to company.....

     

    once upon a time I rode the LIRR and didnt have time to get my ticket from the machine on the platform.. so the conductor / ticket taker on train sold me a ticket that was about 40% higher in price than the cost from machine. The idea is " less selling of tickets on train, saves time ".. The machines on platform allow for the little "huts" on the platforms to be closed ( no longer open to riders to purchase tickets ).. which means less employees for LIRR ( nobody in hut anymore ).

    The conductor who sold me the ticket kinda "sneered" at me when I told him I didnt have time to buy the ticket at the machine... and seemed to enjoy charging me so much more.

    I asked him to give me a moment of his time, and explained to him that what the LIRR was doing, by making the employees obsolete in the huts and less conductors / ticket takers on trains ( cause they dont waste time selling tickets...)... lessens the amount of monies from employees paying into their retirement and health plans. That means that eventually, with half the amount of employees to support those already retired and who hope to retire someday .. they will run out of money.  That means they will have to pay more for benefits and to balance that they will have to forego raises in the future.. All in all, what often looks wonderful to some people doesnt really do all that much for anyone at all.

    The riders of LIRR no longer can go into hut to stay out of rain and snow.

    The riders will pay ( eventually ) just as much for ticket from machine.. the hook to use them has been set.

    The employees of LIRR will someday cry a lot and ask for customer support... but all the sneering didnt help.

    The costs of running the LIRR ( compared to labor costs and its workforce in general ) is HUGE ( the real impact of labor costs on MTA is negligible as a percentage of overall costs )

     

    OK.. thats my little sample of why the LIRR is just the greatest and most reliable service in the history of trains.

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 1:36 PM   in reply to fwhilton

    However, I don't have the funds to upgrade now. And to have to upgrade by Dec 31st and then turn around and -reupgrade is just way to much for me at this point.

    I hear that. My upgrade history was I don't remember what first version of Premiere to PR 6.5 to PR something to CS3 to CS4 just in time to get CS5 also. Can't justify CS5.5. Sooner rather than later, this will (again) become a hobby/retirement activity. So can I afford a $600 payment per year? It doesn't really matter that it comes with more options. That could just be too steep.

     

    While still making money at this, yes, I can look at it as a business expense.

     

    Your scenario is interesting. To get a perpetual license for your same product (Design Premium), you upgrade to CS5.5 Design Premium ($649), then you are eligible to buy CS6 at upgrade pricing (which we don't know). Let's say it will be the $399 it costs to go from CS5 to CS5.5 Design Premium. So about $1,050.

     

    Yes, if you want to get up to the Master Collection, you have to bite the MC bullet: $1,399 to from DPCS4 to MCCS5.5, then the upgrade to MCCS6 - currently $549 from CS5 go CS5.5. Or a total of about $1,950.

     

    Or, it appears to me that you can do nothing, then pay about $600 per year (at the current proposal's pricing) to get more than MC's apps. But your fallback if you can't make the $600 a year (or whatever that will be in some future pricing), is CS4 Design Premium.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 3:09 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    ===========

    Or, it appears to me that you can do nothing, then pay about $600 per year (at the current proposal's pricing) to get more than MC's apps.

    ===========

    ya, and depending on personal situation with clients and need for program etc ( newest versions and complete suite )... there is THIS aspect... not that I wanna be the voice of doom and gloom all the time...

     

    one more "person" has his hand in your pocket taking money out every month from your checking acct ( debit mastercard etc ) or credit card acct...

     

    If you pay off your balance of credit card every month..no interest.  If if floats ...some interest.. no big deal.

     

    But if you're like ME... I keep what I need in checking to cover costs per mo... and not much more.. as I get no interest from that acct.  But it's free.. its a nice bank .

     

    But I actually GO THERE and deposit checks and keep track of all my banking stuff pretty close...

    But I would be lying if I told you SOMEBODY didnt surprise me once in a while... like my ISP and domain name provider deducting monies for year without sending me an email to let me know it was gonna happen...

    Luckily I was never overdrawn or had problem.. but I like to know exactly whats up with money going in and out of accts every month.

