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Shawn4G
Shawn4G
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Coming from FCP to PPCS5.5 Target tracks are driving me crazy.

Jul 6, 2011 12:51 PM

I’ve been a professional editor for over 12 years and have used many different NLEs from Edius to Avid. I just switched from FCP7 after 7 years to Premiere Pro CS5.5. The Adobe team has made some great changes in Premiere Pro CS5.5 from previous versions. I have things in Premiere that I wish I had in Final Cut Pro, and the performance with the Nvidia cards is OUT OF THIS WORLD!! Great job! Keep up the good work.

 

That being said there are a few things I would love to see fixed as well, most I can work around for now but the biggest thing that is driving me crazy is how the target tracks work in Premiere Pro when doing an insert or overwrite edit. In FCP I only had to move my source video and audio selection boxes next to the tracks that I wanted to overwrite or insert to and perform the edit. It worked great and was quick.  In Premiere you have the source track selection boxes as well and since you move the source track patching to what ever target track you need to insert or overwrite to, and you can turn your source tracks on or off to either enable or disable material from going to the target tracks in the timeline, needing to then also turn the target track on or off is another step that is really just an extra unnecessary step and really slows things down. The target tracks should just be needed for dissolves and lift or extract, extend edits, those types of operations. Even though I miss how quick and straight forward it was in FCP to just highlight the clip or clips you wanted to affect in in the timeline when doing dissolves and extends and things like that but for now I can get buy using the target tracks for these functions.  I would try to work around this by keeping all my target tracks selected but since having other target tracks selected in the timeline when you perform an overwrite edit will overwrite a blank space into the clips on those tracks, that won’t work. I’ve never seen another NLE work this way and it’s driving me crazy.

 

If this is a function that someone finds useful, then would it be possible to have a preference setting on how you would like premiere to treat overwrite edits when you have multiple target tracks selected so that it doesn’t put holes in them or better yet a preference setting to allow you to select whether you want the target tracks to have any effect on overwrite or insert edits?  I would love to see these issues fixed to increase the efficiency of editing in premiere. Again, adobe has done a great job!! Keep up the good work and Thank you!!

1795 Views   20 Replies   Latest reply: Dax Roggio, Jan 31, 2012 12:10 PM
 
Replies
  • Colin Brougham
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    1. Colin Brougham,
    Jul 6, 2011 12:57 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    Yeah, this came to a surprise to most of us who used Premiere Pro for awhile before this feature was introduced (CS4, if I'm remembering correctly). It's really annoying and frustrating, and it's going to drive FCP switchers like you bonkers. Eventually, you kind of get used to it, but that's not a real fix. I've never heard a convincing argument as to why we actually needed this; I have a feeling it was an effort to look like Avid Media Composer, but it's just implemented too bizarrely to be useful.

     

    I'd suggest you file a feature request with your points outlined: Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form

     
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  • Averdahl
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    2. Averdahl,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:05 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    I agree with you, Shawn4G!

     

    As a keyboard driven editor this is a nightmare. The source track indicators + targeted tracks is a not-so-good solution. I urge you to file a Feature Request regarding this. Use the link Colin gave you.

     

    /Roger

     
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  • Colin Brougham
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    3. Colin Brougham,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:11 PM   in reply to Averdahl
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    As a keyboard driven editor this is a nightmare.

     

    True, 'dat! We used to be able to target tracks with the keyboard and everything! My mouse got lonely...

     
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  • Shawn4G
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    4. Shawn4G,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:11 PM   in reply to Colin Brougham
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    Colin,

    Thanks for your reply.  I used Avid for years and I agree that it is very reminiscent of Avid's interface.  FCP's way of patching source tracks to target tracks is a much faster way of working than Avids.  I hope this is something adobe will fix in future updates.   I also put in a feature request for it but I'm a little worried since like you said its been that way since CS4 and has not changed. I own CS3 and I believe it was that way in that version too actually, though I have to double check.

     

    Thanks again.

     
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  • Colin Brougham
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    5. Colin Brougham,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:18 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    I also put in a feature request for it but I'm a little worried since like you said its been that way since CS4 and has not changed.

     

    Fear not: Adobe giveth, and Adobe taketh away. Sometimes it's even for the better!

     

    Seriously though, I think with the coming hordes, this is an important enough functionality that the rising tide of voices clamoring for a change will influence Adobe to revisit this part of the interface. Like Roger said, I was always a keyboard editor (10 years on Avid, myself), and CS4 (I'm pretty sure it was then, but I can't remember back that far!) effectively broke me. I had to become more of a mouse editor, and I've been a little sore about it since. I'll file another complaint... I mean, feature request, myself.

