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Outline view in InDesign is missing

Guest
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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Hi

I wanted to post a feature is missing in InDesign CS3, View Outlines that we have in Illustrator is missing in InDesign.

I was shocked to see it is not exicst, what Adobe has the say about that?

It's a must feature !!!

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LEGEND ,
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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InDesign is not Illustrator...

Harbs

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Guest
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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So what?  I'm more than sure that many people will like to have that there.

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Community Expert ,
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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Are you saying you are drawing native vector objects and you want a view outlines feature for those, or that you want to have an outline view of placed objects?

Exactly how would this help you?

Peter

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Guest
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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have an outline view of placed objects.

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Community Expert ,
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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Why would you need this? You can't edit the placed object directly in ID, so I fail to see how viewing it in outline would be of benefit. You know you can reduce the quality of the screen preview to speed up drawing, right?

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Guest
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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Yes that I know.  I think that if you are wondering why do I need to use the outlines preview in InDesign, you are not working too much with that software.

I'll give you an example, lets say I'm drawing a shape, placing an image into that shape, sometimes I need to see and catch that shape and that preview will help me to do so.

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Community Expert ,
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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You should be careful who you insult.

I asked what use this would be to you, since you hadn't explained it. I don't draw a lot of free-form frames, so it wouldn't be much use to me, but I'm still not sure what you are looking for that the View > Show Edges (Ctrl [Cmd] + H) wouldn't be doing. Maybe I don't understand yet what you mean -- you want to see your placed Illustrator art in outlines inside ID? I can't see any added benefit to this since filled shapes are as easily sized and moved. Most people complain when the preview is less than a completely accurate rendition.

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Guest
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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Sorry, didn't want to insult.

What I'm looking for is if you go to Illustrator do Ctrl + y you can see that.

Thanks.

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Community Expert ,
Jul 07, 2009 Jul 07, 2009

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I understand what you get in Illustrator -- I use that view regularly to make selecting easier.  What I don't understand is how having this view of Illustrator art inside InDesign would be useful. If I don't understand what it is you want, it's pretty likely that other people don't understand it either. In order to get a new feature you need to be able to explain clearly how it is used and what benefit it has for users in general.

Peter

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Hi,

I'm another user who would like to request the "View Outline" feature in Indesign. I'm explaining a scenerio, maybe you could explain an alternative method to solve my problem.

I have a bigger text frame and I have JPEG images "Text wrapped" with that frame. Now I have to bring the images down to the Text frame because the image background is opaque.

Now if I wish to select the images, I would need to view the artwork in outline mode. It could be solved if Indesign had an Illustrator-like LOCK object command. so I temporarily lock the text frame and select the images.

Hopefully you could give some idea to solve my problem.

Regards,

Naveed

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Community Expert ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Naveed,

It sounds to me as if you should be able to do waht you want by using the direct select tool to select the image, rather than the frame, but I may be misunderstanding.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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Peter,

Thanks for the reply. You are right, but I don't think that direct selection tool will let me select any object beneath.

I'm attaching a small jpeg for reference.In this scenerio, all I have to do is to "send to back" the textbox and then select the image.

btw, Would adding the support for "Outline View" might decrease the Indesign performance or make the computer slow?

Regards,

Naveed

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Community Expert ,
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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You can use the Ctrl (Cmd) key and click down through a stack of overlapping objects, or use the Object > Select submenu (or one of the listed keyboard shortcuts) to to navigate through the stack. Once the correct object is selected, use Object > Select > Content or the button on the Control Panel (the content/container and next/previous object in a group buttons look like a family tree or organization chart) to select the image.

I have no idea what would be involved in creating an outline view susch as you describe, but it's well outside the current capabilities. Given that there are ways to do what you want, and other other features that probably would be more useful generally, I probably wouldn't vote for it if asked, but it's certainly a legitimate thing to request. You do that officially at Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 04, 2009 Sep 04, 2009

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Thanks a lot...

My problem is solved with the Ctrl + click multiple times to select overlapping objects. This was the only issue for what I was missing outline view.

thanks again.

Regards,

Naveed

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New Here ,
Jun 19, 2018 Jun 19, 2018

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I'm working on a piece now that is a template of a beer list to be placed on a dark background, but the text is white, I'd like to be able to see my white text on the white background.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 19, 2018 Jun 19, 2018

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LATEST

This thread is more than five years old. Please start a new one with full details.

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New Here ,
Sep 01, 2011 Sep 01, 2011

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This feature would be useful for me too.

Right now I need to edit a white text on a white background (on master page)

and I can not see it to change it.

I need to be adiconando black boxes behind?

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Community Expert ,
Sep 01, 2011 Sep 01, 2011

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Edit > Edit in Story Editor...


