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gnorthridge@msn.com
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LR 4 seems sluggish

Jan 10, 2012 2:11 PM

I've installed LR4 64-bit under Windows 7 (64-bit) running on a quad-core i7 (Model 860 at 2.8 GHz) system with 8GB of memory.  LR4 seems very sluggish compared to v3.6.  For example, when I move the Exposure slider, there is a noticable delay (perhaps half a second) before the preview image displays the new setting.  When moving any of the sliders in v3.6 the response always seems to be immediate.  I realize that the Exposure slider now functions in a completely different manner in LR4, but should the response time to setting changes be so sluggish?  Is anyone else seeing this?

 
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:15 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    PV2012 is definitely more processor intensive than the previous PV, however there are still some bugs in this performance area (some significant) and there is still time for optimization of the algorithms.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:19 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    I'm seeing the same sluggishness on my system as well. I'm Windows 7 64bit dual-core 2.6GHz with 4GB of memory. Definitely a noticeable delay for any adjustments.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:24 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    gnorthridge@msn.com wrote:

     

    For example, when I move the Exposure slider, there is a noticable delay (perhaps half a second) before the preview image displays the new setting.  When moving any of the sliders in v3.6 the response always seems to be immediate. 

    Sadly, this is my day-to-day experience with 3.6 and earlier.  Despite having a quad-core Mac Pro (2008) running Snow Leopard (heard too much negative about Lion), 64-bit, and 16GB RAM with plenty of drive space (and fast drives at that) I still deal with molasses-level performance in Lightroom that infuriates me.  Even gone so far as to add an SSD drive (OWC Mercury) that is dedicated to just the OS and apps.  Granted, it's not a brand new machine but is still eminently capable with four cores of processing and lots of memory.  I don't run anything other than the OS when I'm editing in LR.  Changes are never in real-time, always lag behind the adjustment.  Likewise the stroke of an adjustment brush.  The crop tools takes a couple seconds or more before it functions.  And this even following a fresh, clean OS install and deleting preferences files.  I've even taken to running multiple, smaller catalogues to no avail.  My latest effort is creating a temporary "working" catalogue running off the SSD with the intent to import and edit there, and then import the works into my master catalogue.  Still, no joy.

     

    Every version of Lightroom I hope for something better.  Don't know if I have a hardware gremlin or what the issue is but it drives me nuts.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:35 PM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    Slider responsiveness is sensitive to the vector speed of a single core.  It's not very sensitive at all to things like SSDs, amount of memory (assuming you have enough for one image, and if you don't, you probably have 1GB), or number of cores.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:38 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    Lee Jay wrote:

     

    Slider responsiveness is sensitive to the vector speed of a single core.

    Then I would include that among the top of my LR5 requests - architecture that uses ALL available cores.  Given that multi-core systems are now the standard (?) this seems an odd waste of resources to me.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:41 PM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    Jay Mitchosky wrote:

     

    Lee Jay wrote:

     

    Slider responsiveness is sensitive to the vector speed of a single core.

    Then I would include that among the top of my LR5 requests - architecture that uses ALL available cores.  Given that multi-core systems are now the standard (?) this seems an odd waste of resources to me.

     

    It does use all the cores, where applicable (previews, export, etc.).  But the processing pipeline for the sliders is a bit more, well, like a pipeline.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 2:46 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    You know, I just did a test and it was trying to use about 80% of my cores during slider action.  So maybe it's more parallel than I thought.

     

    I know that my Sandy Bridge i7 processor is spectacularly faster than my previous Core2, and still quite a lot faster than my Core i5.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 3:03 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    This is interesting.  Imported some previously edited RAW files into the beta.  On LR4 it went something like this...

     

    1) Move slider

    2) Count off 1 to 1 1/2 seconds

    3) See a result

     

    Was showing up to around 75% of all four cores involved in processing.  After doing this a few times obviously my image was a disaster so I reset it.  Strangely, the sliders were then more responsive.  Not quite real-time but tracked relatively close with the slider adjustment, a fraction of a second lag.  Same goes with my nemesis: The Crop Tool.  Tap R and I have immediate access to crop functionality whereas before (and always in 3.6) I would go into the tool and wait 2 seconds or so before I could actually use it.

