Adobe Community: Lightroom conflicting with Microsoft Office Home and Business 2010

Jim 185

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Lightroom conflicting with Microsoft Office Home and Business 2010

Jan 28, 2012 2:52 PM

This is a third posting on what is the same topic/experience.

See postings under ROBBIECRAFT:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/947181?tstart=60

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4137324#4137324

Hal and Beat were very helpful at that time.

Quick background and current situtation (after some 5 plus weeks)

- Shortly after ver 3.6 was released, Lightroom 3.6 began crashing while in the DEVELOP module after 30 minutes plus or minus.

By ``Crashing``, I mean the computer shuts down, no blue screen, and reboots to screen recommending START WINDOWS NORMALLY

- Computer is 6 months old, Computer shop replaced, in sequence with my testing,

Video Card

Memory

CPU

- crashing continued, so they installed a temporay new C drive to see what would happen.

- With LR only running, all was fine so Win 7 (home premium) was re-installed on my C drive and I stared re-installing the software.

With each installation LR was tested twice for 60-90 minutes, before proceeding to next software install

RESTORE POINT created after FIREFOX ``ìnstalled``

- Lightroom 3.0 installed

tests run

- Lightroom 3.6 installed

tests run

RESTORE POINT created

- Photoshop CS5 installed

tests run

RESTORE POINT created

- MS Office installed, some issues with setting up OUTLOOK

- drive permissions fixed

tests run and LR crashed

-Uninstalled Office

- crashes continued (much quicker)

- worked back through RESTORE POINTS and eventually ended up at inital RESTORE POINT

Then worked back through the installs again (and restore points)

- No crashes until I installed MS Office.

- I have backed up to the RESTORE POINT before Office install and still crashing.

At this point I am ready to set up Lightoom in a Virtual machine within the computer and run everything else normally. (not sure I said that correctly, but that was what I thought my technical assistant said)

But before doing that, has anyone else had this problem and solved it ???

Thank you

Jim Robertson

2763 Views 28 Replies Latest reply: b_gossweiler, Mar 14, 2012 4:28 PM

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1. b_gossweiler,

Jan 28, 2012 2:55 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim 185 wrote:

- MS Office installed, some issues with setting up OUTLOOK
- drive permissions fixed
tests run and LR crashed
What were these drive permissions, which you had to manipulate?

Beat

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2. Jim 185,

Jan 28, 2012 3:08 PM in reply to b_gossweiler

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Hi Beat

When the computer shop re-set my C drive, the other two drives (my data and picture drives) did not have permission for me to have full control or to modify them.

That, after much searching and pulling out of hair, was I had to use Adminstrator authority to run LR when you pointed out that I had a permissions issue when I was working with the temporary C drive from the computer shop.

So I fixed it under drive>properties>security (under the guidance of my technical assistant.

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3. John R. Ellis,

Jan 28, 2012 7:03 PM in reply to Jim 185

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I know in the previous thread overheating was considered but then ruled out after replacing the fan, but your symptoms certainly match overheating. (The BIOS will immediately shut down the computer with no warning if it thinks it is too hot). LR is particularly good at heating up the CPU, since it can utilize all of your processors very easily.

Has your technician checked the System events log? You can check that yourself: Start > Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Event Viewer > Windows Logs > System. On the right panel, click Filter Current Log and check Critical and Error. That will show you really "important" events, and if you scroll to the time right before your computer crashed, you can often see clues as to the crash, e.g. an error event that says "The system was shut down due to a critical thermal event." It's unusual for the computer to crash without some indication or clue in the System event log.

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4. b_gossweiler,

Jan 28, 2012 7:41 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim 185 wrote:

Hi Beat

When the computer shop re-set my C drive, the other two drives (my data and picture drives) did not have permission for me to have full control or to modify them.

That, after much searching and pulling out of hair, was I had to use Adminstrator authority to run LR when you pointed out that I had a permissions issue when I was working with the temporary C drive from the computer shop.

So I fixed it under drive>properties>security (under the guidance of my technical assistant.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm puzzled. I agree with John, that overheating is the most likely cause for such behaviour. Have you ever considered a tool like SpeedFan to monitor (and log) your temperatures? Logging has the advantage that you can check what has happened before the shutdown.

Beat

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5. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 4:04 AM in reply to b_gossweiler

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Thanks John and Beat

I looked at the logs as per John's suggestion. There seem to be CRITICAL errors with the source "KERNEL POWER" event ID 41 that co-incide with some of the crashes (and maybe a few that don't). I will need to look closely at the listing and will run a test of LR and see what happens. The ERROR logs don't seem to tie closely to the crashes, but again I will look more closely.

Beat: You had suggested the SPEEDFAN before, but I had not installed it as Computer shop and my technical assistant felt it really could not be that (especially after we already had changed the fan first, but after checking the logs, maybe that position will change and installing the software I assume is relatively painless (keeping in mind level dismal level of technical skill)

Thank you

Jim

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6. John R. Ellis,

Jan 29, 2012 5:19 AM in reply to Jim 185

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Event ID 41 is "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly". (You can see the text of an event in the lower pane after clicking on the event in the upper pane.) This event just indicates that Windows noticed, after rebooting, that it had crashed unexpectedly. Preceding events in the log would be the ones that might indicate why.