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Guest
Jan 14, 2012 Jan 14, 2012

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Peter, I think you were giving that Talgut guy a bit of a hard time.  He has a very valid point.  I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you're coming across as a bit snooty on this subject.  I've seen other threads on the net discussing the same subject, with similar participants displaying this same attitude towards people who (rightfully) are wondering why ID doesn't have a View Outlines mode.

As a professional with over a decade of using QuarkXpress before switching to ID in 2006, I can guarantee that there are plenty of reasons why ID needs a View Outlines mode. I'm also an AI expert, so I'm very accustomed to being able to switch to View Outlines in order to quickly get everything lined up accurately.  There are many times you don't want to see the content of the box... just the outline of the box itself, and if you're trying to line it up against a complex packaging template for example, where there are tons of bleeds and trims involved, in order to work quickly, you need to be able to switch the app to View Outlines mode, adjust your alignments and then continue on. You need total transparency. It's a total hassle working in ID and never having this option. "Fast Display" doesn't cut it.  Another alternative is to keep pulling more guides hither and yon, and lining up those guides over top of the template, but then you wind up with a rat's nest of guides.  And even then, you're still never going to be able to line things up as accurately as you'd be able to with View Outlines. Working in ID feels very ambiguous compared to working in AI in terms of total accuracy. It's very frustrating.

I certainly hope and pray that Adobe will eventually add this feature to ID.  In CorelDraw it's called "wireframe". 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 14, 2012 Jan 14, 2012

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Then I guess I'm going to give you the same hard time, though I think I merely pressed him to explain his use case, which I don't believe he ever really did.

I don't recall Quark having a view outlines mode, either, and I would hardly equate Corel Draw with a page layout app. If you want to compare to an Adobe application, the closest would be Illustrator, and that does have outlines mode as you know.

I'm afraid from your description I still don't really see how outlines will help you in ID. Frame borders and bounding boxes don't change regardless of what display mode you use, and I still don't understand how seeing the frame without the content is more useful. This is more than likely a difference of working style, but perhaps you'd care to provide a concrete example, with screen shots, of why outlines would be useful.

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Guest
Jan 14, 2012 Jan 14, 2012

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Discussing this subject with you already feels like a chess match.  I think you're more interested in jousting with members than improving the program. 

It's very simple... there are a number of users who have noticed that there's no View Outlines mode in this app.  Many of us are very used to working in AI and it's a very quick and handy way to see everything at once and line things up perfectly... I don't want to just see the edges of the bounding boxes.  I want to see right through them... just like... hey... I know.... VIEW OUTLINE MODE.  It's just a handy way to work and it's another option that should be implemented into ID.  No big deal.

Do you have some type of vested interest in keeping this feature out of ID??  What the heck difference could it possibly make to you? Are you paying the programmers?  Sure you may not need this feature... but.... other people do.  We don't all work the same way.  Different strokes for different folks, right?   (get it? Different "strokes")  LOLOL

Sorry no time to prepare samples for ya bud.  Trying to meet another tight production deadline here.  I guess that means you won!   Checkmate!  Let's keep ID dumb.  No point in developing anything just to pander to a few "fringe" users who can't state their case satisfactorily in Steve's court.  

P.S. - The only reason I referred to CorelDraw was simply because of the term they use... "wireframe"....which I thought that was pretty apropo. I'm a 3D animator too, so it reminded me of how we look at objects in 3D. It's a great way to line up our polygons perfectly (the same principle, right?). I would never consider using CorelDraw for anything at all, so please don't make that assumption.  Sorry I brought it up!

P.P.S. - Re: Quark - you're correct... there's no View Outlines mode there either, but wouldn't that just be another reason why we would all want to switch to ID... maybe because ID does have that feature?  Just a thought.  😉

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Community Expert ,
Jan 14, 2012 Jan 14, 2012

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I'm not suggeting keeping ID dumb. Outline view is not something athat interests me, nor, apparently, a lot of other users as it doesn't come up here as a request as often as things like fixing footnotes (this is the only thread I think I've ever seen). The REALITY of a feature request is that in order to have it implemented you MUST present to Adobe, not me, a compelling use case to show how this is going to be of benefit to a sufficiently large number of users to to justify expending resources to develop it instead of doing something else. The other eality is it takes a long time for most new features to be added unless they are clearly of benefit to almost everyone. It took at least three or four versions of ID to go by before the  Illustrator-style layers panel was implemented. This is a forum for discussing the merit of a new feature, not a request line (file your request at Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form). You should be prepared to discuss what you propose.

If anyone wuold show me how outline view would help them in ID, I'm eager  to see it. I really don't understand how this would be particularly useful.

