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Tom Pinkerton
Currently Being Moderated

Adjustment brush with exposure setting cancels noise reduction

Nov 14, 2011 11:39 AM

Tags: #raw #camera #brush #adjustment #noise #6.5 #reduction

Hello,

 

I just noticed the following problem:

 

1) Camera Raw 6.5; Bridge CS5 (4.0.5.11); Mac OS X 10.6.8; Mac Pro 3,1; Dual Quad-Core Xeon; 8GB RAM.

2) Start with a noisy raw file (mine is from a Canon 5D II).

3) Apply Noise Reduction (Luminance:30; Lum Detail:75; Lum Contrast:0; Color:25; Color Detail:50).

4) Go to Adjustment Brush and set a non-zero Exposure value.

5) Apply brush to image and notice the Noise Reduction effects disappear (noise returns).

6) Click Clear All button to clear Adjustment Brush and Noise Reduction works again.

 

This seems to only happen with Adjustment Brushes with a non-zero Exposure value (applying brightness or other settings don't seem to produce the problem).

 

Anyone else seeing this?

 

Thanks!

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 14, 2011 2:21 PM   in reply to Tom Pinkerton

    How about if the image is opened in Photoshop or saved out, does the noise reduction stick or not?  It may be just an ACR display issue.

     

    Richard Southworth

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 14, 2011 2:34 PM   in reply to Tom Pinkerton

    I can't reproduce this on a PC with Camera Raw 6.5.

     

    Maybe you should do some screen grabs and put them up to show exactly what you're seeing.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 14, 2011 3:09 PM   in reply to Tom Pinkerton

    Tom Pinkerton wrote:

     

    …3) Apply Noise Reduction (Luminance:30; Lum Detail:75; Lum Contrast:0; Color:25; Color Detail:50).

    4) Go to Adjustment Brush and set a non-zero Exposure value.

    5) Apply brush to image and notice the Noise Reduction effects disappear (noise returns).

    6) Click Clear All button to clear Adjustment Brush and Noise Reduction works again.

     

    This seems to only happen with Adjustment Brushes with a non-zero Exposure value (applying brightness or other settings don't seem to produce the problem)…

     

     

    I would absolutely expect an Exposure adjustment of any kind to have an effect on noise.  The first thing that comes to mind is to apply any such brush adjustment before any noise reduction. 

     

    Beyond that, it's possible that the noise reduction ceases to be visible while you are working with the brush, but does it return once you leave the adjustment brush tool or not?

     

    Wish I had a noisy Canon image file to experiment with  , maybe you could post one?

     

    However, above all, it seems only natural to apply any brush adjustment before any noise reduction.

     

    Just my ¢2.

     

     

    ____________

    Wo Tai Lao Le

    我太老了

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2011 9:00 AM   in reply to Tai Lao

    People with Canon cameras are pickier than people with whatever kind of camera you have, Ramon.   What we call "unacceptable noise" you call "character" in your images.    Just kidding!

     

    And as far as I know the order in which you apply things in Camera Raw doesn't affect the rendering.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2011 8:58 AM   in reply to Tom Pinkerton

    I tried to reproduce what you did with a high ISO night shot of my own, using the same settings you chose, and I couldn't get any more noise to show.  Perhaps it's camera-specific or system-specific.  There may be stuff that kicks in or out depending on performance to speed up the display of zoomed-out data, but in your case since you say the noise actually makes it into the converted image, it sounds like a bona fide bug!

     

    ACRNoiseIssue1.jpg

     

    ACRNoiseIssue2.jpg

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 15, 2011 10:07 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    There was a similar issue concerning usage of brush. Changing exposure of the brush to nonzero value changed rendering of the highlights of the whole image (not just brushed part). I reported it here I think a year ago and Eric responded it was a known issue and limitation of current implementation of the brush. I don't know was it addressed in last versions (didn't try)

     

    However, I also tried to reproduce this NR issues, but on 32bit XP version it seems to be ok (and images from my Canon compact cameras are obviously quite noisy)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 17, 2011 5:49 PM   in reply to Tom Pinkerton

    There are some known issues with the local exposure adjustment leading to global changes in image appearance, notably in the highlights.  The issue with noise should already be fixed with the ACR 6.6 release candidate (RC), currently available.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 14, 2011 12:27 PM   in reply to Tom Pinkerton

    The issue Tom describes continues to happen with my raw files.  I convert Canon cr2 files to DNG on import.  If I use the graduated filter or adjustment brush in Camera Raw to make exposure adjustments, noise reduction is cancelled in the preview unless I am adjusting a slider.  In other words, while I am physically moving a slider, noise reduction is applied, but when I release the slider, noise reduction is cancelled, although it is again applied when I save the image to jpeg.  This makes it extremely difficult to work on high ISO images. I have updated to ACR 6.6.  That did not help.  Any suggestions?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 14, 2011 1:49 PM   in reply to Chris Crevasse

    For the purposes of evaluating noise reduction, the current solution is to zoom to 1:1.  NR will always be applied in that case, and it will be the most accurate rendition for the purposes of evaluating the quality of the NR.

     

    Eric

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 15, 2011 2:34 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    Thanks, Eric, but the issue is not evaluating noise reduction; the issue is working on other aspects of the image in other panels.  For instance, in the Basics panel, after I have used the adjustment brush or graduated filter, no noise reduction is applied unless I am adjusting a slider.  When I release the slider, noise reduction is cancelled.  This makes it very difficult to make basic adjustments such as exposure and contrast.  Why is noise reduction cancelled in the preview after using the adjustment brush or graduated filter?

     
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