     

    By the way, a quick shortcut to enable or disable the track selectors is to hold down the Shift key and click one of the selectors. That works for both the video and audio target track selectors, as well as other track features like visibility, locks, and sync locks. Might ease the pain a lil' bit...

     
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  • Shawn4G
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    6. Shawn4G,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:28 PM   in reply to Colin Brougham
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    I'm a keyboard driven editor also, mouse(actually wacom tablet) in one hand and JKL keys in the other.  That shortcut definitely helps!  Thank you all very much!

     
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  • Colin Brougham
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    7. Colin Brougham,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:33 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    You're welcome! I should mention that there are also keyboard shortcuts that you can assign (they're not, by default) to turn on and off both source and target track selectors; that might be even better.

     

    selectors.png

     

    (I don't think there are enough keys to assign them all--and I know my brain wouldn't remember them anyway )

     
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  • Shawn4G
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    8. Shawn4G,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:37 PM   in reply to Colin Brougham
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    Lol! Yeah, I hear ya!

     

    Thanks so much!

     
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  • shooternz
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    9. shooternz,
    Jul 6, 2011 1:41 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    I have custom set up 1,2,3,4,5,6 as Keyboard short cuts to toggle video track targets.

     

    Shift 1,Shift 2...etc  for the  Audio Tracks.

     

    Track targeting is pretty much second nature for me now.  Wasnt so to begin with back in CS4 though!

     

    I have never bothered to even try and understand the SYNCH Lock Feature.  Have no idea what its purpose is and never felt I had the need for it anyway

     

     

    BTW: Worth noting and getting used to is the Drag and Drop from the Source Monitor to the Program Monitor.  Introduced in CS5.5.  I find this very useful on occasion in combination with track targeting of course..

     
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  • Stan Jones
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    10. Stan Jones,
    Jul 6, 2011 8:15 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    I'm a little worried since like you said its been that way since CS4 and has not changed. I own CS3 and I believe it was that way in that version too actually, though I have to double check.

     

    The big change was CS4. Don't give up!

     
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  • Averdahl
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    11. Averdahl,
    Jul 7, 2011 4:35 AM   in reply to Colin Brougham
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    I use some of the shortcuts, but the most annoying thing is that it is impossible to move the Source Track Indicators from lets say V1 to V2. This interrupts my workflow several times per day. (Feature Request already filed to Adobe)

     

    /Roger

     
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  • Schmutzik
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    12. Schmutzik,
    Jul 10, 2011 12:48 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    I'm an FCP editor thinking of going over to Premiere. I've just downloaded the 30 day demo and I'm having a vexing problem that is even more basic than this.

     

    I cannot assign an audio target track at all. If I overwrite from the Source monitor into the timeline, no audio comes with it. If I drag a video w. audio track from the Source monitor into the timeline, Premiere creates a new audio track for me (Audio 5, in stereo like my file) and targets it by default. All I can do is turn that target on and off, but I can't turn on any of the others in the timeline or drag audio into any of the others. Subsequent overwrite edits result in no audio at all into the newly created target track. Video can be dragged to any track. None of the tracks are locked. In a word, screwy. Is this a bug in the demo or am I missing something? Thank you.

     
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  • Shawn4G
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    13. Shawn4G,
    Jul 10, 2011 1:20 PM   in reply to Schmutzik
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    Hi Schmutzik,

    Yes, this is a little different than we're used to from final cut pro, but fortunately there are setting to make it work more like we're used to.. the problem your having has to do with the way adobe deals with audio channels... we are used to everything having a separate mono channel basically in final cut... adobe works by putting Stereo pairs together on timeline in a stereo track... rather than how we are used to with a stereo pair going to two mono channels automatically panned to the left and right on the timeline... I much prefer the way final cut does it... but here is what you can do to get things working more like we are used to.... first... make sure you have not put any clips on the timeline you have... delete the timeline you're working on now.... go to the drop down menu under  premiere pro then preferences then select audio in there you'll see a box called audio channels inside that it'll say default track format... switch it from use file to mono....   note that any of the clips you have in a sequence in the project on a "stereo track" in the timeline won't change the audio on them from stereo to mono... that's why I said to make sure you delete the any sequences you have already been messing with that have clips on them.

    audio prefrences.png

     

     

     

    that tells adobe to treat all channels on your source clips as separate mono channels.... now.. you need to switch.. your sequence settings to work accordingly also...  so hit command +n to get a new sequence.. select the preset that is closest to the format you're going to be editing then click the tab at the top that says tracks.... in here under audio you want to add mono tracks... I set the number of stereo tracks to 0 but you can keep some if you want... you can save this setting as preset by click the save preset button at the bottom.... then click oksequence settings.png

     

     

     

     

    Hope this helps....