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Guest
Jan 14, 2012 Jan 14, 2012

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Good points.   The way I see it, ID is still in the process of taking over the market share from Quark.  It wasn't all that long ago that many of us were still only toying with the idea of actually sending an ID file to press. It was almost like considering switching to PageMaker!  LOL  Then there was the loyalty factor... it was like, Adobe already has PS and AI... why do they need to corner the layout side of things too?  Shouldn't that remain Quark's domain?  You know, keep things diverse?

But then after the Macromedia takeover, all that became moot.  Adobe owns everything else now, so why should we bother using one separate app just for layout, especially when we know that Adobe apps are going to integrate with each other more seamlessly.

So I guess, in light of that situation, Adobe probably doesn't need to try all that hard any more to offer features in ID that Quark doesn't have in order to lure over more potential users.

That being said, I remember back in the early 00s when I first heard about ID, the touters were telling me, hey it's like a combination of AI and Quark.  You can edit vector shapes, etc.  I thought, hey good idea, so naturally I was quite shocked to find out that you couldn't actually plunk an AI image directly into those early versions of ID.  Glad you fixed that.  It only makes sense.  So why stop there?  Oh, I forgot, you already have your monopoly.  Now you can become complacent. No need to make any more effort to try to woo over the rest of us.

It kind of reminds me of the whole transparency issue. Remember back in '99 when a fat and happy Adobe would have had us believe that transparency was not possible in a vector program.... and then of course Macromedia came out with Fireworks and basically said, well of course you can have transparent vector objects.  Like duh.  Funny how the very next version of AI featured transparency.  😉  Isn't it interesting how competition can be so healthy in a marketplace?  Now that Macromedia has wimped out and decided to opt for a permanent, paid beach vacation in the Caribbean (courtesy of Adobe), rather than continue to slog it out in the trenches against you guys, you can now sit back on your laurels and state with unbridled pomp and circumstance, "and pray tell dear peasant, why should you need to view your objects in outline form?  Please explain. Ta ta, no shuffling your feet now.  Guards!  Take him to the gates immediately.  I shall have none of this".  Do I see the Queen of Hearts or Marie Antoinette emerging here? 

We need it because this is the way we work in AI, and now we're switching to ID because it's supposedly better than Quark.  If ID is supposed to be a layout program that is kind of similar to AI, then then it's only logical that it should have a View Outlines mode.  In fact, I'm stunned that it would never occur to anyone to include this from the outset.  It seems completely obvious, and as I have already stated, would be an obvious "reason" why ID is therefore better than Quark.

I fully understand that this is not the forum to discuss or try to initiate these types of changes.  It's just that your original exchange with Talgut really got me going.  As a pro with miles of experience, I had to call you on it.  Sure you can say that you don't hear the request for Outline Mode much on these forums, but that's because you're corresponding with a lot of newer users who simply believe that this is just the way ID works, and who may not be aware of the fact that View Outlines could have, and should have been there all along.  Many of these users may not be AI experts either, so perhaps they're not even aware of the benefits of this feature.

Anyhow, I am far too busy to start pursuing this issue with Adobe, preparing presentations, etc... but I'll be glad to do it if I can send you an invoice for my time!  😉  I've stated my case, and I can only hope that some of the other more experienced users like myself, who are still in the process of switching over to ID, will also step forward to help reinforce my position.  I can only hope that common sense will prevail.  It was common sense to allow us to paste AI images into ID too, and you fixed that, so why not fix this?

Just because you personally don't find any necessity to view your file in outline mode while you're working doesn't mean that it's not needed!  If you were a true AI expert you wouldn't even question this!  You'd be like, ya dude, that's one handy mode... I agree that it should be available in ID.  It's all very simple and straightforward.  Don't give these junior guys such a hard time!  😉

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LEGEND ,
Jan 14, 2012 Jan 14, 2012

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Ferroid:

That being said, I remember back in the early 00s when I first heard about ID, the touters were telling me, hey it's like a combination of AI and Quark.  You can edit vector shapes, etc.

...

We need it because this is the way we work in AI, and now we're switching to ID because it's supposedly better than Quark.  If ID is supposed to be a layout program that is kind of similar to AI, then then it's only logical that it should have a View Outlines mode.  In fact, I'm stunned that it would never occur to anyone to include this from the outset.  It seems completely obvious, and as I have already stated, would be an obvious "reason" why ID is therefore better than Quark.

ID is not a vector drawing problem of the kind that is similar to Adobe Illustrator.

If you are trying to use InDesign to subsume the functions of Illustrator, you are in for a world of hurt. This a terrible idea.

Like XPress, you should use InDesign hand-in-hand with Illustrator.

View Outlines is one very small reason, there are hundreds of other problems you will encounter with this proposed workflow.

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