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Chromatic Abberation

Jan 10, 2012 12:03 PM

Where did the manual chromatic abberation controls go? Will be very dissapointed if this feature is not carried forward into LR4.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 12:08 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    They're gone, because the new automatic CA reduction is so amazingly effective.  In my experience, I could never do as well with the manual or profile controls as the automatic version does, well, automatically!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 12:10 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    In the Lens Correction panel, there's a checkbox for "Remove Chromatic Aberration".  I personally find it gives much better results than in LR3.  Give it a try, let us know what you think.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 12:10 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    Remember Tim, this is a BETA not a demo, huge difference.  I think if you can convice LR staff why having the chromatic control is the way to go, they will listen with an open heart.  it doesnt help if you just say I dont like this and that.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 12:15 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I suggest you post such an image for Eric to examine.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 7:18 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I have some photos with very problematic chromatic abberation that the LR3 settings were able to help with a little, but LR4 literally does nothing with when I turn "Remove CA" on. It's as if the feature isn't activated yet -- there is no change whatsoever.

     

    Here are three (admittedly lousy) photos from that batch, taken with a Canon 20D and Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM. Feel free to use them for testing.

     

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7473520/_MG_4942.CR2

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7473520/_MG_4962.CR2

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7473520/_MG_4971.CR2

     

    The only program that was able to automatically and successfully remove CA from the images from this particular lens was DxO -- which did an amazing one-click job. Unfortunately, it's the only thing I like about the program and I want a Lightroom/Photoshop-only workflow. It'd be great if Adobe could get to that level of success -- it's a huge timesaver when CA does occur.

     

    Thanks!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 7:25 PM   in reply to joerivera

    Good thread - hope the right people are watching

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 9:20 PM   in reply to joerivera

    I don’t see any CA to remove in these three images.  DxO may know how to remove other types of fringing but the aberrations in these are not classic CA that LR handles. 

     

     

     

    There is purple-lime fringing due to highlight edges being out of focus and some blue overexposure fringing, but LR3 manual CA adjustments just make things worse.

     

     

     

    One comment I would make is that it might be nice to have the old CA-sliders back at least if things are PV2010.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 10:03 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    Ah, sorry for my ignorance! That explains why I couldn't get any software to remove it. Thanks for clarifying, ssprengel.

     

    I'd still love to see a DXO-type purple fringe removal tool in Lightroom!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 10:34 PM   in reply to joerivera

    You might try out the defringe option in the lens correction manual tab. Or you can use the local adjustment brush to paint away the color fringe using the new moire control in the local ajdustment panel.

     
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    Jan 10, 2012 10:39 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I was a little worried at first since i use chromatic aberration correction a LOT (underwater photography thorugh a flat port tends to cause a lot of aberration), but so far on the few images i've tried it seems to do a decent job in full auto.  have to admit i'd feel a little bit more comfortable with manual sliders to fall back on if needed though...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 10, 2012 10:55 PM   in reply to hyptest

    Playing with it a little more, it's not quite so 100%.  I REALLY like the option to have automatic.  it makes cleaning up a lot of the photos much easier, but sometimes it seems not to detect it (particularly in cases where there's not a lot of obvious in focus aberrations.  Don't have much imported yet, but for instance, the backscatter in the upper left/lower right of this image isn't corrected (in lightroom 3 this is easy to pull out with the sliders, but in 4 i see essentially zero change depending on whether the button is pressed or not):

     

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39478191/_MG_4978.CR2

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 6:51 AM   in reply to hyptest

    The lens-CA seems to be removed in _MG_4978 but the CA caused by the underwater camera enclosure is still there, most visible in the tiny specs against the blackness along the lefthand side.

     

    Removing this secondary CA is a reason for put manual-CA sliders back into LR4.

     

    What sort of lens-port does your underwater gear have: something flat or a hemisphere?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 7:09 AM   in reply to ssprengel

    The earlier 3 examples are axial/longitudinal CA.  The earlier manual CA controls (and profile-based CA) didn't handle them, either.

     

    The new checkbox handles only lateral (a.k.a., transverse) CA.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 9:42 AM   in reply to ssprengel

    For macro (this case) i'm using a 100mm canon L macro lens behind an acrylic flat port.  In a lot of the photos I tried it actually handles the chromatic aberation in this setup fine, but in cases where there's only a bit visible most of the extreme corners are fairly smooth colors with only a few diffuse spots with obvious chromatic aberration (ie, the bits of backskatter in the corners it's not as effective).  Which is annoying since even though it's only a few spots, they show up (at least to me) when its a whitish spot on a largely black background.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 10:25 AM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    Not having played with it yet I'm curious about something.  When I apply auto correction it adjusts for everything: distortion, vignetting, CA.  All well and good.  But unless I have a specific issue with distortion I don't both bending the pixels so zero it.  And I always zero vignetting as I like the aesthetic.  Either adjustment changes the lens setting from Default to Custom.

