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Future of Flash Builder

Dec 20, 2011 11:09 AM

  Latest reply: David Lance, Apr 20, 2012 1:22 PM
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    Mar 5, 2012 12:22 PM   in reply to pauland

    Nonsense Pauland - It is a financial decision/risk made by Adobe execs - the bottom line - how much they can get from us for less effort - Not the philosophy of coding standards - that is the realm of some of the guys that actually develops the platform with passion. They simply have it wrong and all this investment will now go down the tube (I have used Macromedia Director from 1993 up till as late as 2005) - The platform that could have been.... I had to wait 9 years for flash to play catch up on some core- functionality director had in the 90's (decent desktop runtime, local database, 3d, multiuser, etc.. etc...) - We are sad because when a technology with so much potential and so much time and expertise used to make it finally great, get's killed of by greedy short-sighted financial execs who has no clue what it takes to write piece of code or create an interactive work. HTML 5??? The problem with a big co. like adobe is that the decision makers' insentives are directly linked to short-term financial gain for shareholders. An exec that works 5 years for Adobe wants his christmass bonus and does not give a dot about the 10 year vision of a platform. - yes sure - html5 and code-view only flex -> if you want buggy support for years to come and simply just a little more beautifull skinned forms-based interfaces - I waited so long for flash to have alpha channel support on video - Something I had in Director in the 90's - and now I'm back with HTML5, and this lackluster excuses of "we are actually thinking of you - the salt of the earth developers when we stop developing state of the art interactive platforms"

     

    I'll choose a dev. tool with decent real-time feedback over a glorified notepad clone anyday.

     
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    Mar 5, 2012 12:37 PM   in reply to jacograaff

    There must be some reason why many of us ignored the design view in FB and much the same in DW. Only recently had DW upped it's game with "live view" making a design preview worthwhile, yet still editing HTML and stylesheets rules.

     

    If you enjoyed design view, then great.

     

    No point in railing against Adobe about it now. We've all grown up with our favourite development/design tools consigned to the bin - it's not just Adobe.

     

    In case you misunderstand this, I'm not defending Adobe, but I do understand it. I was as furious as anyone else when they took a change of direction and massively mishandled communicating their plans for Flex and Flash. Totally inept.

     

    As developers we need to move on and work with what we have not go on about what we won't be getting.

     
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    Calculating status...
    Mar 5, 2012 12:43 PM   in reply to daslicht

    For those people who do want a design view, you might like to know that we'll soon be anniouncing an extended design view (more not less! ) for Flash and Flex in the next version of Amethyst for Visual Studio. Watch our blog for details: http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Blog

     

    Huw

     
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    Mar 5, 2012 1:51 PM   in reply to SapphireSteel

    SAPPHIRE STEEL - since I do love the speed and stability of visual studio I will defenitely look into your product. I have looked at it previously - about 2 years ago - but as far as I can remember it did not keep up to date with flex-framework developments - some components were not available soon enough after a new release of flex-framework - and so I stuck it out with flashbuilder for a project I did back then. But I will follow your dev. very closely - because I do dev. on win platform and Visual Studio is a stable fast IDE...

     

    PAULAND - thanks for being so gracious, The main reason I would not have a splitview running in FB while coding is because of the lag, slowness, etc.. of the designview - because of that - yes - it can be a hinderence - but sometimes I will overlook it - Again - Microsofts Blend was done exceptionally well - the way I can just click right into the core basic primitives that makes up a button - No flash, catalyst, illustrator, etc.. bypass - I can just get right to that rectangle that defines the gradient of a button and dynamically link the 3 rgba colors of the gradient to a cascading stylesheet - e.g. buttonHighlightCol, buttDarkCol , etc.. create a stylesheet resource out of it and link the gradient - and then re-use it all over for consistancy - have realtime wysiwyg feedback - {myBackGradient}

     

    beautifull synergy between wysiwyg and coding from the guys that brought us DHTML in the first place - So hoped our beloved flex/FB would copy that (Defraga, and then we do have some if it since ability to create rects etc.. in code - but not to the extend MSoft allows us)

     

    Anyway  - Yes we shoudl "just get on with it" - but as a paying customer that invests years in understanding a platform, sell it to customers, influence the purchase thereoff - even if my loyalty takes effort to shift - I have a strong message for Adobe: A very strong message -

     

    You are dissapointing us and we will take our money and loyalty somewhere else

     
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    Mar 6, 2012 8:45 PM   in reply to daslicht

    The problem here is: the most of people who uses Flex says: "i dont use the Design View, so its OK for me. I just used in the beginning..."

    Ok, so remove the Design View, and whats going to happen? new guys who is deciding wich framework to use, will look at Flex and will see no advantage. Theyll choose another one with a visual framework as Sencha or any other one. So, Flash will not invest on the browser anymore... and that will reduce a lot of Flex and Flash programers. But then you take of the visual enviroment, witch is the way most of people start using Flex as development tool... (when get advanced uses more code mode - exept who is designer/coder like me and other guys here) and you will have finally the death of the greatest software in the internet history. Yeah, Adobe is killing the best software internet had since today. It was better to sell it back to Macromedia! Hey man... i take a look at Amethist and i didnt see it as an Design View... its an advanced code view, isnt it? ill take a look more clearly this week. Is it an plugin for flex?

