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blixxy
Currently Being Moderated

HDR merge not working in CIB lesson 5

Feb 21, 2012 2:35 PM

Tags: #photoshop_cs5

Hello,

I've seen a few posts on this but no answers... in PS CS5 CIB Lesson 5, the HDR merge command isn't working properly with the images provided on the CD. Following the HDR merging directions in the book on page 139 and 140, the images are coming out very dark and saturated. Does anyone have any idea why this would be happening, and how to make it work properly?

Thanks!

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2012 2:44 PM   in reply to blixxy

    I am not familiar with this lesson, but from what you describe, perhaps the images are being assigned an incorrect color profile.  Go into PS / Edit / Color Settings… and enable the three warnings about mismatched or missing profiles at the lower portion of the Color Management Policies area of Color Settings.  Then report back if you get any sort of warning when you do the merge.

     

     

     

    Otherwise, the initial result from an HDR merge probably has values outside the monitor’s capability to display and a HDR Toning function needs to be performed.  Presumably the lesson walks you through all of that, but without being familiar with the details of the lesson or where you’re seeing the unexpected image, it’s hard to guess.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,974 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    Feb 21, 2012 2:50 PM   in reply to blixxy

    No disrespect to Adobe, but the first line of that lesson should read, Install Photomatix, and never try to use Photoshop for HDR.  Least ways, not on versions CS5 or older.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,974 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    Feb 21, 2012 2:55 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    I feel like I should probably qualify that statement.  If you are working from TIF files created from RAW files, then definitely use ACR to create the RAW files, but every other part of the process works MUCH better with Photomatix.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2012 3:03 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    The HDR part is ok in CS5, isn’t it?  The problem is the toning, where Photomatix has much better control, or does PM actually do the combining parts better, to?

     

     

     

    I’d probably start with RAW files and skip the conversion to TIF other than in Photoshop’s memory.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,974 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    Feb 21, 2012 3:14 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    That's a good point.  CS5 does tend to get better highlight detail than Photomatix, but produces nasty magenta tints.  I mentioned it here before, but I have discussed this with Klaus Herrmann and suggested ways that an HDR meged with photoshop might be used to coax more detail from the more accurate colour wise, Photomatix merge.  I have never tried this, because it seems far too much trouble, but I wondered if the CS5 merge, or one channel from it, might be used in a high pass sharpen process, or even as a masking aid if you are into the radical post production that Klaus goes in for.  Check out his making of videos to see what I mean.

     

    http://farbspiel-photo.com/learn/hdr-making-of

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 21, 2012 6:20 PM   in reply to blixxy

    If your talking about the same images as in this post, then in my view there is something wrong with those three dng files.

    To me they look like the same exact file and someone just changed the exposure in acr and then saved the three dng files.

    Further more the files are cropped in acr.

     

    Anyway i just don't see what benefit those files are to learning hdr.

     

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4212387#4212387

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 3:27 PM   in reply to blixxy

    I had the same problem in CS5.1 with the 64bit. I used the 32bit version and it worked so the problem affects the 64bit HDR not the 32bit.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 7, 2012 11:50 AM   in reply to blixxy

    It's not you.

     

    We have two relatively new Adobe Macbook Pros with OS X Lion (6 months or so old). We also have Photoshop CS5 on each (within Adobe Creative Suite 5.5).

     

    I completed the entire Classroom in a Book (CIB) book for Photoshop CS5.

     

    When I went through Lesson 5, I had absolutely no problem with performing their exercise with the "model" and merging the three .dng files. All of their settings worked perfectly, and I was able to complete the lesson without incident. This was maybe two or three months ago.

     

    Today my wife was going through the same lesson, and no matter how many times she tried to follow the lesson book...reading word for word...she got the same result as you, which had the model in merge to HDR "coming out very dark and saturated".

     

    So, we went to my Macbook Pro, where it had worked perfectly in the past when I completed the lesson months ago. However, this time and in every attempt I made, the HDR image was "coming out very dark and saturated" as well. 

     

    What worked perfectly a couple of months ago, now it is not working.

     

    So, today it does not work, and we get the same result as you, on either of our Macbook Pros and that is two people following the exact same lesson.