     

    Here is the question: in the past I've noticed that custom lens settings retain the specific lens profile, even when when a different lens was used.  Leaving the setting at default allowed this feature to be used as a preset or initial import setting and would automatically adjust to the new lens.  In LR4 can I zero out the distortion and vignetting, leaving only auto CA active, and maintain that as the default import setting that will still self-adjust to whatever lens is represented in the meta data?

     

    Hope that makes sense as I'm finding it difficult to explain.  Too much caffeine perhaps.

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    4,793 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 10:38 AM   in reply to Jay Mitchosky

    Jay Mitchosky wrote:

     

    in the past I've noticed that custom lens settings retain the specific lens profile, even when when a different lens was used.  Leaving the setting at default allowed this feature to be used as a preset or initial import setting and would automatically adjust to the new lens.

     

    In that Setup pop-up, rather than leaving it on custom, select 'Save New Lens Defaults' - that'll be the new default for that lens.  Repeat for the other lenses and you'll be set.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 11:21 AM   in reply to hyptest

    Presumably this is still lateral CA – the different color channels are slightly different magnifications – so could be corrected by either a more sophisticated CA-model or averaged out by manual sliders.  With manual sliders, the CA wouldn’t necessarily be entirely gone, but the some CA color offset could be shifted somewhat from the extreme outer areas to more in the middle where it is already less.

     

     

     

    We need the manual sliders, back, for use in special cases such as this.

     

     

     

    I can think of another use for manual CA sliders.  If there is a large aquarium in a photo, where the water-based CA amounts are different than the air-based CA amounts elsewhere, if the CA-model removes CA according to the air, but my subject is in the aquarium, then I’d like to be able to change the CA-adjustment amounts to remove the CA in the water area and perhaps shift the error to the background outside the aquarium where the edges are less sharp and the CA less obvious or that I’ve cropped away.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 11:25 AM   in reply to ssprengel

    The manual CA wouldn't help in that case because it's a symmetric model (it can't vary the amount based on subject).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 1:35 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    The lens-port CA and the aquarium CA would both be symmetric.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 2:37 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I would agree with bringing back the slider adjustments! Please! Bring them back!

     

    The preset works fine for some images, but the photo I'm working with at the moment, still has a red edge I can't get rid of!
    The suggestion to use the local adjustment brush to paint away the color fringe, is time consuming and unnecessary, when the sliders in v3 took care of it.

     

    I've worked with adobe products the past 17 years, and the one thing I've hated over the years with upgrades, is they take away a lot of the good useful tools.

    I've always been disappointed to find the tools I used most, were missing with the next upgrade.

     

    I know a lot of hard work goes into developing the software, and it is appreciated.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 3:14 PM   in reply to Pamvphoto

    Pamvphoto wrote:

     

    I would agree with bringing back the slider adjustments! Please! Bring them back!

     

    The preset works fine for some images, but the photo I'm working with at the moment, still has a red edge I can't get rid of!
    The suggestion to use the local adjustment brush to paint away the color fringe, is time consuming and unnecessary, when the sliders in v3 took care of it.

     

    You sure? I suggest you change it to PV2010 in LR 4 and see if you can really get rid of it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 3:27 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    My personal request is that any images you're having trouble with, please send them to me (madmanchan2000@yahoo.com). 

     

    I understand the comments about restoring the manual sliders, but frankly that's only a short-term and suboptimal solution.  The reason is that you'd have to adjust the sliders individually on a per-image basis.  That's not fun when you have lots of images to go thru.

     

    My view is that it would be a better long-term solution to improve the new method to handle the images you're having trouble with.  That way, you get both improved image quality and better workflow.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 3:59 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    By that logic LR should have no sliders and only an Auto button.  Of course the more images as LR can automatically adjust CA for the better. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 4:16 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    "By that logic LR should have no sliders and only an Auto button."

     

    Not really. CA is something that is uniformly good to get rid of, the sliders are for placing your image in a place on some continuum that meets your objectives.

     

    Of course, by Version 17, LR will simply know what we want, and the only button we'll need is Import.

     

    Hal

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 6:26 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    "You sure? I suggest you change it to PV2010 in LR 4 and see if you can really get rid of it."

     

    At this time LR 4 is a tad buggy on my Mac Pro.