It would be highly unusual for this kind of crash to be caused by applications like LR or Office.

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7. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 5:25 AM in reply to John R. Ellis

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Morning John:

After I replied earlier I found the narrative explaining the code....

I have not had a chance to run a LR test yet (and have a crash), but in checking the ERROR codes, the narrartive for the last ERROR corresponding to a crash was: "The previous system shutdown at 1:42:41 PM on ‎28/‎01/‎2012 was unexpected."

I hope to have a chance to run a LR test in about an hour

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8. Hal P Anderson,

Jan 29, 2012 5:59 AM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim,

You really ought to run a temperature logging program. Speedfan is good. Here's how:

Download speedfan: http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php

Run the downloaded exe file to install.

Run speedfan. Go to configure.

Go to the Log tab and click the Enable box.

On the temperatures tab, choose the temperatures you want monitored in the Speedfan window by putting a check in the box. Then click on each of those lines one at a time to select them and notice that a "Logged" checkbox appears at the bottom of the dialogue box. Tick that box for each temperature you want logged.

Click OK.

Leave Speedfan running and run your LR tests. Speedfan's "Readings" tab will show you real-time temperatures, and your selected temperatures will be logged to a file every 3 seconds.

When you want to read a log, you can find them in Program Files( x86)\Speedfan with names of the form SFLOG<date>-<sequence>.csv. You can load them directly into your favourite spreadsheet program.

Hal

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9. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 6:52 AM in reply to Hal P Anderson

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I just ran a test. Ran for 25 minutes (which is about normal, except after the MS Office install and uninstall it will crash in 1-5 minutes)

Crashed seems to occur as I am doing an adjutsment (spot removal, graduated filter, crop) I think it has crashed on other tiems too, but mainly those.

Screen shots of logs are below.

Hal: I will go install SPEEDFAN and let you know what I get.

Thanks

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10. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 7:59 AM in reply to Jim 185

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Hal:

Sorry for delay but I am being pulled severals ways this morning

I have been in touch with my technical assistant and he concurs with the SPeedfan recommendation, but recommends running Prime 95 as a test for overheating. He feels it would be more reliable in generating heat than LR.

http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=15504
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime95

In particular, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime95#Use_for_stress_testing

So I am about to install SPEEDFAN and then will install PRIME 95.

Hopefully I will figure out how to run it....

Thx

Jim

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11. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 8:39 AM in reply to Jim 185

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Set up Speed fan (not sure I did it right as you will see below)

Ran Prime95, crashed within 3-4 seconds

Went to Speedfan log, the most recent one and imported the csv into Google Docs spread sheet. I thought it looked strange, so I doubel checked it ona another compouter runnign excel.

Here is the screen print:

Here is how I had set up Speedfan: (I went with the default as I didn't know what I was really looking at)

The subitems for each box was not checked:

Here is screen print of SPEEDFAN initial screen

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12. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 8:57 AM in reply to Jim 185

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Hal:

Sorry, I just figured out what I had set wrongly in Speedfan

I will re-run after lunch

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13. Hal P Anderson,

Jan 29, 2012 9:02 AM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim,

To get the actual temperatures in Speedfan's log, you have to select the line in the Temperatures tab, and tick the Logged box that appears:

Even with your log not working correctly, your CPU shows 124 degrees Celsius. That's gonna shut you down in a hurry.

Either your cpu fan isn't running well (it shows 20 rpm, which ain't good), or your cpu heat sink was installed without any thermal grease. I'd suspect the former.

Hal

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14. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 10:00 AM in reply to Hal P Anderson

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Thanks Hal

Yes it was the "Logged" tick that I missed. Your instructions were clear, my reading was not thorough enough.

I wil re-set things and run PRIME95 again

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15. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 11:23 AM in reply to Jim 185

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OK ran Prime95 again, crashed within 3-5 seconds.

Here is the SPeedfan log

(I had to retype it as the spreadsheet did not enter a new column for each separter - I was expecting a prompt and did not get it)

The CPU (in 7th column) jumped all over the place from -52.5 to 124

The Core2 moved a little

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16. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 12:00 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Just ran LR test. Crashed after 8 minutes in develop mode.

Here is Sppedfan numbers from the end of the log(I figured out how make the csv open properly !!)

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17. Hal P Anderson,

Jan 29, 2012 2:16 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim,

The Speedfan numbers don't look conclusive. All of them except for the second CPU numbers seem to be within normal bounds and those look to be a probable artifact of Speedfan.

On the other hand, if Prime95 will kill your computer in five seconds, you definitely have a problem, either with your CPU overheating, or possibly your power supply overheating or simply being incapable of supplying enough current to your CPU.

If I were you, I'd take it back to the shop and tell them that you don't want to see it again until it will run Prime95 for an hour without perishing.