     

    What if something terrible happens with your acct ( that adobe has hands into ) one month and your acct doesnt have the balance to pay even the little monthly charge ?  Or your banks internet connection is down for upgrades for that 'DAY' that adobe submits the debit ??  Or whatever....

     

    Does your monthly subscription stop immediately and you cant do your little friendly " internet handshake " to use the software... ???? Oh.. let me guess.. they will send you snail mail to let you know your payment didnt go through and you have 30 days to make the payment OK ??

     

    give me a break !

     

    plus ... to make it more fun... that goes on your credit report.. !!!

     

    LOL

     

     

    ps.. and here's another thing... re: credit and debiting etc.. in case there's any financial geniuses reading this...

    it comes to pass that to provide the "service" of yearly subscription on time ( against state banking laws re: revolving accts ) that it is legal and OK for adobe to deduct the mo. fee a week or 10 days ( or in some cases 1 month ) ahead of actually providing the "service".

    That is so they can "clear" the checks, debits and credits etc...deal with problems from collection of monies from clients.  Its not immediate...you pay, you get service...

    what does this do ? It allows adobe to set up accounts that actually have "free and cleared" monies sitting there for many days before they actually provide the service they promised ( not that adobe would do this... this is hyperthetical as per what car insurance companies currently do ).

     

    That means adobe can invest that " clump " of money in short term govt securities etc ( 30 day notes etc using OTC ).. and roll over it's investment vs return, against the leverage of the overall " clump "...

    It means you give money to someone and let them use it ( multiplied by thousands of people like YOU ... think of the money held ) before they need to provide the service.

    Now they invest some money into the cloud servers etc but they ( typical for any business ) wait till those servers are clogged up with traffic and bandwitdth problems before they uprade the systems to deliver the products and service. etc.

     

    This whole deal is to me a nightmare in the making.. what happens when movies and tv shows and so on go onto the internet for every outlet ?? theatres and tvs and cable and so on.. and the whole system finally is not fast enough ( even fiber optic is over burdened ) ??  You think the internet is not going to have glitches etc ??? to provide cloud ??? You think China and other countries dont control that stuff locally through their nodes and software etc ??? what a joke...

     

    We are becoming way too dependent on stuff we have no control over .. and happily giving a company ( in this case ) a free hand into pocket on promise the delivery system and handshake and all that is going to last.  I have a good idea.. send ME your $49 per month for a year and I will provide YOU with XXX... really !  I mean it... you can TRUST ME !

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 3:51 PM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Sorry, I was out for a bit. Did I miss anything?

     

    Oh....oh my....okay. Nevermind. Y'all figure this out, I'm going to go grab a bite and be back later.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 4:57 PM   in reply to able123
    one more "person" has his hand in your pocket taking money out every month from your checking acct ( debit mastercard etc ) or credit card acct...

     

    The link at the top says "price of XXX per month ... for an annual plan."

     

    I interpreted this to mean no monthly withdrawals, but a single payment. Has Adobe indicated what this means? Sorry if I missed discussion of this above.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2011 7:48 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    ya.. its gotta be like cable tv or something like that.. telephone svc etc..

    monthly charge, annual plan is the "price locked in for year".. then when your year approaches deadline they send notice to renew your plan at XXX per month ... thats how I would do it if I were them..

    who would pay for the whole year ahead of time in one lump sum ??  it just becomes a " monthly bill " ...probably paid for a week or so before the service actually starts ( to clear the money and all that ).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 13, 2011 6:38 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    I think it is interesting that you can call a 10% or 20% discount "STEEP" but think that forcing CreativeSuite customers into an expensive and unwanted upgrade costing hundreds of dollars is not unreasonable.  I will certainly be taking a second look at Quark products.  With regret.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 13, 2011 10:50 AM   in reply to dovign

    I'm a bit confused.  Does the new upgrade policy apply only to the suites?

     

    If I now own Premiere Pro CS4 (just PPro, and not a subscription) and want to upgrade to Premiere Pro CS6 (just PPro, and not a subscription), there will be no upgrade price?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 13, 2011 3:11 PM   in reply to Peru Bob

    I think the answer is "yes."

