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gracelightnerphotography
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LR4 - Book Module - No custom sizes?  Auto layout only works on odd pages?  Bug reports.  Thoughts.

Mar 7, 2012 10:31 AM

Tags: #preferences #book #lightroom_4 #autolayout #lr4 #book_module #auto_layout

I am a Professional Portrait & Wedding Photographer & figured it may be helpful to others & Adobe to share some questions & thoughts.

 

I just ordered LR4 yesterday 3/7 as soon as I saw it was released =)  I am having the software shipped to me but in the meantime I downloaded the trial version of LR4 which I started messing with today.  BTW is the trial version the same as the full version but only active for 30 days?  Or are some of it's features limited?

 

I had a few questions about the Book module.  Some of these I think are bugs.

 

  • Is there a way to enter in custom sizes?  I only see see there is an option for 5 sizes and cannot find another option.
  • I tested out the auto layout feature.  It does auto layout but only on the odd pages, the even pages are left blank.  Cannot find a way to adjust this.  (Update, I do like the blank page feature, it give extra breathing room to change the layouts & for me it is easier to delete a page than to add.)
  • When adding favorite layouts I cannot add page spreads to my favorites.
  • When I press tab to get rid of the side windows, I cannot scroll further down into the book.
  • The left & right arrow navigation buttons do not work right in the main screen.

 

Initial Thoughts:

(after only playing with it for an hour)

 

It would be nice to have more control over preferences in the Book Module such as custom sizes especially.  As it is, it feels unusually restrictive.  That said I am very excited about the possibilities this can lead to.  As of now I would still definitely do the final layout in PS, but my hope is that I would do the initial rough layout design using this new Book module.  It looks like it would save a lot of time & be much easier than doing that step in PS.

 

Specs:

Windows Vista 64

Lightroom 4 Trial Version

 

     Any, answers would be most helpful!  Thanks!

 

Grace Lightner

Grace Lightner Photography

http://www.gracelightnerphotography.com/blog

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 11:01 AM   in reply to gracelightnerphotography

    I had a few questions about the Book module.  Some of these I think are bugs.

     

    • Is there a way to enter in custom sizes?  I only see see there is an option for 5 sizes and cannot find another option.
    • I tested out the auto layout feature.  It does auto layout but only on the odd pages, the even pages are left blank.  Cannot find a way to adjust this.
    • When adding favorite layouts I cannot add page spreads to my favorites.
    • When I press tab to get rid of the side windows, I cannot scroll further down into the book.
    • The left & right arrow navigation buttons do not work right in the main screen.

     

     

    First things first, I'm by no means an expert on the book module. Yes, I have used it for some time, but many apsects of the module are way too obscure for my liking. Actually, you've identifed some aspects that left me scratching my head for months, not just hours or days.

     

    1. Custom sizes isn't directly supported at present, but my understanding is that users will be able to create their own layout/templates using Adobe Illustrator. I can't say when this facility will be available though.
    2. To modify a layout (left/right pages, etc) you need to open the Auto Layout Preset Editor. You do this by choose Edit Auto Layout Preset editor form the Preset drop-down menu (directly under the the Auto Layout panel header)
    3. I've noticed this myslef but can't recall if it's bug or a design limition.
    4. Not seeing this problem, it works fine on Mac OS X. Try clicking on the scroll bar to make it active, this might help.
    5. Again, not seeing this probelm, both right and left buttons in main content window do move from page to page.

     

    It's also worth noting, in case you haven't discovered it yet, that Book Preferences is located under the Book menu. This is where you define what metadata is used to auto fill the text boxes (e.g. title or caption).

     

    I expect that one or more of the other pre release testers who spent more time than me in this module will probably be able to fill in the gaps.

     

    Edit: I forgot to include the screen shot of the Auto Layout Prset Editor

     

    auto-layout-preset-editor.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 1:56 PM   in reply to gracelightnerphotography

    So they did not change one jota from beta-version...

    All our feedback in vain?

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4206837#4206837

    and many others:

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4206837#4206837

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4201775#4201775

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4223536#4223536

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4174468#4174468

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4190675#4190675

     

    What a lost opportunity here!

    I just hope it won't take until LR5 before it will be addressed.

     

    Cornelia

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 4:38 PM   in reply to Ian Lyons

    Ian Lyons wrote:

     


    1. Custom sizes isn't directly supported at present, but my understanding is that users will be able to create their own layout/templates using Adobe Illustrator. I can't say when this facility will be available though.

    So only blurb books are supported with LR4 at the moment? I don't understand why we can't simply enter the books dimensions (width, length, spine, bleed, etc.) and create custom layouts...

