What I don't quite understand is how the workspace profile and monitor profile affect each other.
Don't feel bad, it's a big chunk of info to get your head around, but know this: Once the lightbulb goes on, and you do the inevitable face palm, then it actually is pretty straightforward. The real trouble is in getting to that point.
Color-management is nothing more than transforming the document RGB color values into device RGB color values, so the color is displayed exactly as intended.
Once you reach this fundamental level of understanding, then all the "rules of thumb" or things that people say start to make sense. Several things that Grant said above are "rules of thumb" that imply a tremendous amount of context, and I think perhaps that was what was frustrating Dag.
Noel Carboni wrote:
Several things that Grant said above are "rules of thumb" that imply a tremendous amount of context, and I think perhaps that was what was frustrating Dag.
It was indeed.
There is no need to make this any more complicated than it is. As you say, the basic concepts are all very simple and straightforward, and with those in place you can tackle the special cases. But Grant was putting the cart before the horse, or whatever the saying is.
i wasnt trying to make it complicated... what i am trying to get across is: that the OP mustn't believe that just because it looks ok its going to print ok... I change my profile all the time to suit various printing needs.... and you need to know what u doing... how to calibrate the device profile, and set up and sync the workspace colour profile and output. Its not a question of "ok looks fine now, send to printer"... as noel said... rules of thumb" that imply a tremendous amount of context... and prob too much for here... reading books etc will help... colour etc was a massive part in varsity.
Grant H wrote:
the OP mustn't believe that just because it looks ok its going to print ok...
I've been working long enough in print design to know that is not the case Grant. And I know sRGB can turn out more saturated as well.
Turns out this particular problem had a completely different explanation. The trouble was not with the monitor profile itself either, and certainly not with the workspace color profile setup.
Part of the problem came from layered PSD files it seems. The biggest problem was, as I was starting to suspect, caused by working on two monitors simultaneously. Obviously the two monitors had two different calibration profiles. In any case opening a file on one screen and dragging it to the other caused the inconsistency. Apparently InDesign in particular couldn't deal with that. Simply closing the file and reopening it directly on the Dell monitor reestablished the color consistency.
Why this happens I have no idea.
Of course it's a completely different matter if my monitor is well enough calibrated to reflect what it will look like in print, but that's not for this discussion.
I don't know about InDesign, but I can tell you with certainty that Photoshop will use the color profile of whatever monitor an image is moved to, without closing and reopening. In OpenGL Normal and Advanced modes, it will even transform colors properly in an image that's displayed across multiple monitors simultaneously.
Try it with Photoshop as well. If it behaves the same way there's something strange going on. I've never heard of this before.
That the OS can fail to load the correct profile for each screen is not new, but that it corrects itself when reopening the application is.
Anyway, glad you found the explanation. The most frustrating thing is to stumble in the dark.
Thanks everyone for the advice!
I'll check if the problem affects PS as well on monday, but I think it might only be related to how ID handles a placed image.
If you look at post no. 5 in this thread the JPG in PS is consistent with the PDF, while ID is not. The example in the original post was a layered PSD so that seems to be why the PDF is so different from PS – something probably happened in the process of flattening the image. (In the example in post 7 I was messing around a bit with my workspace color setup, so that example should probably be disregarded.)
Not that I can see the connection at a glance, but it looks strangely similar to this:
Not sure if it's related to the problem you linked to there Dag. I haven't noticed any sudden psychedelic color alterations. My files are certainly not corrupted in any way by this problem.
There is however definitely something weird going on.
In PS the JPG from the examples above looks normal on both my monitors. If, however, I place it so it is displayed across both monitors simultaneously it gets wildly saturated as long as the majority of the image is shown on the Dell monitor (which is my main display), but looks normal if the majority of the image is shown on the Macbook Pro monitor (my secondary display).
The PDF appeared oversaturated at first when I opened the file earlier today, but suddenly it returned to normal, with no good explanation for why it would change.
I'm still puzzled, but at least I'm aware that I have to pay attention to whether the colors look "normal"...