     

    From the link in the op above, see the phrase "individual point products":

     

    • For customers who prefer to remain on the current licensing model, we will continue to offer our individual point products and Adobe Creative Suite editions as perpetual licenses. With regards to upgrades, we are changing our policy for perpetual license customers. In order to qualify for upgrade pricing when CS6 releases, customers will need to be on the latest version of our software (either CS5 or CS5.5 editions). If our customers are not yet on those versions, we’re offering a 20% discount through December 31, 2011 which will qualify them for upgrade pricing when we release CS6.
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 14, 2011 12:49 AM   in reply to Stan Jones

    "In order to qualify for upgrade pricing when CS6 releases, customers will need to be on the latest version of our software (either CS5 or CS5.5 editions). If our customers are not yet on those versions, we’re offering a 20% discount through December 31, 2011 which will qualify them for upgrade pricing when we release CS6."

     

    So you are in effect forcing all customers who would have upgraded less frequently to cough up in December and again in the new year or pay the FULL price!. No chance to adjust to a new policy (if at all this should have been done on the 6-7 upgrade) - just pay up or get out and pay even more if you want to get back in later. Adobe have shown their true colours. No customer loyalty. Its all about money.

    Well thanks a bunch for giving many of your long term users a kick in the ***********, that is quite mercenary. Certainly makes me start to look at other options. I guess with the death of Flash Adobe are panicking about revenue. But fleecing your long term customers to jack up the coffers is very much the wrong way to go. No point in sending feature suggestion to Adobe any more - they obviously don't value their customers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 14, 2011 8:29 AM   in reply to Paul_Taylor

    There seems to be a misunderstanding....long term users and long term customers are not the same thing. Someone who has not bought product from Adobe in over two years is not really a long term customer. Someone who downloaded the software for free 10 years ago (pirated) could be considered a long-term user, though. Customers spend money....users, well....they use. There's a difference, just thought I should clarify that.

     

    Again, should be emphasized here that Adobe is not forcing anyone to upgrade with the next version, not any more or less than they ever have. However, people who have kept up with the upgrades each time (the "long term customers") are being given a better upgrade discount than people who only purchase from Adobe every 3-5 years. CS5, which is eligible for the cheapest upgrade prices (along with CS5.5) was shipped 18 months ago, and it will have been 24 months by the time CS6 comes out. I'm estimating to have completed 120 projects in that time frame, easily enough to justify upgrade costs (although I still remain on CS5, not 5.5, so I've saved a few hundred bucks myself).

     

    I appreciate the effort that is ongoing here, which is to petition Adobe to change their plans or phase this policy in some way or another. And maybe Adobe will do just that, or maybe not. But the groundswell is coming largely from users that have not felt the need to upgrade for a long time - and that is fine, not everyone NEEDS to upgrade every single time. But these people are therefore not in Adobe's current pool of customers for the last 2-3 years. So I'd ask, does Adobe, as a company, really have much incentive to listen to the pleas of people who may not even upgrade anyway, as they have not done so for some time? And if we want to look beyond just the business decisions, should Adobe really consider you their "friend" and take care of you if they haven't heard from you in a few years? Seems some people are demanding loyalty without any return on their part. It's a two way street, I learned about loyalty by the time I was 8 at least, but as a business owner now, I fully understand that your relationship with your customers goes both ways, and I always reward my best clients differently than those that I only hear from every other year or two.

     

    As for other options outside Adobe, Photoshop has been out on the market for a couple of decades now and found very little competition. This is just a fact. Same could almost be said of Illustrator I suppose...possibly for Dreamweaver, and nowadays InDesign to a degree, certainly for Acrobat, and why not even After Effects? Adobe has a proven set of tools that have yet to find their match at any price or feature set. The closest competition was Macromedia, but that wasn't direct competition in most areas, more of a complementary toolset - which is why it was smart for Adobe to acquire them way back when.

     

    My suggestion for anybody who is out there looking to purchase digital content creation tools is to get the best set of tools to help you get your work done. If you have found a set of tools that helps you work better than the Adobe products, you really ought to be using those tools (and telling other people about them). Otherwise, bickering over a difference of $1,000 (I really hope these tools help you earn much more than that every year) seems like little more than a rattling drum.