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 4:53 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Cornelia,

    There was never any promise of extra features, and none of the Public Beta's have followed any kind of predictable pattern. This was a really short beta, but there were hundreds of bugs in that period of time as well as a lot of work done refining PV2012 for example. Personally I'm disappointed we didn't see any additions to Slidehow to feature the new video additions.

     

    Shamo42, I interviewed Kevin Tieskoetter about this.. http://www.pixiq.com/article/kevin-tieskoetter

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 5:38 PM   in reply to Ian Lyons

    Ian Lyons wrote:

     

    1. Custom sizes isn't directly supported at present, but my understanding is that users will be able to create their own layout/templates using Adobe Illustrator. I can't say when this facility will be available though.

     

    That's too bad ... I don't own Illustrator, nor am I about to go out and buy it just so I can create custom pages. This, as far as I am concerned may be a complete deal breaker as far as me investing monetarily in Lr 4. Why would Adobe choose such a convoluted method for "custom" page sizes? It just doesn't make sense. Over two years ago Aperture three offered the ability to create books. All I have to do to create a custom size is to enter the page sizes and margin parameters ... and I can have my book the way I want it ... I can even export it as pdf OR jpeg ...

     

    Add to that ... A 3 has had the ability to handle DSLR video files ... and include them in slideshows ... not to mention a kick a$$ custom features for the slideshow that make the Lr Slideshow module look like a real dog ... Apple did this TWO YEARS AGO!

     

    I have been a loyal Adobe user since the very first Lr beta ... I have not considered  moving to Aperture 3 as a single solution ... until now ... frankly I am tired of jumping through hoops to get the job done ... If A3 would add the ability to use of custom camera profiles ... I wouldn't be here long enough to finish this sentence.

     

    I am so tired of jumping back and forth between both programs to get my work done. I can't believe Adobe wants to add another hoop to jump through just so I can work directly with my RAW files to design a book/album ... didn't the team or their supervisors discuss this with actual photographers who would make use of the Book module during the planning phase? It seriously sounds like the whole book module project was an after thought just to say they offered it.

     

    I really do like the Develop module, and I sincerely appreciate the efforts of the ACR team offering the improved image quality ... but here is the sad truth ... there are more than few top drawer pros doing quite nicely using Aperture and other options ... and they don't appear to be suffering from the effort ... so the image quality in ACR/Lr may be excellent … but it ain't all that ...

     

    Please don't confuse my concerns/rant as an ultimatum ... because it isn't ... it is, however, an observation that the ball is in Adobe's court ... their next move will influence my decision if I should continue down the Lr path ...

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 5:54 PM   in reply to Butch_M

    If you read the interview, Kevin talks about Scribus, a free app that'll be able do make the templates.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 6:33 PM   in reply to Seán McCormack

    Sean ... I seriously do not want to come off as disrepectful ... but that is still a solution outside of Lightroom ... I am still quite baffled how Apple was able to offer such a feature that all I have to do is input my sizes when beginning a book/album ... and a software on the scale of Adobe who has developed PageMaker, InDesign and so many others ... couldn't have developed a better and more complete offering than what the Book module currently is.

     

    I was intrigued that Kevin and his team "went to a book store" to see how the "pros" were making books ... Wasn't he at all aware that for every photo book offered at Barnes & Noble, Amazon.com, etc. ... there are probably thousands of books/albums created by wedding and portrait photographers ... who also happen to be professionals by the way ... and I guarantee you that VERY few of those level of books and albums were printed by Blurb (I will say it again so there is no doubt ... I have no ill will for Blurb or their products ... I may very likely have them print a few books as display samples of my work for in the studio ... however, they just don't offer what I need for weddings, etc. nor are they very likely to do so.)

     

    This comment by Kevin show even more evidence that Kevin did not do his research very well by ignoring a distinct portion of the Lr user base:

     

    "Yes, we are open to working with other publishers. In the short term, for any publishers who accept PDF files, they can create templates in their own sizes and publish them for Lightroom customers to use. Those customers can then upload the PDFs directly to the publisher's site. In the longer term, we're still evaluating exporting directly to more publishers."

     

    If it were up to me, I'd love it if all the labs/printers I use would accept pdf files ... is Kevin aware that most labs and printers that offer custom flush mount and specialty press printed wedding albums DO NOT ACCEPT pdf files? They will only accept jpeg files. Not my choice ... but I have to deal with it so I can get the products my customers choose to purchase ... not what I think they should buy.

     

    I custom designed well over 200 books in 2011 ... Aperture 3 didn't make me jump through any hoops to get the custom sizes I needed ... It just baffles me why Adobe would think that the Book module as it exists is a reasonable solution for a great many users. It seriously looks like a half-baked quick-fix to stop users from requesting the feature ...