     

    I don't know the significance of that but in my case, on this image, a reset to the LR4B defaults restored much better functionality.  Will keep playing.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 3:27 PM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    Clarity is slower to respond than the tonal sliders.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 3:36 PM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    There's a bug where an upgraded image (from PV10 to PV12) is very slow, compared to a freshly imported image.  This sounds like it could be that one.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 3:42 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    I am sure that code optimization will effect this for the better as the beta move forward towards fully baked, but I'll throw in here as well:

     

     

    I am seeing a massive slowdown in a new library with 38 newly imported RAW test images: move the slider and wait 1-2 seconds before change is displayed. 3.6 on same machine is almost instantaneous… changing as the slider moves. It is such a difference that I will make an adjustment and then go to make a bigger one thinking that the first one wasn't enough to really register, only to realize that the first one hadn't updated yet.

     

     

    3Ghz Quad core / 12 GB ram / Snow Leopard

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 3:49 PM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    Becomes slower and slower the more adjustments you stack onto it.  But I'll tell ya, there is some serious power in those new sliders for independent control of shadows and highlights.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 3:55 PM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    I'm also seeing sluggishness on newly import raw files, and a reset doesn't make any difference for me. I would agree there is some serious power in the new sliders, but performance needs to be much better to be acceptable.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 4:07 PM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    I agree with you on the power of the sliders. Sluggishness aside, once I re-oriented to the new slider paradigm, I was able to get results that before I would fiddle for hours trying to get and never be happy.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 4:19 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    On my system 3.6 slider changes are near instantaneous where with 4 i have to wait 1-5 seconds for things to take effect. It's pretty impossible to get any real work done right now when I have to wait 4-5 second for every small adjustment. Or maybe I'm just spoiled by 3.6. It's most obvious changing sliders on  adjustment brushes. This is on Phenom II X4 945 with 8GB memory and windows 7, it's a low end i7/high end i5 equivalent.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 4:27 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    yes, I agree absolutely.. LR4 has probably a much more complex algorithm to achieve all the common light (new) adjustments, which are all linked together. Features are fine but even with an i5 Core/2.66 Ghz with 16 Gb RAM and OS X 10.7.2 is very slow, difficult to use. When you have to adjust "geometric" sliders, response is coming very late and you don't know in which direction to correct more precisely , simply because the big delay between command and response.

     

    When you reset all previous adjustments, system seems to work much more faster and fluent.. Sure that highlight/shadow adjustment possibility is really improved.

     

    I had a repeated crash of LR4 when clicking simply on lens adjustments tab but some time later without doing anything, it's working fine ! Hope it will last.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 4:55 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    Sluggish here as well, most develop module sliders, healing brush etc.  Significantly slower than 3.6.

     

    Windows 7, 64 bit, i7 2600 16gb

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 5:12 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    I Installed LR4 Beta today on 3 Machines. I worked on 5DMKII raw files. dng and cr2 files.

     

    Here are the hardware settings:

     

    1: I7 930 overclocked to 3.8ghz , 128gb ssd as boot disk, 3 raid 0 disks (6 x 1.5TB) for datas and as scratch disk for cash and so one, 12gb ram, nvidia gtx570, win7 x64 ultimate

    2: same as nr one, just a quadro 4000 as grapics card.

    3: mac pro with 2 intel xeon 6 core prozessors, 12gb ram and ati hd 5870, osx 10.7.2 lion

     

    Conclusion. When working in Process 2010, everything works realtime, fluid, perfekt. switching to process 2012 it is simply AWFUL. moving a slider and 1/2 - to 1 second untill i can see the results in the pictures. it gets realy bad, when i turn on the sharpness and the lens correction. it is simply not possible to work on this piece of software. completely useless at this stage.

     

    These are pretty high end machines with a lot of power. i know lr4 is BETA, but the performance must grow about 800%, or lr4 will be useless for a smooth workflow.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 5:16 PM   in reply to frankc1978

    Did you upgrade these images from PV2010?

     

    Try resetting those images and working on them.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 9:19 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    How do you get to use PV10? For me Lightroom 4 wasn't able to import my Lightroom 3 catalogue. I worked on a brand new copy of my images and I saw all the new sliders from the start so I assume I was always in PV12 and still see the slowness. I would love to play with a lot of the new features but it's so hard when you move a slider and you don't know for several seconds whether the change was subtle that you mised it or whether it hasnt happened yet.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 9:23 PM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    You can chose from any of the process variations (original, 2010 circa LR3, and 2012 circa LR4B) in the Calibration panel, right at the top.  Problem is the only way you have access to the new sliders is under PV12, hence kinda useless.