     

    I still haven't gotten an answer to some of my earliest questions....does nobody else remember back not too many years ago (I'm not THAT old...) when upgrade prices were only available for the most recent version, no matter what? Does anybody remember how much more all of these tools used to cost just a few years ago? Am I the only person who sees the DOWNWARD trend in these costs (besides the investors)? Calling what Adobe does these days "mercenary" is an insult to the term itself.

     

    I keep telling myself I'm going to jump out of this thread for good....maybe this time I mean it? Nah...probably not.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 14, 2011 10:16 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    There seems to be a misunderstanding....long term users and long term customers are not the same thing. Someone who has not bought product from Adobe in over two years is not really a long term customer.

    I think I was a good long term customer even when I sat out various upgrades. Adobe did too by providing different options for upgrading based on age of product. I agree this is a useful concept. Adobe, by dropping the in-between upgrade pricing, is redefining this relationship.

     

    But the groundswell is coming largely from users that have not felt the need to upgrade for a long time - and that is fine, not everyone NEEDS to upgrade every single time.

    I don't know about groundswell; I am not in that group, but realize that as I enter retirement from part-time video production, that I prefer owning a suite that I can continue with rather than $600 per year to continue using. While it is tempting to think that Adobe only cares about the full time professionals, I'll bet they have a good idea what amount of their income is from part-time, hobbyists, etc. And their apparent judgement is that they'll keep sufficient market share to warrant the change of model. Time will tell.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 14, 2011 1:06 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    ==========

    While it is tempting to think that Adobe only cares about the full time professionals, I'll bet they have a good idea what amount of their income is from part-time, hobbyists, etc.

    ========

    that is the bulk of their market...not professional..

     

    eg... pro market in general is about 10% of total use of products like photoshop, quark xpress, for print ( offset press work ).. and adobe has 99% of that market ( 99 % of the pro market 'in photoshop' )...

    unfortunately its a very small portion of the overall market which is made up of " small business " mostly ( printing on machines in house ...not offset work ).

     

    same is true generally re: pro for editing ( for adobe ) except that adobe has only about 2% of that pro market instead of 99% of print market ...

     

    so basically...some adobe products enjoy big market share in both pro and small biz world ( eg. photoshop ).. and other products dont.

     

    if you go to the adobe company website and do a little looking..you'll see articles and statements by the president about this recent decision re: upgrades and business ' model' etc... ( in which he plainly states it was a very difficult decision to make )...

     

    adobe is going to SaaS system... ( software as a service )... and putting a ton of money into that transformation. you can imagine maybe how that will effect the company re: hard copies and availability of product in your local computer software stores etc...and the registration process, licensing etc.

    In a nutshell... if you want the product as a hard copy you'll probably have to order it from adobe instead of getting it in the stores.. ( the bulk of the pro users will have to do that )

    The others will get it as a service ( annual subscription ).

     

    its a big change but may work well for adobe as it cuts a lot of costs for them and puts them in position to deal with where they want to go 5-10 years down the road.

     

    anyway, look at the company web site.. look at what positions are available now ( employment opportunity ) and so on...get idea what the company is doing...

    I found it interesting to do maybe you will too ?

     

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 8:15 PM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    Christian Jolly wrote:

     

    I appreciate the effort that is ongoing here, which is to petition Adobe to change their plans or phase this policy in some way or another. And maybe Adobe will do just that, or maybe not.

     

    Actually, they did just that... some significant news out today

     

        Adobe Listens to Customers, Defers Big Changes to CS6 Upgrade Policy

     

    So this should hopefully reduce some of these hard questions, at least for 2012.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 8:54 PM   in reply to ProDesignTools

    Thank you for that update and the link - as always, greatly appreciated!

     

    Hunt

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 11:10 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    I couldn't disagree with you more about the long term customer debate. My mother works at a car dealership and she's always telling me about long term customers that only buy cars at her dealership. They don't buy cars there every single year but they have bought there last say 4 or 5 cars from them and they get treated as such. They are the people my mother considers long term and I agree with her completely. I think you're confusing "frequent" and "long term" customers to suit your needs in this debate. If i've been buying Adobe products for the last 10 to 15 years I'm a long term customer (even if I don't purchase every year), if I buy there product every year I'd be a frequent customer both of which leaves room for me to be a loyal customer. 