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 6:59 PM   in reply to Butch_M

    Butch, you're not, I appreciate that it's born out of frustration. I think part of the issue is there's no way to add graphics and decent text via templates created with Custom Package for example. I always thought that Book would be an extension of Custom Package. It was nearly there with it. If the solution is easy to use, and your suppliers make use of, then it can be a winning situation. I know that won't help with flush mount albums, but definitely useful for photostory albums.

     

    So, if Book could export JPEG's, would that help? If so, pages or spreads?

     

     

    In terms of what Blurb has to offer, the Proline Pearl Photo paper is similar to texture Epson Premium Lustre. The paper is 190gsm. Album makers doing coffee table (CMYK) books are probably 300gsm, and twice the price. You could definitely do portrait albums with Blurb. But like you say, it's what the customer wants.

     

    As for templates, the padding control makes them more versatile, but the individual paddings are hidden by a disclosure triangle, which is wrong in my opinion.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 7:32 PM   in reply to Seán McCormack

    Seán McCormack wrote:

     

    So, if Book could export JPEG's, would that help? If so, pages or spreads?

     

    Both actually. I use seven diferent sources for various products ... some of the providers I use want single page files, others want two page spreads.

     

    I started out designing my books in InDesign ... Which ID is really more than is needed for a wedding album ... it's akin to driving a brand new Lamborghini to the corner market to pick ip a quart of milk ... you look good doing it ... but was it the most efficient vehicle for the task at hand ...

     

    Unfortunately, ID can't relate to RAW files, so If I decided to re-process an image for a particular design scheme, I had to go back to Lr, make the adjustments, export the image ... again ... then return to ID, update the file on the page ... sometimes you need to do that a few dozen times in a 40 page wedding album ... that's a lot of work ... I was so hopeful that the Book module would eliminate that hassle, just as each iteration of Lr has streamlined my workflow in the past ... but this feature, currently, isn't even halfway reasonable ... I mean what's there is pretty awesome ... but for my needs it is the proverial one-trick-pony that failed to show up for the party ...

     

    Over half of all the books I do are flush mount wedding albums ... another sizeable portion is mostly specialty press printed options that offer hinged pages that lay flat and have nearly zero gutter for twp-page spreads that look awesome in the finished product ... many of the labs/printers I use also offer very custom styles of cover options ... that's probably 80% of my needs ... all of which Blurb can't even come close to ...

     

    As competitive as the wedding/portrait business is ... you have to offer products that separate you from your competition ... offering Blurb products is something anyone can do ... even though it may sound snobish or elitist ... I don't want my products to be ordinary.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 11:27 PM   in reply to Butch_M

    The book module is such a weak mee-too trial, disgracing for Adobe.

     

    It offers nothing which an export of images to an album design software of your lab cannot do better.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 3:50 AM   in reply to Seán McCormack

    Seán McCormack wrote:


    Shamo42, I interviewed Kevin Tieskoetter about this.. http://www.pixiq.com/article/kevin-tieskoetter

    So for every  book that isn't from blurb, I would need to manually create all the layout templates for the specific size? Wouldn't that take hours and make the whole book module obsolete?

     

    Where are the instructions to create templates?

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 5:43 AM   in reply to shamo42

    shamo42

     

    1) If you wanted a really custom size and templates, then yes. I've a feeling that most vendors that accept PDF will be making their own anyway, so more common sizes (e.g. A4, iPad) will become available from them.

     

    2) You'd only need to do it once for many books, and see 1)

     

    3) They're not out yet, neither is the SDK either for plugin makers.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 5:44 AM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Actually Cornelia, even if you don't like it, it does offer the ability to redevelop files in the book without having to re export, reimport into the software and then re layout with the updated file.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 6:30 AM   in reply to Butch_M

    Butch,

    Yeah, I was looking at a variety of coffee table books at Focus On Imaging this week. The hinged lay flat versions do look great.

     

    I've checked with the supplier and they only accept designs via their ROES, I'm sure it's the same for other suppliers too.

     

    All we can do right now is put in requests for JPEG export for 4.1 and hope.

     

    Sean

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 9:21 AM   in reply to gracelightnerphotography

    Grace, I am referring to editing the files once laid out in Book.

    And no I'm not an Adobe employee. Perhaps you need to read more of my posts where I talk about the things that I'm not happy about. e.g nothing done in slideshow, no custom panels for web developers, the change of preview in web is a step down for Mac users, rotating a crop moves the centre of the crop if it wasn't dead centre, adding colour to a logo page gets ignored if you toggle the logo page. etc. And I report bugs regularly. There's no rose coloured glasses here.