     

    CONCLUSIONS:

     

    • It is not you (or us).
    • Might Photoshop have a bug? I believe I did an update between when it worked months ago and today change something? Why did it work 2-3 months ago? Might a default setting have been changed in Preferences during an update that causes the CIB Lesson 5 model Merge to HDR exercise not work? The merging these three images at three different exposures was not rendering an image anything close to any of the individual exposures. All attempts resulted in "dark and saturated"... and no adjustment of any kind improved the image to look anything like it should have.
    • Is it the DNG files used in the CIB Photoshop CS5 book CD? The CIB Classroom in Book Lesson 5 for Photoshop CS5 uses these specific ".dng files". I have not tried using other raw files, or even .jpgs in this Photoshop HDR feature. That would be a good test. I have used Photomatix in the past, and like those above, that is what I will use if I get more involved in HDR, but would be nice to have the Photoshop HDR feature to be one I would hopefully be able to use in the future.

     

    If I try the Merge to HDR in Photoshop feature again using another file format, other than .dng files I will post the result.

     

    With this said, we both have loved the CIB Photoshop CS5 book. I may have had a couple other minor issues on where to find something or had to reboot (ie. "text on a path" or 3D) to get the lesson to work.  The book lessons and video lessons were still worth every penny.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 6:17 AM   in reply to blixxy

    I am doing the same study. Mine did the exact same thing. PS CS6 version 13.0. I then updated to 13.0.1 and it worked ONCE. I went through the lesson to do it again and it was back to the same problem. I thought it might be something with my computer or a path to data or something else. I was going to deactivate the product this weekend and try it on another computer, but maybe there is an answer frothcoming. Since I madeit through lesson 5 for now, I am going to wait.

     

    Win 7 64bit

    CS6 extended 64bit

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 1:42 PM   in reply to garetoo

    I am in CHAT with technical support right now, did anyone receive an answer or a fix and just not post to here?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 5:04 PM   in reply to garetoo

    After a couple of hours and their actually taking over my computer they found PS was not recognizing my graphics card. So, I had to end the help session, download the latest drivers, and then Photoshopp did recognioze the card and allowed me to mess with the settings (grayed out before). I was excited! Then I tried it with the HDR and three models.....still not working.

     

    I  finally got back with a tech, they want me to TALK to ATI and tell them ADOBE is confident that the ATI AMD RADEON 5700 driver is the problem. Naturally, support at AMD was now closed, so I will have to try and call Monday.

     

    If it is the card and/or driver, why would it work one time! It makes no sense, I think I am at "it is thier fault, no it is thier fault...." etc.

     

    HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 5:09 PM   in reply to garetoo

    If it is the card and/or driver, why would it work one time! It makes no sense, I think I am at "it is thier fault, no it is thier fault...." etc.

    This is a common refrain. "It worked before, but not today. Why?"

     

    One possibility is a simple OS update, or hot-fix, that can render a video driver obsolete. That is one reason that AMD and nVidia offer updated drivers about once per month.

     

    Not all programs interface all that closely with the video drivers. However, some, like CAD, heavy-duty 3D, Adobe Premiere Pro and in recent versions, PS, do. Though your wordprocessor shows no ill effects, PS (and those mentioned above) will not function properly.

     

    What is the most recent ATI/AMD driver for your card and your OS? Did you download and install that driver, and it did no better? Note: do not trust your OS, or any utility, to tell you if you have the latest. Go to the source - the mfgr's. Web site and check.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 5:45 PM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Hi Bill,

    How about this? Screwing around it worked once more , wish I knoew what I did, because then it stopped (once more really was once). Then, just to see, I switched to 32 bit, it has worked a few times in a row. I am going to do it a couple of more times and take the ball back into Adobe's court. With respect to your questions:

     

    1)  What is the most recent ATI/AMD driver for your card and your OS? Both automatically update, but the AMD one is not right away. I went to the site and downloaded the 140 meg update an dinstalled it, this got Photoshop to recognize the card and driver, it was not before. Win 7 is up to date, no updates available.

     

    2) Did you download and install that driver, and it did no better? It made no difference. I wish I had tested PS in 32 bit mode first, becasue I do not knwo if it would or would not have worked. I just did it again in 32 bit, ran perfect.