     

    Was doing some editing tonight and am very impressed with the new level of control, but painfully painfully slow in operation the more edits you stack up.  And when you start having multiple adjustment brushes running it gets worse.  Add the spot healing tool as another slowpoke.  Praying this isn't representative of the final optimization and performance as for anything other than a few shots it would become unuseable.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 12:20 AM   in reply to Lee Jay

    Hey Lee!

     

    I resetted the pictures and indeed it became a little bit faster, but just a liiiitle bit. It were files i worked on previously on lr3.

     

    Today i imported completely fresh pictures out of cam and it was a little bit faster from the beginning on. a little bit faster means - a LITTLE bit, but to be honest also much, much, much too slow for a nice workflow.

     

    Thanks for the tipp anyway - every step that makes a software better is a step forward!

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 1:39 AM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    Curiously I don't have any painfully operation with stacking up brush operations.. nomore than with LR3 (same image, but resetting all adjustments when working with LR4 in this case !). Lens corrections are still VERY very slow.! I don't think, although I wish and hope it, a deep algorithm change with LR4 at this development stage now, will occur..?

     

    A big issue in my case and I think it will be for many users, is the fact you can't import and/or convert LR3 libraries..? Or I missed something perhaps ?

     

    Just for fun and to see differences, I switched a "developped" RAW file from 2012 to 2010 : you don't get the result similar to LR3 with related adjustments.. and when you swith back to 2012, you don't get back the "2012" adjustments made previously. You have to go to history to restore initial LR4 adjustments.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 1:44 AM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    I thought it was just me, but yes LR4 beta is sluggish. (iMac 2.8Ghz Intel Core i7, RAM 16GB 1067 MhZ DD3, Snow Leopard 10.6.8)

    If that's not improved considerable then regardless of the new features I won't upgrade - I've used LR since the beginnings. (LR3 is not always that responsive when keywording, without intermittent optimisation of the catalogue; anything that adds to hganging/waiting time is to be avoided nowadays!)

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 4:15 AM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    With LR3 beta it was exactly the same. Very sluggish as beta - very fast as a final version. We will have to wait until they optimize it properly - and it always takes a lot of time and is done at the last stages of development.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 4:30 AM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    Have to say not suffering the speed issues mentioned here like I did with LR3 Beta..

     

    PC:

    i7 930 clocked

    12GB ram

    twin GTX560's

    etc

     

    Jon

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 11:16 PM   in reply to dlimageworks

    Beta 4 was great yesterday. Had both LR3 and 4 running side by side for comparison. Imported a few folders of original images. Made adjustments on several problem images to see how they compared to LR3. I was very happy, in a few seconds got better results. Even posted a few on +. Tonight I was playing with more images and experienced the same thing as dimageworks. Very slow, slider won't even move for a second, then it will jump. Then I might as well go get a beer before the image changes. I've shut down all other programs, rebooted, same old slug.

    MacBook Pro 2.33 3gig ram

     

    I'll play some more and see what happens.

     

    Jim

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 11:28 PM   in reply to Jim Stamates

    Update: I am running LR3 in 32bit. I checked on LR4 beta and there is no check box to run in 32bit. Wonder if running in 64bit is slowing it down on my MBP?

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 11:49 PM   in reply to Jim Stamates

    More information that may help. I am running a second monitor, 27". I had the second window checked on (2) to my MBP. It was in Loupe view. When I clicked off the second window and just used the 27" monitor the sliders worked smoothly and changes are almost instant.

    If the second window (mbp) is in grid view it is a little slower, but really slow in loupe. I'm happy again. It was so frustrating I was not going to play 4Beta anymore, now, I'm back at play.

     

    Hope this helps.

     

    JIm

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 12:08 AM   in reply to mimot15

    @mimot15

     

     

    You can't bring in LR3 catalogs until the final release.

     

    And you really should be working on COPIES of your images when you bring them into LR4, unless you don't care if you may possibly corrupt, or lose them all together.

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 12:31 AM   in reply to RusticLightPhotography

    Slider responsiveness is very bad on my PC as well. And I also think that scrolling through pictures in Grid mode is extremly sluggish and always was in previous versions. Scrolling through hundreds of pics is just a pain, like in LR3, 2 and 1! I have been playing with Capture One 2.9 yesterday on a single core Pentium 4. Everything I did, no matter wether it was scrolling or adjusting sliders, was realtime! Now software is more complex, but Capture One with OpenCL still is very snappy and fast! That`s what I expected from Adobe as well, since we see the complaints about slider responsivness and scrolling in LR since ever.