     

    I had an 'OMG' moment the first time I used book about how restrictive it was. But as I played with it actually wasn't as bad as I thought, but it's certainly not intuitive.

     

    You've also overlooked the other apps you can make templates in, especially the free one.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 10:04 AM   in reply to Seán McCormack

    That is the part I do like.

     

    But obviously I need to repeat:

    We have 2 workflow-breaking ways to deal with books, none of which fulfills the request to reuse metadata:

     

    1. The new one via book module.

    If you do not like the layouts sufficiently, you have to go back to another program and redo the layout, import it again into LR-book-module, continue.

    Go back and forth for fine-tuning layouts. You still have to go back to develop module if you want tweaks there, then directly to book module.

     

    Nothing was mentioned about the cost - even if Scribus is free, we need to invest time to learn.

     

    2. The current way.

    Where my best practice is: set up a publish service to hard drive to get jpgs linked to their raw originals. Publish the images to disk and use them with the proprietary software of your current book printing agencies, making use of all their flexibility and layout freedom they offer.

    Go back to develop module if you want different development, re-publish, continue in the agency's software.

     

    Why do you think 1. should be superior to 2.?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 10:28 AM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    And here, for contrast, suggested mode #3, in true Lightroom style which we all appreciate so much:

     

    Strengthen the print module by allowing fields which can be mapped to the metadata fields. (Limit to fields of standard catalog, if need be, disregard any potential plugin-added fields.)

    Give flexibility to define free-text fields. Give all text fields the text formatting functionality of book module.

    Let those print templates be exported from the print template pane to book module as layout page, where it will auto-inherit (reference) all properties including paper size and be available as non-changeable layout like today in book module.

     

    Fine-tune later in some .x-version with borders around cells, mirroring functionality for left&right pages, full text editor, rotatability of cells.

     

    Adobe would satisfy all people who want to get more functionality from the print module, because they print themselves or want to export jpgs.

    Plus cover all requested flexibility in book module for a really unbroken workflow.

     

    I am sure we would swallow much beta-itis for such a straight-forward concept.

    If you agree to this you might help to create this tsunami of photographer's feedback and add your vote:

     

    I have created a feature request to get rid of such convoluted illustrator-detour:

    http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom4_empow er_the_print_module_to_create_custom_templates_for_book_module

    http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr4_request_for_ book_module-4vlfu

     

    This should truly empower the print module with handover ot the book module and give us the freedom to make use of any metadata field content we have in our LR catalog.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 10:20 AM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Hi Cornelia,

    I think you're missing the point slightly. When you make the template pages in the other app (yes, a PITA to learn a new program like Illustrator-what's an Artboard?), it's done and dusted. Those layouts can be used for any amount of books in the future. The padding control offers a lot of freedom in tweaking existing layouts too. Like I said to Grace, it looks painfully restrictive initially, but it's better than it first appears. While it's definitely not free and easy, it's definitely not useless. With the price drop and current style of book, it's definitely aimed more at consumers than pros making one off wedding albums.

     

    As for 1 vs 2, bearing in mind that the templates are 'make once, use often', the majority of the time is spent in one app, not jumping in and out of apps with 1. That is more optimal to me.

     

    I forsee book companies coming on quickly via PDF, or maybe directly ala Blurb in the future-let's face it, if a company can add revenue via the current mechanism, they will. That is where the customer benefits.

     

    It isn't about towing a party line. I said to Butch, it should've begun with an extension of Custom Package IMHO, and that would've helped. Even in Julieanne Kost's video on book, it shows her creating a layout in Custom Package, Printing to JPG, and then placing it in Book.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 10:26 AM   in reply to Seán McCormack

    It's okay Grace, there's been much worse said on forums than asking was I an employee! All I can ever do is relate from my experience, same as everyone else, and everyones opinion is vaild. I've made probably 10-15 books, and am moving all of them to Blurb, because the Proline Pearl paper is that beautiful. I'm repeating myself, but I did think Book was 'uh oh spaghettio' when I saw it first, but I did warm to it. Once I got my head around starting with Autolayout in a previously ordered collection, it made more sense.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 10:29 AM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    We crossed posts a little there Cornelia, but the list of requests is a good one. In fact I was putting together a JDI list... Add & Remove Spread, Cell borders, Print to Page, Print to Spread etc.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 10:53 AM   in reply to Seán McCormack

    Maybe I have a very different style in doing a book than you.

     

    Because I search for images which look well (readily cropped!), and which look well together. Then I move them around to twist and tweak their exact position. Same for text.