     

    So, it appears to be a 64 bit issue (for me anyway), which I can certainly live with. I do not know if this has anything to do with those using MACS and stating they have the same problem.

     

    I appreciate you have responded.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 6:07 PM   in reply to garetoo

    WOW, There was one option not available in 32 bit mode under Edit_Preferences_Performance ADVANCED SETTINGS, the "Use OpenCL was greyed out. So, I went ack to 64 bit mode, deselected it and it worked two times in a row. I am trying it one more time. AWESOME!! It worked again. SO, what is OpenCL for?

     

    IT WORKS   IT WORKS!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 6:13 PM   in reply to garetoo

    If you check my post in the middle of the posts, I could have saved you some time. OpenCL is for open computing and appears to be used by Nvida, so if you have an ATI card that might explain it. Just so happens that I also have and ATI card. I finished the lesson in 32bit, every other lesson worked with 64bit.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,534 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 6:20 PM   in reply to wrathsworld

    ATI supports OpenCL just as well as nVidia.

     

    Whether OpenCL has any bearing on the Merge to HDR Pro feature is anyone's guess.  One of the Adobe people will have to chime in to say.

     

    I vote for it being a coincidence.  You may see the problem occur again.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 6:25 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Maybe, but 64 bit has now worked several times in a row, I am very happy with that. I have no idea what any of that stuff is for, I am just learning, I bought this through the student soiftware store, that;s why I came in here to ask about it. You all know a ton more.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 7:12 PM   in reply to wrathsworld

    "If you check my post in the middle of the posts, I could have saved you some time. OpenCL is for open computing and appears to be used by Nvida, so if you have an ATI card that might explain it. Just so happens that I also have and ATI card. I finished the lesson in 32bit, every other lesson worked with 64bit."

     

    Hi Wrathworld,

    I sorta stpped going through as it did not appear there was a solution. I will go back and select it as "helpful", I am sorry I missed it as well. I did find, at least for me, that deselecting that one box made 64-bit functional.

    gare

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 7, 2012 7:16 PM   in reply to garetoo

    That’s okay, I figured most of us are just trying to get that lesson done, not spend days trying figure out why photoshop won’t work or getting the runaround from adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 9, 2012 12:40 PM   in reply to blixxy

    I teach digital photography and Photoshop, and was immediately puzzled that the book used portrait exposures as an example of candidates for HDR merging, because people tend to be more difficult subjects when it comes to HDR. Why? Because HDR merging requires several photographs of the subject taken at different exposures to work—some photographers use as many as 10 or 15 shots--and people will generally have some degree of movement between shots, which is why HDR merging is generally better suited to non-moving subjects such as still-life and landscape.

     

    How did the book team get three identical portraits of the model at different exposures? Evidently they didn’t, at least if I’m reading the Metadata panel correctly in Bridge, because all three photos have precisely the same “Date Created” time—12/4/2009@3:39:19PM--and exactly the same exposure settings. The 3 model images seem to be copies of a single image that were manipulated to simulate different exposures. Since the original data on RAW, CRN or DNG (Digital Negative) files can’t be changed, I’m guessing that whatever was done to these files to simulate different exposures is the reason they aren't working properly when I try to merge them using the "Merge to HDR Pro" command. All my students had precisely the same problem--a really ugly,  contrasty, oversaturated HDR Merge result--on the Macs in our school's computer lab. So, I think the problem is with the book files.


    While HDR can be done with people, it generally requires higher end equipment and posing:  a camera with an extremely high frame rate that can be programmed to shoot a wide bracket of exposures (which could still be problematic if the camera is set on aperture priority to maintain depth of field, as the camera would have to vary the exposure using shutter speed) ; a full frame image sensor is also helpful for higher ISO settings and shutter speeds with less noise in low light; also poses that may be reasonably maintained for a second or longer.


    Here’s a link to the gallery section of HDRsoft, the company that makes  Photomatix (a far better HDR app than Photoshop’s HDR Pro), and some beautiful and extremely exciting examples of special effects HDR portraiture:

    http://www.hdrsoft.com/gallery/gallery.php?id=41&gid=0

    (You'll notice, however, that this cool gallery is the exception; the vast majority of other HDR galleries on the site feature landscapes and still-life photographs.)

    Hope this helps.

    Jeff Combs

     
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