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 5:36 AM   in reply to klsteven

    klsteven wrote:

     

    Slider responsiveness is very bad on my PC as well. And I also think that scrolling through pictures in Grid mode is extremly sluggish and always was in previous versions. Scrolling through hundreds of pics is just a pain, like in LR3, 2 and 1! I have been playing with Capture One 2.9 yesterday on a single core Pentium 4. Everything I did, no matter wether it was scrolling or adjusting sliders, was realtime! Now software is more complex, but Capture One with OpenCL still is very snappy and fast! That`s what I expected from Adobe as well, since we see the complaints about slider responsivness and scrolling in LR since ever.

     

    So frustrating to read this re: Capture One.

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 5:37 AM   in reply to Jim Stamates

    Jim Stamates wrote:

     

    ...Then I might as well go get a beer before the image changes.

     

    Jim

     

    I think I get it now - this is actually part of the new feature set.

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 5:51 PM   in reply to RusticLightPhotography

    "You can't bring in LR3 catalogs until the final release."

     

    @ RusticLightPhotograph

     

    Thanks for your information, I've seen this possibility on Adobe TV presentation after my writing. And yes, I always keep a copy of libraries and initial images on a second external disk. But until now although short time since Beta testing of LR4, no corruption occurs.

     

    Trying some adjustments and using nearly all development tabs, doesn't show any special slow processing now, as long as you stay in "D" mode. Difference in my personal case, compared to that what I've seen at the beginning of test (all was sloooowww) is that I didn't reboot my Mac (10.7.2) since 3 or 4 days and as usual, machine is becoming faster after some time. The results obtained with LR4 are until now, from my point of view, better and easier to achieve as with LR3.

     

    But switching back from development module (D) to library (G) is, after several images adjustments, really very long ? Screen seems to be frozen and CPU cores are loaded at 100% for a long while.

     
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    Jan 12, 2012 11:43 PM   in reply to mimot15

    I have it another way around on windows 7 64bit. The slowest is the startup and the first module switch. Often an empty video player shows up hanging above other controls, sometimes just empty black rectangles. It hangs for about 20 secs, but the process does nothing, no cpu or hdd activity. at the moment it is respondible again, the memory usage increases significantly, and the app functions as if nothing happened. The strange thing is, that even lr3 behaves now like that, and it never did, until i installed the beta.

     
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    Jan 14, 2012 8:09 AM   in reply to gnorthridge@msn.com

    I have the same problem as with LR3 when using adjustment brush. I get terrible lag.I do not have these problems when using Photoshop CS5. I have a Windows 7 (64-bit) running on a quad-core i7 processor with 12 gigs  DD3 ram with 1 gig video card. It doesn't matter what changes you make to LR if the performance is not fixed.

     
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    Jan 14, 2012 8:29 AM   in reply to vmtr

    vmtr the problem is not that the performance is not fixed - its even getting worse. i love lr3 but it is getting worse and worse. i KNOW this is a beta and i know this will be improved, but i really doubt that they can bring a product that runs fluid and fast. i am a realist. in py opinion you have the choice. unbelievable features and good options but slow or spped and not so gut features. i tried capture one and it is fast as hell on my machines, but does not have all the functionalitys like LR and is not so comfortable. but to be honest the skintones in capture one are really good compared to LR. color checker passport can fix this problem anyway.

     

    Another thing i want to suggest - people when you say your performance is good, tell us also what raw datas from which cam you work with. i have not heard from ANY person who works on huge 5dmkII, 1dmkIV, nikon d3s and so one  raw files, that are nor completely dissapointed from the performance of lr4 beta and most of them are dissapointed of the speed of lr 3,6 too, even on quite fast machines. Working on a native eos 550d raw files runs completely realtime on my machines - in lr 3,6 and in lr4 beta in pv2012

     

    king regards chris!

     
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    Jan 14, 2012 8:40 AM   in reply to frankc1978

    "i have not heard from ANY person who works on huge 5dmkII, 1dmkIV, nikon d3s and so one  raw files, that are nor completely dissapointed from the performance of lr4 beta and most of them are dissapointed of the speed of lr 3,6 too, even on quite fast machines"

     

    I had mentioned this earlier.  I struggle with "meager" 12MP RAW files off a Nikon D700 in 3.6 and moreso the Beta on a well-equipped Mac Pro.  Honna have to try a demo of C1 to experience life in the fast lane. ;-)

     
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