     

    I'll just add i'm one of the people that needs to stay somewhat current (was on CS4) for my small business, I recently got my armed twisted by Adobe to upgrade to 5.5 so that I could stay within there new policy guidelines they sprung on us. My arguement is not whether the policy is fair or not (it's their business to do with as they see fit), it's that they tried to change it at the 11th hour instead of letting people know far in advance to give them time to decide what's best for them, and when it's a policy that can have you drop a thousand dollars on a dime it's important enough they should have done it differently. Obviuosly they realize that now because they backpedled out of it. But... what about the people they caught in there crappy last minute policy change in the first place.. are we just collateral damage for dumb boardroom decisions?

     

    See now if I want to be able to keep within there new policies I have to buy CS6 which is right around the corner, even though I just purchased 5.5 recently. At some point in the near future I have to purchase CS6 to keep my upgrade path going, so why on earth would I not buy 6 right after it comes out and get at least a years worth of use out of it instead of a few months (like I now have to do with 5.5). I'm happy that you sound like you've got the money for such things, I sadly do not have that kind of cash laying around. Even if I did have it lying around I don't know if someone saying "hey you, give me a thousand dollars and I'll be back in a week to get a thousand more" would sit well with me.

     

    In a perfect world, they would have announced there policy change to be what it is now and let people have time to upgrade as the change is drastic. What they did was basically say "hey you, upgrade right now to keep current although right around the corner this is outdated software and upgrade again very shortly to keep current again and this time get some use out of your new purchase. That's just wrong. Adobe fix this buy giving people who just got caught in your mess (November 2011 policy change) the option to upgrade to CS6 for a very very low cost or free for that matter. It's the least you can do for your screw up.

     

    Bad policy is bad policy in my mind, the bottom line is they gave us almost no time to upgrade something that had been policy to be upgradable for years to come. So yeah I "had" to upgrade based on there new policy... the one they just backed away from. This is a good reason I think many I know pirate their software.

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 12:56 PM   in reply to 5funnels

    Hi Funnels, we would suggest contacting Adobe Customer Support with the issue on 800-833-6687, or on Twitter @Adobe_Care

     

    Also keep in mind that with Adobe's tiered upgrade pricing, future upgrades should cost significantly less for you with CS5.5 than customers with older versions.

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 5:53 PM   in reply to 5funnels

    Funnels,

     

    I feel much the same, as some of the clients at your mother's car dealership. I find the best suppliers for me, and try to stick with them, until they run me down the road. That was how it was with photo labs - I did not care about their unit prices, and ONLY about their quality and service, which reflected directly on me, and made my client's lives much easier. I would never even bother to review unit prices, until it came time to adjust my rates to reflect increases. A few $'s here, was never something that I really cared about, so long as everything was 100% for my clients. Let a lab mess up for a client, and all hell broke loose. Then, I would sit down with the owner (seldom worked with any sales rep), and if they could not make everything right, plus guarantee that my clients' work got 100% of their attention, I then moved on. Same with the Mercedes dealership - so long as they treat me, and my wife, perfectly, I will continue to buy from them, with but a few questions asked.

     

    Now, for decades, I have used Adobe software, and for most programs, always followed the upgrade paths, as those allowed me to do more for my clients, and usually in less time. There were a few gaps, but not many, and I own many, many Adobe programs.

     

    Now that I have retired, I am a tad less inclined to just grab the next upgrade, because it offers a few things. I skipped PrPro CS3 (too many issues being reported, and not much to help me), and then CS4, as I waited for things to sort out there. Now, I have upgraded, as there are enough things to intice me. It might be the same with CS6, but only time will tell.

     

    In my current position, I will likely be less inclined to upgrade to each issue, as it will mostly be for my personal use, and also to allow me to help in the Adobe Forums. Still, I will follow the Adobe upgrade threads, as they may, or may not, affect me directly. At least now, the clients are out of the picture.

     

    Hunt

     
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