     

    Shawn

     
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  • Bill Hunt
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    14. Bill Hunt,
    Jul 10, 2011 1:53 PM   in reply to Schmutzik
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    Welcome to the forum.

     

    This ARTICLE, and especially the link to Todd's tutorial on Channel Count in PrPro (at the bottom) should prove useful.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Schmutzik
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    15. Schmutzik,
    Jul 10, 2011 1:55 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    Shawn, thanks for your reply. This does not, however, seem to change anything regarding this problem. I reset everything and began a new sequence as you suggested. Still, none of the Audio tracks can be assigned, and even stranger, none will even accept an audio file from video except for the newly created stereo track it makes when adding the clip to the sequence.Even when I unlink the video from the audio, I cannot move the audio between tracks. But when I bring in a straight recorded audio file, I can move it freely between audio tracks, and it splits the stereo track into mono tracks as expected. Odd, to say the least.

     
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  • Schmutzik
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    16. Schmutzik,
    Jul 10, 2011 2:10 PM   in reply to Schmutzik
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    Bill and Shawn, thanks for weighing in, this is helpful, thank you. And I see now that Premiere only lets you assign tracks based on what you have in the Source monitor, instead of being able to do it at anytime, as in FCP (7, that is). Cheers.

     
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  • Bill Hunt
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    17. Bill Hunt,
    Jul 10, 2011 2:41 PM   in reply to Schmutzik
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    Not ever having used FCP, I cannot address how it handles the Audio Tracks and channel-count of a Source File, but if one does not have what PrPro requires, it will instantly create what is needed. The only thing that I could imagine, would be that the editor might see a new Audio Track, with proper channel-count appear, but down the stacking order of the existing Audio Tracks, from where they might like it to be.

     

    Gathering up and arranging one's Audio Tracks is not the easiest, or most intuitive, in PrPro, as there is no click+drag on an Audio Track, to arrange them, like in some DAW programs. Not sure if FCP allows for this. I have filed Feature Requests for that click+drag, but have not seen it appear. Maybe with more Feature Request, it will arrive.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Schmutzik
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    18. Schmutzik,
    Jul 10, 2011 4:21 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt
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    One doesn't drag whole tracks in FCP either (which would be nice), but you can drag (or select via a keyboard shortcut) your source connection buttons to any track regardless of what's in the Viewer (Source window), so if you want to keep laying audio into a certain track for whatever reason, you can. FCP will also create new tracks (mono or stereo) as needed just by dragging audio to where there isn't a track already there. I also like that FCP provides a tabbed window in the Viewer that shows the audio properties of the clip without it being in the timeline, not sure yet how to do this in Premiere. You can also bring up a mixer for the tracks in the timeline (Sequence in FCP) in addition to this. I'm sure Premiere has other kinds of flexibility FCP doesn't, this is just my first day in this land, so much to learn/unlearn and it's hard not to compare ;~)  Thank you.

     
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  • Jim Simon
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    19. Jim Simon,
    Jul 10, 2011 4:59 PM   in reply to Schmutzik
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    FCP will also create new tracks (mono or stereo) as needed just by dragging audio to where there isn't a track already there.

     

    PP does the same.

     

    shows the audio properties of the clip without it being in the timeline

     

    There are metadata columns to the right of the clip's name.  Those property columns can be added if not already there.

     

    You can also bring up a mixer for the tracks in the timeline

     

    The Mixer pane shares the same panel with the Source Monitor by default.  You'll see the tap up top of that panel.

     
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  • Dax Roggio
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    20. Dax Roggio,
    Jan 31, 2012 12:10 PM   in reply to Shawn4G
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    I very much agree with Shawn4G's original post.  I recently posted a long list of gripes as a Mac user coming from FCP and neglected to mention this one.  It was a definite oversite.  This separate source/target track paradigm adds extra steps to the most common editing functions, while only being of benefit in a few instances that could be better handled in other ways.  The custom keyboard shortcuts are helpful, but I agree that Adobe should revisit this system.

     
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