     

    I like to have a clean but nice passe-par-tout-like border around my images: usually a thin dark outer stroke and a somewhat bigger white-ish inner stroke, to separate my images from the background, which often consists of a semi-transparent other image.

    (The transparent background image works nicely in current book module).

    So cell padding will not help me with my borders.

     

    Pushing boxes around would be an easy thing to do in the print module and quick to hand over to book module.

     

    As you may imagine I would drop the functionality for Autolayout-filling for myself.

    I might reuse some good page layouts for a given paper size and image ratio. But creating them in bulk mode, apart from laying out a book, is not my creative style. With the print module my template library would grow along with pages created. As had been the case with proprietary software of book printing agencies.

     

    But as was said before: how many photographers had been interviewed about their book layouting habits and ideal workflows?

     

    How many photographers do prefer image cells that graphically relate to paper size, but break with the most common image ratios?

    But enabling those photographers to learn how to make their own layouts seems not to be a priority: the help files are still not published, so that I would know what exactly to learn in Scribus.

     
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    Mar 8, 2012 11:07 AM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Most of the books I've done contain DPS, 1 or 2 photos per page, some with text. Yes I'd prefer strokes on the image, and sometimes even drop shadows. Cell padding won't help the borders, but it will help place the image on the page-with the disclosure triangle open first of course to access individual side padding.

     

    As to the questions re interview, I've no idea; just here like you except long enough to get the badge.

     

    The template creation files will probably be part of the SDK, which isn't available yet-there's a lot of plugin developers waiting on it too.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 1:15 PM   in reply to Seán McCormack

    Seán McCormack wrote:

     

    Butch,

     

    All we can do right now is put in requests for JPEG export for 4.1 and hope.

     

    Sean

     

    That's all I and others have been doing for years now ... I've made several points about the necessity to export pages as jpegs (here and elsewhere) and not to be locked into a single vendor ... it's getting to the point where I don't think they actually consider the input ... it's as though they think they know better what our needs are and will do as they wish.

     

    My photography is my livelihood. It is how I earn an income to spend on software solutions to make those tasks easier in providing my customers the products for which they are willing to buy. Workarounds are not solutions ... they are just more work ...

     
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    Mar 13, 2012 10:32 AM   in reply to Butch_M

    I'm a hobbyist photographer and like my LR3.  I was going to upgrade to LR4 but won't for now because I'm disappointed that the Book Module will only allow output into PDF or directly to Blurb.

     

    I could wait for other companies to accept PDF files.  However in the interim, I don't have a reason to upgrade to LR4.  This also gives me an opportunity to check out aperture.  Who knows....maybe I'll switch. 

     

    I know Adobe could easily have allowed the Book Module to export into JPG.  Adobe's tactic of dumbing down the Book Module to drive people to use Blurb doesn't benefit the user (purchaser) and makes me question Adobe's intent.  This just makes it worse!

     
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    Mar 13, 2012 11:46 AM   in reply to richhbutler

    Can’t you export pages of a PDF to JPGs using Photoshop?

     
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    Mar 13, 2012 1:10 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    ssprengel wrote:

     

    Can’t you export pages of a PDF to JPGs using Photoshop?

     

    What part of ... "Workarounds are not solutions ... they are just more work ..." .... escapes you? Not to mention, if the page sizes are not correct for the book printer you wish to use, what good would it do to output the book in any format?

     

    Of course there are ways to take a PDF and convert the pages to jpeg ... but that'ts the whole point ... why should we accept more hoops to jump through in order to accomplish the task? Why should we be accepting of half-baked features? ... or of modules that have not been improved for at least two versions like Slideshow? ...

     

    I don't have to jump through hoops or use an external application to export a book to jpeg, or set up custome sizes in Aperture 3. I don't have to play around and stitch music or audio narration ... or insert video clips into a slideshows ... or be limited to only a single transition style for a slideshow in Aperture 3 ... that app had all those features ... and more ... two years ago!

     

    It's no wonder that Adobe drastically reduced the price ... it's because they never really put forth an effort to offer a complete product.

     
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    Mar 13, 2012 4:11 PM   in reply to richhbutler

    richhbutler wrote:

     

    I'm a hobbyist photographer and like my LR3.  I was going to upgrade to LR4 but won't for now because I'm disappointed that the Book Module will only allow output into PDF or directly to Blurb.

     

    Adobe's tactic of dumbing down the Book Module to drive people to use Blurb doesn't benefit the user (purchaser) and makes me question Adobe's intent.  This just makes it worse!

     

    I cancelled my LR4 order too. Mostly because of the disappointing book blurb module.

     
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