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 3:05 AM   in reply to karkara+

    Yu asked about the Amethyst design view. Amethst does full drag-and-drop design for Flex 3 or Flex 4. You drag-and-drop controls, double-click and code the auto-generated event-handlers (just like C#). Here's a short  example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLXLJhdUbYw Currently we only support drag-and-drop for Flex or AIR. In future we will provide similar features for stadard Flash projects (currently Amethyst suppprts coding and debugging for Flash and ActionScript but Design view is restricted to Flex and AIR). This video gives you a more complete overview of Amethyst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtlphFmY-HY

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 4:00 AM   in reply to SapphireSteel

    Is it a fair comment to say that the Sapphire Design View only supports a subset of the layout options available within the Flex Framework?

     

    I'm guessing there's no support in the design view for states and constraint based layouts, for example?

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 4:31 AM   in reply to pauland

    It supports states. In fact, the Design View is a Flex application (written in Flex, rendered in Flash then integreted with Visual Studio) which is why it provides such an accurate rendering of Flex designs. You can download a 60 day trial so the best way to put it through its paces is to give it a go.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 6:46 AM   in reply to SapphireSteel

    I guess I know the answer....  Amethyst project and FB project are not compatible?

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 7:03 AM   in reply to Zolotoj

    Amethyst has quite a sophisticated project importer/converter that allows you to migrate Flash Builder or Flash IDE (CS5 etc.) projects into Amethyst. You can even work simultaneously on the same projects with Flash Builder or the Flash IDE (importing/converting does not alter your original code base or Flash Builder/IDE projects). Indeed, a number of our customers have told us that they share projects with other team members using a mix of Amethyst and Adobe IDEs. We have a few videos that demo sharing code with Flash CS5 and the same can be done with Flash Builder.

     

    See:

     

    http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Tutorials/Amethyst-Tutorials/Converting-a nd-Importing-Flex

     

    and...

     

    http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Tutorials/Amethyst-Tutorials/article/amet hyst-tutorials-index

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 1:49 PM   in reply to karkara+

    > Adobe is killing the best software internet had since today. It was better to sell it back to Macromedia!

     

    Macromedia no longer exists. It was bought by Adobe years ago.

     

    Adobe made a strategic business decision to refocus the Flash Player on gaming and premium video. A Flash Builder that compiles ActionScript is considered relevant to that market, but MXML isn't, and the Flex framework isn't, and Design View isn't. I'm sure these were not easy decisions for the executives who made them, but they're paid to do what they think will position the company for long-term success.

     

    Gordon Smith, Adobe

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 3:36 PM   in reply to GordonSmith

    @GordonSmith,

     

    I agree. Looking at the coming 3.2 AIR release is clear where Adobe is putting its steak. Is Adobe planning to release a framework for game developers? With the raising of iOS and Android as game platforms that would be great. Adobe also seems looking at the TV environment as platform to embed AIR. They are planning challenge with MS XBOX and Sony Play Station? This is not a joke, the same game working on mobile devices, desktops (and browsers) and TV! Really great!

     

    On the other hand, I see that Adobe can throw the Design View to trash without problems. Regarding the MXML and Flex framework.... sure they are not relevant to the market but they are still very useful stuff for gaming developers. Many times, game applications require user input data, registration and things which can easily done by using libraries like MXML and packaged with the game. Sure that Adobe will care (from the distance) Flex/MXML works on AIR. Of course, Adobe does not need a big collection of coolest controls, but a minimum subset (likely current) yes.

     

    Pablo.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 3:58 PM   in reply to pbeltranl

    I forgot to say working as AIR product manager is the most exciting job at the past, present and coming years.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 10:59 PM   in reply to pbeltranl

    > Is Adobe planning to release a framework for game developers?

     

    I don't think we have current plans to do this. There seem to be a number of game frameworks already in use and developers are used to choosing whichever they like or whichever meets their needs.

     

    > They are planning challenge with MS XBOX and Sony Play Station?

     

    Adobe sees Flash Player becoming "The Console of the Web", delivering high-performance, high-quality 2D and 3D games through the browser on desktops and through AIR on mobile devices. The Alchemy compiler compiles C++ code to ActionScript that runs at near-native speeds in Flash Player, so we can deliver even C++ games.

     

    - Gordon Smith, Adobe

     
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    Apr 12, 2012 9:11 AM   in reply to SapphireSteel

    What about us Mac Developers, is there such a thing as a third party designer for Macs?

     

    I can't see creating some complicated UIs with out design mode, It reminds me of doing an interface back in the dos erra.

     

    Rich

     
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    Apr 20, 2012 4:18 AM   in reply to GordonSmith

    only thing i used in FB is profiler. if you are not concentrate on flex with FB. please move profiler to Apache.

     
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    Apr 20, 2012 1:22 PM   in reply to daslicht

    It's my understanding that IntelliJ will be picking up the slack on design view.

     
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