    Changing to 2010 crashes the app every time! When I re-open the app it continues to crash. :/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 7:05 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    MadManChan2000 wrote:

     

    My personal request is that any images you're having trouble with, please send them to me (madmanchan2000@yahoo.com).

     

    I've sent you a problem NEF file Eric.  LR4beta cleans up some pretty bad red CA, but the blue is still there.

     

    CA.jpg

    Hope you can work some magic.  Not sure what tricks nikon uses but their software can clean this up.  Appreciate all your hard work on our behalf!

     

    Regards

    Rory

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 7:08 PM   in reply to hillrg

    That looks like longitudinal CA to me.

     
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    Jan 11, 2012 7:22 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    Lee Jay wrote:

     

    That looks like longitudinal CA to me.

     

    Maybe so Lee Jay, but NX can remove it.  Anyway, Eric can check out the file.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 7:42 PM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I think the interesting thing this conversation is exposing (from a user standpoint) is that we require control for fringe removal, regardless of the technicalities of the fringe. A user shouldn't have to ask or answer questions about whether or not it is CA, or whether it is longitudinal or latitudinal, nor should we need to understand Adobe's algorithms or be able to pre-determine whether an auto-button will get rid of them. A pro program should be able make tackling a range of scenarios simpler with automated controls, but there should always be override capability with fine-grained manual controls for those problems that are edge cases.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 8:23 PM   in reply to joerivera

    The old controls couldn't deal with axial CA either.  It is not clear to me that having manual controls that don't solve the problem is helpful.  (It would just give the user the illusion of having manual control, but it solves the wrong problem.)

     

    On the other hand, I can see value in having manual controls that solve the correct problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 11, 2012 8:39 PM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    MadManChan2000 wrote:

     

    On the other hand, I can see value in having manual controls that solve the correct problem.

     

    .

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 12, 2012 5:47 AM   in reply to Pamvphoto

    Pamvphoto wrote:

     

    I would agree with bringing back the slider adjustments! Please! Bring them back!

     

    The preset works fine for some images, but the photo I'm working with at the moment, still has a red edge I can't get rid of!
    The suggestion to use the local adjustment brush to paint away the color fringe, is time consuming and unnecessary, when the sliders in v3 took care of it.

     

    I've worked with adobe products the past 17 years, and the one thing I've hated over the years with upgrades, is they take away a lot of the good useful tools.

    I've always been disappointed to find the tools I used most, were missing with the next upgrade.

     

    I know a lot of hard work goes into developing the software, and it is appreciated.

    Totally agree with the sentiments expressed in this post.

     

    I still frequently use ACR because of the Color Sampler Tool. Why LR has never had one is beyond me - as MadManChan knows already!

     

    D.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 18, 2012 9:55 AM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I also just noticed that the Chromatic Aberration sliders are missing from LR4. I was always able to effectively remove any measure of CA from my images with these tools. I tried setting both the "Remove CA" and "Defringe-All" controls to On in LR4 with a new image having what I would describe as "hard-to-find" CA. I noticed only a minimal change. Not having the CA sliders for Red/Cyan and Blue/Yellow is a disappointment. Is there a reason why we can't have BOTH (Auto and Manual)? That would be the best of both worlds.

     

    J Rhodes

    New Mexico

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 18, 2012 10:29 AM   in reply to judsonr

    Can you please provide me with your sample (raw) image?  e.g., YouSendIt.com, dropbox, etc. is fine (madmanchan2000@yahoo.com)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2012 6:27 AM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I do have some issures too with chromatic abberations. My raw file is available here : http://cl.ly/2I1e0r3X3l2l271j2R3H

    I have some more RAWs if needed of the same album that my help you.

    Please let me know if you need anything else.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2012 6:42 AM   in reply to jean-eus

    Thanks.  Great example!  Wow.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2012 7:04 AM   in reply to MadManChan2000

    Great example of what? It is axial, not lateral CA, isn't it?

     

    Or... does it mean you're working on automatic axial CA removal for the beta2?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2012 7:03 AM   in reply to Tim Smith Photo

    I'm just begening photography. You can see on my flickr (http://flickr.com/chegayvara ) i've started only 2 years ago and got my DSLR 6months ago so i'm not really familiar with all that pictures defects and how to correct them. I've seen a post pointing the specific improvement for this kind of automatic chromatic correction so i thought this raw (on which the treatement is not working) might help. If not i may have other raws that can be usefull.

     

    I thought this picture is a pretty good example of somthing you can obtain and cannot correct by hand, neither when taking the photo itself, unless you want to create a mint and grenadine styled river...

     

    (oh and BTW please excuse every mistake i might have written : I'm french...)

     
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