Hal

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18. b_gossweiler,

Jan 29, 2012 2:57 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim,

I completely agree with what Hal has stated. Something is wrong with your system, as you should be able to run your system for an indefinite time with all your CPU stressed to the max. Do you know if you run your system overclocked? If so, I'd take it back to defaults.

Beat

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19. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 3:36 PM in reply to b_gossweiler

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Hal and Beat:

Thanks

I have been keeping my technical assistant in the loop on all this and have been running tests for him as well.

He has commented on the inconclusiveness as well.

Prime95 crashes doing the hyrbrid (blend) run very quickly and seems to indicate high temps in the CORES (Can't get a log file on the second test to confirm that). But Prime does not crash on the CPU or the FFT testing.

LR does not seem to raise the temp on the CORES before crashing.

Not sure about the oevrclocking, I will mention to my technical assistant.

I will be in touch with computer shop.

Thanks again

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20. Hal P Anderson,

Jan 29, 2012 4:46 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim,

So it was the "blend" test but not the one that produces maximum heat. Perhaps it's a memory problem, since that's what Blend does a lot of testing of.

Try downloading Memtest (http://www.memtest.org/#downiso), burning the .iso image to a CD, and then booting from the CD. It's a standalone memory tester, and if you have a bad spot in your memory, it should find it pretty quickly. Worth a shot.

Hal

p.s. An iso CD image is an image of how the cd should look after it has been burnt. Win 7 knows about such things and will do the right thing when you ask it to burn the iso file to CD.

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21. Jim 185,

Jan 29, 2012 4:55 PM in reply to Hal P Anderson

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Thanks Hal

I will pass that along to my technical advisor.

We are planning to do a test with Memtest86 which I think is what you are suggesting.

Not sure when we get a chance to that as he has his own life to lead , but we'll get there.

Thx again

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22. Hal P Anderson,

Jan 29, 2012 6:08 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim,

Keep us posted.

Hal

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23. Geoff the kiwi,

Jan 29, 2012 11:49 PM in reply to Hal P Anderson

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You guys are amazing!! Medals all round as soon as we can find some....... or go and get a free d/l of Lightroom4 .............beta!!!

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24. Jim 185,

Feb 5, 2012 4:58 PM in reply to Hal P Anderson

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Hal/Beat/John:

I am back. My technical advisor was otherwise occupied and could not run more testing until today.

Conclusion so far, more testing to go, is that it is a software issue as stress tests work fine outside of Win7 and even OK in Win7 SAFE mode.

Tests run:
* Booted Memtest86+ version 4.20 from bootable CD-ROM
* Booted StressLinux 0.7.106 from bootable CD-ROM,
* Used "mprime" (Mersenne Prime) GIMPS suite for tests run
All OK

* Booted Microsoft Windows 7 normally
* Ran GIMPS distribution for Windows ("Prime95")
* Was still able to crash computer spontaneously using "Hybrid" test mode

* Rebooted computer in "Safe Mode"
* Ran "Prime95" again; "Hybrid" test mode no longer crashes computer

There were some possible temperature anomalies, but nothing that caused a crash.

I did two 60 minute test of LR DEVELOP module in WIN7 SAFE mode with no problems

Might be a driver issue I am being advised.

Not sure when the next testing will take place as technical advisor getting tied up again and I will be away for several weeks.

I'll keep you posted though.

BTW should the title of this discussion be changed to something else ????? such as LR crashing, possible conflict with other software

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25. b_gossweiler,

Feb 5, 2012 5:10 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Jim,

If you suspect a driver to be the issue (which I agree it looks like if your system runs stable in safe mode), you can do the following to narrow down the offender:

Enter msconfig into the search box of the start menu
Select the Startup tab
Disable all startup items
Reboot your system
Run your tests
If the system runs OK, one of the items is the offender
-> Narrow down the offender (see next section)

To narrow down by disabling (you need lots of reboots if doing them individually), I usually perform a binary drill down as follows:
Sort the items by name
Disable upper half
Reboot, test
If OK, the offender is within the first half
Cut down the disabled items to a quarter (re-activate half of the de-activated)
If not OK, the offender is within the second half
Re-enable the disabled items
Disable the lower half
and so on

By doing this, you don't need so many steps to end up with one item.

Have a good Super Bowl!

Beat

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26. Jim 185,

Feb 5, 2012 5:33 PM in reply to b_gossweiler

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Thx Beat

Not sure when I will have a chance to do this, but will keep you posted (just don't hold your breath as it might be several weeks )

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27. Jim 185,

Mar 14, 2012 4:25 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Hal/Beat/John:

Well I am back after a brief vacation to deep south USA.....

After some more digging by my tech advisor/guru, the issue of Lightroom crashing seems to have been resolved.

The power saving settings for the CPU and Power supply in the BIOS had to be changed.

Everything seems OK, but will be totally convinced after another week or so - I just am too gun shy with 3 months almost of crashing.

Thx for all your help

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28. b_gossweiler,

Mar 14, 2012 4:28 PM in reply to Jim 185

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Thanks for the feedback, Jim, we'll keep our fingers crossed for you.

Beat

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